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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Arcane spells from other classes

    Ok, So I am having a hard time finding on the PHB section (page 178) anything about learning spells from another class.

    Now the situation is this.

    My bard friend wrote a scroll for me of the spell cure light wounds. He casts it as an arcane caster not a cleric. I understand that my wizard should not be able to write to his spellbook any cleric spell from a scroll because those are divine magic. But what about the specific case of the Bard since it is arcane?

    What about another strictly arcane spell he wants to teach me in the future? The spell Heroism is a level 2 Bard spell but a level 3 Wizard. If he scribes the scroll for me do I learn it as a 2nd level spell or I can't learn it at all?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    You can't transplant spells like that. You can scribe a bard's CLW into your book, but since it's not a sorc/wiz spell you can never prepare it.

    You need either a feat or class feature that explicitly allows you to pull from another list to do this.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    I am not arguing the point because I know someone here in the playground will direct me to the pertinent text or official errata or WoTC FAQ. But that is what I am looking for, where does it say you can't?
    By reading the PHB in page 179 "Spells copied from anothers book or scroll section" it says "No matter what the spellís source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above)" Then later "If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook"
    Under "Arcane Magical writtings" page 178: "To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in anotherís spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spellís level).

    Nowhere here says anything about a spell list except for describing the Bard and Sorcerer way of learning spells. It specifically states A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table 3Ė5: Bard Spells Known or Table 3Ė17: Sorcerer Spells Known. It says that the DM may allow other spells to be learned.

    My understanding is that Bards and Sorcerers learn spells, innate or awakened from their minds when they level up.

    Wizards instead can learn from study and at any time.

    Please enlighten me :)
    Last edited by Lost in books; 2012-10-29 at 11:37 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MarsRendac's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    Your class spell list is your class spell list. I guess you got hung up on "regardless of the source," which was probably meant to cover roleplaying situations, i.e. things that aren't scrolls or spellbooks. You can never add to your spells known for one class something that is not in your class spell list.

    If you want to learn the spell anyway, there are provisions for learning "unusual spells" in PHB/SRD, under the sorcerer description. You could talk to your DM about doing research on that particular spell to eventually learn it. Personally, if I allowed it in one of my games, there would be lots of challenges/quests involved, since you're already a mighty wizard and you don't necessarily need to be stepping on the mighty cleric's mighty toes.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in books View Post
    I am not arguing the point because I know someone here in the playground will direct me to the pertinent text or official errata or WoTC FAQ. But that is what I am looking for, where does it say you can't?
    By reading the PHB in page 179 "Spells copied from anothers book or scroll section" it says "No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above)" Then later "If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook"
    Under "Arcane Magical writtings" page 178: "To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another’s spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level).

    Nowhere here says anything about a spell list except for describing the Bard and Sorcerer way of learning spells. It specifically states A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table 3–5: Bard Spells Known or Table 3–17: Sorcerer Spells Known. It says that the DM may allow other spells to be learned.

    My understanding is that Bards and Sorcerers learn spells, innate or awakened from their minds when they level up.

    Wizards instead can learn from study and at any time.

    Please enlighten me :)
    "No matter the source" was a poor choice of words. It was almost certainly meant that the following worked the same regardless of whether the source was a scroll or another wizard's book. Nevertheless, as the rules are written, you can put litterally any arcane spell in your spell-book. Having it in your book doesn't make it a sorc/wiz spell though. Nothing in the text you've quoted changes that.

    You can't prep' a non-wizard spell in a wizard's spell-slot. To do so is blatantly against RAI, and is against RAW by all but the fuzziest of readings. By putting a bard spell in your spell-book you've become a wizard with a bard spell known, but you have no bard spell-slots to fuel it.

    Is this making any sense?
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    It makes sense because of the spell list clause. I got a very rules oriented DM and if it is in paper, whatever the rules say it is what it is period. No "RAI" stuff for him. But when I asked about the difference between spell levels for some classes he said "look it up". instead now i am more confused because the rules about a wizard learning spells, only states they must be arcane! not divine like a cleric. I am not trying to learn divine, that's stupid, but the only restriction constantly mentioned in the PHB was that the learned spell must be arcane in nature, not "The spell you learn must be arcane and in your specific arcane class list" And when I asked him about it, instead of showing me he just said "well that is the way is played" and when I asked him where it said that, this "rule lawyer" DM wasn't able to give me a reason.

    I am sure you can find the right answer in rules compendium or one of the complete magic books. That's all i need. It doesn't sit well with me when the whole game I am been beaten over rules, but when I happen to come up with a question that seems like "everyone" knows, he just dismisses it and doesn't show me where it is in the books. I just want to learn, and at least see the rule written somewhere so I can say I 100% know is true.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Arcane spells from other classes

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
    There it is.

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