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Thread: Dovahkiin

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Dovahkiin

    Hey Playground!
    I'm DMing for an Evil evil party, who are off in the mountains plundering ancient treasures.
    They're having a kinda hard time of it right now, but they're pretty much done all the big nasty stuff as soon as they make it out of their current, respective predicaments.
    There's an Aboleth they work with/for who has a respectably safe place up near the top of the mountain, and that's where they're liable to retreat to with their loot.

    So I'm thinking, what would be awesome to have waiting for them? Some good adventurer, attacking the Aboleth of course!
    The best contender for that? Probably a Bard.
    I was running through different build ideas, and I saw Dragonborn.
    A Dragonborn Bard.
    Fus ro Dah!

    Now, the problem here is I really don't have a lot of experience building bards. I've only ever made one with open books allowed, and one with core-only. I know of such cool bonuses as Snowflake Wardance, but haven't ever used them.

    So, I'm asking build optimizers in the playground: Can you help me make a Dragonborn Bard who could pose a reasonable challenge to an evil party made entirely of melee?

    Party level is 12. Solo encounter, he can be up to lv 15.
    Last edited by Acanous; 2012-10-30 at 06:22 PM.

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    The Redwolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Is this Steve the Aboleth and the same party as before? If so, will you please find somewhere to post what all has happened to them since you last told us? I've honestly been dying to hear back about them.
    καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν. John 1:05

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Here are some things to seriously consider for inclusion:

    Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic p17)
    Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds p48)
    Melodic Casting (Complete Mage p44)
    Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium p124)
    Vest of Legends (Dungeon Master's Guide II p272)
    Songblade (Complete Adventurer p130)
    Badge of Valor (Magic Item Compendium p208)
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    You have read, thoroughly, the main bard handbooks, yes?

    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=8284.0
    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...php?topic=9830
    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/commu...onks-lab/test2

    Is there anything in those three that you weren't familiar with, in particular? If you are DMing, take things from all over -- core books, non core books, pathfinder, whatever -- in the pursuit of this.

    Also give him a companion of some sort. And a wardog. And a fiendish warhorse. =D

    And maybe make him a lycanthrope...

    http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=607
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254888
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-10-30 at 08:52 PM.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    The Unrelenting Force shout (Fus Ro Dah) is definitely Gust of Wind. Just houserule that non-flying Medium creatures are also blown back 1d6x5 feet on a failed save, and you're good.

    He could use Dragonfire Inspiration (a powerful option uniquely available to Bards, and several handbooks exist for it) to set his weapons on fire, then Snowflake Wardance (fluffed as that one elemental strike shout) to make himself a good melee combatant. He can even skip DFI and pump regular inspire courage to give himself really big combat plusses, then Power Attack to his heart's content.


    Remember, the Dragonborn isn't the only one who can do Shouts. A lot of the Draugr were able to Shout too. If this goes over well, Necropolitan Bards ahoy!
    Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2012-10-30 at 09:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    well, strictly speaking Thu'um is what truespeak should have been. If you want to mimic the dragon language, maybe this will help:

    the lore in Skyrim clearly states that dragons breath fire/ice/whathaveyou becuase they speak the corresponding Thu'um. In DnD dragons have breathweapons. if we combine the two you can houserule that breathweapons for Dovahkiin are SLA's working by the reathweapon system (i.e. after using a particular SLA you can's use a SLA for 1d4+X rounds where X depends on the SLA used, another possbility is making the cooldown 1dX where SLA's have a level X). this also opens up the usage of metabreathfeats to tweak the powerlevels of said SLA's resulting in a greatly workable Thu'um.

    (if this works well, let me know and I'll devise a system for it in the homebrew thread, consider yourself a tester and kudos will be awarded for testing )

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    Is this Steve the Aboleth and the same party as before? If so, will you please find somewhere to post what all has happened to them since you last told us? I've honestly been dying to hear back about them.
    Yes, this is Steve the Aboleth. The party is now level 12, and not only is Steve still ALIVE, but the party WORKS for him now. I don't recall where I left off last, but if you PM me with how far you've heard, I'll PM you the rest.

    Reading Bard handbooks now, and the suggestion of SLA Thu'um has been heard. Perhaps a level in Dragon Shaman before going bard, just to make it work by RAW?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    DFA is the best Dovahkiin. Tempest Breath (Draconomicon) gets you the Fus line.
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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Considering the canon that a battle between dragons using Thu'Um is like a debate I think you'd get bonus points if when the party approaches him he offers to debate his actions with them and then just unloads with his breath weapon or whatever you give to him for it.
    καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν. John 1:05

    Thanks to Cuthalion for the awesome avatar!

    78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.

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    A camp of cyclops on a partially-dead magically-blighted plain.


    ThiagoMartel:
    Anime is a media, not a genre. Banning something for being 'too anime' is like banning something for being 'too book'.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    I'm not sure if a PM is the best medium. At least I want to hear about Steve's new adventures as well and I bet others would too.

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    The Redwolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    After reading the first PM I have to agree, it was pretty awesome. I have to say, the way you handled the planet and the moon is especially hilarious to me because my group had a discussion about our world and we suggested exactly what you did there and the guy who's normally our DM and originally helped build the world said no, that it was stupid, and nobody would ever do that even though the rest of us said it would be awesome, so you doing that just brings me so much happiness. I have to show him all of this now.
    καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν. John 1:05

    Thanks to Cuthalion for the awesome avatar!

    78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.

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    A camp of cyclops on a partially-dead magically-blighted plain.


    ThiagoMartel:
    Anime is a media, not a genre. Banning something for being 'too anime' is like banning something for being 'too book'.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    Considering the canon that a battle between dragons using Thu'Um is like a debate I think you'd get bonus points if when the party approaches him he offers to debate his actions with them and then just unloads with his breath weapon or whatever you give to him for it.
    Best excuse for a surprise round ever


    Did you know, Dragons use the same word for "Diplomacy" and "Initiative Bonus"?
    Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2012-10-31 at 07:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    I'm not sure if a PM is the best medium. At least I want to hear about Steve's new adventures as well and I bet others would too.
    Steve actually didn't get much face time for the next bunch of sessions. They DID go back later, but that was after going to the moon, ransacking a town they were supposed to protect, dealing with Necromancers, getting chased out of a holy city, and then turning on eachother during a war between those necromancers and their home city.

    If you just want the Steve-Relevant parts I can post 'em, if you want the whole thing, well, I still have the PMs I sent :p

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    DMofDarkness's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Hm... I remember the Stormsinger, from Frostburn, that seems perfect for this. It gives you the FUS, LOK, and STRUN lines for free. It also gives you a Lightning breath weapon, rather than Ice or Fire. Doomspeak can act as something similar to KRII, but hindering attacks rather than armor.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    OK, so I'm going with DFI and WoC. Also the items Vest of Legends, Songblade and Badge of Valor.
    Also, I found This, which seems EXACTLY like something I want.
    Looking into Stormsinger now, as that seems rather keen.

    So DFI Bard/Stormsinger Wordcaster (Songstriker Archetype) with WoC. Not sure if he could take a party at lv 12, but hey, it should at least be interesting.
    Last edited by Acanous; 2012-11-09 at 12:01 AM.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Sorry for the double post, but new content is done.
    Finished the build, would like any critiques/advice on it. I'm figuring on picking up a Slotless item of Snowsight for 8k, on top of the listed items. Otherwise, item purchases are fluid. Here's the sheet:

    Dovahkiin
    Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar
    Chaotic Good
    Savage Bard Songstriker6/Stormsinger6 (Wordcaster)
    (Lotus Geisha)
    HP: 88

    STR 10
    DEX 10
    CON 16
    INT 13
    WIS 10
    CHA 20
    -Used the Elite Array to start with, all lv up bonuses given to CHA.

    Fort: 7+3
    Ref: 7+0
    Will: 10+0

    BAB 8/3

    Languages: Common, Draconic, Dwarven
    Skills:
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    Acrobatics 9+0
    Bluff 15+5
    Concentration 9+3
    Knowledge Arcana 15+1
    Knowledge Geography 10+1
    Knowledge Nature 10+1
    Perform Sing 15+5
    Sense Motive 15+5
    Spellcraft 8+2
    Survival 4+0
    Use Magic Device 13+2+5

    I am incorporating the Pathfinder "+3 Trained" as ranks, for purposes of qualifying for PrCs and such. They are added in to the skills, which is why the math looks wrong here. Aside from that, the Sense Motive and Bluff skills are using Perform instead, as per Versitile Performance.

    Feats/special abilities:
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    Lotus Geisha: Add +2 to DCs and +1 to Bardic Music buffs if used as Single Target
    Songstriker-see 3 and 6
    1: Bardic Music
    1: Bardic Knowledge
    1: Countersong
    1: Fascinate
    1: Inspire Courage +3
    1: Storm Magic (+1 CL during storms)
    2: Versitile Performance (Bluff)
    3: Magical Aptitude (+2 UMD/Spellcraft)
    3: Wordstrike (1d4+6, half to living)
    5: Words of Creation: Double bonuses, take damage
    6: Versitile Performance: Sense Motive
    6: Weird Words (10x 1d8+Cha)
    6: Lore Master
    7: Stormsong: Gust of Wind
    7: Dragonfire Inspiration (+1d6 Fire per point of IC)
    8: Stormpower
    9: Stormsong (Thunder Strike)
    9: Song of the Heart (+1 to bardic music powers)
    10: Resistance Electricity 5
    11: Stormsong (Control Winds)
    11: Lingering Song
    12: Resistance Electricity 10


    Went with Lingering Song so he can pull shennanigans. He is a Wordcaster.
    Anyone with experience playing one of these, please feel free to contribute.
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    Spells Per Day
    */7/7/5/4
    Words Known:
    6/6/5/4/4

    0th: Personal*, Cone*, Selected*, Lengthy, Cramp, Decipher, Echo, Lift, Sense Magic, Boost*
    1st: Burst*, Line*, Careful, Dash, Glide, Lesser Cure, Simple, Wrack
    2nd: Accellerate, Decellerate, Discordant Note, Enhance Form, Suppress
    3rd: Barrier*, Complex Order, Damage, Dimensional Hop, Terror
    4th: Borrow Future, Purify, Servitor 4, Perfect Form

    I'm thinking a Barrier of Terror and Wrack is a pretty cool 4th level spell.

    Items:
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    4k GP: Goggles of Snowsight
    16k GP: Vest of Legends (+5 Perform, +1 Inspire)
    1,200 GP Badge of Valor 3/day +1 to Inspire
    1,500 GP Boots of the Mountain King (Ignore rough terrain)
    2,250 GP Wand of Obscuring Snow (10 Charges)
    2,050 remaining


    So he's going to start a snowstorm for backdrop, buff himself up, shout words at people for all kinds of effects. Just need mundane gear and suggestions for that last 2,050 GP.
    As always, critiques are helpful.
    Last edited by Acanous; 2012-11-10 at 10:34 AM.

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    Zombie

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    Totally just screen-shotted Slipperychiken's post about dragon "diplomacy" to post on my RP societies wall.

    I think everyone has already suggested anything relevant, but I must say I like the sound of this party and it seems remarkably similar to my evil game I'm in as an Underfolk Gravetouch'd Ghoul Ranger.

    Particularly the bit about ransacking a town they were supposed to protect.

    Except it was a city... and we TPW'd trying to retrieve the soul of our NPC companion shadow-dragon who lost his soul to the Deck of Many Things (and appeared in a silver dragon's treasure trove on the elemental plane of air) , and ended up being res'd a week later by a rather un-amused guild leader, only to find the city had been wiped from the face of the earth by a Gold dragon and her army of crusaders. Oops.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    I try not to have too much happen off-screen, and when I do, there's IC warnings about it. Like the bard they're currently up against, was sicced on them because of the incident with the troll-poaching/enslaving on the moon. C/G Bard tracking them down to stop the slave ring? Yeah.
    They got some scry-saves. Months in game before the guy managed to actually pin them down. Now they're in a room with only one exit, this guy^ blocking it, and a snowstorm all 'round him.

    I'm assuming Dragonfire Inspiration/Inspire Courage applies to each instance of Weird Words. In which case it's an arsebucket of damage.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dovahkiin

    I was there, and personally watched as the party was about to flip the table over the incident. But I'll let Acanous tell it.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

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