Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Hunter's Mercy

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AlanBruce's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Hunter's Mercy

    Greetings! Stupid question, I know, but it was argued ad nauseum at my game today. Hunter's Mercy (Spell Compendium p.117) states that your bow will strike a critical hit. The ranger who cast the spell stated that the damage was automatic - no roll necessary. I counter argued that you do get to score critical damage, but you need to hit the target first, using a d20 to determine success whether you hit or not. I am almost certain that I am right, but I would greatly appreciate if more experienced DMs and players out there could clarify this little spell for me.

    Thank you very much in advance.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    tyckspoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    Your first hit with a bow
    (not including crossbows) in the next
    round is automatically a critical hit. If
    you don’t hit in the round following
    the casting of this spell, the effect is
    wasted.
    I don't really see how you can read that as 'you don't have to try and hit any more'. Your player is wrong, smack him and tell him to stop munching. (Don't actually do this. But seriously, if it meant 'you automatically hit' it would, well, say that.)

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MarsRendac's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I don't really see how you can read that as 'you don't have to try and hit any more'. Your player is wrong, smack him and tell him to stop munching. (Don't actually do this. But seriously, if it meant 'you automatically hit' it would, well, say that.)
    I agree, minus the parenthetical. Actually smack this fool.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    "Your first hit" means you have to hit first. If it was an automatic hit, it would say that, or say something like "your first attack..."

    The spell has no effect on any attack unless it hits (and is the first hit of the round).

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AlanBruce's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    It's what I argued, but he was adamant in stating that the crit damage was just dropped on the enemy- which made no sense. I ruled against him and naturally, got frowned upon. I have linked him here so he may read the response and finally understand.

    Thank you so much for the responses.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    I agree with you and the others. The spell clearly only takes affect if you roll a succesful attack with the bow. I simply can't understand how your player (or anyone else) could read that any other way.

    Maybe if english isn't his first language?
    I am not seaweed. That's a B.

    Praise I've received
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

    Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AlanBruce's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    It isn't. We have both versions of the book- english and spanish. However, the wording in spanish is terrible, despite me telling the player that the english version stated he needed to roll an attack to get the benefit of the spell.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TuggyNE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pondering turns of phrase
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanBruce View Post
    It isn't. We have both versions of the book- english and spanish. However, the wording in spanish is terrible, despite me telling the player that the english version stated he needed to roll an attack to get the benefit of the spell.
    Suffice it to say that the native language of the original publishers (in this case, English) should pretty much always control. But yeah, that's unfortunate to have a misleading translation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BowStreetRunner's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Menasha, WI
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    If it was supposed to be an automatic hit, it would say 'your first attack with a bow in the next round is automatically a critical hit" and "if you don't attack in the round following the casting of this spell, the effect is wasted."

    But it doesn't say attack, it says hit. So in order to trigger the effect (an automatic critical) you don't just have to make an attack, you have to succeed in making a hit. The language here is very precise - it is the hit that triggers the automatic critical.
    “No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” ― Steven Brust
    "In God we trust. All others we investigate." - United States Army Military Police Corps
    My thanks to Komodo for the excellent Avatar.
    Check out BSR's Improved Sorcerer project.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Banned
     
    ThiagoMartell's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Suffice it to say that the native language of the original publishers (in this case, English) should pretty much always control. But yeah, that's unfortunate to have a misleading translation.
    That happens oh so often.
    Rainbow Servant in Portuguese has sparked so many debates...

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Hunter's Mercy

    You could tell him:

    1) That's not how the spell works. The English version states this clearly. You need to roll to hit first. This advice forum full of people who argue over dnd rules-wording for fun doesn't find any ambiguity here.

    2) Even of that was how it worked, that would it overpowered as all get-out, and we're not using something that broken. If you keep pushing this, I'll simply ban the spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •