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    Default Help with a build

    OK, I've been away from 4e for quite a long while, but I was invited to play in a oneshot this week. I'm supposed to be level 6.
    I'm not exactly sure what I'd play and I don't know much about what changed ever since 2010. I'm probably going with a hybrid Avenger/Swordmage with Hybrid Talent for either warding or armor of faith and Unarmored Agility. Wanted to do an eladrin initially (maybe even squeeze MC Fighter and Feycharge in there?), but I'm not sure if it will work.
    Another idea I had was a drow Sorcerer with MC Rogue, high on Storm Soul and using dual daggers.

    Basically, what I want is an attractive female character, highly agile, with skill over strenght and a bit of magic to season it. I kind of want to play Summer Glau. Yeah.

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    For the hybrid, what, exactly, is it that you want out of that combination mechanically? Hybrids are one of the very few builds in 4e that can be made totally uncompetitive - that is, they're usually very weak. Basically, unless you want something specific that you can't get any other way, you just don't play a hybrid, because anything else that can do what you want will do what you want better.

    Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage is also a pretty bad combination. You'd need, at the minimum, 3 stats, Wis and Int as primaries and one of Str or Con as a secondary, which means that your important stats will be low overall, meaning your attack and damage bonuses will be low compared to standard, so you'll hit less often and do less when you do hit. Generally, hybrids should either have both sides share a primary stat, or the primary stat of one side should be the secondary of the other and vice versa.

    The sorcerer, however, is a decent idea, though it doesn't really sound like what you want fluffwise. Maybe you should try a pure Avenger, pure Swordmage, or pure Monk?

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    For the hybrid, what, exactly, is it that you want out of that combination mechanically? Hybrids are one of the very few builds in 4e that can be made totally uncompetitive - that is, they're usually very weak. Basically, unless you want something specific that you can't get any other way, you just don't play a hybrid, because anything else that can do what you want will do what you want better.

    Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage is also a pretty bad combination. You'd need, at the minimum, 3 stats, Wis and Int as primaries and one of Str or Con as a secondary, which means that your important stats will be low overall, meaning your attack and damage bonuses will be low compared to standard, so you'll hit less often and do less when you do hit. Generally, hybrids should either have both sides share a primary stat, or the primary stat of one side should be the secondary of the other and vice versa.

    The sorcerer, however, is a decent idea, though it doesn't really sound like what you want fluffwise. Maybe you should try a pure Avenger, pure Swordmage, or pure Monk?
    I second this. If you been away from 4e for that long a hybrid isn't the way to jump back in.

    Although you can get a build on here easy enough, actually using it is another story. I've seen players have great combinations but not run the PC correctly (to the point where he wasn't having fun...).

    With what you want... I would say shielding swordsage or avenger .

    Since it is a one shot, ask the DM to swap out wisdom with charisma for your Avenger? That way you can have a high Cha and Con so you can be "beautiful".
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    Default Re: Help with a build

    I second a pure Monk. They are psionic, so she can kill you with her brain. Dex focused so you've got your nimble warrior for sure there. The newest Monk uses Cha as a secondary. Check out the Assassin as well, agile weapon user with some magic thrown in.

    If you really want a hybrid, Monk|Rogue or Monk|Sorcerer may be what you want. I see Summer's characters mostly as strikers, and hybrid strikers are normally pretty darn weak. I've made an Executioner|Warlock at level 2 that is pretty mean, using Eldritch Strike to get both sets of features to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    For the hybrid, what, exactly, is it that you want out of that combination mechanically? Hybrids are one of the very few builds in 4e that can be made totally uncompetitive - that is, they're usually very weak. Basically, unless you want something specific that you can't get any other way, you just don't play a hybrid, because anything else that can do what you want will do what you want better.
    I'm looking for teleports from assault swordmage and the increased accuracy from avenger. Among both, I get to take a dude away from the main fight for my very own duel to the death.

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage is also a pretty bad combination. You'd need, at the minimum, 3 stats, Wis and Int as primaries and one of Str or Con as a secondary, which means that your important stats will be low overall, meaning your attack and damage bonuses will be low compared to standard, so you'll hit less often and do less when you do hit. Generally, hybrids should either have both sides share a primary stat, or the primary stat of one side should be the secondary of the other and vice versa.
    Int is the secondary stat for Avengers and the primary for Swordmages, so I thought it should work. I played triple 16 characters before and the higher NATs seemed to make up for it. Also, ebing an Avenger my accuracy should be fine enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    The sorcerer, however, is a decent idea, though it doesn't really sound like what you want fluffwise. Maybe you should try a pure Avenger, pure Swordmage, or pure Monk?
    Really don't want to play a Monk, I've had a Monk in my party before and it sucked oh so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCheese View Post
    I second this. If you been away from 4e for that long a hybrid isn't the way to jump back in.
    But hybrids are fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCheese View Post
    Although you can get a build on here easy enough, actually using it is another story. I've seen players have great combinations but not run the PC correctly (to the point where he wasn't having fun...).
    But Swordmage/Avenger seems like a no brainer. Mark, teleport, attak, repeat until it's dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCheese View Post
    With what you want... I would say shielding swordsage or avenger .
    I need assault for the teleports

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCheese View Post
    Since it is a one shot, ask the DM to swap out wisdom with charisma for your Avenger? That way you can have a high Cha and Con so you can be "beautiful".
    We never played Charisma as beautiful in our group, so that won't be a problem, thankfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    I second a pure Monk. They are psionic, so she can kill you with her brain. Dex focused so you've got your nimble warrior for sure there. The newest Monk uses Cha as a secondary. Check out the Assassin as well, agile weapon user with some magic thrown in.

    If you really want a hybrid, Monk|Rogue or Monk|Sorcerer may be what you want. I see Summer's characters mostly as strikers, and hybrid strikers are normally pretty darn weak. I've made an Executioner|Warlock at level 2 that is pretty mean, using Eldritch Strike to get both sets of features to work.
    I'm not really trying to do Summer, just a character that could be played by Summer Glau.

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Avengers get teleports.

    And monks don't suck in 4e. They are insanely mobile and decently accurate, getting to pick target NAD. (They suck in 3e but that's another story).

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Quote Originally Posted by neonchameleon View Post
    Avengers get teleports.
    Not like a Swordmage, they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by neonchameleon View Post
    And monks don't suck in 4e. They are insanely mobile and decently accurate, getting to pick target NAD. (They suck in 3e but that's another story).
    Well, this is my experience and you disagreeing is not going to change it.

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post

    Well, this is my experience and you disagreeing is not going to change it.
    Which is one of those dang ol' "good build but no fun" elements I referenced to earlier. Mechanically (and tons of opinion) do support the idea of 3.e monks suck and 4e monks are awesome.

    Yes hybrids can be fun though, heck I just finished a Rogue/Warden weird build because the DM told me slowing a creature makes it grat combat advantage... Not sure if it really does but I didn't argue. Rogue/Warden hybrid with MC Fighter (hammer Rythem feat + 1 AoO when enemy shifts away) so far has been fun as hell.

    But I digress

    The Avenger/Swordmage may be a good idea but will you be using one side more often? Do you really need them together? I've found that having the same role / secondary role is great BUT having two of the same mechanic just gets somewhat stale. It would be like mixing a wizard and a sorcerer... Sure you can get good mileage out of it but why didn't you just go straight one or another when you will be casting very simular spells.

    But then again I'm weird and like to spice things up in my hybrids.... I like taking unique things and smashing them together

    When I get home tonight I'm making a Avenger/Swordmage that is based around teleporting to get some better info on these two working together as one class.


    Oh yeah! What you should do is instead of hybriding 2 classes... Make 2 PC's with the same stats (perhaps not the same feats) but make 1 an Avenger and the other a Swordmage. Have the same background and everything if you want. Play both of them in a campaign, switching off each session... See what you like and don't like about the classes and really get to know them. Perhaps you don't even need to have them hybrid afterall and just choose one of the classes over the other.

    Or make a few random hybrid PCs and then if one isn't working... Jump off a cliff and go to the next one?

    :p
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    Default Re: Help with a build

    Over in this thread we actually just had a swordmage|avenger build laid out.

    Edit: Also, if you want an Arcane teleporter that can change and is pretty agile, have you considered a Feylock|Swordmage?
    Last edited by Tegu8788; 2012-10-30 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

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    Default Re: Help with a build

    So I've finally been able to make the Avenger/Swordmage.

    What bummed me out is that at level 11 the hybrid's AC became 29 (my warden's is 28) (paragon hybrid PP).

    +3 Cloth Armor
    Armor of Faith: +3
    +3 for having a 1 handed weapon (khopesh for brutal 1) and nothing in the other hand..

    10
    1/2 level (5)
    Class Feature (+3) (hybrid talent feat lvl 1)
    Class Feature (+3) (hybrid talent feat lvl 11)
    Magic Armor (+3) (+1 Will)
    Intelligent Mod (+5)

    I put everything else really on random and didn't give it any magic items outside of the armor... the NADs are 18/20/22 so with a +2 item that won't be to horrible, though fort will need some major help....

    I'm having problems with my connection so I'll have to finish it some other time.
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