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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default [PF] Witch advices

    Hello playground,

    Planing to make a witch in a new evil campaign, will start level 5...

    Is there some advices or trics about the witch ?

    I know that sleep hex is a must ..

    thanks :)

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Evil Eye, Misfortune and Cackle are all also excellent. As is Retribution when you get there, really nice for making enemy golems beat themselves to death. Remember that Hexes as SUs ignore SR, most magic immunity, and do not provoke.

    Take spells that target fort saves, most of the hexes target will.

    Otherwise, general caster advice. Read any of the general wizard guides and 90% applies to witch. Item Crafting is good. Stomping action economy (Quickened spells, minions, etc) are good. Improved familiar for anything with hands that can speak, coupled with max ranks in UMD is great.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Witch's handbook is very thorough.

    The flying hex(don't remember the actual name) is very nice, as is(as you know) sleep hex.
    To anyone who thought Gandalf was dead: Don't you know, a wizard is never late?

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    The "must have" hexes are sleep (save or die), evil eye (-4 to all saves), misfortune (target must roll twice and take worst result on d20s), and the best hex of all, cackle (as a move action extend all hexes by 1 round).

    Remember you can cackle twice in a round.

    Pick up Split Hex at level 11 (or 10 if you can somehow manage it). It extends the range of all of your hexes and opens up for fun possibilities.

    If you use a scar on a small slow moving target, like a turtle, and then throw the turtle (or place it in the backpack of a front-line fighter) then split hex effectively increases your range by up to a mile, which is much further than the default 30 feet. If you're tired of feeding the turtle the put them into a temporal stasis. Fighting a big bad evil guy? Capture a minion, scar him, and then send him back to his master to send a message. Scry through the minion and when he's within 30 feet of the BBEG do your evil eye, misfortune, and depending on your level, forced reincarnation, dire prophecy, retribution, ice tomb, or whatever else would be fun, then keep cackling until the rest of the party can charge in and beat him up. Can also be done with messengers to generals for army conflicts. If minions are being uncooperative then you can have someone cast an enchantment spell to command them to be within 30 feet of the BBEG.

    The healing hexes are more useful in larger parties. If you're in a party of 5 then you're effectively getting 5 extra 1st level/2nd level spells a day. It's either amazing or lame, depending on the campaign circumstances.

    Everyone will recommend flight. Considering you can get extra hexes for a single feat it's much better than most feats. Frees up spell slots.

    For feats, improved initiative and toughness are always recommended for casters. Improved familiar is very useful because your familiar is your spellbook and losing that is a real bummer. Replacing your familiar with another that can fly, turn invisible, and Use Magic Device is generally a good idea and should probably be your feat at 7th level.

    The witch is a really strong single target debuffer with the right hexes. Pick spells that are multi-target to help balance out your build.


    Oh right, for a 5th level build I'll recommend this (I won't assume any races):

    Feat/Hex selection
    1st - Slumber, Extra Hex (Evil Eye)
    2nd - Misfortune
    3rd - Extra Hex (Cackle)
    4th - Flight
    5th - Accursed Hex or Improved Initiative

    Favored class bonus - HP

    Skills to have maxed out:
    Perception
    Spellcraft
    Knowledge: Arcana
    Fly
    Use Magic Device
    Last edited by Hylas; 2012-10-26 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Adding build

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Hylas View Post
    Everyone will recommend flight. Considering you can get extra hexes for a single feat it's much better than most feats. Frees up spell slots.
    I wouldn't regard it as that good. Certainly it is a decent choice (after Slumber, Cackle, Evil Eye and Misfortune), but hardly a must have. It is solid at level 5, because it is clearly better than a level 3 spell (since you can split it into component minutes), but it is somewhat sub-optimal by level 9, when overland flight gives you all-day mobility. If it were me, I would rather skip it and take Craft Wondrous Items at 3, which will continue to benefit you when you are level 20. Also, Witch is so strong you may be tempted to craft items for your teammates to help them keep up.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaeus View Post
    It is solid at level 5, because it is clearly better than a level 3 spell
    Ah, but it is ALSO a level 1 spell at will and a level 2 spell 1/day.

    And uh...
    Flight (Su): The witch grows lighter as she gains power, eventually gaining the ability to fly. At 1st level, the witch can use feather fall at will and gains a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks.
    ...You can... swim better?

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Right. Compare this with the ability to craft any wondrous item you can afford with what is generally a trivial check. How many spells can you duplicate with cheap wondrous items? And most of them are a lot more useful than levitate and feather fall.

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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Even with Overland Flight, the hex is superior speed so it is useful for tactical (ie, combat) applications, AND it is supernatural, so it cannot be dispelled, that's a selling point, IMO. Shame they nerfed the levitate to self-only, I really liked the hex as also providing a 1/day buff to a friend. Oh well.

    Slumber is excellent, and make sure you get Accursed Hex feat so you can re-try when they save. Misfortune I gave a mediocre grading to, but seeing a witch in practice now, the fact that is one of the few offensive weapons in the witch's arsenal that is NOT a mind-affecting will save, I've come to respect it a lot more. You do need to get cackle for it to be worth it, though.

    Evil Eye....I still don't like it that much. When you can toss around a save or die (Slumber) all day long, I just don't see the need for it in hte action economy, it's not like you're going to run out of spells and hexes and have nothing better to do. And it's mind-affecting! So, bleh.

    Your first major hex should be ice tomb, to add a nice fort save or lose to your arsenal on top of all the will ones.

    Now, if you want to get good at reflex save or lose as well, you should either take Elements patron or go Winter Witch (archetype AND prestige class), and combine your new blasting spells with the Dazing Spell feat. I call this setup the "Triple Threat."

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    Even with Overland Flight, the hex is superior speed so it is useful for tactical (ie, combat) applications, AND it is supernatural, so it cannot be dispelled, that's a selling point, IMO.
    But it takes a round to activate, since it is an SU that doesn't specifically say otherwise. I find that I would almost always rather have fly 40 than spend a round getting fly 60. And again, it is decent. It has applications. But I wouldn't burn a feat on extra hex so that I could take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    Evil Eye....I still don't like it that much. When you can toss around a save or die (Slumber) all day long, I just don't see the need for it in hte action economy, it's not like you're going to run out of spells and hexes and have nothing better to do. And it's mind-affecting! So, bleh.
    It is really all about what you are using it ON. The joy of evil eye is that it hits them even on a successful save, and then you can extend it with cackle. So if you have an enemy with a strong defenses, you can debuff their saves so that an allied caster can hit them with a successful save or lose, or their AC so that your fighter can kill them.

    And slumber is only a SoL/D in the right circumstances. If the Big Bad just has a goblin sitting next to him who can say "wake up Boss!" you didn't really do much.

    The reason that you want evil eye, misfortune, and slumber is that they are all situational. I would rank evil eye as the weakest of the three (in general, but if you have allies throwing around save-type-effects it can have great synergy), but I wouldn't give up any for flight.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Evil eye helps out other party members with save based abilities. However I agree that the action economy is the biggest problem with witch.

    But if a wizard teams up with a witch then you can do combos like evil eye + baleful polymorph in one round. Even a surprise round.

    Though I agree that misfortune is better overall.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Arbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Hylas View Post
    And uh...


    ...You can... swim better?
    Because you weigh the same as a duck, obviously.

    If your game lasts long enough to hit level 12, consider grabbing the Cook People Hex. You're _already_ evil, and it gives you access to a slew of nice buffs you otherwise will have trouble getting, AND it gives you something to do with the heaps of corpses you and your party will inevitably create. Just find out what the shelf-life is on the food you make with it...

    One thing my witch has big trouble with is Undead - they're immune to a laundry-list of bad conditions, mind-affecting powers and powers that require a fort save that don't affect objects, and that's easily 2/3rds of my best tricks right there. A few things that help are using healing hex (to hurt undead), my few damage spells, and summoned monsters.

    If you take Misfortune and Cackle, consider picking up Fortune as well - giving your allies 1 double-roll per round is a pretty nice boost, AND it works on yourself as well.

    If your GM is daft enough to let you take the Leadership Feat, think about getting a Hag cohort (Sea Hag's only CR 4), and a level 1 Witch follower who also has Coven. This would give you access to a whole slew of nice powers.
    Last edited by Arbane; 2012-10-27 at 12:23 PM.
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    Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    game planed to go from 1 to 20.
    This is a reroll from an oracle (stuck with the healing duty)

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hylas View Post
    And uh...

    ...You can... swim better?
    Because you weigh the same as a duck, obviously.

    You sir, just blew my mind AND made my day.
    Have a Internetz AND a cookie!

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    See if you can get your DM to allow you to play a half-orc witch using the scarred witch doctor archetype. I know it says it is for the orc race, but I was under the assumption that a half-orc ounted as an orc for everything. this gets you a witch that relies on constitution as your primary attribute. Plus it gives you a cool fetish mask instead of a familiar.

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Half-Orc can take Scarred Witch Doctor. There was an FAQ for the feat that lets humans count as another race, which uses identical wording to the -blooded text of the half-races, and it was ruled the feat lets a human take that race's archetypes.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Amurion View Post
    I know it says it is for the orc race, but I was under the assumption that a half-orc ounted as an orc for everything.
    Just an FYI, the Designers have said that as far as "Race Specific [thing]" is concerned, that Half-Elf and Half-Orc do NOT count as either Human, OR their other half.
    So, according to the Designers Intent, Half-Orcs cannot take the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype.

    On the one hand, this makes (some) sense.
    On the other hand it throws out a half-dozen other rules, and is horribly confusing.

    Either way, ASK YOUR DM if they'll allow it.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2012-10-28 at 08:13 PM.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Interesting. They need to be a little bit more clear about that in the rules. In either case, my character was approved by the DM, so it doesn't hurt to ask your DM either.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Just an FYI, the Designers have said that as far as "Race Specific [thing]" is concerned, that Half-Elf and Half-Orc do NOT count as either Human, OR their other half.
    So, according to the Designers Intent, Half-Orcs cannot take the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype.
    Yeah, that cannot be correct...

    http://paizo.com/products/btpy8fo1/f...#v5748eaic9pka

    Can a human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in an archetype that requires you to be of a specific race?
    Yes, the Racial Heritage feat allows you to qualify for archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement, assuming you still meet all of the other requirements to take levels in the archetype.

    —Jason Bulmahn, 07/27/12
    Racial Heritage (Human)
    The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.

    Prerequisite: Human.

    Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
    •Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
    It's the same freaking text!

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    grarrrg, when you say, "the Designers" do you mean James Jacobs?

    According to this thread, he "ruled" against it.

    However, JJ is NOT in charge of the rules, and his "ask JJ" thread is all just his opinion / how he houserules things in his games. When it comes to the RAW, he is very frequently wrong.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    That is exactly why I thought anything on Orc could do a half-orc could do just as well.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    grarrrg, when you say, "the Designers" do you mean James Jacobs?

    According to this thread, he "ruled" against it.

    However, JJ is NOT in charge of the rules, and his "ask JJ" thread is all just his opinion / how he houserules things in his games. When it comes to the RAW, he is very frequently wrong.
    That could very well be the source.
    All I know (knew?) is that it was "an issue", and some high-ish ranking Paizo guy(s) said "no".

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Con based full caster, YES PLEASE.

    I miss my old 3E kenitic psion... anyhow I digress.

    Is the scarred witch doctor playable in PFS?

    and even more off topic, is a tattooed crossblooded sorcerer playable in PFS?

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    Is the scarred witch doctor playable in PFS?
    Nope. Nothing from the orc part of the ARG is available.

    and even more off topic, is a tattooed crossblooded sorcerer playable in PFS?
    Yes, with the following restriction:

    a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios)
    (see the Additional Resources page for more details)

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    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Fun idea: Get Scar, and use it on your allies. Then take the fortune hex. Then spam cackle. Grats, you can now sit at home all day laughing like a maniac and your now the best support in the game giving all your teammates a free d20 reroll each round. Get stuff like a orb of scrying (that lets you cast spells threw it/etc), sit back on the couch a few miles away, and throw heals/buffs out to them when needed.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    thanks Jmel,

    is it allowable to play a PFS game over the internet? say using roll20.net + ventrillo? or do you need to play in person?

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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    thanks Jmel,

    is it allowable to play a PFS game over the internet? say using roll20.net + ventrillo? or do you need to play in person?
    All the ones I've seen are at game stores or conventions. Given that the object of the exercise is to get people together, I don't think electronic play is allowed.

    You could of course get an internet playgroup to play under PFS rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    is it allowable to play a PFS game over the internet? say using roll20.net + ventrillo? or do you need to play in person?
    Yes, though I'd encourage you to look for a local event before going that route.

    From the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play:

    Another place to play Pathfinder Society events is online. Allowed formats include play-by-post, chat-based games, digital tabletops, and webcam-enhanced “face-to-face” gaming. So long as the Game Master has a way of distributing all of the appropriate paperwork (by fax, scan, or otherwise), any form of legitimate online play is allowed and encouraged

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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Well, I stand corrected. I'm interested to see how one would go now.
    Sandharrow by Chris the Pontifex
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    ya, unfortunately, I live in a small town, that doesn't even have a comic book shop. I'm hoping to move to san antonio one day though, and go stomp the local society game.

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    QuidEst's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] Witch advices

    Step one: Get a race with +2 in Dex and Int. If they've got any options for bonus to stealth, take them. (I recommend going Sylph, since it has the alternate racial Whispering Wind, which grants +4 to stealth, one of the better racial bonuses for it without going small.)
    Step two: Max Stealth. That means a cat or centipede familiar and the Slippery trait.
    Step three: Somewhere in levels 1-5, grab Skill Focus (Stealth). At level 7, grab Hellcat Stealth.
    Result: Free "invisibility" as a witch. Your bonuses (about something like 28 at level 7) are enough to easily offset any penalties you have from stealthing in plain sight. Considering that none of the Witch's hexes have an audible component (even Cackle doesn't need to be heard), you can knock people out before they know you're there.

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