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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    What do you guys say? If you were the Culture, would you trade the Tau the hyperspace drive for a chance at cracking the Chaos contamination problem? (which admittedly, is kind of a Big Issue)

    Well... The Culture was considering destabilizing The Imperium anyway. And the Tau Empire would likely use the Hyperspace drive for (mostly) another push for expansion of their empire, generally going by realspace distance (ie, a spherical expansion, just increasing the size of the sphere). Without the various other associated technologies, the Tau Empire can't greatly speed their expansion too much. They do like to expand, consolidate, expand, consolidate.

    The Tau earnestly believe that The Imperium has generally failed to successfully help govern their border planets in a useful, effective way... which is generally true. If The Culture also sees that The Imperium hasn't really governed that well... do they want to keep it extant? I would probably say that they don't really want to destabilize the whole thing (like destroying the Astronomicon would cause untold deaths!), but replacing the government of some of the border areas with one that has ethical limits and behaves in a relatively sane way, which immediately comes into the void that The Imperium has left in these areas... might not be a bad thing.

    The Culture would probably want some concessions and promises on the maximum timescale and depth of the takeover of Imperial space. IE, 'We know this will let you take over Imperial planets, and increase the rate of your expansion. Due to the fact that, as best as we can see, destabilizing the entire Imperium would have dire ramifications, the extent of which we can not predict, we want a treaty that limits the rate at which you annex Imperial worlds using this technology, thereby giving us time to gain a clearer picture of how replacing more and more of Imperial rule with different governance would affect the galaxy.'

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I've been wondering, and I'm sure it's been discussed already, but how do the Tau deal with psykers emerging on planets they have annexed? Ork Infestations?

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    That's not a correct answer at all, while GW may "revise" canon from time to time they do keep things consistent within the codex's, and they are the original source.
    Oh, in this case I was just taking Glyphstone's word that there are contradictions in the fluff. And given the varying power levels I've heard described in the novels by posters on this thread, it does rather sound like there is a certain lack of overall editorial control/intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Your opinion's on consistency are not relevant, and honestly taking fanfiction into account at all is an immediate no in any formal debate. I could bring up a fanfiction where 40k beats the culture because lances are randomly better than Gridfire, and they "Lulz Psyker Rape" the minds.

    Would it be canon? No. Because fanfiction isn't.
    One fanfiction piece is one fanfiction piece. It doesn't influence the setting unless it forms a cohesive whole with the rest of the depictions of the setting, first part, third party, and fanfiction. Much as first part pieces don't have any importance if they don't jive with the general stylistic presentation of the world in question. This is a mistake I often see you make with regard to various superhero universes: the fact that superman has accomplished ridiculous, galaxy-tossing things in certain comics is evidence against the canonicity of those comics, not evidence that superman has those capabilities. Fictional universes are determined by the picture woven in the minds of the collective readership, and if that readership reads fanfiction then that plays a role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Third party sources are also outside of control of the "Creative Source", so they aren't canon.

    Consistency aside, it doesn't matter, Games Workshop work > any other source for 40k material. if you don't see a GW logo on the cover, it's less canon because it's their stamp of approved content. The only official measure of "canon" GW has is that stamp.
    Your reiteration of this argument without more extensive justification suggests that you didn't fully understand my post. I suggest you read it again. My whole point is that any notion of a creative source is irrelevant. If you treat a fictional universe as worthy of arguments as if it were a real universe, then you need to emphasize those sources that produce a universe you can have those sorts of arguments about, which means you need to value cohesiveness, clarity of impressions, and memorability over any one author, group of authors, or company's particular creative output.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I've been wondering, and I'm sure it's been discussed already, but how do the Tau deal with psykers emerging on planets they have annexed? Ork Infestations?
    I would presume they get their other Psykers to handle Psykers they find?? There is at least one race in the Empire that is most/all Psykers (though Tau themselves don't produce any)... And I presume they give the group of orks a chance to join the greater good, and when the orks inevitably decline, they shoot them, because orks are... you know. Orks, and the orks probably responded with threats of violence.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 02:22 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    I would presume they get their other Psykers to handle Psykers they find?? And I presume they give the group of orks a chance to join the greater good, and when the orks inevitably decline, they shoot them, because orks are... you know. Orks, and the orks probably responded with threats of violence.
    But I thought the Tau didn't have any Psykers? It's kind of their thing. Does one of their client-races have some? I mean, it's a very different setup if the Tau are imposing alien secret-police on their annexed worlds than if they aren't, but if they aren't there are other problems that would arise.

    I mean, is there any official word, or semi-official hint on the subject?

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    The Tau (race) has no psykers.
    The Tau (empire) has psykers.

    They just aren't of the Tau Race.

    Look up Nicassar. There may be another (I don't know if the Psykers in EDIT: one of the Last Chancers novels were implied to be Nicassar or not).

    I edited the post you quoted.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 03:55 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Anything up to Alpha+ level psykers are perfectly able to be fought with conventional force. Most Alpha+ psykers too.

    If the Tau ever encounter something that can't be? Then they're pretty screwed. EDIT: Although, yeah. I guess the answer is their vassal races.
    Last edited by Selrahc; 2012-11-12 at 02:30 PM.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I also heard that the Kroot that ate Eldar developed some psykers. One developed a partial ability to turn invisible. Sometimes. Those Kroot that ate Eldar have a lot of Shamans...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 02:39 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    The Nicassar don't sound like they'd be much use. Which is to say, they are apparently exclusively interested in scouting the galaxy and hibernate when they aren't. Also they have that whole planetary gravity crushing them thing going, which seems to be all the rage these days.

    From what I can find out, it seems to be that the answer is quite literally that the Tau Empire simply hasn't expanded enough for long enough for it to really have been a problem yet and whilst they kind of understand psykers exist they have literally no handle on them otherwise.

    Not sure how the Kroot factor in, they don't seem that deeply intergrated as to be used to control the human Psyker problem. And from what I can tell, if they were put in charge of it, it would ammount to eating them to gain their awesome powers.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Ah! Just double checked. The Psykers working for the Tau were in one of the Last Chancers novels (Kill Team, I think). They are described as:

    "Three smaller figures"
    "small aliens, nearly naked but for short skirts, grey-skinned with wide yellow eyes and completely devoid of hair."


    They weren't described as floating flat polar bears, so they weren't Nicassar. So at least some Tau have access to not only Nicassar psykers, but also... whatever those were. All we can figure out is 'minor race, nonhuman, eastern fringe, not nicassar', I think.

    And yes, because exploring the galaxy isn't anything The Culture has been shown to do... >.> And the Nicassar hybernate because their ships are slowships!


    I would just say that there are probably several very minor psyker races in the Tau Empire, or at least allied with it. Probably groups that are like, 'oh my gawd, we're going to get annihilated by the Imperials if we aren't in a big enough group, they hate nonhuman psykers! Ahhhh!'


    Also. Amberley is Puritan. Quite Puritan. She is not a good choice for helping The Culture, just saying... but a Ciaphas Cain and Amberley story would be interesting, which is why people want it.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 04:26 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Ah! Just double checked. The Psykers working for the Tau were in one of the Last Chancers novels (Kill Team, I think). They are described as:

    "Three smaller figures"
    "small aliens, nearly naked but for short skirts, grey-skinned with wide yellow eyes and completely devoid of hair."


    They weren't described as flat polar bears, so they weren't Nicassar. So at least some Tau have access to not only Nicassar psykers, but also... whatever those were.

    And yes, because exploring the galaxy isn't anything The Culture has been shown to do... >.> And the Nicassar hybernate because their ships are slowships!
    Uh, well, what research I've managed to do didn't throw up any mention of anything like that, nor anything like that amongst the noteable allied races. Are they ever mentioned elsewhere?

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Nicassar!

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nicassar
    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Nicassar
    http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Nicassar

    http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nicassar
    warning: that's 1d4chan, sooo....

    http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...Tau_Fleets.pdf

    I'm thinking the drawing that the fan made might be a bit big?? I would have them be somewhat smaller, myself.


    Also, this seemed to be a good analysis of the Tau ships:

    http://advancedtautactica.com/viewto...p?f=23&t=12420
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 04:28 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Yes, Nicassar. Used only for explory scouty stuff and space travel, as I said. Also specifically hidden at all cost from the Imperium of Man.

    Which is to say, no mention of them looking after the annexed human worlds potential psyker problem, which is what I was asking about.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...-Brainstorming

    That also is a discussion of some people discussing them, hmmm...

    Maybe they use the other psykers, the little ones written in the Last Chancers book??

    Those are presumably a little more 'distant' to the core of the Tau Empire, and maybe are just allied mercenaries rather than full members of the Empire? More plausible deniability, perhaps?

    I think it is implied in the books that there are a few different levels of involvement in The Greater Good, from just being a paid mercenary to full fledged member species. It seems that there is a range...


    Also, there are known to be extremely rare (unique?) xenos artifacts that help 'make' psykers. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadowlight
    That seems like the sort of thing that a deep understanding of warp could make possible.

    Jseah: Have you decided on a precise date as to when your fanfic is happening?

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M41
    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M42
    http://www.scholaprogenium.com/timeline.html#yy
    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/M41
    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/M42
    http://www.ironhands.com/40time.htm
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 08:24 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...-Brainstorming

    That also is a discussion of some people discussing them, hmmm...

    Maybe they use the other psykers, the little ones written in the Last Chancers book??

    Those are presumably a little more 'distant' to the core of the Tau Empire, and maybe are just allied mercenaries rather than full members of the Empire? More plausible deniability, perhaps?

    I think it is implied in the books that there are a few different levels of involvement in The Greater Good, from just being a paid mercenary to full fledged member species. It seems that there is a range...


    Also, there are known to be extremely rare (unique?) xenos artifacts that help 'make' psykers. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadowlight
    That seems like the sort of thing that a deep understanding of warp could make possible.

    Jseah: Have you decided on a precise date as to when your fanfic is happening?

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M41
    http://www.scholaprogenium.com/timeline.html#yy
    http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/M42
    http://www.ironhands.com/40time.htm
    It was also made by The Old Ones, the same ones that MADE the Orks.

    They're kind of Gods.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    It was also made by The Old Ones, the same ones that MADE the Orks.

    They're kind of Gods.
    Ah, ffffigures. What were some of the other artifacts that weird crazy entities of that power level made?

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Ah, ffffigures. What were some of the other artifacts that weird crazy entities of that power level made?
    The Old Ones made a bunch of crazy stuff like the Blackstone Fortresses, though it seems like they preferred bio-engineering tons of Psyker races to actually making superweapons. The Eldar at their height were a smidge less powerful, and their civilization was probably pretty badass before they hedonism'd themselves out of existence; they've certainly left a lot of weapons.

    The Necrons under the C'Tan were similarly powerful to the Old Ones so arguably their null generators and Tomb Worlds fit the bill. The C'Tan Shards themselves, though not "made" exactly, are pretty stupidly powerful weapons.

    The Emperor was about as powerful as all the Chaos Gods combined before he was worshipped like a God for 10,000 years and had billions of souls sacrificed to him and he made stuff like the Primarchs and the Golden Throne / Astronomicon. Remember; the Astonomicon projects a signal across the better part of the entire galaxy and partial stabilizes the Warp to allow ships to travel. BTW, how does the Culture feel about the ~1,000 souls per day the thing needs for fuel?

    Chaos doesn't really build, but Warpcraft really has no upper limit on what it can accomplish with a smart enough and crazy enough Sorcerer behind it. Unbound Daemonhosts can single-handedly devastate planets, and that's a relatively common kind of thing for Cultists to stumble into making.
    Last edited by Water_Bear; 2012-11-12 at 08:03 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??


    Also, didn't the Astronomicon not always need the fuel, before the Emperor was in it?

    Or did it always need the fuel?

    And what happened with the whole Emperor trying to make a human controlled area of the webway? Was that ever clarified or retconned or anything?
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-12 at 08:06 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??
    Not according to the wiki.

    But remember, the Eldar are the inheritors of the Old Ones; out of everyone they've got the best shot of actually using their tech or even understanding some of the arcane Warp principles behind it.

    -Edit-

    The Astronomicon doesn't need fuel if a >Alpha+ Psyker (like the Emperor or some of the Primarchs) is willing to sit there and focus on it. But the Big E didn't want to waste time sitting on his ass when there was Science! to do, and none of the Primarchs had free time either, so he jury-rigged it as a temporary measure. And if you've ever made a "temporary" fix to machinery, you know how reluctant management is to throw down the resources for a real upgrade afterwards.

    With the Webway, he was mainly trying to figure out how to build Webway Gates. The Webway, being relatively isolated from the regular Warp, is much more reliable and less dangerous for travel; you can even travel on foot if you're a masochist. Plus, it's the perfect way to annihilate the Eldar; send a Crusade in and they can hit every Craftworld at once and raid the Black Library.
    Last edited by Water_Bear; 2012-11-12 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??


    Also, didn't the Astronomicon not always need the fuel, before the Emperor was in it?

    Or did it always need the fuel?

    And what happened with the whole Emperor trying to make a human controlled area of the webway? Was that ever clarified or retconned or anything?
    It was destroyed, The Emperor sat upon it, and psuedo died.

    Also, the Astral Choir would probably all but REQUIRE the Culture to bring back the Emperor, or kill him and bring him back, in order to be in line with their morals once discovered.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I would love to see the Culture run into the Illuminati and be so happy someone in the IoM will talk to them they unwittingly bring the Sensei together... only to see them sacrificed and the Emperor reborn more powerful and zealous than ever.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    I would love to see the Culture run into the Illuminati
    They would have to find a WHOLE LOT of other Imperial folk first... those sorts of people are sooo craazzyyy raaarreee... I don't think that group would come out of the woodwork quickly or at all...

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Aren't they the star-child guys? I thought they were quietly ignore-conned like the Star Child itself?

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    ...Is the Star Child ignore-conned??

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    ...Is the Star Child ignore-conned??
    I believe the Sensei were officially declared a Tzeentch Cult.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Jseah: Have you decided on a precise date as to when your fanfic is happening?
    Some time in M42.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Also, the Astral Choir would probably all but REQUIRE the Culture to bring back the Emperor, or kill him and bring him back, in order to be in line with their morals once discovered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    BTW, how does the Culture feel about the ~1,000 souls per day the thing needs for fuel?
    They understand that the IoM needs to do that. It's horrific but that's the way it is. They aim to get rid of it.

    By eventually replacing the IoM warpdrive with hyperspace drives.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    part 7.5 IoM Contact
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    Starry Banner reports that contact with the Inquisitors has been relatively peaceful, although we have decided to reject meeting them in person. The risk of attack was deemed too high, even for a lone SC agent, and the excessive risk posed by their use of psykers was deemed unacceptable.
    They refused to meet under a no-psyker restriction after we revealed that we could detect that they snuck a psyker into the meeting despite a stealth device being used. Simple DNA matching of the people present with a tally of every person in the IoM facility was enough to uniquely identify the psyker present.

    It took some time to get them to understand that we are a primarily space-bound civilization and thus have no designs on IoM territory or resources.

    We offered apologies for intruding into their territory, in particular, Sol, and they understandably were unsatisfied. When they demanded we leave, we did point out that we are unable to leave IoM space altogether since the IoM occupy every part of this galaxy. We are quite confident that this will lead to open war at some point in the future, at least on the IoM's part.
    Societal models indicate the following spark points are likely, <...>

    While Starry Banner has concealed our true technology, extent and penetration of IoM holdings, as well as our future plans for the IoM, we have managed to communicate some of our culture and society, which they find hard to believe.

    We have managed to find common ground in a desire to observe and contain the threat of Chaos. However, we are of the opinion that this matters little.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    I need data! Someone answer how the Ordo Xenos might react! =P


    Also, does anyone have some kind of excerpt for this Amberley woman? Someone requested that the Culture contact her, and if she's involved with the Ordo Xenos, sure. But I need to know how she'll react and think, so an excerpt of some kind would be nice.
    You know as awesome as Amberley is, I think you should just stick to using original characters.


    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    part 7.5 IoM Contact
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    Starry Banner reports that contact with the Inquisitors has been relatively peaceful, although we have decided to reject meeting them in person. The risk of attack was deemed too high, even for a lone SC agent, and the excessive risk posed by their use of psykers was deemed unacceptable.
    They refused to meet under a no-psyker restriction after we revealed that we could detect that they snuck a psyker into the meeting despite a stealth device being used. Simple DNA matching of the people present with a tally of every person in the IoM facility was enough to uniquely identify the psyker present.

    It took some time to get them to understand that we are a primarily space-bound civilization and thus have no designs on IoM territory or resources.

    We offered apologies for intruding into their territory, in particular, Sol, and they understandably were unsatisfied. When they demanded we leave, we did point out that we are unable to leave IoM space altogether since the IoM occupy every part of this galaxy. We are quite confident that this will lead to open war at some point in the future, at least on the IoM's part.
    Societal models indicate the following spark points are likely, <...>

    While Starry Banner has concealed our true technology, extent and penetration of IoM holdings, as well as our future plans for the IoM, we have managed to communicate some of our culture and society, which they find hard to believe.

    We have managed to find common ground in a desire to observe and contain the threat of Chaos. However, we are of the opinion that this matters little.
    Yeah that seems to be about right.
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    You know as awesome as Amberley is, I think you should just stick to using original characters.

    Yeah that seems to be about right.
    I am, unfortunately, slowly beginning to reach the same conclusion. His writing style doesn't fit many canonical characters that I can think of... after he reads a bunch of books, maybe -- but in a lot of cases, these characters wouldn't be, yaknow, meaningful additions to the plot or story. Does anyone know of a named, canonical, radical ordo xenos inquisitor that is alive at early m42? As far as accuracy -- that sounds about right regarding how the Ordo Xenos would react.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-13 at 12:51 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #540
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
    The Glyphstone's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Kryptman? He's got no confirmed death-date, and considering he's already Exocommunicate Traitorus, he wouldn't have a whole lot to lose by dealing with the Culture -particularly since they can more-or-less singlehandedly exterminate the Tyranids, which is sort of his mania.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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