Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    killem2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    I'm trying to come up with a BBEG as possible back up plan for Three Faces of Evil, when the party fights the aspect of hextor. If past sessions have shown to me, my party always overcomes my fights no matter how much I think I've planned for it.

    I would like this creature/class whatever it is to be very very good at ability damage, but I also want them to have access via spells, abilities, feats, whatever the means to hit what ever is usually considered the easiest ability to drain.

    I'm not looking to exactly bring them down to 1 or 0, but watching say the cleric scramble as his wisdom maybe gets knocked down to 11 instead of 20.. Or the half orc who is enlarged has a str of 9. :)
    Last edited by killem2; 2012-10-27 at 06:04 PM.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Any psychic Assin 5 (ECL 10) can get Mind Cripple which deals 2 Int Damage per sneak attack, add the Maiming Strike feat (Exemplats of Evil) which let's you trade 2 SA dice for 1 Cha damage, add poisons (which you can get through psionic minor creation).
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Spoiler: Iron Chef Trophy/Characters
    Show

    Stephan & Artorias sigatars by CoffeeIncluded, IC thropy by Savannah

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Being the dm you can just add any ability you want. If you want to adjust the cr of the encounter just figure the cost of the abilities you want to add as a template.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    One mile above sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Well as the DM you don't always have to follow the rules. Make it a 6 headed acid dragon that each head breathes a negitive energy cone that deals 1d3 ability damage to a single ability score! If you are looking for things that deal ability damage then poison is really good at just about everything. The 2ed lvl spell Ice knife deals 2dex damage and has a few other goodies.
    Last edited by Magnera; 2012-10-27 at 07:06 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    • Targeting Con is more likely to kill rather than targeting the other stats which just disable.
    • Targeting Str is generally the easiest, but also the least important.
    • Targeting casting stats will weaken the casters, obviously, and so may be the most effective in challenging the party.
    • Targeting random stats is the hardest to fix since it requires multiple Lesser Restorations (which might be all your clerics have left) or more powerful spells such as Heal.
    Last edited by nedz; 2012-10-27 at 07:16 PM.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mithril Leaf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Dexterity is generally the choice for non-poison. Person Man has a handbook. That guy is super handy as far as handbooks go.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
    My Homebrew Signature such as it is.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    eggs's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Master of Shrouds is really good at this. An ECL 9 Wizard 1/Cleric 2/Master of Shrouds X can mass summon things like Shadows and Spectres as a standard action to do lay out silly amounts of strength damage and negative levels.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    killem2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    • Targeting Con is more likely to kill rather than targeting the other stats which just disable.
    • Targeting Str is generally the easiest, but also the least important.
    • Targeting casting stats will weaken the casters, obviously, and so may be the most effective in challenging the party.
    • Targeting random stats is the hardest to fix since it requires multiple Lesser Restorations (which might be all your clerics have left) or more powerful spells such as Heal.
    I dunno str weighs alot in my group, we have tons of melee, they love their strength.

    We have fighter, barbarian x2, ranger, scout, two wizards, rogue, cleric.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Jeff the Green's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Great PNW
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Ego whip (psion/wilder 2) for Charisma damage. Lots of things (and characters) have low Charisma, so it can be fairly powerful. [Mind-affecting], unfortunately.
    Greenman by Bradakhan/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    One mile above sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Get a ghost! They have many was of lowering someone's ability scores. With drain touch you could attack them for 1d4 of the ability for each attack. Think furry of blows+ whirling frenzy barbarian+ haste+ two weapon fighting with fists! A level 20 example is 1barb/3monk+16barb. It would go like this with haste and snap kick. 16/16/16/16/16/14/11/9/6/4 All of them are with out any ability bonuses and are touch attacks. So you got 10 attacks that deal 1d4 ability damage with no save to any stat you want. Ghostly grasp will let your ghost interact with the world.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by killem2 View Post
    I dunno str weighs alot in my group, we have tons of melee, they love their strength.

    We have fighter, barbarian x2, ranger, scout, two wizards, rogue, cleric.
    Well their damage output will go down, but its also likely to be their highest stat and the most likely to be buffed. Targeting Cha on the other hand (since you have no Sorcerers or Bards) is more likely to drop them, especially since its likely a dump stat.

    Targeting Str should work on the Wizards, and maybe the Rogue and Cleric, but again they are likely to have a spare Bulls Str, or some such buff, which can keep them going.

    So targeting Str will annoy them and reduce the DPS, but it is the least likely to take them down.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MarsRendac's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by killem2 View Post
    I dunno str weighs alot in my group, we have tons of melee, they love their strength.

    We have fighter, barbarian x2, ranger, scout, two wizards, rogue, cleric.
    They're playing all at once? With a party that big, I would definitely throw some mooks in the ring. Maybe every time you draw his blood, it falls to the ground and rises the next round as a Medium taint elemental or an umbral orc warrior. If that sounds like too much, just put a cap on it or make it only happen 25% of the time.

    How about giving him a (Su) breath weapon that duplicates waves of exhaustion for those melees? A quick-and-dirty -6 penalty to Str and Dex, and no running or charging. Or raging.

    Then have him summon, say, 1d4 or 2d3 Large+ monsters with high Str and improved grab to go after the wizards. If it summons more than you need, just have the remainders duel the exhausted barbarians.

    Effectively, they'll be down to the rogue, the scout, and the cleric. Then have the BBEG focus on the cleric. You might not need to make him all that strong because of the amount of control he has. Just give him a nice pool of hit points, good spell resistance or Fort/Will saves, and possibly some vampiric abilities (a mass inflict would be stellar if he's undead) to make the battle feel extra-hopeless, when they're really just fighting a wall of meat and his 15 closest friends.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ponyville
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Well their damage output will go down, but its also likely to be their highest stat and the most likely to be buffed. Targeting Cha on the other hand (since you have no Sorcerers or Bards) is more likely to drop them, especially since its likely a dump stat.

    Targeting Str should work on the Wizards, and maybe the Rogue and Cleric, but again they are likely to have a spare Bulls Str, or some such buff, which can keep them going.

    So targeting Str will annoy them and reduce the DPS, but it is the least likely to take them down.
    ^This.

    Do you want to ANNOY them?
    Or do you want to DEFEAT them?

    To annoy them, target their High Stats, it will make them less good at what they are good at, but has little/no chance of dropping them, as it IS their Highest Stat.

    To DEFEAT them, hurt their Low Stats. Granted, since they are Dump stats, the first few lost points won't even be noticed. But if you can do that final point of damage...

    So Annoy is Slow-gains, low chance of dropping.
    Defeat is NO-gain, Higher chance of dropping.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Silva Stormrage's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    I second ego whip. A psion is a good boss anyway as they can soak a lot of damage with Share Pain+Vigor + Their Psicrystal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
    ...Silva, you are a scary person.
    Awesome Avatar by Derjuin

    My Homebrew: Here
    The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Ego whip thirded. Except that it may be too good. When they fail the save, they lose cha. When they pass the save... they also lose cha. Then next turn he can try again on the same guy who saved and bam he's down anyway. Don't be surprised if he starts taking out a PC every 1 or 2 turns. If you really want him to be evil he can have henchmen who coup de grace.

    Even cheesier than ego whip is shivering touch, but that's so good that it's a common ban target. Or even when it's not a ban target it leads to MAD nuclear tactics, or that is responding with equally broken tactics which make 100 other non-nuclear spells of the same type obsolete. Anyone without an encounter ending nuke or ultimate defense is bringing a knife to a gun fight. Beware, down this path lies rocket tag.

    If you don't want ability damage to be that strong then the fix is to make it a penalty that won't reduce the score below 1. These spells are actually designed to reduce an ability rather than knock someone out. They are meant to be effective against a high stat rather than a low stat. The problem with that on a BBEG is that he must target con or else he must be able to target all 5 other stats and either figure out which enemy uses what or hit multiple at once. Or reducing str to 1 can keep even the arcane casters from moving, but by itself being immobile isn't horrible.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-29 at 12:04 AM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles: Part 1, 2

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Biffoniacus_Furiou's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Spellthief 1/ Psion 4/ Psychic Assassin 6/ Slayer 9 is an extremely strong build in general, you can reduce it to suit your party's capabilities. Mind Cripple does 2 Int damage per hit when he's sneak attacking, which considering (Improved) TWF and a Wand Chamber with a Wand of Wraithstrike (usable via Spellthief's spell list) can easily disable an opponent in a single round. Get Practiced Manifester and Psicrystal Affinity, use Share Pain on the psicrystal and don't forget it has Hardness 8. Manifest Vigor and share that with it as well to double-up on the hp cushion. Put the psicrystal in a compartment so opponents won't have line of sight/effect to it but he still will. The psicrystal can even wear a Healing Belt and heal him for 2d8 three times.

    Give him the feat Quick Recovery and/or a Third Eye Clarity to mitigate crowd controls. Throw on a Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM) for Hide in Plain Sight along with Darkstalker (LoM) and he can do some hit-and-run strikes every few rounds. He can still use Ego Whip and even drop an Astral Construct to flank with if necessary.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Apr 2012

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    I had a monster than sudden maximize summoned undead 5 for a bunch of allips which promptly drained the cleric to 11 wisdom.

    Allip swarm + haste on allips = everyone dies. Target the guy with turning, first.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    killem2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Best class for ability damage, and easiest ability to damage?

    Thanks for all the replies everyone.

    I think I am going to combine a bit of the undead flavor needed (since it is Age of Worms), along side the idea of mooks.

    Let me know what you think of this idea.

    I was going to start a spin down counter (a d20 that is arranged so you can easily count down with it), and each interval a new challenge comes out until they destroy the Ebon Aspect (miniature played by Aspect of Hextor).

    Here is the entire team that will be making this up:

    Level 2 Barbarian
    Level 6 Barbarian
    Level 5 Fighter/Level 1 Stone Lord (with a pretty stout Medium Brown Bear cohort)
    Level 5 Rogue/ Level 1 Fighter
    Level 6 Wizard
    Level 2 Ranger/Level 4 Scout
    Level 7 Wizard (NPC)
    Level 5 Cleric/Level 1 Fighter
    Level 6 Ranger with Swindlespitter

    Ebon Aspect

    Each round I turn the dial down.
    20
    19
    18: 6d4+5 Human Zombies (As per default Monster Manual Entry)
    17
    16
    15: 2d4 Human & 1d3+2 Bugbear Skeletons (As per default Monster Manual Entry)
    14
    13
    12: 2d4+5 Ghouls (As per default Monster Manual Entry)
    11
    10
    9: 2x Death Locks (As per default Libis Mortis Entry)
    8
    7
    6: 1x Greater Shadow (As per default Monster Manual Entry)
    5
    4
    3: 1x Gauth (As per default Monster Manual Entry)
    2
    1
    X: Use the Zombie Mob. (from dmg II)

    I want my cleric to get his turn undead checks in motion, he rarely has gotten a real chance to use it. He also loves to heal, so he is right there keeping people alive like nobody's business.

    The normal room this takes place in, I have made bigger, so it is twice the size and will be able to contain this immense battle.

    This is kind of the format I want to stick with for this battle. If you have not see this fight, there is a large black pool of thick liquid that is used as a sacrificial pit to call forth the Ebon Aspect. So these minions will crawl out of this place.

    If you think I should swap these out or do something different, let me know. I have an abundance of the zombies/skeleton minis.
    Path of the Nefarious: A Way of the Wicked Journal.
    Please take a look at the adventures of my group going through Fire Mountain Games's Way of the Wicked, An evil based Pathfinder Compatible adventure path.
    http://d20evil.blogspot.com/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •