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    Default How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    This character is for a one-shot horror D&D. As a joke, I'm trying to make him have high AC, deal a good amount of damage (all other players are 18th level) and most importantly, SURVIVE. I'm given the full budget allotted to a 20th level PC. Suggestions?

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    SS survivor PrC. It gets improved evasion, improved uncanny dodge, and I think mettle(?) in 5 levels of d12 HD and all good saves. It doesn't, however, advance BAB at all, and I don't think the skill list was too good.

    It's a PrC that was designed to make the creature that takes it harder to kill and nothing else. A commoner can enter at level 2 or level 4 depending on whether you care if he has to spend two levels with just the HD and Save bonus.

    It might've been slippery mind instead of mettle.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    All 20 levels have to be in the commoner NPC class, detailed in the DMG.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Use the build described in the Bloodlines Handbook for Sam the Commoner...

    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=7167

    Most of his power comes from Wild Cohort, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, Leadership, Landlord, Item Familiar, and Improved Cohort. Give him a bunch of Tier 1 followers...

    You don't get powerful by using class abilities. You get powerful by being in a flying warship, which is a huge, sentient, flying aircraft carrier that ferries Rocs or other flying mounts that you have trained with your handle animal, and their riders with a vast array of powerful cohorts, and the ability to arbitrarily fill up any given area with an arbitrarily large amount of chickens so that things suffocate or die from the weight of chickens pressing in on them. Mostly, your power comes from all the powerful spellcasters of various sorts around you...

    Also, a crazy high use magic device via apprentice spellcaster. And wealth via mercantile background, landlord, and item familiar.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-10-28 at 07:55 PM.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by lerg2 View Post
    All 20 levels have to be in the commoner NPC class, detailed in the DMG.
    That's the only requirement? If so it's time for UMD abuse.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by lerg2 View Post
    All 20 levels have to be in the commoner NPC class, detailed in the DMG.
    Then simply accept that the poor guy isn't long for this world.

    If all you've got is feats and equipment to work with, you're going to want to find a way to get UMD added to the class skill list (I understand there are at least 2 feats that do this) and max it out. Everything the poor guy does should center around the most efficient possible use of the magic items you give him. Schemas (MoE) can make him a poor-man's sorcerer (kinda) and wands and/or eternal wands can get him up to pitiful excuse for an artificer (barely).

    All of the above assumes that the commoner in question can't abuse the crap out of handle animal for some reason. In that case, war-beast battle-titans are your bestest friends ever. Google Bubs the commoner for details.

    Ultimately though, 20d4 with poor BAB and a pitiful selection of skills and barely any skill points to put in them, means he will almost certainly die horribly and early. (The similarity to sorcerer HD is irrelevant because sorcerer's get spells; the class feature to have in 3.5.)

    Edit: The ninjas! they're everywhere!
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-10-28 at 07:58 PM.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    This is actually pretty easy. At level 20 you're ridiculous rich and magic items can cover all you need. I'd cross-class UMD a staff or three and be a "wizard". You can afford a staff with great spells. As long as you're getting UMD you might as well carry a billion level 1 to 3 utility scrolls and wands too so you're ready for every situation imaginable. Mostly spells without saves or caster level dependant effects that you use between combat. Don't worry, I've never run out of charges on a staff or wand; you can go whole campaigns like this. If you have a campaign go on for years (IRL) you could run out but by then you'll be 20 times richer so it won't matter even a little bit.

    Good utility magic items for things like flight are nice too. Items for defensive stats help too.

    For offense though your attack bonus is 10 points behind and you'll never hit. I wouldn't attempt any melee or archery build.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-28 at 08:23 PM.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Ample application of feats that grant class features should be a start. Martial Study and Stance, Draconic Aura, Shape Soulmeld, Hidden Talent, for example.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Thanks! He IS supposed to be a joke, before my real character comes into play. Who knows? He might live.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Chicken Infested is your best bet. Get an item that lets you cast greater consumptive field and pull out infinite chickens to give yourself infinite strength.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by lerg2 View Post
    Thanks! He IS supposed to be a joke, before my real character comes into play. Who knows? He might live.
    If you want him to live it's not that difficult.

    Step 1: Take the Feat Flexible Mind (Dragon #326) for UMD.
    Step 2: Max UMD.
    Step 3: Buy a Scroll of Shapechange.
    Step 4: UMD your Scroll of Shapechange.
    Step 5: Shapechange into a Zodar
    Step 6: Use your Wish (Su) ability to Wish up a Scroll of Extended Shapechange at CL 1,000,000.
    Step 7: Shapechange into a Lilitu.
    Step 8: Use your Item Use (Ex) ability to use your CL 1,000,000 Shapechange Scroll.
    Step 9: Shapechange into a Zodar
    Step 10: Use your Wish (Su) ability to Wish up a Scroll of Ice Assassin of an Aleax Psion (Telepath) that physically looks like you with Dex, Str, and Con scores of 500 and the True Mind Switch power as one of it's powers known.
    Step 11: Shapechange into a Lilitu.
    Step 12: Use your Item Use (Ex) ability to use your Ice Assassin scroll.
    Step 13: Order your Ice Assassin to True Mind Switch with you.
    Step 14: Kill your Ice Assassin.
    Step 15: Pay to have Psychic Chirurgery manifested on you to remove the level you lost.
    Step 16: Enjoy your truly immortal existence in a body far superior to your own.
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    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Use Magic Device
    Use Psionic Device
    Handle Animal (train dinosaurs and other creatures)

    Feats (leadership and cohort feats)

    Magical Items

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    As someone suggested, Chicken Infested. All the humor you ever need. EVER.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Human commoner 20
    Flaws:
    Chicken infested
    Weresheep

    Feats:
    Toughness (Retrained into Improved Toughness later)
    Troll Blooded
    Spellfire Wielder
    Aberrant Dragonmark (Shield is nice and can charge yer spellfire. I think.)

    Skills:
    Max out handle Animal and UMD. Put a few ranks in Survival and a Craft (Poison is good.)


    You are now an (almost) unkillable lycanthrope with a deathray and a guard dog that everything wants to swallow. Put on some ingestion poison and oblige them.
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


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    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    There's always the Bloodline+Extra Slot+Heighten spellcasting jack-knife to learn a few spells, up to level 9 effects. They're shenanigans, but if you're using WBLomancy, it might as well come with a couple free and level-appropriate spell effects tossed into the mix.

    EDIT: Or some bloated HD-laden monster race. At very worst, Marrulurk for death attack and SA. I don't believe the printed death attack DC constitutes an exception to the Rules Compendium Extraordinary ability DC formula, since it doesn't propose an alternative and follows it exactly, so the DC would scale with your HD total. Optimizing Marrulurk sneak and death attacks (and making judicious use of WBL), I think you could make a workable straightclassed level 20 commoner.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-10-29 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Why do people keep talking about taking UMD cross-class? There are a few feats that let you take skills as class skills, mostly setting-specific but the Apprentice feat from DMG2 includes one for UMD.

    Also, if you don't want your comedy commoner to be loaded down with enough magical gear to destroy the local economy, maybe look at Vow of Poverty? Equipment is better, but if you're wanting the 'I'm just a harmless commoner' vibe that would work well for surprising them
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    I you truly feel like abusing WBL, then search the Stronghold Builders Guide for the Landlord feat. Obviously you have to spend all those extra resources on your stronghold, but who said it can't be compact and mobile? You basicaly build yourself a magical tank to ride around in. Outfit it with spellclocks (with various offensive and defensive spells) and become the true horror of the story.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Not sure if it'll help because I mostly use it for followers, but if you want Turn Attempts, and thus access to the various feats that require you have Turn Attempts, Dragon Magazine 305 has God Touched and Divine Channeler. It's pretty bad, as it's just a once a day for the price of 2 feats, but it counts.

    Better option if you can justify it (and get the knowledge ranks) is Planar Touchstone with Sun Domain from Dragonlance.
    Last edited by babus; 2012-10-29 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    I you truly feel like abusing WBL, then search the Stronghold Builders Guide for the Landlord feat. Obviously you have to spend all those extra resources on your stronghold, but who said it can't be compact and mobile? You basicaly build yourself a magical tank to ride around in. Outfit it with spellclocks (with various offensive and defensive spells) and become the true horror of the story.
    I changed my mind. Chicken Infested cheese is nowhere near as good as the cube.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    For hp you could be an artic dragonborn mongrel folk for +8 to con.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    You could take the delicious (IIRC) commoner flaw and make it so monsters always attack you first. Then pump all your defenses up to high heaven.

    Possible backstory: You were travelling with some adventurers who gave you a little gear to protect yourself. Soon you learned to fudge it well enough to use it (UMD). Then everyone died but you and you picked up what treasure you could.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-30 at 12:45 PM.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    You can boost his UMD further with Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles. There are other incarnum feats that may come in handy here as well, letting him do things like fly and teleport without relying on items.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Hikikomori cube will be fun for 5 to 15 minutes. Invent a reason to get out of it when joke becomes unfunny.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    1. Play as an Outsider.

    1.5:Have the Chicken Infested flaw.

    2. Something that gives you the spell Polymorph Any Object.

    3. Take the feat Assume Supernatural Ability from Savage Species.

    4.Find a way to get temporary negative levels.

    5. Turn into a permanent Barghest using Polymorph Any Object and assume its Feed Supernatural ability.

    6. Use temporary negative levels to lower your HD down to 1 so that your chickens count as a legitimate object for feeding.

    7. Continue to feed and lower HD an arbitary number of times.

    8. After gaining 9 HD through feeding you will turn into a Greater Barghest, which now nets you the rest of the Barghest's abilities and its own.

    9. Continue feeding and draining until you have gained 18 HD.

    10. You can only reach 18 HD from feeding, but you can gain an infinite amount. Begin piling every template onto this beast that you can find.

    11. Once you have every possible template stacked on, heal your negative levels.

    12. Use Psychic Reformation to change all of your Barghest HD into more commoner levels.

    13. Repeat process, since you now no longer have levels from Greater Barghest feeding.

    14.???

    15. Profit by gaining an infinite number of levels, the Greater Barghest's abilities, and as much template stacking as you can stand (since you gain levels from feeding, not XP the level adjustment is effectively ignored).

    EDIT: I just realized that the infinite commoner levels is dependent on a very loose interpretation of "reach." However this still allows for infinite template stacking on a character of up to 18 HD, which I think is pretty chill. Bonus points if you played a goblin to begin with and used a scroll to become an Outsider, as you can now change into a goblin at will (so you can play yourself with all the templates!)
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2012-10-30 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    6. Use temporary negative levels to lower your HD down to 1 so that your chickens count as a legitimate object for feeding.

    10. You can only reach 18 HD from feeding, but you can gain an infinite amount. Begin piling every template onto this beast that you can find.
    With you except for these two. Only Humanoids are valid feeding targets. Not that other commoners are hard to find, or you could raid a kobold warren, but chickens don't work. Additionally, the feed ability explicitly grants HD, outsider hit dice at that. Salvageable idea overall though.
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    With you except for these two. Only Humanoids are valid feeding targets. Not that other commoners are hard to find, or you could raid a kobold warren, but chickens don't work. Additionally, the feed ability explicitly grants HD, outsider hit dice at that. Salvageable idea overall though.
    1. Drat! I missed that Oh well, time to go eat through some villages!

    2. I agree. I am pretty sure there is a way to change HD from Outsider to class, which would allow you to bypass LA problems.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    1. Drat! I missed that Oh well, time to go eat through some villages!

    2. I agree. I am pretty sure there is a way to change HD from Outsider to class, which would allow you to bypass LA problems.
    Oh, I meant for granting templates. Not sure how you'd convert outsider HD to templates. Another option if you're not above polymorph shenanigans, the baleful polymorph being awakened trick, discussed here.
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    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Oh, I meant for granting templates. Not sure how you'd convert outsider HD to templates. Another option if you're not above polymorph shenanigans, the baleful polymorph being awakened trick, discussed here.
    I was just suggesting using it to get around the LA of acquired templates. You couldn't use inherent ones unfortunately, because they would be lost turning into the Barghest. The coolest thing about it IMO is that the Feed ability specifically transforms the Barghest into the greater Barghest, so you can gain all of its abilities from one use of Assume Supernatural Ability.

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    Default Re: How to optimize a 20th level commoner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I was just suggesting using it to get around the LA of acquired templates. You couldn't use inherent ones unfortunately, because they would be lost turning into the Barghest. The coolest thing about it IMO is that the Feed ability specifically transforms the Barghest into the greater Barghest, so you can gain all of its abilities from one use of Assume Supernatural Ability.
    Ah, I gotcha now. The feed ability is interesting because when you gain those 9 HD, you can't be dispelled anymore, seeing as it's an SU ability that turned you into a greater barghest. You could get up absurdly high charisma with other good stats if you use both this and baleful polymorph. Might even toss in some warbeast training if you've got time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
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