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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    I can't even begin to describe how many times have I died to Pumpkins. And Thrustys. And Swarmys. And Diggle Commandos. Really, this game has a lot of high single type damage monsters to be even remotely fair for us "not really paying attention to health" guys
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Less "not paying attention to health" and more "I've one-shotted or counter-attacked to death every other Pumpkinn I've met in melee range, how the diggle does this guy dodge me thrice in a row with no counterattacks or dodges from me to speak of?"
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    Less "not paying attention to health" and more "I've one-shotted or counter-attacked to death every other Pumpkinn I've met in melee range, how the diggle does this guy dodge me thrice in a row with no counterattacks or dodges from me to speak of?"
    It's very much better than it was on release, but committing to a melee build in Dredmor is still putting the success of your run in the hands of the RNG- even if you make it to 100% block/dodge/counter and become largely invulnerable to melee monsters, it can take six to eight turns to actually score a full hit on an enemy on later dungeon floors, during which ranged/caster mobs can and will tear you apart instead.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    It's very much better than it was on release, but committing to a melee build in Dredmor is still putting the success of your run in the hands of the RNG- even if you make it to 100% block/dodge/counter and become largely invulnerable to melee monsters, it can take six to eight turns to actually score a full hit on an enemy on later dungeon floors, during which ranged/caster mobs can and will tear you apart instead.
    I just cannot get a handle on ranged/caster builds, though. They tend to die on floor one or two, whereas my best run got to floor seven (I think? With the witchies?) with the aforementioned Sir Blender Build.

    Plus: I'm That Nerd Wot Will Not Use Magic At All If The Opportunity Exists.

    Call me whacko, but I prefer the narrative of the guy who DOESN'T have physics-defying superpowers taking down the guys that DO.
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2012-11-13 at 09:25 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    So.
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    That is far too many buffs.


    So, I've killed Dredmor 3 times before, but that was on lower difficulties. Never fought him on Hard before, and never in a straight up fight.

    This time he eats 3 Bolts of Mass Destruction, and about a half-a-dozen Bolts of Squid. They hardly affect him. Holy Hand Grenades make a bigger dent in his HPs, which is a bit surprising, given how crap they are against most else.

    I swap out my Filigreed Silver Shield for A Mirror Darkly Shield. Magic Reflect tech against Dredmor. Then proceed to toss mechanical sawblades at him. Unlike the bolts, these make use of my tremendous Melee Power.

    Still, Dredmor does more damage. His lightning bolt takes off about half my HPs? That Hallowed Circle buff from the Demonology tree is REALLY helpful here.

    The result?
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    So anyways, I'm pretty proud of myself. But yeah, those sawblades finished him off. Still have never (successfully, you may note Vlad on that high score chart) engaged Dredmor in melee. Though I think I might have stood a chance with the protective circle. I kind of wanted to try Diggle Hell, but some of those caster Diggles actually hurt.

    Finished with all my skills maxed, except the last in Viking Wizardry, the last two in Necronomiconomics, and the Demonic half off Demonology.

    So ends the story of Immortal, the truest of the true, the most metal character I have ever played in Dungeons of Dredmor.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    BMDs are still pretty useless, IME, and Dredmor has a lot of resistances to the damage types Squidbolts do, so not a big surprise there (also, a lot of the reason Squidbolts decimate zoos is because it causes Corpse Explosions in the area - once something dies it encourages other things to die a lot faster. It's not as good against a single enemy... also, both Mass Destruction and Squidbolts trigger spell effects that scale by Magic Power, which means they're waaaay more dangerous in the hands of a mage- if you don't have much/any Magic Power, you only get the base values from them. Which doesn't do much but tickle Dredmor.)

    Edit: The Hand Grenade, on the other hand, is a thrown weapon. Which means, like the Clockwork Blades, it is doing your Melee Power as bonus damage on hit. It also does several instances of Radiant damage, which is the one damage type Dredmor does *not* have resistance to- once on hit, once with the big area explosion, and once more with a sub-spell cast by that big area explosion, so they're actually pretty good weapons for burning him down. Sawblades is better, tho- the 'spell' effect those trigger is pretty crazy, which is why they're worth such a silly amount of Zorkmids.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2012-11-13 at 10:13 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Sawblades are, indeed, quite simply, made of pure win and awesome (and possibly some Archdiggle blood).

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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Makes sense.

    It must have been a few patches ago and on normal, I remember Dredmor going down to two or three bolts of squid...


    But anyways I'm done. Done done done. For a good while. Dredmor is fun, but it is very slow, and most of the fun is from discovering things.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    So things I've learned about encrusting:

    1) If you try and encrust two on-hit effects (like say the worst idea ever*, and blood runes) the results conflict and the second overwrites the first.

    2) Tenticular doom inflicts no damage upon me.

    *This is of course, pretty much the best idea ever.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    So, it seems Smithing was patched to no longer give ridiculous returns on ingot-making? That... that sucks.

    It is now SO MUCH HARDER to dual-wield katanas by level 2. I've modified the Sir Blender build slightly to ditch Tinkering (Percepion let's me disarm traps now instead of just seeing them!) in favour of Assasination. Maybe more active skills will be helpful.
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2012-11-13 at 11:55 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos 51-50 View Post
    So, it seems Smithing was patched to no longer give ridiculous returns on ingot-making? That... that sucks.

    It is now SO MUCH HARDER to dual-wield katanas by level 2. I've modified the Sir Blender build slightly to ditch Tinkering (Percepion let's me disarm traps now instead of just seeing them!) in favour of Assasination. Maybe more active skills will be helpful.
    ..yeah, that one happened a long time ago. I mostly count on Perception to provide materials these days if I'm wanting a craft-centric build. Also, if you do want to disarm all the traps (and not just see them so you can avoid stepping on them), consider keeping Tinkering- it provides more Trap Affinity than any 3 other skills put together. (On the other hand, disarming traps isn't *that* important; if you don't have any other reason to have Tinkering, then the lesser trap skills will cover you for the early dungeon floors and on the later ones a warrior build will have enough HP/block/resist to face-tank most traps anyway.)

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    It's very much better than it was on release, but committing to a melee build in Dredmor is still putting the success of your run in the hands of the RNG- even if you make it to 100% block/dodge/counter and become largely invulnerable to melee monsters, it can take six to eight turns to actually score a full hit on an enemy on later dungeon floors, during which ranged/caster mobs can and will tear you apart instead.
    If you pump crit chance enough, that's supposed to help quite a bit, right?
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    BMDs are still pretty useless, IME, and Dredmor has a lot of resistances to the damage types Squidbolts do, so not a big surprise there (also, a lot of the reason Squidbolts decimate zoos is because it causes Corpse Explosions in the area - once something dies it encourages other things to die a lot faster. It's not as good against a single enemy... also, both Mass Destruction and Squidbolts trigger spell effects that scale by Magic Power, which means they're waaaay more dangerous in the hands of a mage- if you don't have much/any Magic Power, you only get the base values from them. Which doesn't do much but tickle Dredmor.)

    Edit: The Hand Grenade, on the other hand, is a thrown weapon. Which means, like the Clockwork Blades, it is doing your Melee Power as bonus damage on hit. It also does several instances of Radiant damage, which is the one damage type Dredmor does *not* have resistance to- once on hit, once with the big area explosion, and once more with a sub-spell cast by that big area explosion, so they're actually pretty good weapons for burning him down. Sawblades is better, tho- the 'spell' effect those trigger is pretty crazy, which is why they're worth such a silly amount of Zorkmids.
    Aetherial also :)

    Sawbalades getting nerfed next patch though :(

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    If you pump crit chance enough, that's supposed to help quite a bit, right?
    Some, but since they changed the order of primacy on melee attacks (in fairness, this was generally to the benefit of the player, since it made it possible to *be* melee in the lower levels without getting inevitably RNG-crushed) it doesn't guarantee anything- both Dodge and Counter beat Crits, which means you can still have several turns in a row where you don't get any closer to killing an enemy. Especially with high Rogue-value monster types like Mustaches and Ravens.

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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Some, but since they changed the order of primacy on melee attacks (in fairness, this was generally to the benefit of the player, since it made it possible to *be* melee in the lower levels without getting inevitably RNG-crushed) it doesn't guarantee anything- both Dodge and Counter beat Crits, which means you can still have several turns in a row where you don't get any closer to killing an enemy. Especially with high Rogue-value monster types like Mustaches and Ravens.
    Aaaah, alright. Most of my meta-info comes from the wiki, which is horribly outdated.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..yeah, that one happened a long time ago. I mostly count on Perception to provide materials these days if I'm wanting a craft-centric build. Also, if you do want to disarm all the traps (and not just see them so you can avoid stepping on them), consider keeping Tinkering- it provides more Trap Affinity than any 3 other skills put together. (On the other hand, disarming traps isn't *that* important; if you don't have any other reason to have Tinkering, then the lesser trap skills will cover you for the early dungeon floors and on the later ones a warrior build will have enough HP/block/resist to face-tank most traps anyway.)
    When I made this build (A long time ago) I only really included Tinkering in order to disarm all the traps before I could Knightly Leap around them (plus, a little bit of extra XP) since Smithing, Perception, and Burglary together didn't provide the disarming skill I desperately needed.
    I don't actually use the Tinkering recipes to DO anything (Though I may experiment later in trying to grab clockwork chain-axes or something), so I ditched in in favour of Assassination, which lets me proc debuffs/extra damage for hitting things.

    All this being said, I've never actually beaten Lord Dredmor, so I'm far from an expert.
    Last edited by Thanatos 51-50; 2012-11-14 at 12:52 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    I just scored my first Dredmor kill!

    *does the happy dance*

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    The build was Perception, Burglary, Smithing, Tinkering, Alchemy, Rogue Scientist, Magical Law and I put it together with the express purpose of ruining Dredmor's day.

    Magical Law is completely ridiculous with this build and just in general. Every skill is hugely powerful and having my Rogue Scientist and Burglary skills on effectively no cooldown was huge, as was having Silence on demand. Incidentally - screw Sawblades, Clockrowk Drill Bombs are were it's really at. The -resist they do stacks, and is conveniently of the same damage type as Vortex Upgrade. Dreddy didn't stand a chance.

    MVP goes to Polymorphic Injunction though. At 7 mana it's crazy-spammable and it's almost never resisted. Eldritch Slicks, Blobs of Corruption, Archdiggles... They all get turned into harmless things. So, so very strong.
    Last edited by SlyGuyMcFly; 2012-11-14 at 01:16 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly View Post
    I just scored my first Dredmor kill!

    *does the happy dance*

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    The build was Perception, Burglary, Smithing, Tinkering, Alchemy, Rogue Scientist, Magical Law and I put it together with the express purpose of ruining Dredmor's day.

    Magical Law is completely ridiculous with this build and just in general. Every skill is hugely powerful and having my Rogue Scientist and Burglary skills on effectively no cooldown was huge, as was having Silence on demand. Incidentally - screw Sawblades, Clockrowk Drill Bombs are were it's really at. The -resist they do stacks, and is conveniently of the same damage type as Vortex Upgrade. Dreddy didn't stand a chance.

    MVP goes to Polymorphic Injunction though. At 7 mana it's crazy-spammable and it's almost never resisted. Eldritch Slicks, Blobs of Corruption, Archdiggles... They all get turned into harmless things. So, so very strong.
    Congrats! I'm confused by how beating Dredmor nets you a lower score than not beating him , but well done on breaking what I think scores should be doing!
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookieetank View Post
    Congrats! I'm confused by how beating Dredmor nets you a lower score than not beating him , but well done on breaking what I think scores should be doing!
    Yeah, that confused me a tad too. Apparently, scores are mostly based off the character's total xp, so I guess von Zeppenbaum and Impact Jack just had higher levels that Ms Zeppenbaum when they died. von Zeppenbaum was an Archaeologist, which I think explains the bloated score relative to the other two, despite that particular run happening before Wizardlands.
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Or perhaps it is the fact that you're supposed to die a painful death in a roguelike, so that is rewarded with more points? ;)

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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by karpik777 View Post
    Or perhaps it is the fact that you're supposed to die a painful death in a roguelike, so that is rewarded with more points? ;)
    Ya know, this makes sense, in a twisted Dremor sort of way.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly View Post
    Yeah, that confused me a tad too. Apparently, scores are mostly based off the character's total xp, so I guess von Zeppenbaum and Impact Jack just had higher levels that Ms Zeppenbaum when they died. von Zeppenbaum was an Archaeologist, which I think explains the bloated score relative to the other two, despite that particular run happening before Wizardlands.
    I think its only based off xp. So if you want to go for score you should grind Hell, which will inevitably RNG you to death. Winning OTOH becomes fairly easy to do when you hit max skills.
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Maaan, I've never used sawblades. What spell? o.o
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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    Quote Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot View Post
    Maaan, I've never used sawblades. What spell? o.o
    The imaginatively named 'clockwork sawblade hit', which does an extra 12 Slashing and then casts Mechanical Evisceration. Mechanical Evisceration debuffs Burliness, Nimbleness, Block, Resist, and *hugely* debuffs Counter. It also Fleshruns the target (this is the DoT spell cast by Fleshbore and Clockwork Drill Bolts) and makes them start Bleeding. It then proceeds to cast Clockwork Sawblade Hit 2 and 3, which (assuming they are working correctly) hit for another 6 Slashing damage + Melee Power. As well as Bleed the target. So, in all, a full non-Resisted Sawblade hit: Applies your Melee Power 3 times, triggers several DoTs, severely reduces the enemy's ability to defend itself against further attacks, and takes off 25 health over and above all that (-1 Burl and 3 Health per Bleeding Out stack, stacks up to 3 times, plus the 2 Burl from Mechanical Evisceration at 2 HP/Burl point.)

    It's pretty crazy, although I don't know if it's all triggering correctly.

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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    I feel lost without the ability to take down traps... Trying an astrological alchemist, though, just for giggles and variety. Rogue sharpshooters always get me farthest, but I do want to try other archetypes.

    I tend for Rogue/Fighter mixes, and I throw in a gish every now and then (vampirism/Egyptology/Viking/all of the above make any weapon hit like a truck for the first few floors) but it's all about MOAR BUILDS.

    Seriously, the variety is insane. I also have the Essential Skills pack, which is dandy, and which I really ought to experiment with more.
    -\==/-
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    I like coming up with concepts for characters, and will do so often. But writing up crunch, especially for anything that isn't level 1, takes me a while, and after wasting lots of time writing unused characters on Mythweavers, I generally don't make a sheet unless a DM really likes the concept. Sorry.

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    Default Re: Dungeons of Dredmor

    That's what I love about Dredmor - there's just SO many builds to experiment with. I've played for 150+ hours and I still don't feel I've even come close to trying everything. And I have yet to experiment with skill mods to any real extent. This game is one of the most replayable things I've ever seen.

    I've had most succes with rogues and warriors too, though in principle I think I like mages the best. My mages just tend to die to stupidity a bit more often than the others

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