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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    In the heat of a battle that could claim your life and the lives of dozens of you friends/allies, that sort of dialogue exchange is not going to happen.
    So... this was your first hollywood movie ever?
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    So... this was your first hollywood movie ever?
    There are movies and instances where (stupid) one liners work. This wasn't one of those.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    Found it a confusing, muddled mess. It may be because a lot of the robots ended up looking alike; lots of gray and not much color differentiation. No real wideshots to establish where the participants are spatially, lots of shaky, close-ups instead.
    All the robots have very unique shapes (partly because of the amazingly good decision to not allow for a change in mass, which I approve of on all levels, and that in itself makes these movies the only part of the Transformers franchise I have been able to even remotely take seriously unlike the comics and the animated stuff); Starscream is incredibly wide, for example. Megatron is also very distinctive. Also, colors and details... helicopter robot has blades on his back. Optimus is blue, red, and have a truck front on his chest and truck wheels on the back of his legs. And so forth.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-06 at 02:56 AM.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    In the heat of a battle that could claim your life and the lives of dozens of you friends/allies, that sort of dialogue exchange is not going to happen.
    It might've been a narrative misstep, but humour and witticism is often used as a coping mechanism to deal with such situations mentally.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Or at least the EU that isn't Timothy Zahn novels, although sadly his are the ones that got Jossed the hardest by the prequels.

    X-Wing could also still work if you completely rewrote all the dialog, and has the bonus of being largely about how the Rebellion went about securing governance of the Galaxy after the Emperor cacked it.
    What I personally think will happen is that the EU would go through a Ultimate Marvel process.

    Luke will still meet and marry Mara Jade only she'll be written differently Leia and Han will still have 3 kids Jaden,Jaina and Anakin but they might have different personalities, it might not be Jaden who turns sith but Jaina etc...


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
    My problem stems from the fact this could have been so easily dealt with but they went and ignored what information had been mentioned before just out of some kind of spiteful gesture to something that would have been a great successor to the original star wars movies (ie Thrawn).
    I see this again what did the Thrawn series offer a play by play of the clone Wars which was chucked out?

    You do have to accept that Lucas was at time still the author so he had the right to overwrite it.

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    There's references to "the clones the Fleet faced, early in the war" being unstable- this was retconned to the Confederacy using unstable clones against the Republic.

    Aside from that, most of the retcons to the Thrawn trilogy were minor and involved dates.
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    Post Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    In the heat of a battle that could claim your life and the lives of dozens of you friends/allies, that sort of dialogue exchange is not going to happen.
    Eh. Lovers flirt at stupid times.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    There are movies and instances where (stupid) one liners work. This wasn't one of those.
    Seems like a really odd nitpick though. Like pointing out that there's no way Leia should have been able to drive one of those speeder bikes without killing herself right away.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There's references to "the clones the Fleet faced, early in the war" being unstable- this was retconned to the Confederacy using unstable clones against the Republic.

    Aside from that, most of the retcons to the Thrawn trilogy were minor and involved dates.
    There's also the problem that the prequels make something of a point about not having much of a military in the Republic... against that whole lost 200 ship fleet thing.

    Given just about everyone went "lol yeah sure George, pull the other one" on the idea the Republic didn't have some arms but its there.
    Last edited by Soras Teva Gee; 2012-11-06 at 10:53 AM.

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    For me the prequels could have worked if they'd just tried to accomodate some if not all of the details mentioned in the books even if only for a "certain point of view"!

    I agree about the military bit, it would have made things more interesting if they revealed that the whole point of the first movie was the death of Qui-Gon Jinn which was to make Count Dooku turn against Yoda's faction.

    We had these stories from the Old Republic about Jedi Houses and it makes more sense for them to be the ones dealing with the Republic rather than Yoda's Jedi who are more monastic in outlook to demonstrate why Yoda is the way he is.

    The Separatists make more sense if through Dooku's intervention the mainpart of the Republic military is sent after Yoda's faction making it a three way fight with Yoda's Jedi heading into exile and hiding to avoid both Dooku's faction and Sidious's allies in the Separatists but with the two forces (Dooku and the separatists) fighting each other things come to a head when the Republic Senate makes a stand against Dooku making him join the Separatists along with most of the forces under his command forcing the republic to use the clone forces who up to this point have been kept in limited numbers as an alternative means of not depriving the member worlds of the Republic access to their own military forces as the conflict escalates.

    Dooku is betrayed and slain by Grievous who assumes command of the Separatists but is killed after Palpatine regains control over Dooku's surviving military and uses the clones to eliminate Dooku's Jedi.

    His Order 66 eliminates every known member of the Jedi Houses but Yoda's faction has several survivors who escape into the Outer Rim since their training meant they didn't have families of their own, some turn away from their former role and start families but others continue as the newly organised empire sets out to eliminate what they call the last remaints of the traitors that brought down the Republic namely Dooku's Jedi which is really Palpatine's way of dealing with Yoda's faction.
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2012-11-06 at 11:10 AM.

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    The prequels could have worked had I sympathized with any of the characters even for a moment, if I found the love story believable at all, or had seen a clear plot with a rise in tension leading to a conclusion, and didn't have my time wasted with exceedingly drawn-out actions sequences with crowded and forgettable visuals.

    Mostly "the not giving a damn about the characters", that was a problem that made everything else just feel like a third-rate and boring stage play with damned expensive set designs.

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by oblivion6 View Post
    so, if i may ask. why does everyone here think episodes 1-3 are a disappointment? i like the original as much as the next guy but i also liked the prequal series.
    I have two reasons I am disappointed with the prequels.

    1) Poor characterization compared to the OT. Han, Luke, and Leia formed an ensemble quickly in New Hope and I continued to care about these characters through the next two movies. Their relationships were believable and plausible and I cared about them. I never really made this connection with the prequel characters, which felt more like plastic action figures.

    2) It wasn't the Zahn novels.

    I watched the original star wars from 1979-1982. They were a treasured part of my childhood but I assumed they were in the past.

    Then, in the 1990s, George Lucas authorized the Expanded Universe. Zahn wrote the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy. I was introduced to Talon Karrde, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Captain Pelleon, Counselor Fey'la. They were well realized characters and a great story, well worth of the OT.

    So, when I heard that the prequels were announced, I was not holding them to the standard of the original trilogy. I was holding them to the standard set by Zahn. I assumed the storytelling and characterization would be at least equal to the bar set by the EU.

    Then Phantom Menace came out. And I was greatly disappointed. There was no villain like Thrawn and no new supporting hero like Karde. It felt more like an extended Saturday-morning cartoon. And that's a bit of an insult to Saturday morning cartoons, because some of them (Such as my little pony) are quite well-written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

    There's also the problem that the prequels make something of a point about not having much of a military in the Republic... against that whole lost 200 ship fleet thing.
    The "not much military" thing actually is a call back to US thinking as set down in our declaration of independence and the federalist papers. Thomas Jefferson and his ilk really disliked the idea of standing armies because they feared such an army would be put to exactly the use which the clone army in the movies was put. So the original idea was for a very small professional force which would act as a cadre for a larger militia in times of conflict. There would be no "standing army".


    The Jedi in the prequels seem to follow the wild west or the Texas Ranger model where, in times of crisis, the marshal would form up a posse of ordinary citizens to throw lawbreakers in jail. If you watch Obi-wan's interaction with the ordinary citizens of on Utapau ("If you have warriors, now is the time") or with the people of Naboo (the great gungan army and the queen's bodyguards), you can see this very dynamic at work.

    That's why the Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice. In times of trouble, it is their job to rally ordinary citizens to put things right, NOT to lead a galaxy-spanning professional military in imposing peace on said citizens, whether they like it or not. The transition from Jedi-led citizen militia a la the Grand Gungun army to Jedi-led slave/clone armies to Tarkin's "Fear will keep the systems in line" dependence on raw military force is one of the primary elements in the transition from Republic to Empire.

    The fact that the Republic has no military worth speaking of may be surprising to modern readers. But it wasn't so very long ago that some very prominent people seriously believed that a continent-sized nation did not require a standing army. Whether that is true or not is, of course, outside forum scope. But it is a part of American mythology that "Here once the embattled farmers stood, And fired the shot heard round the world." -- when ordinary citizens fought it out with professional soldiers and won. That may not be factually true, but we're discussing myth here, not history. And Star Wars is an American myth.

    ETA: Come to think of it, the Roman Republic used the same model. It wasn't until the Marian Reforms that the Roman army became a professional force loyal to its generals rather than a citizen force loyal to the Republic. This fundamental change in focus occurred at roughly the same time as the transition from Republic to Empire as well. It may be George Lucas also had this model in mind.

    E AGAIN to add:

    The Jedi model actually makes a great deal of sense for administering a galaxy-wide empire. It's got to be far less expensive to send two Jedi in a diplomatic ship to a hot spot than to send a full Star Destroyer with a complement of ground troops and fighters. A Star Destroyer is an extremely blunt instrument for diplomatic negotiations and not suitable for, say, sorting out who owns the water well everyone in town is fighting over. A Jedi will either sort the problem out with a combination of logic and force persuasion, or at worst will use the local forces already present to set things right. Thus problems are solved at as local a level as possible, which means the solution is more likely to last. By contrast, sending a force of clone troopers is going to probably result in a lot more collateral damage. It's also likely to breed resentment, because instead of an organic solution you're now imposing a solution from the outside. Probably everyone resents that. The upshot is probably BOTH sides wind up shooting at the clones. So the ultimate outcome makes everyone unhappy: Locals with a suboptimal solution to their problems being maintained by force by a military garrison from far away which really DOES NOT WANT TO BE THERE. Or you can send two Jedi to solve the problem locally and go home.

    The Jedi solution is a better solution when it works. It does in the GFFA. But then, light swords work better than grenades in the GFFA as well.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2012-11-06 at 12:51 PM.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    All the robots have very unique shapes (partly because of the amazingly good decision to not allow for a change in mass, which I approve of on all levels, and that in itself makes these movies the only part of the Transformers franchise I have been able to even remotely take seriously unlike the comics and the animated stuff); Starscream is incredibly wide, for example. Megatron is also very distinctive. Also, colors and details... helicopter robot has blades on his back. Optimus is blue, red, and have a truck front on his chest and truck wheels on the back of his legs. And so forth.
    The main protagonists are pretty distinctive. Optimus Prime, Megatron is gigantic, Starscream is a plane. There are definite stylistic differences (like Decepticons are more angular, the Autobots are rounder).

    However, it's hard to tell at a glance who is on which side, when there's no obvious color differentiation or insignia and the cuts are so quick. Trying to differentiate Barricade (a gray mech) vs. Jazz (another gray mech), when the camera is moving wildly is difficult. Even though Blackout is a chopper, with the rotor, he's still the same color as the other mechs.

    To move it back onto topic, the lightsaber duels are a good example of the kind of fight scenes I like, especially the Duel of Fates. Red lightsaber, Green lightsaber, Blue lightsaber, obvious uniforms on both sides, nice long wideshots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Seems like a really odd nitpick though. Like pointing out that there's no way Leia should have been able to drive one of those speeder bikes without killing herself right away.
    Force precog. Same reason a nine year old could outpilot trained professionals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Force precog. Same reason a nine year old could outpilot trained professionals.
    I assumed that was R2 piloting that fighter all the while creating new swear words as Annie messed around with the controls until R2 had to forcibly land the fighter inside the droid ship to give him time to recharge the shields, the fact that 9 year old found the firing controls for the missile launcher was a coincedence the fact R2 decided to fly the fighter out of the droid ship before those missiles blew up as annie played Space invaders with the droids and the droid fighters well that was just good luck!

    Yes i know someone said they don't believe in luck, but they also used to not believe in something called the force... same difference just that Han Solo has a Wookie as a co-pilot go argue semantics with him!
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2012-11-06 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post

    As for the pod race: I didn't like it, but I loved the homage to Ben Hur.
    Pod race took way too for long for me. One lap was too long, let alone three.

    I was always bothered by the exposition before the pod race. It was mentioned that humans do not have the reflexes to be great pod racers--with the exception of those who can use the force. Yet, practically all of the fighter pilots in the galaxy are humans. You'd think the Rebel Alliance would have recruited those pod racing aliens to join Rogue Squadron.

    I have made a semi-plausible explanation for this: those aliens with better reflexes have very poor three-dimensional spatial awareness. Thus, they make excellent pod racers but poor pilots. Otherwise, Sebulba would fly rings around famed flyers like Jek Porkins and Biggs Darklighter (ok, those two aren't the best example ).

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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    I was always bothered by the exposition before the pod race. It was mentioned that humans do not have the reflexes to be great pod racers--with the exception of those who can use the force. Yet, practically all of the fighter pilots in the galaxy are humans. You'd think the Rebel Alliance would have recruited those pod racing aliens to join Rogue Squadron.
    Story and gameplay movie segregation. Budget in old movies did not pay for tons of alien pilots.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    Pod race took way too for long for me. One lap was too long, let alone three.

    I was always bothered by the exposition before the pod race. It was mentioned that humans do not have the reflexes to be great pod racers--with the exception of those who can use the force. Yet, practically all of the fighter pilots in the galaxy are humans. You'd think the Rebel Alliance would have recruited those pod racing aliens to join Rogue Squadron.

    I have made a semi-plausible explanation for this: those aliens with better reflexes have very poor three-dimensional spatial awareness. Thus, they make excellent pod racers but poor pilots. Otherwise, Sebulba would fly rings around famed flyers like Jek Porkins and Biggs Darklighter (ok, those two aren't the best example ).
    'Nother in-story explanation: You go to war with the volunteers you have, not necessarily with the best people possible. A BIIIG part of the clone wars was to utterly annihilate and break non-human military power. Note that in the Clone Wars almost all the aliens seen on-screen are separatists, while the Republic troops are almost all humans and clones.

    This is not a coincidence. The Empire is human-centric and Speciesist. So was the Republic. Given that the Rebel alliance is essentially an offshot of the old Republic (formed by the human senators Mon Mothma and Baal Organa) , it's no wonder if rebel recruiting at the time of the battle of Yavin primarily reached out to other humans. Aliens, by contrast, probably can't tell much difference between gray-suited humans out to "save them from chaos For Their Own Good" and red-suited humans out to "liberate them from tyranny For Their Own Good". From the perspective of a Neimoidian who has just had most of his worldly goods confiscated, a plague on both their houses.

    The fact that there are more aliens in Return of the Jedi is explained by a combination of Imperial atrocities and rebel outreach. Which means the rebels have expanded their coalition such that they can now field Mon Calamari cruisers instead of just Tantive-IV corvettes.

    And has nothing whatsoever to do with limited budget and limited special effects

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
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    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    Pod race took way too for long for me. One lap was too long, let alone three.

    I was always bothered by the exposition before the pod race. It was mentioned that humans do not have the reflexes to be great pod racers--with the exception of those who can use the force. Yet, practically all of the fighter pilots in the galaxy are humans. You'd think the Rebel Alliance would have recruited those pod racing aliens to join Rogue Squadron.

    I have made a semi-plausible explanation for this: those aliens with better reflexes have very poor three-dimensional spatial awareness. Thus, they make excellent pod racers but poor pilots. Otherwise, Sebulba would fly rings around famed flyers like Jek Porkins and Biggs Darklighter (ok, those two aren't the best example ).
    Many of the pod-racers crashed. The claim is simply a widely held belief and has little basis in reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Many of the pod-racers crashed. The claim is simply a widely held belief and has little basis in reality.
    The best race car drivers crash from time-to-time. Why would the best pod-racers be any different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    The best race car drivers crash from time-to-time. Why would the best pod-racers be any different?
    Because like half of them crashed? In one race?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Seems like a really odd nitpick though. Like pointing out that there's no way Leia should have been able to drive one of those speeder bikes without killing herself right away.
    At least Leia driving a speed bike was bad ass and awesome! Also, why wouldn't she be able to pilot one of those things?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    At least Leia driving a speed bike was bad ass and awesome! Also, why wouldn't she be able to pilot one of those things?
    Totally!

    Oh and yes he is open to the idea.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/06/showbi...harrison-ford/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Force precog. Same reason a nine year old could outpilot trained professionals.
    Yeah, except the in instant Anakin took it off autopilot he went into a spin and crashed into the hangar bay. Not exactly what I'd call expert piloting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawriel View Post
    Well, so long as Shia LaBeouf isn't Leia's and Han's son, I'm cool with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Enemy Spy View Post
    Yeah, except the in instant Anakin took it off autopilot he went into a spin and crashed into the hangar bay. Not exactly what I'd call expert piloting.
    Auto pilot? No way he pressed space bar. The sign of a true pilot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawriel View Post
    Totally!

    Oh and yes he is open to the idea.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/06/showbi...harrison-ford/
    Ford coming back...sweet.
    Hamill coming back..sure, why not.
    Fisher coming back...OH GOD WHY.

    Seriously, she's a mess. When her and Shatner had their little Youtube video spat, I looked up their ages...Shatner is 81 and looks like he's in his 50's. Fisher is 56 and looks like she's in her 80's.
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    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  28. - Top - End - #358
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Soras Teva Gee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Ford coming back...sweet.
    Hamill coming back..sure, why not.
    Fisher coming back...OH GOD WHY.

    Seriously, she's a mess. When her and Shatner had their little Youtube video spat, I looked up their ages...Shatner is 81 and looks like he's in his 50's. Fisher is 56 and looks like she's in her 80's.
    I've seen some Mark Hamil interviews, and it may not show in all pictures but his facial paralysis has gotten more noticeable.

    And let's face it he was always just acceptable not great.

  29. - Top - End - #359
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mystic Muse's Avatar

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    Mar 2009
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    My Equestria
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    Female

    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Ford coming back...sweet.
    Hamill coming back..sure, why not.
    Fisher coming back...OH GOD WHY.

    Seriously, she's a mess. When her and Shatner had their little Youtube video spat, I looked up their ages...Shatner is 81 and looks like he's in his 50's. Fisher is 56 and looks like she's in her 80's.
    I think saying she looks like she's in her 80s is going a little far. More like late 60s.

  30. - Top - End - #360
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: New Star Wars Movie in 2015

    Let's face it, any new Star Wars is going to be like Abrams' Star Trek -- they are only going to put out a cursory nod to the old fandom and then take the general Star Wars themes up to eleven with a fast moving simple plot and colourful characters that are more millennial in flavour. What I thought the prequels should have been, to be honest. Now, will they have a Leonard Nimoy-like veteran to connect the two? Ford can do that. That's the cursory nod, but hopefully not the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull-like shenanigans.

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