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    Default Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    1. Introduction

    Welcome ladies and gentlemen (and their awakened animal couterparts or even extraterrestial beings who happen upon this thread). A long time ago I read the book about magicusers and truenamers and was incredibly disappointed when I saw that truenaming actually sucked. hard. so disappointed i threw truenaming aside in pursuit of better classes (like my two favorites the Bard and the Warlock) but the truenaming thing always stuck to the back of my head. Oh the longing for a system where the mastery of language trylu mattered.

    But then came Skyrim. Where the hero of the hour fought dragons and used their very weapons against them. Where language really is about knowledge (and having enough dragonsouls to employ them) and skill. It filled my head with hope again, but alas it's not a system for DnD 3.5 (my first tabletop system ever played). Until recently I saw a thread on someone who wanted to build Dovahkiin for a game, and there it went. Fusion in my frain took the Truenamer and Thuúm and fused them together into an idea that would actually work quite right.

    So here it is, a homebrew on discarding truespeak and gaining Thu'um. I wish you happy shouting at your table and earplugs for your gamingbuddies

    2. Meta-information

    This is not about how Truenamers suck. If you want to know how truenamers suck, seek out Zaq and try to understand while still keeping your ability to taste ice-cream. This homebrew will be all about the Thu'um of Dovahkiin and how to employ the system in your game. Before everyone starts to comment I'd first like to reserve a few posts so I don't tun out of space and can deliver a nicely structured homebrew. this homebrew will discuss the following points:
    • the resource system
    • effects
    • adapting through classes
    • fluff
    • balance (I will need your help with this)


    3. About Thu'um

    Thu'um is the language of dragons. By speaking Thu'um you conjure magical effects dpeneding on what you say. In game mechanics this means that saying the word 'Fus' conjures a force. IN Skyrim you can unlock 3 levels of power for every concept, counted by syllables. For force that means Fus can go up to Fus-Ro-Dah, each syllable increasing the power of the conjured force. In terms of DnD mechanics it seems as if the added syllables are a form of empowering and maximizing the effects of the word.

    Other words (like the word Iiz for ice form) don't so much get empowered or maximised, but get harder to resist and persist longer in effects, much like the heighten en persistent spell metamagic. There are many more words and effects each usning it's own form of metalanguage to strengthen the effect of the word.

    However, with stronger shouts come longer cooldowns.

    4. Resource system

    Different options exist for cooldowns or resourcesystems to be used. Below I will first adress the cooldown aspect (or the I-can't-really-do-this-at-will-all-the-time-aspect). Later on I will adress the windup of using shouts (a.k.a. the action economy).

    4.1. Cooldowns
    Cooldowns are an importaint aspect of Skyrim. The problem is that cooldowns don't really work that well in DnD given that most combats don't really go beyond 5 rounds (and that is pushing it). So come the question: Should a shout only be used once per day like a wizards prepared spells? Or should he be able to use them once per encounter? Or like a breathweapon? By spending points like psionics?

    Prepare your vocal chords!
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    This is how Jack Vance would have devised it. In the mornign you wake up, get dressed and practice your voice like a singer would to prepare certain shouts to be used. You ahve with you your phrasebook like a highschooler learning French, Spanish or any other language and prepare as if you have a test today, filling brainsells (or 'slots') with phrases. Once used you can't use it again, unless you have prepared the same shout in another slot.

    Advantages: easy to balance, challenges the player to be creative with the shouts he/she has prepared.

    Disadvantages: some shouts are more useful (on a meta level) then others. so in effects it's hard to balance. And how to handle the added syllables? levels? How many slots are ok to use? Phrasebook? Really? A dictionary as greatest possession?


    Practice makes perfect
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    have you read Tome of Battle? the you know this one. this is the maneuver system. You know a lot of cool moves, but you need to meditate to be able to execute them. Once you have used a cool move you can't use it for the remainder of the encounter unless you spend some time concentrating on refreshing your moves.

    Advantages: flexible. reusable when needed, limiting of instawin moves usable per encounter. not limiting what you can do on a day.

    disadvantages: Which recollection to use: Warblades? Swordsages? Crusaders? or a custom one? What woudl govern how many you know?
    Multiple encounters per day don't actually tire out the player unless you target a situation he hasn't prepared for.


    "hey, where has my manabar gone?"
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    Like the sorcerer or the psion. You have a certain collection of resourcepoints/free slots and you can spend them on Thu'um uses. Higher level Thu'um or more syllables use more or more powerful resources. Quite balanced? or is it?

    Advantages: no unlimited uasages a day. You can go out of resources while an encounter is underway. You can choose to put more effort into some encounters then others, basically allowing your prowess throughout the day like a businessman

    Disadvantages: Some words can wreck someone instantly. Supercharge them and even a god would cower. (see mailman or psion shenanigans). How many resources are enough? What would the costs be? How reasonable is to just allow someone to use his win button over and over again?


    "legend-wait for it... ...Dary!"
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    An actual cooldown. it does exist in DnD. Much like the breathweapons, you'll need to roll the cooldown to know when you can use your breathweapon again. Stronger Thu'um will have bigger cooldown dice, more syllables would add flat rounds to cooldowns.

    Advantages: it is actually quite logical to use, even Skyrim uses it. though for another reason then DND uses it. In videogames (most notably games with RPG elements) cooldowns are an easy way to simulate a fatigue effect. You'll need to wait until you can do that trick again. Using resources like mana (spellslots) is a similar technique, It's the only way to stop PC's from going "LOL set everything on fire!" or spamming other stuff.

    Disadvantages: You might just be able to shout only once while it could just be your main schtick during combat. It's also very limiting the concept.


    Out of these options my preference goes out to the "Practice makes perfect" (or, ToB method) with recovery to take a full round, concentration against damage when interrupted (like when a wizard needs to keep up his casting while attacked). It gives the feel of abundancy, while nudging to use different shouts and giving the illusion of depletable resources. With this kind of mechanic dovahkiin would seem like a mix of warblade and warlock, the bladelock so you will
    4.2. action economy
    So, during a turn you have various actions:
    • Free (like talking)
    • Immedeate (like a response, uses swift action for the next turn)
    • Swift (once per turn)
    • Move (1 per turn)
    • Standard action (1 per turn)
    • Full round action (+5 ft. step, 1move+1std./2move, including free actions and 1 swift action)

    the funny thing is, you can use any action in the same manner if you spend your action lower on the list. for instance: using a standardaction to move, swift as a standard action, etc.

    Now, in Skyrim using Thu'um takes some time. but since som concentration is involved (you need to speak the words and focus your will through them) it would take more time then just talking. In skyrim this is solved by adding some sort of casttime. typically it's 1-2 seconds. This would lead me to believe that using Thu'um is typically a swift action. this would clash however with the action economy where you could breath fire down your enemies' throat and whacking him with a full attack. Besides, if you try to improve the Thu'um by adding syllables (lvls 2 and 3 of the word) you take longer.

    So for balancing purposes (as well as a tiny bit of realism) I'm going with 1 syllable (lvl1 shout) -> swift action, 2 syllables (lvl 2 shout)-> as move or standard action, lvl 3 shout -> full round action. Before people tend to go shouting incoherently at the start of combat, 1 shout per person, per round.

    obviously shouting doesn't seem attractive (especially the higher lvl ones) now, but with feats and/or classfeatures you can shout quicker and more frequently. Besides, the lvl 1 shouts will be hardly noticable at a certain level, while the higher level shouts will be much stronger.
    *this part is done for now. PEACH pls, more will follow in the posts below*
    Last edited by Socratov; 2012-11-02 at 05:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    5. Shouts


    Area of Effect shouts
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    {table=head]{colsp=4}Fire Breath
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shouter lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    YOL|1st|REF|1d6+1/shouterlvl Fire damage as ray 15 ft.
    TOOR|6th|REF|1d6/shouterlvl Fire damage as line 30 ft.
    SHUL|12th|REF|2d6/shouterlvl Fire damage as cone 45 ft.
    [/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=4}Frost Breath
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    FOH|1st|REF|1d6+1/shouterlvl Cold damage as ray
    KRAH|6th|REF|1d6/shouterlvl Fire damage as line 30 ft.
    DIIN|12th|REF|2d6/shouterlvl Fire damage as cone 45 ft.
    [/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=4}Unrelenting Force
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    Fus|2nd|N/A|1d4+1/shouterlvl force damage as ray 15 ft.
    ROH|7th|N/A|1d4/shouterlvl force damage as line 30 ft.
    DAH|14th|N/A|2d4/shouterlvl force damage as cone 45 ft.
    [/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=3}Aura Whisper
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Effects

    LAAS|2nd|Detect Magic as the spell, swift action to keep up
    YAH|5th|Detect hostile creatures including number HD within 2ft/shouterlvl, costs a swift action to keep up
    NIR|9th|Detect Thoughts as the spell, costs swift action to keep up
    [/table]


    Targeted Shouts
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    {table=head]{colsp=4}Dismay
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    FAAS|2nd|WILL|Frightened for remainder of encounter
    RU|5th|WILL|Panicked for remainder of encounter
    MAAR|7th|WILL|cowering for remainder of encounter
    [/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=4}Ice Form
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    IIS|2nd|FORT|Dazed for 3 rounds
    SLEN|5th|FORT|Stunned 3 rounds
    NUS|7th|FORT|Stunned and Prone for 5 rounds
    [/table]


    Self Targeted shouts
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    {table=head]{colsp=3}Elemental Fury
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Effects

    SU|4th|Haste as the spell for 2 rounds
    GRAH|8th|Haste as the spell for Shouterlvl/2 rounds
    DUN|14th|+20 movement & Haste as the spell, for shouterlvl/2 rounds
    [/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=3}Slow Time
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Effects

    TIID|5th|Extra standard action effective immeadeately
    KLO|10th|Extra Round after the current round
    UL|15th|Extra 2 rounds after the current round
    [/table]
    This Shout can not be recovered during an encounter. This shout can only be used once either whole or in part.



    Utility shouts
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    {table=head]{colsp=3}Clear the Skies
    Syllable(s)
    |
    Shout lvl
    |
    Targeted Save
    |
    Effects

    LOK|1st|as spell|Gust of Wind as per the spell
    VAK|6th|as spell|Capricious Zephyr as per the spell
    KOOR|10th|N/A|Summon Zephyr
    [/table]

    Last edited by Socratov; 2012-11-21 at 02:38 AM.

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    6. Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Focused Style
    Prerequisites:
    • Must be able to use shouts
    • this feat can be gained only once
    • must be at least ECL 10

    Benefits:
    This feat allows you to specialise in a certain type of shouts (Targeted, Area of Effect, Buff, Debuff, utility). But when this feat is gained you choose 2 types of shouts you cannot use after gaining this shout.

    the benefit of the chosen type of shouts is a reduction in actionuse: lvl 1 becomes a free action, lvl 2 becomes a swift action, lvl 3 becomes a moveaction. This feat will not allow you to use multiple shouts in a turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ventriloquism
    Prerequisites:
    • Must be able to use shouts
    • this feat can be gained only once
    • must know at least 2 shouts of the same type (Targeted, Area of Effect, Buff, Debuff, utility)
    • Shouterlvl of 11 or higher

    Benefits:
    This feat allows you to use two shouts of the same type and the same level at the same time. The two shouts will utilise one actiontype longer then the shout normally would use (for example: a lvl 1 would normally use a swift action, by use of this feat 2 lvl 1 shouts of the same type would use a move action).
    Quote Originally Posted by Linguistic Study
    Prerequisites:
    • Must have at least 3 hitdice
    • Shouterlvl of 1 or higher

    Benefits:
    This feat allows you to choose a shout and the ability to use it as if you had gained the shout through advancement of a Thu'um user class. Select any shout for which you meet the prerequisite. If you have Thu'um user levels, this shout becomes one of your shouts known. If you do not have Thu'um user levels, you can use this maneuver once per encounter as a Thu'um user with a shouter level equal to 1/2 your character level. If you do not have Thu'um user levels when you take this feat, and you later gain a level in a class that grants shouts known, these new shouts can only be used once per encounter and have no recovery method. If you later gain levels in a Thu'um user class, you use the recovery method for shouts learned a a result of those class levels, and your previous shouts (gained through this feat or through prestige class levels) do too gain a recovery method. when the recoverymethod is gained the player must decide wether to keep the current recoverymethod or to use the new recoverymethod. Once chosen this cannot be changed.
    Still under construction. If you really can't wait or have suggestions, please comment below.
    Last edited by Socratov; 2012-11-02 at 06:20 AM.

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    7. Shoutcasters

    Or: classes that are focused on shouting (or at least very proficient in them)
    *under contruction*
    7.1. Greybeard[Base class]
    Greybeard of High Hrothgar
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Class Ability

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Class Ability

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Class Ability

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Class Ability

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Class Ability

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Class Ability

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Class Ability

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Class Ability

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Class Ability

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Class Ability

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Class Ability

    12th|
    +6
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Class Ability

    13th|
    +6
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Class Ability

    14th|
    +7
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Class Ability

    15th|
    +7
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Class Ability

    16th|
    +8
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Class Ability

    17th|
    +8
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Class Ability

    18th|
    +9
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Class Ability

    19th|
    +9
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Class Ability

    20th|
    +10
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Class Ability[/table]

    Crunch
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    ]
    • HD: d4
    • Skillpoints/lvl: 2+int
    coming soon...

    Fluff
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    Up in the mountains are wize men, learned individuals who from a scholarly perspective study the Thu'um. By years of practice they master the language spoken by dragons. They live in High Hrothgar, a monastery on the snow white top of Hrothgar Mountain. It's cold environment provides nothing but harship to these people. They are truly the disciplined scholars.

    Notes
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    Skyrim is a truly harsh place. Even the scholars have a good fort save. They are, however, anything but athletic. and students of the language means a crisp mind so the saves are easily explained. My idea for the greaybeards was to have them be wizards, but of language instead of arcane effects. they will be granted a greater choice of powers then other classes and thus gain a great variability. It stands to reason that there where is study, there is intelligence as a main ability.


    7.2. Shoutwarrior[Base class]
    Dovahkiin
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Class Ability

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Class Ability

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Class Ability

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Class Ability

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Class Ability

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Class Ability

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Class Ability

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Class Ability

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Class Ability

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Class Ability

    11th|
    +11
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Class Ability

    12th|
    +12
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Class Ability

    13th|
    +13
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Class Ability

    14th|
    +14
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Class Ability

    15th|
    +15
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Class Ability

    16th|
    +16
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Class Ability

    17th|
    +17
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Class Ability

    18th|
    +18
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Class Ability

    19th|
    +19
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Class Ability

    20th|
    +20
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Class Ability[/table]

    Crunch
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    • HD: D12
    • Skillpoints/lvl: 6+int
    coming soon

    Fluff
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    In the cold hard lands of Skyrim once in an era a person is born with the soul of a dragon. No matter what race he is, he will have a natural disposition to speaking the language of dragons and with it conjure effects like breathing fire or ice. Kin of the dragons he is called Dovahkiin!

    Notes
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    Dovahkiin is a warrior. He hits hard, is physically amazing (should focus on weaponized combat) and uses shouts to supplement his fighting. he can't use as many shouts as a greybeard, nor as varied, but he can sue them to great effect. Dovahkiin in TES is usually built on skills. He gets out here and I think he shoudl be able to at least use some skills, even when he dumps intelligence, else it wouldn't have that TES feel.


    7.3. Dragon[Prestige Class]

    and they are indeed still (mostly) figments of my imagination
    Last edited by Socratov; 2012-11-07 at 05:58 AM.

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    Reserved post #4 I think at least this one is still neccessary

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    Reserved #5 This is for good measure

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done

    Reserved #6: I may be needing this one. But now feel free to post if you want to help or have thoughts about this type of stuff.

    Baubles for Blackwing!

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    It's been done. As a general rule I suggest learning from those who went before.
    Other words (like the word Iiz for ice form) don't so much get empowered or maximised, but get harder to resist and persist longer in effects, much like the heighten en persistent spell metamagic. There are many more words and effects each usning it's own form of metalanguage to strengthen the effect of the word.
    Assuming you intend to keep somewhat in line with existing standards of duration, extending shouts will be almost entirely useless while persisting them will be incredibly overpowered. Alternate bonus option: Extending will be seen as the minimum level of actual competence and persisting will still be completely overpowered.
    concentration against damage when interrupted (like when a wizard needs to keep up his casting while attacked)
    This will largely keep Your dovakhin out of melee, which is odd since that's kind of the most common combat style in the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    the funny thing is, you can use any action in the same manner if you spend your action lower on the list. for instance: move as a standard action, swift as a standard action, etc.
    This actually isn't true. Each round you can choose to gain either a full round action, a standard and move action or two move actions and you get a swift action regardless.
    This would lead me to believe that using Thu'um is typically a swift action. this would clash however with the action economy where you could breath fire down your enemies' throat and whacking him with a full attack.
    I don't see how this would clash with the action economy, it's the standard system for battle blessing paladins and many other gishes.
    So for balancing purposes (as well as a tiny bit of realism) I'm going with 1 syllable (lvl1 shout) -> swift action, 2 syllables (lvl 2 shout)-> as move or standard action, lvl 3 shout -> full round action. Before people tend to go shouting incoherently at the start of combat, 1 shout per person, per round.
    This will develop into 3 distinct build styles. 'Full Casters' who use level 3 shouts almost exclusively. 'Gishes' who use level 1 shouts almost exclusively. And 'Gestalts' who, as the name suggests will exist largely in gestalt games and will use level 2 shouts as move actions almost exclusively(Outside of gestalt they could exist by using wands with their standard actions I guess. Or maybe as martial adepts). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's something to be aware of.
    obviously shouting doesn't seem attractive (especially the higher lvl ones) now, but with feats and/or classfeatures you can shout quicker and more frequently. Besides, the lvl 1 shouts will be hardly noticable at a certain level, while the higher level shouts will be much stronger.
    How attractive shouting is will depend entirely on how good the shouts are, the action economy is secondary at the moment.

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    I like the idea of it costing higher tiers of action in order to manage a higher tier shout. The shout system should probably be tied to some kind of in-game bar, though, like spellcasting or maneuvers.
    I can see this actually working fairly well with feats.
    Example:

    You are a level one human fighter, and can take up to three! feats without even dipping into flaws.
    You look through the Tome of Thu'um, and see "Hey, I can take the Fus feat, and both improvements!"
    Ok, so now your lv. 1 Human Fighter can Fus-ro-Dah. But that's the only one he knows. Alternatively, he could take Fus and Iiz and upgrade one of the two.

    Because it costs a higher kind of action per, it can be done without a level gate on the shout improvements. I'm assuming here, though, that the damage from shouts would be based on hit die.

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    It's been done. As a general rule I suggest learning from those who went before.
    thanks for those, I couldn't find them with the serach function down (and they didn't appear in the first 4 pages, so...)
    Assuming you intend to keep somewhat in line with existing standards of duration, extending shouts will be almost entirely useless while persisting them will be incredibly overpowered. Alternate bonus option: Extending will be seen as the minimum level of actual competence and persisting will still be completely overpowered.
    Well, I meant persistence as in prolonging the effect. this would not make a general rule, but more like " If you persist this shout it will ater the shouts duration to X [timeunits]" Not like "persist this shout for the whole day" or something (except maybe for detect life/magic/what have you)
    This will largely keep Your dovakhin out of melee, which is odd since that's kind of the most common combat style in the game.
    depends on the shouts that he picks. If he picks buffs he can take a round or 2 to buff himself with shouts (or use swift to buff his next attack for something) and melee for the rest. Another thing is to give options to melees other then *beat with metal stick of any variaty*, granting a supplementary set of abilites which may or may not come in handy
    This actually isn't true. Each round you can choose to gain either a full round action, a standard and move action or two move actions and you get a swift action regardless.
    I think i havent stated it clear enough, for instance, you can take a full round action to use a standard action nothing but stupidity prevents you from that... But I'll make the section more fool proof

    I don't see how this would clash with the action economy, it's the standard system for battle blessing paladins and many other gishes.
    imagine a character getting a lvl 3 shout. he charges, dishes out much damage, and on top of that shouts a lvl 3 shout to the face. that would make shouts a bit unbalanced (als take away the need to choose the lvl1, 2 or 3 variant). I intend to make the lvl 3 shouts nearly as strong as spells (and maybe jsut a bit stronger when they take a full round, depending on effect)
    This will develop into 3 distinct build styles. 'Full Casters' who use level 3 shouts almost exclusively. 'Gishes' who use level 1 shouts almost exclusively. And 'Gestalts' who, as the name suggests will exist largely in gestalt games and will use level 2 shouts as move actions almost exclusively(Outside of gestalt they could exist by using wands with their standard actions I guess. Or maybe as martial adepts). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's something to be aware of.
    well, it's actually what I indeed intend to do, besides tgiving options to the fighter where he can gish it up a bit without needing a specific build. I also don't see mages going for shouts since they ahve spells allready (except for shouts that are somehow stronder then spells or more versatile)
    How attractive shouting is will depend entirely on how good the shouts are, the action economy is secondary at the moment.
    true, were it not that melees often have actions left (most notably swift and free actions) when all they ever do is move, attack or full attack. it's a gap I 'd like to fill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acanous View Post
    I like the idea of it costing higher tiers of action in order to manage a higher tier shout. The shout system should probably be tied to some kind of in-game bar, though, like spellcasting or maneuvers.
    as of now manuevers are the first mechanic to explore, but I don't expect it to end there and maybe use the breathweapon route or PP. I think a vancian system wouldn't really work out that well...
    I can see this actually working fairly well with feats.
    Example:

    You are a level one human fighter, and can take up to three! feats without even dipping into flaws.
    You look through the Tome of Thu'um, and see "Hey, I can take the Fus feat, and both improvements!"
    Ok, so now your lv. 1 Human Fighter can Fus-ro-Dah. But that's the only one he knows. Alternatively, he could take Fus and Iiz and upgrade one of the two.
    well, I'll make it so you can't get lvl 3 at the start, that would inflate power greatly. I think it is best mirrorred to manuevers and have non-shouting classes some delay in shout abilities
    Because it costs a higher kind of action per, it can be done without a level gate on the shout improvements. I'm assuming here, though, that the damage from shouts would be based on hit die.
    some would, some wouldn't and most notably some would have limits. but HD will factor into the equation (like the manuever system). the shouts themselves are still in the early stages of development though...

    thank you for the critique thusfar, it will all add to a great piece of homevrew (i hope)
    Last edited by Socratov; 2012-11-02 at 05:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    Bit of a bump, but I have added some shouts. I find it hard to balance the values and levels.

    On the one hand it's at the same levels as a wizard gets them, though they might not be as powerful. Second it is because they can only be used once per encounter (or sometimes once per day for the teleport/planeshift that is incoming). I'd like you to tell me when a shout is imbalanced and how to adress that problem (and if you woudl indulge me in a friendly manner please).

    More shouts are on their way, but they take time since I have to do some formatting in a .txt before I can publish them and because some effects are stronger in DnD 3.5 while weak in Skyrim and vice versa.

    You will notice that some shouts have a description referring to a spell, that is correct, since I'm too lazy to completely reinvent the circle when I'm trying to reinvent the wheel

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    Hm... well your status-inflicting shouts are better than all of your damage-inflicting shouts. I suggest not actually tying yourself to skyrim, and making shouts with low effects like shaken or +10 movement speed or entangled, and scaling those up. Haste, Daze, and Frighten are just stupidly good.

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    Default Re: Truespeak as it should have been done *in progress*

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Hm... well your status-inflicting shouts are better than all of your damage-inflicting shouts. I suggest not actually tying yourself to skyrim, and making shouts with low effects like shaken or +10 movement speed or entangled, and scaling those up. Haste, Daze, and Frighten are just stupidly good.
    hm... you've got a point there. However, damage can ramp up quickly by levels (up to a handful of d6's), and after a certain time people will have countermeasure against crowd control. I do think that tweaking the numbers could potentially balance things out more. I'll keep it in the back of my head when I have more shouts. (then I can think about shoutprogression vor the classes

    Also, keep in mind that shouts are generally once per encounter and if a party encounters a single strong enemy and he/she/it fails the save then it's supposed to be bad for the enemy.

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