Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Vale of Thorns
    Gender
    Male

    Default [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I'm currently interested in taking the following concept and making a viable build out of it:

    A human who was raised by dwarves, with good Torag-worshiping values. He/she later discovers their mystical heritage (whatever that may be) and combines it with Torag-given powers to become the greatest forger of magic items in Golarion.

    Basically a multiclass Oracle (preferably of the Metal or Stone mysteries, as those are Torag's favorites) and Sorcerer (not sure of bloodline, but it's less of an issue since I'm not playing an actual dwarf so I don't have to limit myself to Empyreal due to the dwarven CHA penalty, still should represent Torag's focus on craftsmanship and solid stone and steel), eventually combining the two as a Mystic Theurge. In terms of curse, I'd probably go for Lame, both because it's pretty good in terms of benefits and because it makes a lot of mythic sense given Torag's tirelessness and the concept of a lame smith figure like Hephaestus or Weyland.

    I know that Mystic Theurges are generally considered less-than-useful due to the large amount of MAD that was inherent to it before the APG came out, introducing both the Oracle and the Empyreal Bloodline. I'm aware I'll probably not reach 9th level spells in either class, but that's less of a concern as we've got other casters in the party anyway.

    Any advice and/or build templates would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance! :)

    THE TEN-MINUTE BACKGROUND
    Based off of the Minimus RPG engine, copyright 2008 Ad Astra Games, used with permission. Minimus is donation-ware, if you like it, please contribute as per the instructions in the file.

    Grey Warden avatar courtesy of Dorian Soth. Many thanks!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    The MAD isn't the problem so much as the levels leading up to becoming a Mystic Theurge -- being a Wizard 3/Cleric 3 is far less powerful than being a Wizard 6 or Cleric 6. Add to that the potential lost spell levels, and it's tough to justify.

    That problem gets worse with Sorcs and Oracles. You need Sorc 4/Oracle 4 before your first level of MT. After ten levels of MT, you only get two more levels to play with. Put them both in one class and you finally, at level 20, get 8th-level spells. Put one in each and you're stuck with 7th forever.

    Also remember that MT advances spellcasting, but no other class features. So no additional bloodline spells or powers, no mystery spells or revelations after level 4 (and any scaling powers or revelations go up to 4 and stop). The Oracle curse has some built-in help, here, at least.

    All that said, spontaneous casters seem like a good fit for MTs. Combined Spells goes a long way (when you need that one spell cast seven times, you have some options to make that happen). You don't have to worry about spell acquisition (high-level scrolls cost money, after all).

    Still, be sure that you're okay with the drawbacks.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    With any theurge build versatile spellcaster is a prerequisite for life. Given the inherent trap which is a theurge, as a dm I would not even consider it cheese. Maybe if you tried to convince me that both classes should be able to cast 2nd level spells at your first class level I might have issues, but that would be it.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I'd go with stone over metal, I find metal to be very underwhelming.
    Bloodline wise I'd go Arcane just because it means your metamagic won't be useless.

    Quicken is a damn fine feat on that build because lets face it, you have the ability to Nova like crazy with that many castings per day.

    For your mystery ability I'd suggest the acid resist. The power says it advances at levels, it doesn't specify oracle levels for advancement so your dm might let it slip by heh

    Haunted is a fairly nonthreatening curse for someone who probably won't get to advance it.

    focus on conjuration for the better acid type spells and summoning for some extra cheap power (you only need to select the spell with 1 class to be able to cast if for both after all heh)

    Any idea if your DM is letting you get bloodline and mystery spells while advancing mt levles? You could get stuck with VERY limited spell lists if not.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Apr 2012

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Are there practiced spellcaster feats available? Don't expect your spells to crack SR or hold up to dispels if your entry is oracle4/sorc4.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ponyville
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Spuddles View Post
    Are there practiced spellcaster feats available? Don't expect your spells to crack SR or hold up to dispels if your entry is oracle4/sorc4.
    The best in PF-only is a one-time Trait for +2 caster level (max of Char level of course).
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2012-10-25 at 08:00 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    probably won't be an issue, I doubt he is going blaster, theurges make far better utility casters especially for a crafting character

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Vale of Thorns
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Correct. There's already a regular sorcerer in the party who'll make a fine blaster.

    So is going Cleric/Empyreal Bloodline any better? From what I'm hearing here, the very concept of this build is an unequivocally BAD IDEA.

    THE TEN-MINUTE BACKGROUND
    Based off of the Minimus RPG engine, copyright 2008 Ad Astra Games, used with permission. Minimus is donation-ware, if you like it, please contribute as per the instructions in the file.

    Grey Warden avatar courtesy of Dorian Soth. Many thanks!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    mm yes and no, cleric 3 sorc 4 means you can get in one level earlier but you are still a watered down caster. That being said if you are more worried about fun, oracle/sorc is amazingly fun, especially if your dm lets your existing bloodline and mystery powers continue to advance (which raw they only say they improve at said levels, they don't say they have to be class levels)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Vale of Thorns
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I'm honestly okay with being watered down, as there's two other casters planned: a sorcerer (I'm unsure which bloodline) and a Kapenia Dancer magus. Between the two of them I'll probably not be able to fire a spell off before they char and slice the enemy to pieces. It's more about the crafting with this character, and the roleplay.

    THE TEN-MINUTE BACKGROUND
    Based off of the Minimus RPG engine, copyright 2008 Ad Astra Games, used with permission. Minimus is donation-ware, if you like it, please contribute as per the instructions in the file.

    Grey Warden avatar courtesy of Dorian Soth. Many thanks!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I had a long reply typed then the internet ate it...

    fortunately I copied it first




    Idealy for a crafter support mage I'd still lean towards using wizard/cleric you get into mt at level 7 then, and neither class suffers from smaller spell lists.
    the down side is planning out your prepared spells. Take the trait that improves your cl for cross classing (dont remember the name) once for each class and you only lose 1 caster level to each, you get scribe scroll for free as well (this lets you claim any scrolls found you don't know with the promise that you can scribe any extra scrolls for the person who wants to claim it)

    splitting your spellcasting stat won't hurt all that much as long as you have the minimum for whatever spell level you think you will hit and you pretty much aren't worrying about dc's if you aren't an offensive caster

    this can also make you a SCAREY minionmancer, because you use BOTH your caster levels for your max control via raise dead (add 8 for undead master), AND you have a bit of channel energy for command undead, a large list of summoning spells, and access to planar binding and ally...

    throw in leadership and you can pull a zap branigan and send wave after wave of your own men after them

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    If you do go Oracle/Sorc, consider going with the Words of Power system. Spontaneous casters should get more out of that system than prepared casters, since the combination of words should greatly increase the effective number of spells available.

    And with a double-spontaneous Mystic Theurge, it should be double the fun and excitement!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Thats true but it becomes a much larger book keeping issue heh

    I prefer word casters for blasty sorcs cause you can get a good damage spell at every level

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    The core parts of your concept seem to be 1/ Doesn't start as an oracle but becomes one later, 2/ Crafter, 3/ Human.

    IMO you don't need Mystic Theurge for this. A level or two in a non- or semi-spellcasting class would fit your concept as well - perhaps Alchemist (mindchemist)? If you take 2 levels in that you can get Skill Focus (Spellcraft) in place of the 2nd level discovery. Your first level feats are Defiant Luck and Inexplicable Luck which can make you a top-notch crafter as soon as you get crafting feats. Missing the requisite spells is just a penalty of 5 to the DC and your bonuses should make up for not having the particular sorcerer/wizard spell you need.

    Edit - if possible get the magical knack (oracle) trait.
    Last edited by avr; 2012-10-26 at 03:35 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Note that being an oracle/sorceror won't actually help your crafting that much, unless you are specifically going to be crafting wands and such. Most items can be crafted rather easily without knowing the prerequisite spells by simply taking a penalty to the check, so being "the best crafter ever" is easier to do by simply pumping your Spellcraft check rather than knowing a ton of different low-level spells.

    I'll just echo everyone and say that this build is really suboptimal - even if you don't think you'll mind much, I almost guarantee that you'll be frustrated by not having access to third level spells before level 10(!). Emp. sorceror + cleric is a bit better, wiz/cleric is much better, though still not optimal (as others have said, the main problem of MT is delayed progression, MAD is rather easily circumvented (by not using spells that allow saves). )

    Wiz/cleric would have the added bonus of encouraging a high Int, which will boost your spellcraft check for crafting. To further fit your theme, you could make an Arcanarium Crafter wizard combined with a Forgemaster cleric (the latter is technically Dwarf-only, but it would be a thematic fit for someone rasied by dwarves too, so your GM might be persuaded), to get a free crafting feat and some crafting-themed powers to go with your focus.

    If you do go with Oracle/Sorceror, choose the most frontloaded mysteries/bloodlines you can find - since you won't ever get much more than 4 levels in either.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    My advice is don't. Not reaching 9s isn't the issue - the far bigger problem will be being stuck on 2nd-level spells when the other casters (and enemies) are throwing around 5ths.
    Sandharrow by Chris the Pontifex
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Vale of Thorns
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Corlindale View Post
    Note that being an oracle/sorceror won't actually help your crafting that much, unless you are specifically going to be crafting wands and such. Most items can be crafted rather easily without knowing the prerequisite spells by simply taking a penalty to the check, so being "the best crafter ever" is easier to do by simply pumping your Spellcraft check rather than knowing a ton of different low-level spells.

    I'll just echo everyone and say that this build is really suboptimal - even if you don't think you'll mind much, I almost guarantee that you'll be frustrated by not having access to third level spells before level 10(!). Emp. sorceror + cleric is a bit better, wiz/cleric is much better, though still not optimal (as others have said, the main problem of MT is delayed progression, MAD is rather easily circumvented (by not using spells that allow saves). )

    Wiz/cleric would have the added bonus of encouraging a high Int, which will boost your spellcraft check for crafting. To further fit your theme, you could make an Arcanarium Crafter wizard combined with a Forgemaster cleric (the latter is technically Dwarf-only, but it would be a thematic fit for someone rasied by dwarves too, so your GM might be persuaded), to get a free crafting feat and some crafting-themed powers to go with your focus.

    If you do go with Oracle/Sorceror, choose the most frontloaded mysteries/bloodlines you can find - since you won't ever get much more than 4 levels in either.
    Wait, you DON'T need to know the spells in order to craft the items? The whole point of this build was to have as diverse a spell-list as possible so I could basically craft any item in the book.

    THE TEN-MINUTE BACKGROUND
    Based off of the Minimus RPG engine, copyright 2008 Ad Astra Games, used with permission. Minimus is donation-ware, if you like it, please contribute as per the instructions in the file.

    Grey Warden avatar courtesy of Dorian Soth. Many thanks!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Wait, you DON'T need to know the spells in order to craft the items? The whole point of this build was to have as diverse a spell-list as possible so I could basically craft any item in the book.
    If so, you're better off going cleric/wizard -- clerics get access to all the spells in the cleric list, and wizards to any from their list that they come across (in scrolls, spellbooks, etc). With sorc/oracle, you're limited to a small list of "spells known".

    That said, to answer your other question, yes, you don't need to know the spells. From the Magic Item Creation rules:

    The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.
    That's the bit that means you don't need to know the spell. Some GMs will rule this differently, though, so your mileage may vary.

    Regardless, if total spells known is your goal, cleric/wizard (or cleric/witch, or even druid/witch) is far better than a pair of spontaneous casters with a limited spell list.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I'd say the trick is hour/level spells, quickened spells and swift spells to blow as many of your multitude of spells per day as possible. For your high level spells pick spells that are useful even at higher than normal level, such as web or haste.

    You might not need the +2 caster level talent, but compared to other talents it's pretty sweet. At minimum it's 2 more hours on your hour/level spells, plus other minor effects on all your spells. What else are you going to take? +1 to a save?

    Agreed that I wouldn't use spontaneous casters for crafting; you really need prepared casters for that. What's worse in PF is that spellcraft is int based not cha based. I don't think it takes a loose DM to wave the spell requirement for +5 DC though. In 3.5 you could just get another caster or magic item to provide the spell instead. It's something but it's not that big of a deal. +5 DC is also something, maybe worse.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-26 at 11:55 AM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    I don't think it takes a loose DM to wave the spell requirement for +5 DC though. In 3.5 you could just get another caster or magic item to provide the spell instead. It's something but it's not that big of a deal. +5 DC is also something, maybe worse.
    The whole passage clarifies further :
    "Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites."

    So for Craft Wondrous Items (the gold standard) or Rods or Rings, You would be better off just buying a nice + int item and keeping spellcraft maxed (My Sorc just crafted one for the Rogue and he borrows it for downtime crafting days). The DCs for item creation are rarely problematic, even for a cha caster. Wizards get bonus feats, which help, but most bloodlines have a crafting feat or 2 in their bonus feat list.

    Where the loose DM helps you is if you can convince him that a masterwork spellcraft item is reasonable. Go with "It is a textbook on arcane theory that helps me use spellcraft in any circumstance in which I can sit down and read the relevant notes..." Best 50 gp you will spend.
    Last edited by Gnaeus; 2012-10-26 at 12:17 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Coidzor's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ruined Racetrack
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    From what I'm hearing here, the very concept of this build is an unequivocally BAD IDEA.
    That was always my understanding of theurging in combination with spontaneous casters. :/

    As for the roleplay, I thought there was a way to fulfill that idea with oracle, sorcerer, or witch on their own just by the customization options.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Apr 2012

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    There's a 3rd party bloodline, divine, which gives you the spells of a domain. The blooline powers are pretty decent. One is a smite, which you can use with spells.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Where ever trouble brews
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I'm currently interested in taking the following concept and making a viable build out of it:

    A human who was raised by dwarves, with good Torag-worshiping values. He/she later discovers their mystical heritage (whatever that may be) and combines it with Torag-given powers to become the greatest forger of magic items in Golarion.

    Basically a multiclass Oracle (preferably of the Metal or Stone mysteries, as those are Torag's favorites) and Sorcerer (not sure of bloodline, but it's less of an issue since I'm not playing an actual dwarf so I don't have to limit myself to Empyreal due to the dwarven CHA penalty, still should represent Torag's focus on craftsmanship and solid stone and steel), eventually combining the two as a Mystic Theurge. In terms of curse, I'd probably go for Lame, both because it's pretty good in terms of benefits and because it makes a lot of mythic sense given Torag's tirelessness and the concept of a lame smith figure like Hephaestus or Weyland.

    I know that Mystic Theurges are generally considered less-than-useful due to the large amount of MAD that was inherent to it before the APG came out, introducing both the Oracle and the Empyreal Bloodline. I'm aware I'll probably not reach 9th level spells in either class, but that's less of a concern as we've got other casters in the party anyway.

    Any advice and/or build templates would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance! :)
    My recommendation. As I just recently went through this issue two weeks ago...

    Sorcerer. I recommend either Sage or Empyreal Archetype for this purpose.
    Take Razmiran Priest Archetype in addition (remember, you can take two Archetypes so long as they don't interfere, and I guarantee you that Razmiran won't interfere with Sage or Empyreal) to whatever Archetype and Bloodline you pick. Buy a bunch of Divine Spells on Scrolls. Yes, the Divine casting will effectively be 1 level behind that of the Arcane. Still, having 9th level Arcane and 8th Level Divine casting, with no real loss of anything critical, is pretty cool. And if you cast from Wisdom normally (Empyreal), the UMD check is pretty darned simple. Sage is good for the extra skill points, which also makes it easy enough to get a high enough UMD to work out.
    The best way to think about your Divine casting at this point, is that you learn by buying spells (scrolls), so your best bet is to pick up spells which aren't really affected by your caster level.

    At which point, the only stats you really need to be concerned with are Wisdom, and Con, with Int high enough for skill points, Dex high enough for saves and touch attacks, and Charisma 14 or 16 give you access to Bard and Paladin casting as well if you want them (you just need a scroll), and Strength high enough to carry all your scrolls.

    The downside is, no Oracle class features (mysteries, curses, revelations, etc). But if you want those instead, you are probably better off being a straight up Oracle.


    Last option, see if your DM will allow the Heighten Spell metamagic feat from 3.5, in order for you to qualify for Theurge earlier. I doubt your DM will do this, but worth asking.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The Vale of Thorns
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    There's also the issue that the Razmiran Priest archetype kind of requires you to, you know, worship Razmir.

    THE TEN-MINUTE BACKGROUND
    Based off of the Minimus RPG engine, copyright 2008 Ad Astra Games, used with permission. Minimus is donation-ware, if you like it, please contribute as per the instructions in the file.

    Grey Warden avatar courtesy of Dorian Soth. Many thanks!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    That was always my understanding of theurging in combination with spontaneous casters. :/
    It is reduced spell level on top of reduced spell level, but it's not all drawbacks. Spamming low level hour/levels and sometimes 10 min/levels is great for theurges, and spontaneous casters do that even better. Cha synergy adds even more spells per day. To further mitigate the drawback you use your "highest" (but still low) level slots on efficient spells like web/shield other, haste/prayer, solid fog/blessing of fervor (APG) and wall of force/communal air walk. These are still good even 5 levels late. If OTOH you want to toss effective fireballs and heals you'll be disappointed.

    That is to say, if you're going to theurge you might as well go all the way and spam like no other.

    The biggest problem I see is that until level 9 you actually have less spells per day and the versatility only goes so far. At exactly level 8 I suppose the level 2 spell versatility is ok, but before level 8 you better do something clever with the mystery and bloodline. Reminds me of a 3.5 benign transposition + travel domain cleric mystic theurge I had (swap places with grappled ally, boom I get freedom of movement). Otherwise it is very much a level 10+ build.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-26 at 03:53 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Reminds me of a 3.5 benign transposition + travel domain cleric mystic theurge I had (swap places with grappled ally, boom I get freedom of movement). Otherwise it is very much a level 10+ build.
    For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement.
    Unless they were grappled by a magical effect, that trick doesn't work. Learned that the hard way.
    Last edited by Gnaeus; 2012-10-26 at 04:00 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    I need to start reading a lot more carefully. And I wish 3.5 was more clear with rules wording. At least this one doesn't rely on a specific definition 50 pages away that you don't even realize you need to look up. But still, a major limitation that is an abnormal exception to something typical shouldn't be shortened to a single adjective.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-26 at 04:08 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    We all have to read at least as carefully as our DMs

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    These are still good even 5 levels late. If OTOH you want to toss effective fireballs and heals you'll be disappointed.
    I'll dispute this part, simply because the soracle can be an INSANE powerful healer. Spectral hand plus the ability to cast so many cure and heal spells it's ridiculous. Throw on a Life Mystery and Celestial bloodline and you have a back row buffing healer who can quicken for heal and buffing novas. It's the only time I've ever used combat healing as a viable option and you HAVE the spell slots available that you will still have castings left by the time the wizard/cleric/whoever finally needs to rest.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Oracle/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge Build Advice

    You can cast a lot of them but they aren't very strong. -40 hp on your heal is enough to overwhelm any quickened cure spell you might cast. Healing per round matters more than healing per day in combat. For between combat a wand of cure light wounds is better.

    But it is another reason to get the +2 caster level talent. Then with -20 hp on your heal you can at least quicken to keep up. Though a real cleric could temporarily quicken even more, until he ran out of slots. Still, while it's below par healing it's still a heal so it's a nice option to have as long as you have other options too. The other huge issue with heal is that you don't get it until level 16.

    Point is I'd do more efficient things than relying on hp related spells, which will be greatly behind. Many other spells remain useful almost forever.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-26 at 04:45 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •