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  1. - Top - End - #841
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Orks are fundamentally a might-makes-right society. You might be able to work out a rough fascimile of some sort of government, but it'd never get more complicated than different tribes/bands choosing a representative via brawling with each other to create a 'council' of Bosses who'd then brawl with each other to pick a Head Boss/Warboss, dispatching orders back down the chain and brawling instead of debating to settle disagreements. On the other hand, that's a sort of 'guvviment' that might actually be capable of being sold as Orky, if it's presented enough like a sort of arena/tournament style of mob rule...the trickiest bit would be convincing them that they gotta challenge their Boss before they can challenge the Warboss or Head Boss, and skipping the krumpin' chain of command is cheatin'. And you'll never get anything like an organized police force...if an Ork can't settle his problems himself, he's not worthy of being an Ork.

  2. - Top - End - #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Orks are fundamentally a might-makes-right society. You might be able to work out a rough fascimile of some sort of government, but it'd never get more complicated than different tribes/bands choosing a representative via brawling with each other to create a 'council' of Bosses who'd then brawl with each other to pick a Head Boss/Warboss, dispatching orders back down the chain and brawling instead of debating to settle disagreements. On the other hand, that's a sort of 'guvviment' that might actually be capable of being sold as Orky, if it's presented enough like a sort of arena/tournament style of mob rule...the trickiest bit would be convincing them that they gotta challenge their Boss before they can challenge the Warboss or Head Boss, and skipping the krumpin' chain of command is cheatin'. And you'll never get anything like an organized police force...if an Ork can't settle his problems himself, he's not worthy of being an Ork.

    Then again, that -- and 'activating' the various other oddboys that are part of the Orky genetic code but don't happen due to the genetics being turned off (Bankas, Pig Doks, someone had a list of things that Orks used to have but don't currently, I think in the other thread!) might be interesting. And it would be the easiest/simplest genetic tweak, rather than the Gross things. Give Orks a bit more Kulture. Does anyone remember that list?
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-25 at 11:35 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #843
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    Orks;
    Da Boss says what they do, because he's da boss and I believe he'll, uh, Krump was it? He'll Krump any grott that says otherwise.
    Which is to say, yes and no?

    As long as the SC agent is able to project enough general Orkyness he should be able to get the Orks to co-operate. If he ever falls beneath a certain level of percieved Orkyness, the whole lot will turn on him and his guys, regardless of how many they kill. (If they kill enough at this point, the remaining Orks would simply flee, so they can come back and have another go later).

    Nobs, as far as I know, already act as a basic sort of police force. A very basic, very brutal yet cunning sort of police-force. As long as fighting each other isn't something that you try to regulate and most crimes are punished in an Orky enough way, it might hang together. The bonus is that you don't necessarily have to explain any of it, because you is da boss. The downside is, Orks know what is and what isn't Orky and that's a line you'll have to try very hard not to cross.

    It kind of depends on what the Agent expects to be able to do. If your goal is to "Reform" the Orks, without genociding them and starting from scratch, then you'll have to be careful not to aim too high. If you can keep your expectations low, you may just acheive something.

    For example, Orks are for Fightin and Winnin. You can't have nonviolent Orks. You just can't have them. It's built in at a fundamental level. You could, though, perhaps steer the Orks to a point where they target a certain foe almost exclusively, or get them to the point where they will trade with other races and so on "peacefully" when they aren't actively waaaghing and/or off for a good fight. You might be able to get them to refocus some of their urges into metaphorical fightin' and winnin, steering their society from simple bloodshed as their method of resolving their internal differences towards bloody sports instead, but the net effect of that would just be more Orks.
    What does the Agent hope to acheive?

  4. - Top - End - #844
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    Also, the fact that 'Da Kulture' would have as much of any sort of paint as Orks want -- Lucky Blue, Sneaky Purple, Fast Red, Flashy/Dakka Yellow, Hardy Black, and then there's 'Green iz best'...

    That would be a verrryyy interesting way of interacting with the Ork Psychic field...

  5. - Top - End - #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    What does the Agent hope to acheive?
    In the short term, to study their society and be the ruler.
    In the medium term, use as weapon against Chaos.
    In the long term (with genetic engineering since it'll be deciphered by then), reform and civilization.

    A slow genetic drift over a very long period (a few centuries) might be enough to get the orks to start becoming more civilized. You start by reducing their aggressiveness by a small tolerable level, then once all the current orks die (which won't be too long), you lower it again.

    That's the plan for Large Sticks Speaks Softly. Some parts of the Culture might say that's making an entire new race, but Large Sticks Speaks Softly hopes to preserve some of their culture through the transition to make a race that can stand on its own.

  6. - Top - End - #846
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    Lets see... there used to be Ork Rokkas... and Shoutas... and Brewerz.. does anyone have that earlier list??

    Oooh, shiny blue would be very very lucky... since shiny is lucky, and blue is lucky...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-25 at 11:50 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    In the short term, to study their society and be the ruler.
    In the medium term, use as weapon against Chaos.
    In the long term (with genetic engineering since it'll be deciphered by then), reform and civilization.

    A slow genetic drift over a very long period (a few centuries) might be enough to get the orks to start becoming more civilized. You start by reducing their aggressiveness by a small tolerable level, then once all the current orks die (which won't be too long), you lower it again.

    That's the plan for Large Sticks Speaks Softly. Some parts of the Culture might say that's making an entire new race, but Large Sticks Speaks Softly hopes to preserve some of their culture through the transition to make a race that can stand on its own.
    I'm not entirely sure on this, but there's a distinction to be made here. It's not strictly speaking that Orks are aggressive. Berserkers of Khorne are aggressive. Orks just love a good fight. It's what they're about. I'm not sure that's something that could be changed. Not without eliminating Gork and Mork, and/or wiping out all existing orkoid life-forms in the galaxy first. They aren't, after all, an exclusively biological entity.

    Some of the rest of that isn't too far fetched though. It varies.
    Use them as a weapon against chaos? That's not mid-term.
    "Oi, you lot. We'z off ta fight da pointy boyz!"
    "WAaaaagh!"

    That's all that takes.

    But, yes. Orks don't rampage through the galaxy because they're angry, or because they hate everyone, or because they believe that Orks are the natural inheritors of the galaxy. They do it because Orks is made for Fightin' and Winnin. And actually, that should come across relatively quickly to the Agent. The Orks, when pressed on their opinions of the other factions would pretty much exclusively describe them in terms of how good a fight they are. No malice, (well, maybe a little if a faction is particularly well known for being cheatin gitz), no spite, no real urge for their destruction, just the constant urge to have a good fight with someone. Anyone. Everyone.

    If he wants to make them, long term, into less of a destructive swarm, he'd do better trying to redirect that theme than to limit or mitigate it.

    Edit: Oh, and it's probably worth remembering that there is often a thing in similar situations where enough exposure to orks and orkyness rubs off. This is played up in fanfiction more than in canon, I'm sure, but even in canon there are some hints that it could be a thing. There's a very, very real chance that if they hang out with the Orks long enough, and especially if they do what they have to in order to come across as Orky enough not for the whole thing to fail instantly, that even if they did manage to adjust the Orks, there would be a degree of meeting in the middle. Partly because of potential warpy-weirdness with the Orks and their gestalt field, partly because there is an element of genuinely honest truth in their outlook on the world. The Orks are the happiest and most honest and most joyful of all factions in the galaxy. Their philosophy is simple and more than a little persuasive. It's exactly the kind of thing that the Culture wouldn't expect to be effected by, but over a long term, I'd expect there to be a good chance that the Agent and Loud Stick Speaks Softly to take on some shared traits.

    Like, a focus on winning (which the culture in their arrogance already have a bit of a vulnerability to), a belief that because they have the power to, that they should (which the culture in their arrogance already have a bit of a vulnerability to), the idea that brute force or cunning can be used to solve their problems (which are the two methods the culture already uses. Either superior dakka or sneaky gittishness.)
    It would be slow, subtle, and not inherantly a bad thing if the culture succeeds in affecting their Orks for the better at the same time. It's not in the same bracket as Chaost infection either, mind you. It isn't as wibbly-wobbly, nor as dangerous in the grand scale of things. It's very much something to remember though, especially as the Agent's plan involves pretending to be an Ork for a few hundred years.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2012-11-25 at 12:12 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #848
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    A potential redirect could start with "The only fight worth fightin is other Orks" and from there slowly weasel whatever reform you want to their society. Maybe make them more like very boistrous Gladiators?

  9. - Top - End - #849
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    Probably the most practical solution to the Orks: Make some automated transport vessels. Grab a few hundred million of them at a time. Drag them out to the Magellanic Clouds. Exterminate/relocate all Orks within the Milky Way, removing them as a factor within this conflict. Let the Orks run rampant in an area of space without sentient races in, fighting each other and generally having a fantastic time. Run whatever social engineering programs you want from there.

    Essentially, transfer them to controlled conditions for lab work and preservation processes.
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  10. - Top - End - #850
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    Yea, except Orks are useful against Chaos! So there's that bit of info. If they can figure out why Orks are useful against and resistant to Chaos (maybe something about simple minds?)...

  11. - Top - End - #851
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    Isn't it because Gork and Mork beat up the Chaos gods every time they try?

  12. - Top - End - #852
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    Does anyone know what Gork and Mork actually do??

    Found an interesting explanation while looking for info on this, in another forum...

    "I've always understood it like this:

    Khorne does lay claim all loose psychic energy generated in relation to war and bloodshed, but the orks psychic energy does not fall into that category, nor can it be claimed by any of the Chaos gods.

    The orks psychic energy is all 'controlled' (for a given definition) and tied up in the WAAAGH!, or which Gork and Mork are a part. That is why they are largely uncorruptable (at least spiritually) by chaos, and why humans are so vulnerable.

    Human psychic energy is ALL loose and unfocused, they are easy prey for chaos.

    Eldar energy was mostly focused at their gods. They were well defended, it wasn't until the end of their empire that their decadence generated enough loose energy to generate a chaos god. They fell because they lost their purpose and focus.

    Orks psychic energy is almost entirely focused on being orky, on feeding the WAAAGH! field and thus Gork and Mork.

    Khorne, and the other chaos gods, can mostly only claim loose, uncontrolled psychic energy. For the longest time Khaine was a separate entity from Khorne, the focus of the Eldar's war focused psychic energy. At the birth of Slaanesh Khorne claimed Khaine and his portfolio, and thus gained access to the Eldar.

    As for the 'timeless' thing, while it may be true that time has no function in the warp, it does effect the ways in which the warp interacts with the materium. Before Slaanesh's birth he effectively didn't exist as far as the materium was concerned."
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-25 at 07:11 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #853
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    Well,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicanum, citing 4th edition codex
    Ork traits and emotions have a reflection in the warp the same as the traits and emotions of Humans and Eldar do. These Ork traits manifest in the form of the strong, belligerent, and indestructible Ork gods Gork and Mork.
    Also, we do know that they can have manifestations into realspace, because in previous editions there was a psyker power called "Foot of Gork" that literally was Gork stepping on the enemies, iirc.

  14. - Top - End - #854
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    Well,



    Also, we do know that they can have manifestations into realspace, because in previous editions there was a psyker power called "Foot of Gork" that literally was Gork stepping on the enemies, iirc.
    Well, it was a giant foot of green psychic energy. Whether that was a realspace manifestation of Gork or just a psychic construct is up for grabs.

  15. - Top - End - #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Well, it was a giant foot of green psychic energy. Whether that was a realspace manifestation of Gork or just a psychic construct is up for grabs.
    Those two aren't incompatible; what else do you call a God's avatar but a psyker construct?

  16. - Top - End - #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Does anyone know what Gork and Mork actually do??

    Found an interesting explanation while looking for info on this, in another forum...

    "I've always understood it like this:

    Khorne does lay claim all loose psychic energy generated in relation to war and bloodshed, but the orks psychic energy does not fall into that category, nor can it be claimed by any of the Chaos gods.

    The orks psychic energy is all 'controlled' (for a given definition) and tied up in the WAAAGH!, or which Gork and Mork are a part. That is why they are largely uncorruptable (at least spiritually) by chaos, and why humans are so vulnerable.

    Human psychic energy is ALL loose and unfocused, they are easy prey for chaos.

    Eldar energy was mostly focused at their gods. They were well defended, it wasn't until the end of their empire that their decadence generated enough loose energy to generate a chaos god. They fell because they lost their purpose and focus.

    Orks psychic energy is almost entirely focused on being orky, on feeding the WAAAGH! field and thus Gork and Mork.

    Khorne, and the other chaos gods, can mostly only claim loose, uncontrolled psychic energy. For the longest time Khaine was a separate entity from Khorne, the focus of the Eldar's war focused psychic energy. At the birth of Slaanesh Khorne claimed Khaine and his portfolio, and thus gained access to the Eldar.

    As for the 'timeless' thing, while it may be true that time has no function in the warp, it does effect the ways in which the warp interacts with the materium. Before Slaanesh's birth he effectively didn't exist as far as the materium was concerned."
    I like this. It fits and feels appropriate. It also provides fuel for the whole Starchild thing, ignore-conned or not, which I'm all about, so yeah. Consider this Head-canon'd.

  17. - Top - End - #857
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    Well, The Avatars of Khaine and the Bloodthirsters of Khorne have a huuuuuuge rivalry... they really hate each others guts, big time... so much that the battles between the two are really really scripted in the RTS games, with lots of crazy animations!

  18. - Top - End - #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Well, The Avatars of Khaine and the Bloodthirsters of Khorne have a huuuuuuge rivalry... they really hate each others guts, big time... so much that the battles between the two are really really scripted in the RTS games, with lots of crazy animations!
    I'm kind of less interested in the specifics of the Eldar bit. I think it's the weaker part of the explanation. At least, the Khorne/Khaine bit. The untapped psychic energy/birth of slaanesh bit makes perfect sense.

  19. - Top - End - #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Eldar energy was mostly focused at their gods. They were well defended, it wasn't until the end of their empire that their decadence generated enough loose energy to generate a chaos god. They fell because they lost their purpose and focus.

    Khorne, and the other chaos gods, can mostly only claim loose, uncontrolled psychic energy. For the longest time Khaine was a separate entity from Khorne, the focus of the Eldar's war focused psychic energy. At the birth of Slaanesh Khorne claimed Khaine and his portfolio, and thus gained access to the Eldar.
    I would get into the timeline of the different births of the Eldar gods but the timeline in 40K is sheer madness and best ignored.

    Now the big problem with this theory is that the Eldar are not affected by the other Chaos gods (anymore then they used to be anyways) and it is explicitly stated that Slaanash soloed their entire pantheon. (Except for two, kinda)

    A better way to state the first part is that while the Eldar properly worshiped their gods they were protected but as the fell they basically were worshiping Slaanash who came into existence via their actions and was so hyped up on power that it ate most of the other Eldar gods, gaining their stored power as it's own, but not their portfolios.

    Khaine and Khorne are separate entities. Khaine draws/drew his power only from Eldar directly worshipping him while Khorne draws power from all violence and bloodshed. Khaine is also pretty much only about styles and facets of warfare. Any emotion you experience in battle is expressed in a different facets (though perhaps that facet does not yet possess an Aspect of it's own.) though they are mostly ignored except how they make you better at fighting. Anyways Khaine certainly has survived the Fall, though he is in pieces. He actually does still draw power when an Exarch is fed into him, but the gain is minimal.
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  20. - Top - End - #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Edit: Oh, and it's probably worth remembering that there is often a thing in similar situations where enough exposure to orks and orkyness rubs off. This is played up in fanfiction more than in canon, I'm sure, but even in canon there are some hints that it could be a thing.
    I know in the DoW games, the Eldar admire Ork Kulture simply because their civilisation has found its true purpose and isn't bothered by any of the metaphysical/existential baggae that other races have.

    On a older canon note, Commissar Yarrick is reputed to be rather orky, even if he loathes them with every fibre of his being.

  21. - Top - End - #861
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    It's generally believed that Yarrick has become more than a little Orky, yeah. That said, this is probably a side effect of how he's spent a lot of his life - getting to know how the Orks hink, understanding them to the point where he can actually use psychology on them, that sort of thing. And since he's been fighting them for pretty much his entire life (literally, there's a short story that shows he starts fighting them at about age 9), he's had to think like an Ork for so long that it's starting to affect his broader judgement.

    Alternately, it might be a sort of reciprocal cycle type thing, with him being so Orky because the Orks think of him as Orky. The fight on Armaggedon has basically become the Orky version of Valhalla, and Commissar Yarrick (who can kill you with his eyes, who can sustain lascannon rounds to the chest, who once had his arm cut off and promptly got a replacement by ripping it off the nearest Nob and stapling it in place) has been accepted as the enemy boss who fights there. That means billions of Orks are convinced that One Eye Yarrick is the single most dangerous humie in the entire galaxy, and given how their warp field works, they might actually be making that correct.

    As with so many things in the 40k canon, the answer is probably 'all and none of the above'.
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  22. - Top - End - #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I would get into the timeline of the different births of the Eldar gods but the timeline in 40K is sheer madness and best ignored.

    Now the big problem with this theory is that the Eldar are not affected by the other Chaos gods (anymore then they used to be anyways) and it is explicitly stated that Slaanash soloed their entire pantheon. (Except for two, kinda)

    A better way to state the first part is that while the Eldar properly worshiped their gods they were protected but as the fell they basically were worshiping Slaanash who came into existence via their actions and was so hyped up on power that it ate most of the other Eldar gods, gaining their stored power as it's own, but not their portfolios.

    Khaine and Khorne are separate entities. Khaine draws/drew his power only from Eldar directly worshipping him while Khorne draws power from all violence and bloodshed. Khaine is also pretty much only about styles and facets of warfare. Any emotion you experience in battle is expressed in a different facets (though perhaps that facet does not yet possess an Aspect of it's own.) though they are mostly ignored except how they make you better at fighting. Anyways Khaine certainly has survived the Fall, though he is in pieces. He actually does still draw power when an Exarch is fed into him, but the gain is minimal.
    Yeah, I'd agree with this, pretty much. Talk of portfolios and stuff just always feels like someones trying to use D&D cosmology terms and rarely sits comfortably outside the brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    I know in the DoW games, the Eldar admire Ork Kulture simply because their civilisation has found its true purpose and isn't bothered by any of the metaphysical/existential baggae that other races have.

    On a older canon note, Commissar Yarrick is reputed to be rather orky, even if he loathes them with every fibre of his being.
    I'm pretty sure he's the guy I was thinking of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maugan Ra View Post
    It's generally believed that Yarrick has become more than a little Orky, yeah. That said, this is probably a side effect of how he's spent a lot of his life - getting to know how the Orks hink, understanding them to the point where he can actually use psychology on them, that sort of thing. And since he's been fighting them for pretty much his entire life (literally, there's a short story that shows he starts fighting them at about age 9), he's had to think like an Ork for so long that it's starting to affect his broader judgement.

    Alternately, it might be a sort of reciprocal cycle type thing, with him being so Orky because the Orks think of him as Orky. The fight on Armaggedon has basically become the Orky version of Valhalla, and Commissar Yarrick (who can kill you with his eyes, who can sustain lascannon rounds to the chest, who once had his arm cut off and promptly got a replacement by ripping it off the nearest Nob and stapling it in place) has been accepted as the enemy boss who fights there. That means billions of Orks are convinced that One Eye Yarrick is the single most dangerous humie in the entire galaxy, and given how their warp field works, they might actually be making that correct.

    As with so many things in the 40k canon, the answer is probably 'all and none of the above'.
    Yeah, as I understand it the thing with the arm is that, Imperial Science says it shouldn't work for the Ork but does. Given that it works for the Ork, it should at least not work for a human. What do you mean it works for Yarrick, that's, but...*Head asplode*
    So, yeah, definate Orkyness seepage.

    Seconding the All and None of the Above thing.

  23. - Top - End - #863
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    part 7.5 Orks
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    A trial attempt with an outcast tribe to make police-orks have failed, the trial was suggested by the SC agent when he was told the plan. While the orks understand a chain of command, vaguely, the idea of law enforcers seems to have made them react badly.
    The tribe declared him as 'un-orky' and promptly attacked him to the point of destruction. To prevent the 'news' of his 'unorkiness', the fleeing members have been silenced permanently.

    It appears that the SC agent's prediction of their behaviour is accurate.

    Week 2
    Further debates have begun to draw the lines of a split in classification of the orks in the Culture.
    So far, we are still the only ship to interact with the orks in a semi-long term fashion, other attempts meeting with an 'un-orky' label and implacable hostility and eventual destruction of the ork tribe.

    Thus far, our data is the primary source for these debates and the justification for the Orks-are-non-HS side lies mostly with our investigations.

    We must be careful to avoid the label of 'un-orky' or we stand a good chance of losing all potential of peaceful contact due to a mis-classification.

    Our new plan is to attempt to focus the orks' destructive tendency into their own culture to reduce their external hostility. The SC agent and his insight into the ork behavioural patterns have been consulted and he will be setting up a series of tournaments to establish his chain of command. Again in a contained trial. The risk of losing control over the whole lot is too much to run.

    It is hoped that the orks preparing for an internal tournament will be able to distract them and then some tweaks might leave their society with enough individual fights to mitigate their warring tendency.


    It has been noted that so far, during our observation, no Orks have been seen to be Chaos contaminated.

    Would the Orks tolerate a non-lethal competition? (or would it just turn out to be a lethal tournament anyway)

    Would the Orks even tolerate a tournament season where the orks fight for places in the chain of command? (mini-boss, boss, warboss, SC agent)
    The idea is that you might be able to channel their fighting into themselves so they don't rampage. If the entire society grinds to a halt to fight each other once a year, they'll never get anything done which suits the Culture just fine for now.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    The reason why using them as a weapon against Chaos is medium term is because they still want to study the orks first. It's not the problem of getting the orks to fight 'da spiky boys' but more a lack of willingness on the Culture's part.

    I've noted the infectious orkiness. At least I have time for hilarity.
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-26 at 11:07 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #864
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    They're orks. By defintion, any tournament season is going to resemble the Blood Bowl game, minus the football.
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  25. - Top - End - #865
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I'm not sure they'd entirely understand the whole non-lethal side. But then, they have no real problem with their being lethality, either.

    Take their motto, Orks is made for Fightin and Winnin.
    Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!
    So, yeah. Any sport or contest you set up will involve fatalities. Probably not to the point of wiping out the other team to a man, but it'll just happen as a natural consequence of Orks being Orks. That isn't to say that their expressing their Orkiness is exclusive to fatalities, you should just expect all contests involving them to be full contact, rules light and quite...exuberant. Though worth noting, they are unlikely to complain about results (even if one of the contestants/sides win via unfair tactics or breaking the rules, because Cunning is Orky too). So it would likely remain good natured, even with the violence and occaisional fatality (Da good bitz).

    Worth noting though, introducing internal conflict, even in a pseudo-controlled environment wouldn't noticeably decrease external violence because the Orks already fight other Orks, pretty much all the time. This is what makes a particularly powerful Warboss so terrifying, because they alone can get such numbers of Orks together without it devolving into Ork on Ork fun Fighting.

    So, yes. A tournament (Bloodbowl style sport, something with fast vehicles, gladiatorial fighting, that kind of thing) could work, but it would be and should be violent and there's no real reason to worry about it including fatalities because otherwise Ork population expansion will go insane and then you have Waaaghs all over the shop.
    There's also the problem of, if the tournament is sufficiently entertaining that Orks want to be a part of it, Orks will want to be a part of it and audience participation will happen. Building this into the rules in the first place might be wise.

    I'm not sure that any kind of tournament would be distracting enough to grind Ork society to a halt though. They aren't big on planning and preperation and stuff.

  26. - Top - End - #866
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Would the Orks tolerate a non-lethal competition? (or would it just turn out to be a lethal tournament anyway)

    Would the Orks even tolerate a tournament season where the orks fight for places in the chain of command? (mini-boss, boss, warboss, SC agent)
    The idea is that you might be able to channel their fighting into themselves so they don't rampage
    Any attempt to make it non lethal would be unorky and would end up lethal anyway. I don't know if it would be one season a year... Orks scuffle for rank pretty regularly. They might want to make the tournaments more common. Or perhaps an arena where tournaments and violent games of one sort or another (and orks can come up with a dizzying variety!) is pretty much constant. You'd see orks trying to make money selling squig snacks for teef, and all that other arena sport stuff, and orks fighting for good seats, etc. etc. ... it would be wild.

    But you might get a lot of the fighting in one particular place more than others.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-26 at 01:47 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #867
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Though considering how incredibly tough Orks are, what they'd consider 'non-lethal' is still an incredibly high bar of allowable violence. This is a race that can have its arm ripped off, use its own severed limb as a club, then go to a Dok after the fight to have the arm sewed back on - just a ring of stitches - and be good as new with a few days of healing. If you don't kill an Ork outright, it'll eventually work its way back into fightin' shape.

  28. - Top - End - #868
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    Kobold

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    And yea, you want lethal... due to the incredible rate of reproduction of Orkoid species and Orkish spores.

    Also, there should be some hilarity with the other Orkoid species... maybe some Grots/Gretchin realize he is a little bit... different... and start talking to him about equality and the proletariat and the means of production...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-26 at 02:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    And yea, you want lethal... due to the incredible rate of reproduction of Orkoid species and Orkish spores.
    Does death noticeably impact Orkish population rates? On their death Orks release a massive cloud of especially potent spores. Now they'll be passively releasing spores all their lives, but killing them off will have them releasing spores and bringing forth replacements very quickly.

    The Orkish population graph is always exponential, and there is precious little that can be done to curb it short of intentional extermination campaigns.
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    A human spectator who is enjoying a sports match might cheer and make exuberant gestures. An Ork who is enjoying a sports match will do that, and might also open fire on the nearest sportsman with a light machine gun while laughing maniacally. To them, this is an equally valid form of expressing social approval.

    It does have something to do with their innate resilience, true enough. Gahzgkull Thraka was shot in the head by a bolter round, and managed to quite literally hold his skull together with his bare hands until he found a Dok to nail an iron plate across the wound. The entire process actually appears to have made him smarter and more charismatic, at least by Ork standards.

    But yeah. Orks are not easily stopped from violence. The best anyone else has managed to do is point them in a particular direction, and even that hasn't always worked.
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