Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 55
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chained Birds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Greetings Playgrounders,

    I was just wondering what everyone else thought about the 3rd party base class stuff that can be found on the Pathfinder SRD? I'm not the best judge of 3rd Party classes so I wanted to hear some insight from the rest of the community based on the following 3 Questions.

    The Questions
    - Is it playable? As in, can the class be played from lvl 1-20 without there being any obvious destructive qualities of the class that makes it virtually unplayable; or can the class just explode at one point and overshadow everything because of some very horribly worded or designed aspect.
    - What Tier would you Classify it? Referring to the Tier List from 3.5, but pretty much is it?
    Tier 1 (Wizard) / Tier 2 (Sorcerer) / Tier 3 (Alchemist) / Tier 4 (Rogue) / Tier 5 (Fighter)
    - Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC? This might be more of a preference thing, but if you would be running or playing in a campaign where this class's tier and abilities would fall in with the rest of the party's parameters, would you use it?

    List of PF 3rd Party Classes (Thanks to eggs for the table)


    [SIDE NOTE]Oh, and if you were wondering why the Psionic Stuff isn't here, it's because the PF community has already established how well made the classes are and further indulgence into the matter seems a bit unless. So, PF Psionics appears to be a Hit![/SIDE NOTE]
    Last edited by Chained Birds; 2012-11-05 at 03:20 PM.
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

    Unfortunately, by November 12th of this year, I will be gone for at least 8-9 weeks. Apologies to all active games I am in.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Starscream's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Elyria, Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Can't access the srd at work, so I can only go off memory, but I know I took a look at the Artificer and found it to be underwhelming compared to the 3.5 Eberron version.

    It was weird. It had an odd number of skill points per level (5 I think?) which is unheard of. And probably should have had a d8 HD, not d6.

    It also had an ability called "salvage", which lets you break down a magic item and get the money that it cost to craft (not xp, since PF doesn't use xp to craft). But since the cost to make an item is equal to half its price, and that's the amount you can usually sell stuff for anyway, I don't see the point unless you can't find a buyer for some reason. And you can only use this "money" (you don't literally suck a pile of gold out of a wand) on other crafting, making it arguably less useful than just selling it, as you get the same amount of cash but are limited in its use.

    I think there were some other odd things, but I don't remember. Overall, not as good as 3.5s, but that one was a Tier 1, so maybe a power reduction is a good idea.

    Is it playable?
    I think so, just odd and not very balanced.

    What Tier would you Classify it? Referring to the Tier List from 3.5, but pretty much is it?
    Maybe 3, maybe worse. I think I recall it having some metamagic powers as well, and those might be powerful, but I don't remember the details.

    Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC?
    I think I would allow it, but I don't think it would appeal very much as a player.
    Last edited by Starscream; 2012-11-01 at 12:02 PM.
    How to Play Rogues Properly:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Like this:

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    That actually has a huge amount of value in any campaign where you are away from civilization for an extended period or if the magical bazaar is restricted by the DM. By strict money=cost comparisons as presented in the books it has no value what-so-ever; but, what about if the item in question is so over-sized it isn't worth carrying in your Bag of Holding/Portable Hole? EX. A titan's magic hammer. You can use salvage to effectively shrink the hammer to a medium sized weapon with exactly the same properties given sufficient time.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Starscream's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Elyria, Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuaqchi View Post
    That actually has a huge amount of value in any campaign where you are away from civilization for an extended period or if the magical bazaar is restricted by the DM. By strict money=cost comparisons as presented in the books it has no value what-so-ever; but, what about if the item in question is so over-sized it isn't worth carrying in your Bag of Holding/Portable Hole? EX. A titan's magic hammer. You can use salvage to effectively shrink the hammer to a medium sized weapon with exactly the same properties given sufficient time.
    I wouldn't call the ability useless, merely far more limited in use than the 3.5 ability it is replacing. It's useful conditionally; if an item is too big to transport efficiently, can't be sold, and the group agrees that they rather have those resources to craft new items than for any other purpose, then yes it is handy. But the exact same thing can be said of the 3.5 artificer's equivalent ability, and that has the added advantage of rewarding you with a unique resource; there is no other way of turning items into xp. Turning items into gold is something everyone already has a way of doing 99% of the time. Heck, a good bluff/appraise/diplomacy check can sometimes get you more than the crafting cost of an item through haggling, and you can use that gold for anything.
    How to Play Rogues Properly:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Like this:

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Well I guess I'll start with the first one.

    Adept Godling- Miss - Awkward class with a low optimization floor and a high optimization ceiling. It has lots of abilities that are meh on the surface, but very breakable.

    It's a caster class that grants 1st to 6th level spells and you have to pick a class list to emulate so your casting 6th level spells from a list like cleric or wizard at level 16 and that's the limit of your arcane power. So you don't get over level spells like most 1-6 casters do, unless you take the list of a 1-6 caster like bard or summoner then you could get some wizard/cleric 9's at level 16.

    It actually doesn't call out base class so you could make a Adept that casts from a PrC list opening up all kinds of broken. Then there's the minor Ascendency Attuned Mystisism which let's you pick a creature type and have spells effect it that normally affect another type so you could get level 4 Dominate Person from the Bard list and effectively turn it into Dominate Monster at level 10.

    Then there's the Major Ascendencies of Dual casting (cast two standard action spells as a full round action) and Immortal Invocation (cast higher level spells out of lower level slots) Immortal Invocation is based on a concentration check that can't be modified by items or spells but this could get you 9's if you picked a casting class with a full progression to emulate( I think). Dual casting doesn't have this restriction and requires a concentration check and that the spells both be under 1/4 caster level, but you could easily get enough concentration/caster level to freely double cast any spells you want every round.

    Oh, you can also have any casting stat so take Con any pump it into the stratosphere for HP, shoring up it's one bad save and optimizing Concentration checks.

    It's a big ol' messy pile of meh that can be easily be made an awkward tier one with a few cheesy choices that are mostly internal to the class.

    Edit: Another mark against it, the tier one builds will be the weakest until it picks up a Major Ascendency to end up tier 1 you have to pick a tier 1 list rather tan a 1-6 list with some under level spells and level from 1 to 13 with Bard type access to the wizard, cleric or druid list.
    Last edited by Hand_of_Vecna; 2012-11-01 at 12:39 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    There is a lot of potential for abuse in a lot of those classes, but I will say that while they look overpowered, they really are not that bad on average.

    Artificer still gets 9's from multiple sources. That pretty much defines tier 1. Dragon rider is fine if you do not allow multiclassing. If you do its broken as hell. Dragon rider 1 / wizard 19 gives you the same dragon as a 17 dragon rider. Overall it fits firmly in tier 3, but mixing in other classes can break it fast... perhaps call it a 1 level t2 dip.
    Eldritch godling, same issues as adept godling except it gets full spell casting. In play the biggest issue I saw with it was you REALLY do not want to prc out, even for something like incantatrix. Overall its t1, and probably a bit more powerful than sorc/wiz (you can use a minor ascendency to get a domain added to class spell list, and can use it more than once).
    Warlord - t3, but I'd move it up to t2 if you pick up leadership, landlord, and similar feats. One of the few mundanes that can, imho, be considered a true t2. Having said that, its a blast to play if you like the rp of being a bit, um, full of yourself.
    Last edited by AdamT; 2012-11-01 at 07:42 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chained Birds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    The spellcasting Godlings were the ones I had the most trouble with as they were pretty powerful with the ability to gain whatever spells they wanted to go for essentially; especially that whole prestige class nonsense if a DM allowed them to (I wouldn't).

    I once tested the Artificer and found that I could make a gun that could shot off 3-4 Magic Missiles simultaneously at an enemy 3 times a day at lvl 7. This was pretty awesome for me at the time because I could technically keep on using the thing as long as I could do a UMD Check that got progressively more difficult to pass. I learned that the class was changed up with some better wordings and a few erratas. Still seems like a solid Tier 2-3 but not tier 1 like its 3.5 predecessor.

    Edit: I'll bump the Artificer to Tier 2 for now. Unless anyone seems it should be higher or lower on the list.

    Warlord at least looks fun to play. Like a Mundane Bard. Will put him at Tier 3 and definitely a Hit.

    Dragonrider has always left me feeling a bit uneasy. The companion is something that many classes have to wait until at least the mid-levels to obtain, and it is one of the few PF classes that is begging for a 1 lvl Dip. I'll put it at Tier 3 with Warlord, but unlike the Warlord, I'm giving it a Miss.
    Last edited by Chained Birds; 2012-11-01 at 08:09 PM.
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

    Unfortunately, by November 12th of this year, I will be gone for at least 8-9 weeks. Apologies to all active games I am in.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    roguemetal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    I've combed through the 4 Winds 3rd party stuff and haven't had good reactions to it.

    Apprentice - The Apprentice is a one-level core class that functionally destroys multiclass balance. They choose two OTHER core classes and for feats, prestige classes, level-dependent class features, spells known, and spells per day they count as BOTH classes. This is far too abusable, the +0 BAB and saves does not balance it out.
    Is it playable? No, absolutely not. It has one level and is horribly unbalanced.
    What Tier would you Classify it? Tier? You can't even place it, it has only 1 level, which is more like two levels of two other classes... Tier 0?
    Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC? No.

    Gladiator - The Gladiator just barely makes it onto the spectrum by being a Fighter with less options and all the wrong ones, but then bumps themselves up with a fairly abusable mechanic of adjusting the price of items according to their Reputation ability. The abiltiy sadly scales with level only, and doesn't become useful til level 20 and wouldn't be really good until epic levels, and is otherwise a negative.
    Is it playable? Yes, although barely, and the progression is strange and feels weak.
    What Tier would you Classify it? Tier 5, assuming the character lives long enough to capitalize on their Reputation.
    Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC? Yes, though I would recommend against it.

    Schooled Bard - Pretty close to the same as a traditional bard, some useful and other less than inspiring abilities depending on 'Bardic School' but it balances out.
    Is it playable? Yes, easily.
    What Tier would you Classify it? 3, same as Bard.
    Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC? Yeah, sure, it's just a rip-off Bard.

    Voyageur - The voyageur is a class devoted to going down rivers in a canoe. Everything revolves around the canoe and most things they do could be better accomplished by being a pure ranger or rogue.
    Is it playable? No, it has less useful abilities and feats than a fighter, and only 4+int skills with no casting.
    What Tier would you Classify it? Tier 7.
    Would you allow the class as a DM or want to Play it as a PC? No. If a player chooses this class I know they're looking for a joke class. That's all this is.
    Last edited by roguemetal; 2012-11-01 at 09:30 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    gr8artist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Homebrew
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    I'm in a game now with a Magister and a Timethief, both level 6.
    So far, neither is seeming overpowered or too weak. The time-thief is useless in combat at this level, but it's a skill monkey so whatever.
    No idea what tier I'd put them in, but we're allowing both and see no problem with them.
    My Homebrew and Extended Signature
    ~ Current Characters ~
    A Dragon Above ~ Dubwana, the Monster, and his Unholy Rage

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Novawurmson's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    For the Archon: Tier 3. It's basically a buffed-up Duskblade, and unfortunately seems to have come out before the Magus. Most Pathfinder games should probably just use the Magus, which comes online earlier, scales a little more evenly, and has a bit more of a blasty spell list. It's certainly playable, but I'd recommend players think long and hard about why they would take it over the Magus.

    Edit: For the Armiger: Tier 4-5. This is not the tank you are looking for. True, these guys should be pretty hard to kill, but their best ability, Citadel (hard cover for all adjecent allies), can be achieved in only two levels; after that, you've got very little unique. Most of Why the Fighter is Tier 5 applies here, though 4+Int skill points helps out of combat. For a low-tier, low-magic game, the Armiger will be great; if the DM knows to throw AoEs at closely clumped PCs, you're going to be hurting fast.

    Edit: For the Bounty Hunter: Tier 4. You're basically a Ranger with full sneak attack instead of spells, an animal companion and any choices. I'm having trouble seeing where this guy would fit in: in a low optimization game, full BAB and sneak attack is going to be tearing through opponents like nobody's business; in a high optimization game, you're mostly getting the worthless parts of being a Ranger (Endurance, anyone?). Certainly playable, but think hard about why you wouldn't just play a Rogue or a Ranger first.

    Edit: I'm really enjoying this.

    For the Corbie: Tier 5-6. It's better than the Warrior, I'll give it that. You'll make all your Expert friends jealous when you get all skills as class skills at level 16. Seriously, this class would be outright broken if everyone else in your party was playing a Commoner. For a no/low magic, very low tier campaign, I can see this being playable. For anything else, I would never let a player use this class.

    Edit: For the Corsair: Tier 4. Another Full BAB, full sneak attack class with a vaguely nautical theme. Again, low optimization this is going to do lots of damage, high optimization, you're going to get bored fast as all your class gives you besides a strong base are some random feats from the CRB.
    Last edited by Novawurmson; 2012-11-02 at 02:51 PM.
    Crazed Monk avatar by Elrond.

    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Giegue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Death Mage: Tier 3. The class looks like fun, but sadly doesn't work as advertised. As a minion-focused Necromancer, it is rather poor, since it is unable to create fast zombies and lacks accessed to other important spells like desecrate. Despite being called a "death mage" you won't be rocking an undead army of the same size or quality as a cleric or Bones Oracle. So if your looking for lots of minions and like zombies, this is not your class. However, if you like all the other stuff necromancy is about, darkness, debuffing, negative energy damage ect....and don't mind just having one or two skeleton minions around instead of an army(and eschewing zombies all together because you can't make them fast) then this class will be right up your alley. A fun, though very non-traditional necromantic spellcaster that, while I think is cool, is ultimately a miss because it's such a poor minionmaster/doesn't work as advertised.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Where did you start yours?

    In one of the many palaces of the BBEG, with the PCs as his dining guests.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Novawurmson's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    For the Witch Hunter: Tier 4. This is a very well-designed and interesting class, but its usefulness depends on what "witches" it's going to be hunting. Against hags? You'll do great. Against Clerics, Witches, and Wizards? Eeeeh... you don't get flight or a way to negate flight, you don't get miss chance or a way to negate miss chance, you don't get invisibility or a way to negate invisibility (except scent, possibly, at level 10+...The witch hunter would be a great addition to a party in a world in which tier 1-2s don't exist, which isn't necessarily a bad house rule if you're looking for balance. An optimized tier 1 will stomp the witch hunter; the witch hunter can stomp an unoptimized caster. I would call it a hit for low-optimization groups and a miss for high-optimization groups.
    Crazed Monk avatar by Elrond.

    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chained Birds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8artist View Post
    I'm in a game now with a Magister and a Timethief, both level 6.
    So far, neither is seeming overpowered or too weak. The time-thief is useless in combat at this level, but it's a skill monkey so whatever.
    No idea what tier I'd put them in, but we're allowing both and see no problem with them.
    I'll wait for some more insight into these two class before I label them as being either Hit or Miss. But it is nice to hear people are having fun with the classes at least.

    @Novawurmson: Thanks for the the analysis. I knew some people would have a blast trying to figure out how good a class is.
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

    Unfortunately, by November 12th of this year, I will be gone for at least 8-9 weeks. Apologies to all active games I am in.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Armiger: I was super excited for this when I saw it granted cover to adjacent allies - melee wall time! Then I realized that 'hard' cover is not the same as TOTAL cover - i.e. the kind of cover that matters. Then I was even less excited when I saw that the rest of the class's abilities can be summed up as 'zippidy doo dah, zippidy day'. Tier 5. I'd allow it into my games only with extensive rewrites.

    Elven Archer: Yawn. Classic case of 'oh I best not make it TOO powerful' and ending up weaker than the balance point of the original thing. Trade away favoured enemy and animal companion for stuff no-one cares about and really really slow sneak attack progression (like, slower than scout skirmish) and magic arrows at the level where you've had better magic arrows for the last twenty sessions. Tier 5. Again, I wouldn't allow it in my games unless I was aiming for a really really low balance point.

    Hellenic Sorceress: I was fired up going into this. I was thinking restricted schools (maybe restricted list?) in exchange for AWESOME THEMATIC POWERS OUT OF GREEK MYTH. Kind of like the Oracle should have been. But then we get to the actual class, and it's kind of like an adept that uses the sorc/wiz list. Doesn't get higher than 6th level spells, no class features to speak of. However it does get those 6th level spells at the same rate as the regular sorcerer, and it does get higher level spell slots - just has to use lower level spells in them. Tier 3. I wouldn't allow it for reasons of GODDAMN BORING. I'd write my own crazy hellenic sorceress class.


    Machinesmith: AWesome name, and very poorly written. Working out what some of these abilities do is like decoding an overly verbose instruction manual written by someone whose native language is german. Short version: The class does very little. It's a medium caster that makes 'prototypes' of spells off a very short list, and gets to pick one of three very lacklustre 'greatworks'. Anything that would actually be useful is slammed with a 1/day proviso, and you can't mass produce anything. It seems like it wants to craft stuff, but that stuff is probably mundane items no-one cares about. It's certainly no Spark Scientos. Low tier 4. And that's only because one of the greatworks is worth about half an animal companion. I wouldn't allow this in my games, again, because it would be incredibly boring for the player.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Adding one more thing about the dragon rider. If you go dragon rider 1 / witch 19 you will literally turn into limburger. Thats not a joke either.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    I looked at the artificer & thought that it would be appropriate in a time limited campaign, but if the DM ever says you have a month or two of downtime, the artificer will suddenly be festooned with magical items. The weird science power is probably too good in such a scenario.

    Tier 1 because it really can break the game using that power, or regular item crafting. Playable or allowable in some campaigns but not others.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Vanguard: Duskblade clone, learns spells from sorc/wiz instead of restricted list, has a few anti-spell attacks and defenses that add up to basically useless, does nothing else. Boring, nothing to do with vanguarding. Miss.

    Time Thief: I was expecting something terrible, but the concept of this class is actually okay. Suffers from typical pathfinder thing though of interesting concept poor mechanical execution. The names of the abilities are cool, the actual effect is kind of meh. It ranks in at really low tier 3, largely thanks to the Steal Time temporal talent which allows you to do a sort of spring attack dealio staggering people (at a cost of one mote per use) but keeps them staggered for 1/2 your class level in rounds. Not as cool as it seems as you don't have sneak attack or anything else worthwhile to actually DO while they're staggered.

    With temporal abilities that live up to their fluff, and putting them on something other than a ridiculous per day system, this class could be a quite decent tier 3 timebending thief class, without the sneak attack or skillmonkey abilities of a rogue, but having the ability to blink in and out of the timestream, send people in and out of the timestream, make them fight their time-doubles etc.

    Hit on the concept(great ideas in the abilities etc), miss on the mechanics(abilities don't live up to their fluff at all).

    Taskshaper: Kind of a hit. I don't know why you'd want to play a tier 3 polymorpher who gets nothing else from his class, but hey, you can. It does what it sets out to do. I'm just not really sure if that's something that many people will want.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    I've made tons of NPCs from Super Genius Games stuff. I am not exaggerating when I say I've bought all of their Class PDFs. And that's because they've been all hits to me. The Godling classes get some slack from the general public for some reason (I'm imagining the name?), but they've been quite entertaining as both part time party help; and nemesis alike.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rejakor View Post
    Taskshaper: Kind of a hit. I don't know why you'd want to play a tier 3 polymorpher who gets nothing else from his class, but hey, you can. It does what it sets out to do. I'm just not really sure if that's something that many people will want.
    As a 1-level dip, that class is quite, quite broken. As a 20-level class I could have fun playing it.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chained Birds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ZDPhoenix View Post
    I've made tons of NPCs from Super Genius Games stuff. I am not exaggerating when I say I've bought all of their Class PDFs. And that's because they've been all hits to me. The Godling classes get some slack from the general public for some reason (I'm imagining the name?), but they've been quite entertaining as both part time party help; and nemesis alike.
    If you'd like to put some of your insight into the classes, I'd most appreciate it. For now, at least the Spellcaster ones, are fundamentally broken as they are not restricted on the class they can gain spells from and can easily gain access to high level spells at low levels if they choose a spell granting prestige. I wonder what the best PF Prestige choice would be for is class?

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    As a 1-level dip, that class is quite, quite broken. As a 20-level class I could have fun playing it.
    Hmm, I see your point. Full proficiency, Able to use all Spell Trigger items, 2 good saves, a free +1 on any d20 roll, and pretty much a floating feat; all make this as bad as the Dragonrider when it comes to dipping. I guess I'm going to have to get it a Miss for this as it grants way too much for 1 level which PF in general frowns upon. Seems perfectly viable for 3.5 though!
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

    Unfortunately, by November 12th of this year, I will be gone for at least 8-9 weeks. Apologies to all active games I am in.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chained Birds View Post
    If you'd like to put some of your insight into the classes, I'd most appreciate it. For now, at least the Spellcaster ones, are fundamentally broken as they are not restricted on the class they can gain spells from and can easily gain access to high level spells at low levels if they choose a spell granting prestige. I wonder what the best PF Prestige choice would be for is class?
    They do though.

    From the Mystic Godlings PDF:

    Spell List Selection: A godling casts spells
    drawn from a spell list selected when the
    character is created
    . Adept godlings may
    choose the list of any class that grants access to
    1st level spells at level 1. For eldritch godlings,
    the class must be a dedicated spellcasting class
    (one that both has access to 1st level spells at
    level 1, and that eventually receives 9th level
    spells). The godling is considered an arcane
    spellcaster if an arcane spell list is selected, and
    a divine caster if a divine list is selected. The
    selected list becomes the class spell list for that
    particular godling character.

    For what prestige would go well, I couldn't tell you. In my games, we have it house ruled that Godling characters can't prestige/multi-class; as they are descendants of great entities/gods/demi-gods, etc., proving their worth; not just mortal heroes striving for greater heights of power and grandeur.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Giegue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Priest: Tier 1. The pathfinder rendition of the cloistered cleric sucks. And not just a little. It sucks a whole lot. The cloistered cleric gives up much of it's martial ability, leading one to believe it would be built to be a caster cleric yet it's spellcasting gets reduced to a crippling degree. So then, your probably thinking....ok...so maybe it's a skill monkey? Nay to this as well, as it's skill points are only 4+int, a paltry boost compared to 3.5e's 6+ int.

    To fix this problem, we get the priest. Unlike the craptastic pathfinder take on the cloistered cleric the priest is basically an almost direct translation of the 3.5e version of the cloistered cleric into pathfinder. All the trappings of the old cloistered cleric are there. 6+ Int skills, free knowladge domain, lore ability ect... The only downside to this class is that it may be TOO good.

    You see, unlike the 3.5e cloistered cleric, which gets the same spells per-day as a cleric, the priest gets one extra domain spell of each spell level. So, it's level 1 spells per day is 1+2 instead of 1+1. Also, there is the fact that domains in pathfinder are buffed to a significant degree, giving you multiple abilities. The free knowladge domain is thus far more powerful in PF then it was in 3.5e. Add in the fact that the things the class gives up for these are identical to the sacrifices a cloistered cleric makes in 3.5e and the priest may in fact be BETTER then the cleric.

    Thus, while it is an interesting class and does the cloistered cleric in PF right in many ways, I am forced to label it a miss since, at least on paper, it looks BETTER then the cleric, and when your stronger then one of the strongest tier 1 classes in the game that in my book constitutes a miss.
    Last edited by Giegue; 2012-11-02 at 09:06 PM.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Where did you start yours?

    In one of the many palaces of the BBEG, with the PCs as his dining guests.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NamelessNPC's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Casteland, Argentina
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    Death Mage: Tier 3. The class looks like fun, but sadly doesn't work as advertised. As a minion-focused Necromancer, it is rather poor, since it is unable to create fast zombies and lacks accessed to other important spells like desecrate. Despite being called a "death mage" you won't be rocking an undead army of the same size or quality as a cleric or Bones Oracle. So if your looking for lots of minions and like zombies, this is not your class. However, if you like all the other stuff necromancy is about, darkness, debuffing, negative energy damage ect....and don't mind just having one or two skeleton minions around instead of an army(and eschewing zombies all together because you can't make them fast) then this class will be right up your alley. A fun, though very non-traditional necromantic spellcaster that, while I think is cool, is ultimately a miss because it's such a poor minionmaster/doesn't work as advertised.
    I consider it a hit for the same reasons you praise, considering that the class is nowhere (read: not in the SRD, I don't have the book) advertised as a minionmancer, but more like a debuffer. Tier 3, indeed.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Giegue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Yeah. I have the book. Payed money for it too. The book does not say that the class is JUST a minionmancer, and does specify that it can do other things beyond minionmancy. However, it does, give the impression, that taking the corpse mage will make you a good minonmancer and that the class is capiable of strong minionmancy with the right build. However, that is, in reality, not the case. Out of all the pale roads, corpse mage is one of the most lame, and undead leadership does NOT make you a "good minionmancer." For that, you would need desecrate and either remove paralysis or haste(to make fast zombies, since no zombies except fast zombies are worth animating.)...and command undead is almost a must as well. The Corpse mage lacks command undead. The corpse mage dosen't get remove paralysis/haste and desecrate added to it's spell list. Therefore, the corpse mage is rather poor as a minionmancer. It's first level ability is an utter joke. The undead leadership I admit is nice, and unless you port awaken undead to PF then a corpse mage pale road death mage is the ONLY character who can get undead with actual class levels. However, that fact dose not make up for the fact that the death mage is just inferor at making use of the animate dead spell, which is THE thing the minionmancer is all about.

    Does that mean the class is bad and unplayable? Heck no. It's a tier 3 and a solid one at that. It has good flavor. It has some nice options and is good at debuffing and doing other stuff. The shadow mage pale road is especially great, and probably the strongest of the bunch. The others except reaper mage(which seemed lackluster and rather weak to me) where all good too. It's just...when I hear the name "death mage" I think lord of undead, not shadow-weilding debuffer..and the fact that the book pushed the corpse mage pale road as being "mistaken for a necromancer" and "being able to command legions" was a big disapointment for me when I saw the spell list for the class.

    There are more factors to the "miss" department for me, though that was the biggest one. The reaper mage, I thought, was also a miss. Not as big as the corpse mage, but it just seemed weak. It gave a bunch of melee abilities to a class that really is not made for melee. If it, say, gave you cha to AC somehow or some other defensive boosts(Dread Necro-esc DR maybe?)it may be better, but as it stands the death mage is not built for melee survivability and the reaper mage pale road gives boost to melee without boosting your survivability. As a result I thought it, along with corpse mage, was also a big letdown. Finally, there is the fetish powers, which while EXTREMELY flavorful and interesting where a miss for me because many of them where very poorly worded and it took me a bit to get a handle on them. This may have been fixed on the SRD. I have not checked out the death mage entry on the SRD so I cannot say.

    However, the class is still fun, flavorful and fully playable, and I know others may disagree with me labeling it a miss and that's fine. It's just not what I think of as a "death mage"...I think if it where named something like "Black Mage" "Shadow Mage" or " Dark Mage" I would not have been as disappointed as I was.
    Last edited by Giegue; 2012-11-02 at 10:09 PM.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    Where did you start yours?

    In one of the many palaces of the BBEG, with the PCs as his dining guests.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chained Birds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ☢CAUTION☢
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Seems like a lot of love for the Death Mage, so I'll give it a Hit now due to all the positive feedback.
    Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!
    Spoiler: Characters
    Show

    Unfortunately, by November 12th of this year, I will be gone for at least 8-9 weeks. Apologies to all active games I am in.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rejakor View Post
    I have read that class multiple times, and I have no idea what it's supposed to do in combat, or what it's mechanical appeal is supposed to be at all, aside from being a combat-useless Rogue who has to blow dailies to use half its Talents.

    I've seen it in play, and it solidly fills the "waste of space" role unoptimized. In the hands of a competent user, I can see it being a good skillmonkey who nonetheless struggles in combat. Like a very heavily-nerfed Factotum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    I looked at the artificer & thought that it would be appropriate in a time limited campaign, but if the DM ever says you have a month or two of downtime, the artificer will suddenly be festooned with magical items. The weird science power is probably too good in such a scenario.

    Tier 1 because it really can break the game using that power, or regular item crafting. Playable or allowable in some campaigns but not others.
    Well, you're wrong about this.

    As written, Weird Science does [God Knows What], because every DM will houserule it differently. The sanest houserule is that you get a total number of spells in weird science devices equal to the table in the class - as that's a tier 3/4 appropriate, it fits with the rest of the class (i.e. nerfed to hell).

    But yeah, god knows what it would look like on different tables, as it doesn't actually define any parameters of what it does, just loosely defines what the artificer 'can' do, which is apparently pack as many 9th level spells as he can into a single artificer device and let loose the juice from level 1 onwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    As a 1-level dip, that class is quite, quite broken. As a 20-level class I could have fun playing it.
    You can reliably activate any item you can own as a rogue with maxed out UMD (which most rogues do buy), as an artificer, or with a dip in the appropriate class.

    Exotic Weapon Proficiency might be a big deal in a game with backwards compatibility, but PF weapons, like most pathfinder stuff, are a lot more boringtame than their 3.5 equivalents.

    And +1 is.. a +1. A certain number of times per day. I don't care, and I will never care, about that.


    Maybe in a very low op game dipping this would be 'broken'. Like, fighters with Animal Affinity low op.

    In a game with a wizard in it, this is a waste of time for any class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I have read that class multiple times, and I have no idea what it's supposed to do in combat, or what it's mechanical appeal is supposed to be at all, aside from being a combat-useless Rogue who has to blow dailies to use half its Talents.

    I've seen it in play, and it solidly fills the "waste of space" role unoptimized. In the hands of a competent user, I can see it being a good skillmonkey who nonetheless struggles in combat. Like a very heavily-nerfed Factotum.
    Yeah, that's why I said 'miss' on mechanics. It doesn't do what it's trying to do.

    The only thing it can do in combat is spend motes to stagger people (something a 3.5 rogue can do for free, albeit with shorter duration) and then go and cry in a corner when it runs out of motes. It could theoretically spend motes to grab bonuses from a bunch of different people and then have like +15 to everything. That's not.. terrible, assuming the bonuses stack (I am too lazy to go check).

    It's not a good skillmonkey, though. It doesn't get any social skills other than bluff, it doesn't get the good knowledges, it doesn't get UMD. It only gets the Thievery (search, disable device, sleight of hand, open lock, decipher script) and the Movement (tumble jump climb swim use rope etc) skills. It gets the set of THIEF skills but not the set of ROGUE skills. Which I find appropriate, but it needs some other stuff to make up for that, and it doesn't get it.

    A rewrite of the mechanics of the class that involved more stealing other people's actions, time-teleportation, rewinds, screwing with people's perceptions of the timestream, etc etc would actually be pretty playable. But as-is, it's not playable. Too much per day to even function in a tier 5 party.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NamelessNPC's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Casteland, Argentina
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Beastmaster: Tier 4, but only really because of the animal companion. Hit.

    This is kind of a mix between barbarian and ranger. It has a d12 HD, full BAB, good fort and ref, an animal companion (as the druid's, not the ranger's) and no rage. Has some weak cha based animal related bonuses (can buff them and dominate them at later levels, which is cool even if really useless) and lots those class features that usually dex based classes get (evasion, unanny dodge, fast movement, etc). I seems really cool and flavorful, a bestial feral warrior that doesn't rely on animal magic but on animal friendship! It occupies a small niche for Tarzan or Mowgli types that neither barbarian nor ranger can accomodate to.

    HOWEVER, it is a severely underpowered class. Has no heavy armor or shield proficiency, no bonus feats and very few active class features. At lvl 20 you get a second animal companion and your own herd, which as everything else, looks cool but with not many applications.

    All in all, it seems awesome for a low powered campaign, or for a boss to fight while you are lost in the forest, but hi op players beware.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zherog's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bensalem, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rejakor View Post
    Elven Archer: Yawn. Classic case of 'oh I best not make it TOO powerful' and ending up weaker than the balance point of the original thing. Trade away favoured enemy and animal companion for stuff no-one cares about and really really slow sneak attack progression (like, slower than scout skirmish) and magic arrows at the level where you've had better magic arrows for the last twenty sessions. Tier 5. Again, I wouldn't allow it in my games unless I was aiming for a really really low balance point.
    Give the arrow enhancement ability another look. You don't need to invest an initial +1 into the arrow. You could spend your +1 on, for example, flaming or bane. It's essentially a free weapon enhancement that can be changed daily to suit what you need.
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: 3rd Party Pathfinder (Hit or Miss?)

    1d6 damage is very exciting, but not really at level 9 when you already have magical arrows.

    The only real use is to get Bane (aberrations) or whatever when you know you're gonna fight nothing but aberrations all day.

    That's kind of useful.

    But very, very, very niche. All-day favoured enemy and animal companion is much, much better.

    Not that 'better' is really a word you can apply to straight ranger much of the time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •