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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    The Mind could (with permission ofc) even take full and direct control over the ground forces Battle Suits and orchestrate the combat itself. Which would be the most effective outcome.

    Of course the Culture being the Culture, odds are the people who are part of the ground forces WANT to be there to do it themselves.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    part 6.5 Orks - Finale (for the orks this time)
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    After the battle where the Necrons were dispatched with, if not ease, at least without casualties or much expended ordnance, the Orks appeared to consider the defensive teams with more respect. Or at least, wariness.

    The Ork warboss did not appear to survive the firefight, the ruins of his exoskeleton armour was found destroyed by a Necron weapon, but another ork appeared and issued a similar challenge.
    Once again, the SC agent under took this same challenge but this ork appeared less resilient than before and an effector assisted palm strike to the head killed him while negotiations were opened again with the Necron Lord.

    The attack having appeared to have failed dramatically, the Necron Lord decided that instead of allowing his technology to fall into the hands of the 'Eldar' he was going to destroy them himself.
    A series of detonations marked the beginnings of his power cores' self-destruct cycle that destroyed the lower chambers, and presumably the Necron Lord and more sensitive equipment. Some of the power cores were prevented from destabilizing after deactivation of his shields and usage of effectors to substitute for containment fields that bled the energy off to a non-explosive level. Most cores still detonated and as many Necrons were displaced to orbit as fast as possible, nevertheless all vehicles apart from one "floaty thing" and a single maintenance drone were destroyed.

    Meanwhile, the Orks on the surface were more impressed at the SC agents rapid kill (if accidental, but we did not communicate such) of the challenger ork. Reportedly, he then issued an open challenge to any other orks who wished to take him on. Some rounds were fired, all but one missed, that one was deflected by an effector field, and the SC agent shot each ork who fired upon him, this GCU aiding him in the video tracking.

    The SC agent then claimed that the observed tribal nature of the orks are not due to their primitivism and that they were a true HS with the hierarchy of power built into their society. While this GCU does not believe his claim as such, we were willing to tolerate an experiment. The SC agent forced an ork tinkerer on the pain of death to make a working Necron gun from a destroyed one, the same as IoM claims that the orks could get anything to work, which had been dismissed as xenophobic exaggeration.

    Amazingly, the ork managed to piece together a working gun, if unreliable and weak compared to proper necron weaponry. The gun has been recovered for analysis and preliminary indications seem to say the gun has absolutely nothing in common with the original Necron weapon. A similar experiment was conducted with a simple explosive powder driven weapon to similar results, only this time, the resulting weapon had no possibility of even working and would sometimes even fire without ammunition.
    The artifacts themselves are under lockdown on the planet surface. All tests were done by the orks on designated targets. No testing from us has been conducted thus far.

    We tentatively conclude from this that the orks have the ability to imbue objects with warp properties. This is an incredible find of great interest and implication for both the Culture and our stance towards the orks. This GCU believes that the Orks are an actual race capable of civilization if extensive reforming efforts are used and will treat them as such.

    However, we do note that our argument for their capabilities is only founded on extrapolations for the orks' technological instinct.
    The SC agent's position is likewise common among the crew and nearby Minds that we contacted, that the orks are irredeemable HSes with the use of weapons and undesirable oppressive power structure built into them.
    We do also note that until a full-scale multi-factor simulation of their genetic code is complete, which make take weeks or be impossible due to the lack of understanding about the warp, this is also impossible to confirm as true.

    I just thought of something. If the Culture has the orks under control on this planet, couldn't they use the orks to fashion Warp-based equipment for analysis?

    Like... a warp scanner that can detect psychic phenomena (which the Culture really REALLY want). Or basic tools that interact with the warp in some basic fashion and open up true analysis of its properties and rules.

    Admittedly, I find this attractive mostly because the thought of the Culture using the orks as a source of technology is hilarious.
    Even more ironically, only the Culture would even be able to conceive of the notion in 40k. Get technology from the orks??? =S

    But, seriously, the orks stand as something the Culture might or might not have objections using.
    Also, the IoM can't be made into slave labour without moral problems, the Eldar don't talk about it, the Necrons hate it and don't really understand it either... Chaos is out of the question. So they really have no one else to talk to.

    Enough interaction with the orks might have the Culture thinking of diverting them to the Eye of Terror.
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-07 at 12:52 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Orks can't just build anything, though. It's an instinctive behavior rather than a learned/educated one...like Jokaero, they can't be used to make items on demand. They'll build what they want, and it'll be something related to violence; weapons, armor, vehicles...a 'Weird Stuff Detectah' is boring and non-Orky, a Mek wouldn't be able to design one even if he wanted to.

    Their ability to create functional technology is powerful, but limited - and more importantly, they won't work for non-Orcs. When an Ork Mek builds something that shouldn't function but does, it'll revert to its non-functional state if it's being used by someone other than an Ork. So you might need to retcon that bit, or at least have the testing being done by an Ork captive.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Okay, let's take a basic Shoota.

    Most often, a Shoota is just an unreliable rifle or shotgun, where the Ork's psychic field simply puts telekinetic barriers in particular places, or helps the propulsion ignite in the correct way, or whatever, so that it is reliable. The Culture could simulate this by putting Effector fields in the appropriate areas to simulate the innate capacity of Orks to make their gear more reliable and able to work more often (at least in a statistically significant way; their gear still is unreliable).

    However sometimes Shootas work entirely without being able to work at all, just because the Ork expects them to work. Like they will fire without ammunition, or it isn't actually a gun, it just looks like one. It's likely that there is a mix of this sort of thing going on at any given time... and the more Orks in an area (and especially the more psychic gestalt power an Ork has to draw from), the more likely gear is to be in the latter category. So the Mad Doc and Mekboy stuff is more likely to use aspects of 'they expect it to work entirely, so it does', while the basic technology is more often 'they just make it reliable'. In fact, a given bit of technology might have a bit from column a, a bit from column b.


    As far as getting Mekboys and Mad Docs to make custom gear... that's very, very hit and miss. Both of these types are definitely mad scientist types, and, mostly... these things would require Orks to run them, or any people reverse-engineering them would have to be very, very aware of how the ork psychic gestalt expectations thing works, and even then they would only be able to make more reliable versions of things that DON'T rely on the Ork gestalt for their primary function, and only for reliability...


    Also note? The Imperium has warp scanning devices and devices that let you see into the warp. They just tend to drive you mad!

    Ones that don't need Psykers or Navigators to work (Imperium devices, I mean) include:

    Psy-Trackers (Aetherscopes)
    Psyocculum
    Prognosticator

    Here are the descriptions of Imperial tech that does this from the RPG's...

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    Psy-Tracker
    Sometimes referred to as aetherscopes, these are a particular form of scanner designed to monitor disturbances in the empyrean and detect and analyse psychic energies. These sophisticated and tricky devices are used extensively by adepts and savants attached to the Holy Ordos, although very similar scanners are actually used as a common part of the engineering equipment of major starships to monitor the status of the ship’s Geller feld and its generators.
    The Tech Use skill is required to be able use one of these scanners. Awareness Tests taken in conjunction with the device enable the user to determine the presence and relative strength of psychic force, Daemons, the lingering effects of warp disturbances and the like. Psy-trackers are somewhat temperamental devices with an operating range of no more than a few hundred metres (although they might register very powerful spikes and signals from far beyond that). They are also easily clouded and confused by powerful energy felds and psychic “background noise”.

    Psyocculum
    A form of photo-visor, psyocculum are designed to enhance the emanations made by pyskers into a visual form. They allow the wearer to detect psykers (and only psykers) as if the user had the Psyniscience Skill with a bonus of +20. Use of the psyocculum requires a Full Action.

    Prognosticator
    The services of Navigators are not easily or cheaply secured, and many pirate vessels plying the warp beyond the Koronus Passage cannot obtain such rare and valuable individuals to guide their ships through the warp. While most warp-capable vessels are able to make short hops through the Immaterium, covering four or five light-years at a time along stable routes, some pirates and smugglers desire the means to travel farther and along the more dangerous routes to better elude those who hunt them. A Prognosticator is a forbidden device using minor examples of blasphemous maletek to more accurately map and predict the tides and fows of the warp than conventional cogitators can, though not as precisely as a Navigator. Nobody knows for certain where they were created, although some suspect hereteks on Iniquity. Others whisper stories about a forgotten civilisation based on sorcery that exists within the heart of the Great Warp Storms of the Halo Margins, but few give this nonsense any credence. A character using a prognosticator can attempt Psyniscience and Navigation (Warp) Tests untrained in regards to navigating the warp, and may attempt to do so as if a Navigator, but they must pass a Challenging (+0) Willpower Test or gain 1d5 Insanity Points from brief glimpses of the Immaterium. Characters who already possess those skills gain no additional benefit.

    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 12:52 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    So you might need to retcon that bit, or at least have the testing being done by an Ork captive.
    Edited to say that the testing was done by orks on designated targets. The Culture still won't touch warp things after all so the motivation is there.


    And darn, I really should have come across those scanner stuff. I was looking for them. =(

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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    And darn, I really should have come across those scanner stuff. I was looking for them. =(
    They were hard to find... only one of those was in the 3rd Edition Codex Witch Hunters; I think the others were just in the RPG's themselves, often in splatbooks...

    Here, let me get you something...

    http://www.mediafire.com/?824ubcddplwcr44

    That's a fan compilation of MOST of the gear from the various RPG's, often with short summaries of what they do. You will generally have to go to the primary sources to see exactly what something does, of course...

    Good luck!

    But, in general, if you can think of 'a device to do x', there is generally at least ONE device that does that somewhere in the Imperium. That's what all their best tech is; one-off wonders from the ancients, or mad scientists, or for their best troops or for Inquisitors, or heretek stuff hidden in vaults. They don't have a baseline, but they have lots of variety of weird things in low numbers... they just don't have WIDE access to that stuff, and those things aren't often where the Imperium most needs them.

    Also, the RPGs are often of dubious canonicity...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 01:00 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Well, what I'm looking for is a set of warp-real combination things that are useful in probing the basic rules of the warp itself.

    Sort of like a pair of tweezers, a clock and a ruler is like in the real world. Seriously, those are like, the most useful things you'll ever find a laboratory.

    Of course, I am not thinking about a warp-tweezer or a warp-powered clock here. Just an analogy for "manipulator", "recorder" and "standard measure".
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-07 at 01:07 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Those three things would be very useful for probing the warp, yea. They don't affect or modify it, though...

    I think there is are some drugs that interact with the warp...

    Spook

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    This drug can augment and even produce short-term psychic abilities in the user. If a character without any Psy Rating takes a dose of spook he must successfully make a Willpower Test or gain 1d5 Insanity Points as his mind is flled with horrible visions of the warp. On a success, the user gains a power from Table 5-15: Random Psychic Powers—see descriptions in Chapter VI: Psychic Powers. The power lasts for 1d5 hours and the user manifests the power—if he does not have the Focus Power skill—by making a Hard (–20) Willpower Test.If a character with a Psy Rating of 1 or more uses spook they must make a Willpower Test. If they fail they gain an Insanity Point and no further effects. If they pass they add 2 to all Power Rolls for the next hour. However, add +25 to any rolls made on the Psychic Phenomena table (see Table 6-2: Psychic Phenomena, page 162).


    Torpor
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    Long used by the masters of the Black Ships to control their harvest of charges, torpor is a chemical cocktail of neural-inhibitors and narcotics deigned to render the subject docile and, more importantly, negate their ability to use Psychic Powers. Likewise the Holy Ordos maintains it own supplies of Torpor for prisoner control and other uses, while hereteks and some cults have been known to manufacture their somewhat unreliable version for their own dark purposes.
    A single dose of torpor lasts for 1d10 minus the subject’s Toughness Bonus in hours, during which time the subject is overcome by a grey anxiety-ridded haze in which he counts as Fatigued and must succeed in a Difficult (–20)
    Willpower Test to perform any Actions of his own volition. In addition, sychic characters have their Psy-Rating reduced by 4 while under this drug’s effects.


    Geist

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    A psycho-reactive compound derived from ghostfre pollen harvested on Iocanthos and combined with a pre-existing psycho-active drug known as Spook, Geist is known for its ability to boost the powers of psykers. Geist is extraordinarily dangerous when used on non-psykers, who lack the necessary mental discipline to control the sudden surge in power. In psykers, the increase in power the drug induces can be unpredictable, but valuable. Such stimulants, often blended with tiny amounts of slaught, and human blood, have been used by notorious witches and sorcerers in the Koronus Expanse, making the Calixian Ordos ever more eager to outlaw them.
    In any character without a Psy Rating, use of Geist causes an immediate Psychic Phenomena result. In characters with a Psy Rating, a dose of Geist grants the character two additional points of Psy Rating for 1d5+1 minutes. However, the character may not use powers Fettered while under the infuence of the drug, and adds +10 to all rolls on the Psychic Phenomena table, in addition to any other modifers.


    Rez (mostly a Chaos drug, not an Imperial drug; can be found in Imperial space though)
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    This unnatural drug is also known as resonate. Users emit a balm of soothing psychic energies, placating denizens of the aetheric realms and calming unruly Warp disturbances. Only few care to know how it is made, as only the most powerful of slain sorcerers can provide the raw ingredients. For it is their ground bones, especially from those who summoned but were consumed by daemons, that make up each dose.

    Rez requires an Easy (+30) Willpower Test to activate after taking a dose and lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Degrees of Success multiplied by 10. During that time the user may subtract 2d10 from any rolls on the Psychic Phenomena or Perils of the Warp tables. Failing the Willpower Test, however, immediately triggers Psychic Phenomena.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 01:25 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Well, what I'm looking for is a set of warp-real combination things that are useful in probing the basic rules of the warp itself.

    Sort of like a pair of tweezers, a clock and a ruler is like in the real world. Seriously, those are like, the most useful things you'll ever find a laboratory.

    Of course, I am not thinking about a warp-tweezer or a warp-powered clock here. Just an analogy for "manipulator", "recorder" and "standard measure".
    Yeah, that sort of stuff just doesn't exist in-canon, because no one can stand exposure to the warp long enough to devise it without going crazy - and even if they did, the instruments would require regular warp exposure themselves to be of any use, which would quickly warp () their tolerances and accuracy outside of usability. The only effective canon way to study the warp, even with its inherent rules (which are fanon to begin with), is through psykers.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-11-07 at 01:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    There are things that manipulate or interact with the warp. Various warp drives, teleportariums of various sorts, d-cannons and similar devices, and vortex torpedoes, etc. etc. etc.

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    There are things that manipulate or interact with the warp. Various warp drives, teleportariums of various sorts, d-cannons and similar devices, and vortex torpedoes, etc. etc. etc.
    There's a lot of ways to interact with or manipulate the warp, yeah, but nothing that functions as a way to measure it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    There are things that manipulate or interact with the warp. Various warp drives, teleportariums of various sorts, d-cannons and similar devices, and vortex torpedoes, etc. etc. etc.
    They don't manipulate the warp so much as they do the materium, ripping apart physical space to allow immaterium through in a directed, rather than controlled, manner.

    Even the Talisman's of Vaul (Blackstone Fortresses) are limited to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    There are things that manipulate or interact with the warp. Various warp drives, teleportariums of various sorts, d-cannons and similar devices, and vortex torpedoes, etc. etc. etc.
    (responding to the previous posts as well)
    I'm not actually looking for a psyker. Psykers exist.

    Although the availability of a drug that can induce warp powers in people provokes very interesting questions if the drug isn't a warp thing.


    And yes, the warp drives and teleportariums and vortex cannons, etc. All of these warp things will have to be made by psykers if they had no method of manipulating the warp outside of psykers and very limited applied things.

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    There is the likelihood that all of those things I mentioned? Have organic components... after all, mostly just eldar and humans make those sorts of things, so it makes sense that they have organic parts.


    Here's a fanon physics of the warp thing, that I have no idea if this conflicts with canon or not:

    http://www.philipsibbering.com/wh40k...-physcis.shtml
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Sorcery is a viable way of studying the Warp. That's how most of the Chaos researchers do it -- integrating Sorcery into their tech or whatever. They also summon demonhosts and such to question them. Also remember that the Warp is bound and reactive to thought and urges. Whether this is the cause of Daemons look like traditional daemons and hellish things, and contracts being meaningful, and true names being meaningful, and the iconography of thought being meaningful is unknown... ie, whether the Warp was always like that, or is only like that because people expect it to be like that is unknown.


    Also, if you wanted a ruler, I would suggest that psychoactive plastics like the Eldar or the Emperor made are probably more reliable than the organic stuff that is presumably used in various human warp tech...


    So I would surmise that it kinda goes back to needing psykers / bonesingers, to make the ruler and tweezer which is more reliable than the organic parts of non-Eldar warp tech, which will let you determine the rules of the Warp without doing Sorcery or questioning a Daemon or whatever.


    Also, Jokaero seem to make tech that by its shape interacts with the Warp. So that's a place to look. IE, their ships are shaped a certain way to draw off power from the warp to move their ships without any power source. If anyone has a warp ruler or warp tweezers, it's Jokaero.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 01:56 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jokaero

    Of course the Jokaero might just be using Culture style Gridfire. Or it could be Warp based. Iunno... Maybe its implying that the galactic energy isnt warp?? Some sort of Stringtech or space folding or something...

    Maybe they're powered by plot! Or Rule of Cool. :P
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 03:57 PM.

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    Of course, I am not thinking about a warp-tweezer or a warp-powered clock here. Just an analogy for "manipulator", "recorder" and "standard measure".
    Psi-scanners exist, although they're pretty rare.
    Not quite what you're looking for, since it is mainly a warp powered sensor array. It works to detect unusual warp activity in its vicinity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    Psi-scanners exist, although they're pretty rare.
    Not quite what you're looking for, since it is mainly a warp powered sensor array. It works to detect unusual warp activity in its vicinity.
    Anything different than the three I mentioned?

    Also, there are Witch-Augurs, which let a navigator make checks to predict when and where a starship will emerge from the Warp. Warp Antenna help with a particular type of warp detection. Combine one of those with a Prognosticator... especially if the person wearing the prognosticator is in a Warp Sextant at the time (think Dune style Navigator tank).

    Witch Augurs, Warp Antenna, and Warp Sextants are Archeotech. Witch Augurs and Warp Antennas are external, a Warp Sextant is internal.

    Having all of those, with a guy wearing Prognosticator in the Warp Sextant tank... and you have a quite insane, very high quality, Navigator-in-a-Box.

    Also note: Some of the fastest Imperial ships, the ones who use MOST of the warp-based Archeotech, with the fastest Warp Drives... are Grey Knights ships found near Titan. So if there is one ship that has all of this archeotech, it would probably be a design they scanned at Titan.

    And Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus probably have access to the widest variety of Psy-Scanning tech out there...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 02:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Anything different than the three I mentioned?
    No, I just missed your post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    part 6.5 Orks - Finale (for the orks this time)
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    After the battle where the Necrons were dispatched with, if not ease, at least without casualties or much expended ordnance, the Orks appeared to consider the defensive teams with more respect. Or at least, wariness.

    The Ork warboss did not appear to survive the firefight, the ruins of his exoskeleton armour was found destroyed by a Necron weapon, but another ork appeared and issued a similar challenge.
    Once again, the SC agent under took this same challenge but this ork appeared less resilient than before and an effector assisted palm strike to the head killed him while negotiations were opened again with the Necron Lord.

    The attack having appeared to have failed dramatically, the Necron Lord decided that instead of allowing his technology to fall into the hands of the 'Eldar' he was going to destroy them himself.
    A series of detonations marked the beginnings of his power cores' self-destruct cycle that destroyed the lower chambers, and presumably the Necron Lord and more sensitive equipment. Some of the power cores were prevented from destabilizing after deactivation of his shields and usage of effectors to substitute for containment fields that bled the energy off to a non-explosive level. Most cores still detonated and as many Necrons were displaced to orbit as fast as possible, nevertheless all vehicles apart from one "floaty thing" and a single maintenance drone were destroyed.

    Meanwhile, the Orks on the surface were more impressed at the SC agents rapid kill (if accidental, but we did not communicate such) of the challenger ork. Reportedly, he then issued an open challenge to any other orks who wished to take him on. Some rounds were fired, all but one missed, that one was deflected by an effector field, and the SC agent shot each ork who fired upon him, this GCU aiding him in the video tracking.

    The SC agent then claimed that the observed tribal nature of the orks are not due to their primitivism and that they were a true HS with the hierarchy of power built into their society. While this GCU does not believe his claim as such, we were willing to tolerate an experiment. The SC agent forced an ork tinkerer on the pain of death to make a working Necron gun from a destroyed one, the same as IoM claims that the orks could get anything to work, which had been dismissed as xenophobic exaggeration.

    Amazingly, the ork managed to piece together a working gun, if unreliable and weak compared to proper necron weaponry. The gun has been recovered for analysis and preliminary indications seem to say the gun has absolutely nothing in common with the original Necron weapon. A similar experiment was conducted with a simple explosive powder driven weapon to similar results, only this time, the resulting weapon had no possibility of even working and would sometimes even fire without ammunition.
    The artifacts themselves are under lockdown on the planet surface. All tests were done by the orks on designated targets. No testing from us has been conducted thus far.

    We tentatively conclude from this that the orks have the ability to imbue objects with warp properties. This is an incredible find of great interest and implication for both the Culture and our stance towards the orks. This GCU believes that the Orks are an actual race capable of civilization if extensive reforming efforts are used and will treat them as such.

    However, we do note that our argument for their capabilities is only founded on extrapolations for the orks' technological instinct.
    The SC agent's position is likewise common among the crew and nearby Minds that we contacted, that the orks are irredeemable HSes with the use of weapons and undesirable oppressive power structure built into them.
    We do also note that until a full-scale multi-factor simulation of their genetic code is complete, which make take weeks or be impossible due to the lack of understanding about the warp, this is also impossible to confirm as true.

    I just thought of something. If the Culture has the orks under control on this planet, couldn't they use the orks to fashion Warp-based equipment for analysis?

    Like... a warp scanner that can detect psychic phenomena (which the Culture really REALLY want). Or basic tools that interact with the warp in some basic fashion and open up true analysis of its properties and rules.

    Admittedly, I find this attractive mostly because the thought of the Culture using the orks as a source of technology is hilarious.
    Even more ironically, only the Culture would even be able to conceive of the notion in 40k. Get technology from the orks??? =S

    But, seriously, the orks stand as something the Culture might or might not have objections using.
    Also, the IoM can't be made into slave labour without moral problems, the Eldar don't talk about it, the Necrons hate it and don't really understand it either... Chaos is out of the question. So they really have no one else to talk to.

    Enough interaction with the orks might have the Culture thinking of diverting them to the Eye of Terror.
    No Orks couldn't build a scanner.

    Waaghs have been launched into the Eye before. One of them got stuck in an eternal planet on a daemonworld. They're having a great time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    There is the likelihood that all of those things I mentioned? Have organic components... after all, mostly just eldar and humans make those sorts of things, so it makes sense that they have organic parts.
    I doubt it. I mean they don't use organic parts for literally anything else. Warp Drives don't have organic parts either.
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  21. - Top - End - #351
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    I thought it is a plausible explanation that absolutely all Imperial tech uses organic parts in the circuitry wherever possible?

    Part of the Imperial culture with technology and such?

    One of my sources is absolutely convinced that all imperial circuitry and such (yes even in lasguns) has an organic component...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    I thought it is a plausible explanation that absolutely all Imperial tech uses organic parts in the circuitry wherever possible?

    Part of the Imperial culture with technology and such?

    One of my sources is absolutely convinced that all imperial circuitry and such (yes even in lasguns) has an organic component...
    I've never heard that, ever. They use a lot of servitors, but organic components in technology? That's completely new.
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    On the other hand, I have this nagging feeling that that particular source is Capital-C Crazy...

    He does know a lot about some of the things he knows about, though!


    I think it is the idea that they use servitor parts in everything? Which is defensible? And that they don't like making circuitry that isn't organic, due to that restriction based on making nothing that truly thinks that isn't a person, due to issues with Abominable Intelligence in their history...


    Now, this interpretation might not be true, but it is certainly defensible, and several people have made this interpretation of 40k (lasguns are made of people!!!)...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-07 at 11:39 PM.

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    They use a lot of servitors, but organic components in technology? That's completely new.
    Definitely exists. There is an aqualung thing which is basically a pair of gills to be strapped over the mouth. A psyker gun that has a vat of living psyker brains which are goaded into shooting things. Rare but not unknown.
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    part 6.5 Eldar
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    Week 1
    The Eldar have shared a strange warning with us. They say we are on collision course with a Chaos fleet and there is a risk of Chaos benefitting greatly.
    We were unable to get details from the Eldar but all ships have been put on high alert and have doubled checked all systems. We have found no trace of a Chaos incursion.

    Week 2
    We have agreed to trust the Eldar when they say that the three Eldar on the Path of the Wanderer who have requested to join us temporarily are Chaos-free. They appear to have great caution about Chaos and definitely are more knowledgeable about Chaos in general due to their warp-sensitive nature.

    The exchange program is agreed to. We will take on three Eldar wanderers while an SC agent and a drone will go with the Eldar, and one Contact citizen will join the local Eldar community on this Exodite world.

    Week 3
    Technology transfer to the Eldar has hit a strange bottleneck. While the Eldar easily grasp high level concepts underlying the hyperspace drive, their craftsmen do not seem to understand the manufacturing principles we drew out for them. This seems strange to us but no explanation has been given by the Eldar.

    A hyperspace drive training and experimental demonstration has shifted a small asteroid into circular orbit around the local gas giant.

    Optimizations to their plasma weaponry have improved range and firepower mildly, slightly less than expected. Their craftsmen now understand these principles, technology transfer of this field is complete.


    It has become clear that the Eldar warning of Chaos was directed at Golden Goose's brush with the Chaos warband. This is puzzling as the Eldar should have no way to predict the movements of the Rogue Trader nor Chaos.
    This is presumed to be a Warp effect. If it is possible to influence the rules of the universe, might not closed-time-like curves be possible?
    Perhaps if we understood the Warp drive, we might be able to use time-like curves instead of space-like ones...? The implications of this is profound, if true. We must look for such indications.

    Eldar don't seem to do very much. =(

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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    part 6.5 Eldar
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    Week 1
    The Eldar have shared a strange warning with us. They say we are on collision course with a Chaos fleet and there is a risk of Chaos benefitting greatly.
    We were unable to get details from the Eldar but all ships have been put on high alert and have doubled checked all systems. We have found no trace of a Chaos incursion.

    Week 2
    We have agreed to trust the Eldar when they say that the three Eldar on the Path of the Wanderer who have requested to join us temporarily are Chaos-free. They appear to have great caution about Chaos and definitely are more knowledgeable about Chaos in general due to their warp-sensitive nature.

    The exchange program is agreed to. We will take on three Eldar wanderers while an SC agent and a drone will go with the Eldar, and one Contact citizen will join the local Eldar community on this Exodite world.

    Week 3
    Technology transfer to the Eldar has hit a strange bottleneck. While the Eldar easily grasp high level concepts underlying the hyperspace drive, their craftsmen do not seem to understand the manufacturing principles we drew out for them. This seems strange to us but no explanation has been given by the Eldar.

    A hyperspace drive training and experimental demonstration has shifted a small asteroid into circular orbit around the local gas giant.

    Optimizations to their plasma weaponry have improved range and firepower mildly, slightly less than expected. Their craftsmen now understand these principles, technology transfer of this field is complete.


    It has become clear that the Eldar warning of Chaos was directed at Golden Goose's brush with the Chaos warband. This is puzzling as the Eldar should have no way to predict the movements of the Rogue Trader nor Chaos.
    This is presumed to be a Warp effect. If it is possible to influence the rules of the universe, might not closed-time-like curves be possible?
    Perhaps if we understood the Warp drive, we might be able to use time-like curves instead of space-like ones...? The implications of this is profound, if true. We must look for such indications.

    Eldar don't seem to do very much. =(
    Well they take their time when they can and you have the Culture rushing. If this story took place on a longer timescale they'd do more.

    You can have some parts about the rangers and the Culture ambassadors.

    Note about the rangers is that they aren't on a path so they tend to be much less controlled and much more emotional then normal Eldar because they aren't trying to restrict their emotions.
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  27. - Top - End - #357
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    A few topics to mention:

    *You would have to gene sequence and do extrapolations and such of the entire Orkoid ecosystem, not just 'Orks', to get an accurate picture of what is going on in their society, and why, and how.

    *Has The Culture _asked_ for information on Necrontyr language from the Necrons? Or are they still speaking in Eldar?? That might be an issue!

    *The Terminator (as in the movie) style marker overlay thing, for complete battlespace awareness... is probably used in the Imperium. The Mechanicum fights like that (Skitarii especially, and the Knights and Titans, oh GOD yes!), and I would presume that certain Astartes fight like that, especially the Iron Hands and the Deathwatch. Maybe the Raven Guard, too. Any group that has sufficient neural enhancements to make use of the extra data, mostly!

    *And Eldar do more than you think, but it just isn't... observable. They are big behind the scenes; they probably have a bunch of conspiracies going on that The Culture can't notice yet!

    *So when is The Culture going to Get A Clue that showing reverence and awe and interest in the Eldar, reinforcing their idea of their own superiority and flattering them, and asking for things as if placing value on their stuff, likely to get them places? They probably have enough information to make a societal model that helps with this topic...

    *ALSO, offering to return Eldar Artefacts that they find on various worlds to the Craftworld will get them soooo muuuuch goodwill. Eldar REALLY want their lost stuff returned! Have The Eldar even mentioned this? If not, they should!

    *I had an idae with the RT subplot. I'm thinking tha one of the more eccentric/xenotech-loving Explorator Techpriests on the RT ship will get the bright idea to gain an advantage in advancing his career over his peers by putting in a request for the theory of operation and detailed explanations of some bit of tech on the ship that he is interested in, for the next trade from The Culture. Of course, he would do this with some amount of secrecy, and he would want it in a form specifically designed to work very well with his neural augmetics and enhancements (ie, easily parsed for data inload to his internal, cogitators, neural circuitry, machine interface ports, remembrancer implants, etc. etc.). He might then come up with some new prayer based on this understanding of the piece of tech. After all, just because someone in the Mechanicum knows exactly how and why something works doesn't mean that he will lose faith. In fact, knowing how it works and how it is dangerous might encourage him to stay the path, as the ritual and mystery mediates human interaction with technology, lowers dangerous curiosity and the associated chance of Chaos corruption, and reinforces the power of the Machine Cult. Regardless, he might brag to a few Radical close confidants, who then put in requests of their own. Eventually, the cat would get out of the bag, and there would probably be a schism amongst the Techpriests in the Rogue Trader ship, which would be verrryyy interesting.

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    part 7
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    Week 1
    Following Golden Goose's high risk adventure, travel into IoM warp restricted areas is discouraged regardless of whether realspace manifestation of the warp is detected.

    The revelations on orkish society are extremely interesting but are also a cause for worry. Many Minds and citizens have expressed concern over classifying them as a HS due to this and corralling or using them.

    Multiple Minds have taken up the task of analyzing the orkish genome but we are still awaiting results.

    Another warning has been received from the Eldar regarding a warpstorm in realspace that is about to occur in a system slated for survey in two weeks time. They have warned us not to approach the system, saying the doing so will strengthen Chaos greatly.
    So far, only already established warpstorms have been observed. The most prominent being the Eye of Chaos. Formation of warpstorms are of great scientific interest.

    The Eldar have asked that we return any Eldar artefacts that we come across. We have agreed to do this, with the understanding that we will study the artefacts (this was not negotiable) but will not deliberately delay their return.

    While skepticism of the warning is widespread, we do not discount the possibility that the Eldar may have inside information on Chaos. The entire area will be avoid and an ROU, a GSV and three GCUs are enroute to nearby systems to observe and take readings.

    IoM Ordo Xenos activity has been on the rise regarding an "unknown xeno". Given the number of blunders and potential sightings, including occasional psyker detections of our ships, we surmise that the IoM has become aware of our operations.
    A debate about whether to open full diplomatic contact with the IoM is underway.

    Week 2
    Things came to a head recently over the Ork sentience issue and a number of GCUs have supporting the Orks as HS hypothesis have taken action against Ork-infested IoM worlds, clearing their presence completely and confiscating all ork-artifacts.

    GCUs that support the reformable-orks hypothesis have tried to negotiate with them, and in one case, has totally usurped the power structure as an experiment (Large Sticks Speak Softly).

    ROU Pest Control has reported another minor contact with Tyranids, also to a similar success.
    Analysis of tyranid biology has lead to some advances in genetic manipulation. The tyranids' use of controlled hypermutation allows them to adapt amazingly quickly in response to adverse situations, while full use of this technique is not possible for single organisms, strategies used by the Tyranids can be applied. Application of these principles should increase our organic citizens' resistance in general (minor) and increase the range of possible body profiles.
    Another interesting discovery under investigation is the implied sentience of occasional individuals in the hive fleets. These sentient beings are also part of a hive mind in a way that is currently not fully understood. Some warp phenomena is also suspected.

    Necrontyr language has been deciphered, we no longer use Eldar to talk to the Necrons. Multiple tomb worlds have been tracked down but we are awaiting permission to activate them.
    Analysis of Necron technology has yielded a theoretical advance in sub-atomic engineering; stable nuclear molecules are at least possible through a currently poorly-understood theoretical method.

    We have decided to initiate IoM contact. The Ordo Xenos has been chosen as our vector. Technology transfer to the IoM is discouraged due to the prevalence of ex-IoM ship classes among the Eldar information on Chaos.

    Week 3
    The two major factions of the ork-HS question have begun to solidfy into a political disagreement. At current trajectories of opinion, seccession of the expedition into two roughly equal halves over this matter is considered likely, although the process is expected to happen over the next few months.

    Investigations into the ork genome has revealed that their technical expertise is instinctual and limited to their programming, as evidenced by the similar technologies developed amazingly rapidly by completely separate ork groups. This has strengthened the position of the orks-as-a-HS faction, but has not convinced many to switch positions.

    ROU Gunboat Diplomacy has reported an encounter at the border of Tau space. The ROU came across a Tyranid fleet assaulting an IoM world and destroyed it. This event was witnessed by a Tau scout ship.
    The ROU decided not to initiate contact, instead opting to wait for the GCU Peacemaker following it that was due to arrive two days later. During that time the Tau ship warp jumped out of the system.

    The Eldar-warned warpstorm has occurred. Major disruptions to realspace movements are observed, a GCU caught in such a storm would be destroyed or outright displaced into the warp.
    Many skeptics of the Eldar warnings have been convinced.

    An IoM ship has been observed in two places at the same time. Two GCUs at a mining world and a forge world, Neverending Story and A Blue Telephone Booth respectively, registered its passage and it was investigated as a potential smuggler or pirate by the GCUs. However, when the captain and key crew matched appearances and internal body structure as well as genetics, suspicions arose. Radiometric dating of unstable isotopes in the plasma core shell indicated that the ship at the forge world was slightly older by about one or two weeks.
    A Blue Telephone Booth then discovered a hidden hypercomm buried in the structure of the ship when it began transmitting. This was deactivated and removed, the message decoded. This message: "Neverending Story placed this hypercomm here as an experiment" was transmitted to Neverending Story but that GCU admitted to no such action.
    This was quickly deciphered to be a closed time loop and before the IoM ship jumped out, Neverending Story planted the hypercomm transmitter.

    A major disagreement over classifying orks. The Culture's decentralized post-singularity is both an advantage and a disadvantage.
    Disagreements over political actions can lead to a split (it's very much like the Idiran war in that respect). Nevertheless, the Culture as a whole are very adaptable and can change entire political stances in a blink of an eye.

    RE kowtowing to Eldar:
    I'm waiting for the exchange program to be over for that to happen. At this point, the only Eldar contact they have are two Exodite worlds (which they aren't talking to and one of which is in a warp-weak area they're avoiding)

    This is going to be a long 3 weeks.
    Parts:
    - Chaos Encounter outside new Warpstorm
    - Gunboat Diplomacy and Peacemaker at Tau first contact (1 week only)
    --- Technically, they also meet the Ultramarines as that's a world under their jurisdiction they just whacked a hive fleet off
    - Eldar exchange program, Eldar in Culture and vice versa
    - Talking to the Ordo Xenos(2 weeks)
    - Golden Goose and its RT
    - White Devil, Curiousity Saved the Cat and the Necrons
    - Large Sticks Speak Softly takes over an ork warband

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    I believe several chapters of Astartes have been known to not be as Xenophobic as IoM standard; many have allied with Xenos at a tactical level to fight Tyranids, Chaos, or Orks. I think the Ultramarines are one such chapter, though I am not sure (the Fire Warrior game has often been derided as departing from Canon by some). It's conceivable that some chapters of the Astartes could be like, 'stay away from our charges and this area of space and there won't be a problem. Go kill this thing and bring proof to get on our good side.'


    Also, regarding Ordo Xenos, I assume they will make several simultaneous transmissions to individual Inquisitors? They are likely to get extremely varied responses depending on the disposition of the Inquisitor in question; they are a diverse group! Certain types of Radicals would absolutely love The Culture; many Puritans would be aghast and call for a Crusade. Expect multiple conspiracies forming or seeking to gain power with one angle or another.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-09 at 12:45 PM.

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    I don't think Ork tech is encoded into their genetics. I think all that's encoded into their genetics is the Waaaagh instinct. And then that Warplinked gestalt consciousness is what makes Orks come up with technology innovations.

    Analysis of tyranid biology has lead to some advances in genetic manipulation. The tyranids' use of controlled hypermutation allows them to adapt amazingly quickly in response to adverse situations, while full use of this technique is not possible for single organisms, strategies used by the Tyranids can be applied. Application of these principles should increase our organic citizens' resistance in general (minor) and increase the range of possible body profiles.
    Plausible, but remember that the Culture does already do this kind of stuff. Culture citizens already adapt automatically to environmental conditions in a series of ways from stark to minor.

    I'd buy that they could take some minor improvements from Tyranid genome codes though.
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