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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    He'll think they're insane - democracy's no way to run an empire, it'd all fall to pieces without someone in charge - but he'll go along with it as long as he has A) a way out (or thinks he does, whether or not they know about his bug-out plan), B) the aforementioned nest egg stashed away where he can bug out and get it, and C) an iron-clad guarantee that if it all goes balls up, he'll either get to come with them or be absolutely certain the Inquisition won't come after him once they're gone. Since they can easily provide all three, they've got themselves a pocket Rogue Trader.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    What you are saying is -- they want him to flat out defect from the Imperium, yes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinslayer View Post
    And the profit margin, and proof to present are...?
    The profit margin is infinity. He'll finish off as the commander of a fleet more powerful the everyone in the galaxy combined (minus the Culture).

    Proof:
    - We have tactical FTL, and so do you now
    - The nanobots and mass conversions can build anything you want, we have all the plans, and it can churn out a fleet faster than you think. Like, seriously, a Lunar won't even take a day
    - Your weapons travel FTL and a basic CAM launcher, which by the way is tiny compared to your honking big laser, has planet cracking power
    - We won't give you gridfire but you'll have effectors and Displacers, which are arguably more useful

    - If you want a demonstration, we can set up a dummy ship to let you fight a mock battle with using IoM tech and you can see for yourself how one-sided it is. (it'll fire dummy shots, you can go crazy; don't worry, you won't even scratch the paint)
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-01 at 10:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    What you are saying is -- they want him to flat out defect from the Imperium, yes?
    No, he'll defect regardless of whether he wants to or not. They can't let him go back to the Imperium with all that tech because it'll end up in Chaos hands. Especially not after the Chaos warband came after him yelling about the Culture. They don't want to destabilize the Imperium by letting them know there's some nigh-omnipotent aliens they can't touch sniffing around.

    They'll explain it to him, rather gently, that he can defect or they'll let him set up shop in some solar system and live like a king. But he's never going back unless he agrees to help.
    This also applies to the rest of his crew.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    So WHY do they want this guy to have, you know... a large part of the Imperium as his own personal fiefdom?

    Seriously? He cant be the ideal person to run a Sector or something. I don't have any idea why the inevitable loss of life might remotely be a good idea. WHY do they want him to become a private warlord, able to do whatever he wants??

    I get they can do it, but I don't see why they think it is a good idea!

    Ah, you ninjaed me...

    Also, you sure he should stumble across a Khornate group? They have the LEAST amount of future-reading and magic (Khorne hates the stuff...)
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-01 at 11:13 PM.

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    Because they need someone to go whack Chaos because they don't want to risk equivi-tech.

    The IoM reform plan:
    When they decide to reform the IoM, they need a puppet dictator (him) to make minimal waves. He'll strengthen central control, reduce bureacracy, crack the Ad Mech monopoly (there might be a problem with the Void Dragon around here) and generally simplify the system and make it more robust and less religious.
    Then they reveal themselves when they're sure the whole thing won't just crash and burn.

    So they can transition to democracy afterwards and then split it up over the course of about one generation while doing heavy social engineering. Once IoM culture is in line with something acceptable (which may take more than one generation), then they'll slowly bring up the tech level and absorb any section that wants to call itself the Culture.


    Aka. something like the Azad in player of games. Or at least, how it might have gone down if Gurgeh was playing for real and shooting for the Emperor job.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Hmm he might refuse to help anyways. Most Rouge Traders are actually pretty loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. Sure they may flat out ignore the laws sometimes but in a very real way they work to expand the Imperium and increase it's power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Also, you sure he should stumble across a Khornate group? They have the LEAST amount of future-reading and magic (Khorne hates the stuff...)
    ... *searches for an excuse*

    It's Tzeentch's fault! Yes, that works. =D

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    It's Tzeentch's fault! Yes, that works. =D
    Okay. That is actually a fantastic excuse (khornates are easy to manipulate!)

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Tzeentch manipulated some Khornites into being unwitting sacrificial pawns for him? Sounds good to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Hmm he might refuse to help anyways. Most Rouge Traders are actually pretty loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. Sure they may flat out ignore the laws sometimes but in a very real way they work to expand the Imperium and increase it's power.
    There's the other line too:
    "you have the chance to fight Chaos for the Imperium. You have the ability to do more than the imperial guard and space marines combined. You can be the most powerful person in the entire IoM apart from the Emperor."

    I mean, they can also explain that the Culture is determined to reform the IoM eventually. He can along with their plan and the Imperium may not suffer stupid amounts of casualties, or they come in and take it over overtly like they did the Azad and it _will_ suffer stupid amounts of casualties.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Tzeentch manipulated some Khornites into being unwitting sacrificial pawns for him? Sounds good to me.
    Lol. It does give Tzeentch the chance to see how powerful the Culture is militarily. Even if he's testing the strength of a spin-off side, seeing the Khornate group get trashed ought to make some waves and perhaps bring forward the contacting the Culture schedule by quite a bit.

    ...
    Then again, I'm being too logical about Tzeentch, aren't I? =(
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-01 at 11:27 PM.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Tzeentch can be logical... sometimes... in limited subsets of his plotting. There will just be some other Tzeentchite faction with yet another scheme that happens to interfere.. maybe.

    Disclaimer: I've never actually read a 40k book, but that seems to fit all the discussion I've seen.

    Also, based on discussion and wiki articles, it seems to me that Chaos likely will - eventually - unite in a true concerted effort against The Culture. This will happen when the Chaos Gods become convinced that The Culture represents a genuine threat to their existence. I'm basing this on the fact that they did, as I recall, unite into a cohesive force to back Horus against the Emperor. When this happens, I would expect Tzeentch to temporarily drop the usual self-hindering portions of his scheming. This, plus the focused attention of pan-Chaos forces, should be the single greatest challenge 40k can present to The Culture. That's still a looooooooong way off, though, as it will take something on the scale of Emperor-in-his-prime-class psychic power or a feasible plan to permanently close off the Warp galaxy-wide to provide such a credible threat. As I recall, there is some indication that the Necrons might have had a plan for closing off the Warp before they lost the power to implement it, possibly involving mass production everywhere of the Cadian pylons, but that plan is of dubious canonicity.

    On a random side note, the Chaos Gods draw their power and characterization from the minds and activities of the multitudes of mortals as I recall, and they all have major positive aspects as well as negative ones. It might occur to a Mind at some point to attempt to reform Chaos itself by deliberately starting and fostering an extremely large Chaos cult that is specifically devoted to the positive aspects of each Chaos God. I believe the concept of such a plan is sound, but it would suffer from enormous problems with practical implementation - the cultists might influence the Chaos Gods, but they would also be opening themselves up to Chaos influencing them, and unless the cult started out with sufficient magnitude to dominate it would quickly get twisted towards the existing dominant aspects of Chaos. The Eldar would no doubt point this out if consulted (and the Mind would immediately back down from such a risk), but it might spark some interesting discussion.
    Last edited by douglas; 2012-11-02 at 12:02 AM.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Lol. It does give Tzeentch the chance to see how powerful the Culture is militarily. Even if he's testing the strength of a spin-off side, seeing the Khornate group get trashed ought to make some waves and perhaps bring forward the contacting the Culture schedule by quite a bit.

    ...
    Then again, I'm being too logical about Tzeentch, aren't I? =(
    Tzeentch is extremely logical. It's just not always logic that a human brain is capable of following. It doesn't literally deliberately screw itself over at every opportunity. In this case, manipulating a Khornate warband into 'scouting' for it is a pretty base-level plan, so it's also likely to be straightforward in its intentions. Tzeentch likes win-win situations, and whether the Khorne-worshippers win or lose, it wins.

    And yeah, Rogue Traders are loyal to the Emperor. If the whole plan is presented as an effort to reform the Imperium, bring it back to its glory days and dig it out of the quagmire it's in, he'll be cautiously on board, particularly since he gets filthy rich and powerful as a side effect. Outright telling him they plan on getting rid of the Imperium and replacing it won't go over nearly as well.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-11-01 at 11:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Come to think of it, what are the Eldar's attitude towards the IoM?

    If the Culture ask the Eldar for their opinion on the reform the IoM plan, what are the likely responses? (which will likely be along the lines of how to manipulate it to their advantage)

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    I can't help but feel that installing a puppet dictator and attempting to reign in the religious aspects of the Imperium as quickly as a single generation is a recipe for widespread civil war and the fragmentation of the whole thing.

    I wouldn't claim it's not what the Culture would try, but I'm really not sure it's a plan that will avoid major casualties.

    Also, installing a Rogue Trader as a puppet anything seems to be a hilariously risky and naive plan, given that they tend to be incredibly arrogant, mildly deranged space pirates (who spend their career in the full knowledge that they basically have a permission slip from God telling them they can get away with most anything).

    Any plan that involves making a Space Pirate the absolute ruler of anything that doesn't end in either tears or hilarity is a plan that I feel needs looking at again because I just don't buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    I can't help but feel that installing a puppet dictator and attempting to reign in the religious aspects of the Imperium as quickly as a single generation is a recipe for widespread civil war and the fragmentation of the whole thing.

    I wouldn't claim it's not what the Culture would try, but I'm really not sure it's a plan that will avoid major casualties.

    Also, installing a Rogue Trader as a puppet anything seems to be a hilariously risky and naive plan, given that they tend to be incredibly arrogant, mildly deranged space pirates (who spend their career in the full knowledge that they basically have a permission slip from God telling them they can get away with most anything).

    Any plan that involves making a Space Pirate the absolute ruler of anything that doesn't end in either tears or hilarity is a plan that I feel needs looking at again because I just don't buy it.
    One way Jseah could play it is that while the Culture normally prefers to do things slow and subtle over the course of a couple dozen generations the IoM is perpetuating oppression and atrocities on a scale the Culture has never witnessed before and can't stand watching so many trillions of innocent people suffer and die while they do things the slow and steady way. Even so I agree that a puppet dictator doesn't feel like their style at all, certainly not their first resort.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Come to think of it, what are the Eldar's attitude towards the IoM?

    If the Culture ask the Eldar for their opinion on the reform the IoM plan, what are the likely responses? (which will likely be along the lines of how to manipulate it to their advantage)
    Stupid primitive space monkeys who play their stupid primitive space monkey games while the intelligent and enlightened races (i.e., Eldar) go about doing important things, pretty much. It's hard to understate Eldar arrogance when it comes to anyone who's not Eldar - the only time they care about anything the Imperium does is when it has a chance of threatening one of their Craftworlds or Maiden Worlds.

    One way Jseah could play it is that while the Culture normally prefers to do things slow and subtle over the course of a couple dozen generations the IoM is perpetuating oppression and atrocities on a scale the Culture has never witnessed before and can't stand watching so many trillions of innocent people suffer and die while they do things the slow and steady way. Even so I agree that a puppet dictator doesn't feel like their style at all, certainly not their first resort.
    Or that their Minds have run the odds and realized they've already passed the 'crisis point' of intervention versus complete hands-off - sooner or later, Chaos will get their hands on Culture equiv-tech no matter how many precautions are taken, and if Chaos is still a legitimate military threat when that happens, the Culture has pretty much doomed everyone in the galaxy.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-11-02 at 12:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Come to think of it, what are the Eldar's attitude towards the IoM?

    If the Culture ask the Eldar for their opinion on the reform the IoM plan, what are the likely responses? (which will likely be along the lines of how to manipulate it to their advantage)
    Varies from Craftworld to Craftworld. One common unifying theme is disdain. Generally they don't like the Imperium and very much consider them a lesser civilization. At best the Eldar are reluctant teachers to the Imperium, in trying to inform the idiot humans on how to be civilized. More often the Eldar consider the Imperium to be useful if dangerous pawns to soak up damage that would otherwise require Eldar lives. At worst they consider the Imperium to be an infestation that'll one day need to be cleansed when the Eldar return to power.

    They might just say the Culture is wasting their time. However if the Culture insists well they might say the most important thing to change is the anti-xenos stance of the Imperium. There isn't a good way to do that without leading to a civil war or slaughter of millions.
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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    The Eldar really aren't that much further from a HS than the Necrons are, in that regard. It's definitely something to make the Culture even more uncomfortable about potentially taking a side in that eons-old conflict, especially since they and everyone else involved would know they were the kingmakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    My personal suspicion is that it would be entirely possible to ease the Imperium of Man out of it's rabidly Xenophobic hatred of aliens.

    All it would really take is encountering an alien race who didn't have designs on the Imperium's planets, who weren't happy to murder Humans when it was convenient/funny/distracting, who didn't feel the need to tell humans how to do things or have any intention of advancing their own species at the expense of humanity. Maybe this theoretical race could spend its time swooping in to particularly dire battles and aiding Humanity fend off the nightmarish forces of Tyranid/Chaos/Ork/etc without asking for anything in return.

    In essence, what the Imperium of Man needs is a big hug and for it's new friend to say "It's okay to be you."

    But the Culture is not the race to do this. Their first response is to neutralise humanity, manipulate it into their way of thinking, maybe install a puppet dictator so they can alter the fabric of human society at their leisure. All for the best reasons of course, but that's kind of beside the point.

    After all, the most benign factions in the setting are Eldar and Tau. One of which as mentioned above, might cheerfuly go back to exterminating humanity in order to reclaim their own empire the moment they feel they have the power to spare and the other of whom, despite spouting attractive noises about the greater good is still quite cheerfully following a course of territory expansion and so on.

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    Default Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The Eldar really aren't that much further from a HS than the Necrons are, in that regard. It's definitely something to make the Culture even more uncomfortable about potentially taking a side in that eons-old conflict, especially since they and everyone else involved would know they were the kingmakers.
    Well according to the messed up time line we get, the Dark Age of Technology happened before the Eldar Fall. Which doesn't really make sense but okay sure. Anyways this means that the Humanity built up it's first civilization and the Eldar didn't try and wipe them out or anything like that.

    Also since you sort of brought it up. Orks were almost certainly made to be a weapon. Eldar we're not sure. They share the same creator as the Orks but they may have been created first and not necessarily as a weapon.
    Last edited by Forum Explorer; 2012-11-02 at 01:30 AM.
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    Ok, so. Strategic Analysis time. From the perspective of the Culture and their overall goals.

    "Who knows what" is not in play, I'll alter it for circumstance as proper. This is purely in terms of long term goals.

    The Culture
    The Culture's goals are happy fun times for everyone
    - They wish to see everyone in the galaxy have a freedom-based culture where people's actions are restricted as little as possible, as long as they do not restrict the freedoms of others.
    - They want nothing more than to have other people adopt a freedom-based culture and call themselves part of the Culture. But they can keep their name if they want

    Misc. goal: Reduce warp sensitivity in general, propagate all methods to reduce warp exposure

    Classifications and attitudes:
    Chaos - High threat; steps to understand, control and neutralize will be taken; open war

    IoM - Imperialistic state; behaviour and culture undesirable;
    -- Situation highly fragile; target for reform, medium priority
    -- Highly susceptible to Chaos, active intervention to detect and destroy Chaos intrusion in IoM recommended

    Tau - Possible cooperative society; civilization and culture restrictive but acceptable
    -- Situation progressive; target for reform, high priority due to anticipated ease
    -- Chaos resistance

    Eldar - Medium threat; high control of civilization (more than IoM);
    -- Situation stable; attempt reform cautiously, low priority, possible chance of success over eon-length time frame
    -- Unlikely to be Chaos vulnerable

    Necrons - Medium threat; ridiculous levels of control of civilization
    -- Situation stable; reform unlikely, attempt over long time frame
    -- Chaos-immune

    Tyranids & Orks - Low threat; HS, no reform possible; research and exterminate

    Dark Eldar - Medium threat; civilization undesirable; reform unlikely...
    -- borderline HS?
    -- Unlikely to be Chaos vulnerable

    The Eldar
    Friendly initial contact
    Most concerned over Culture vulnerability to Chaos
    Dislikes Culture's "friendliness" to Necrons
    Offended that Culture treats them as equals
    Suspicious of Culture technology, or outright rejection
    Wary of Culture military power
    Common goal of containing Chaos
    Wary of Culture's stated goal of containing the Warp
    Cultural dislike of "lesser races"

    Goals:
    Survive unchanged for the next million years
    Re-establish Eldar empire (optional)
    Genocide the Necrons

    Necrons
    Dislikes Culture's initial intrusion
    Dislikes Culture's social structure
    Dislikes Culture's use of organic life
    Dislikes Culture's "friendliness" to Eldar
    Wary of Culture military power
    Shares common goal of the extermination of Chaos, Tyranids, Orks
    Aligned goals of shutting off the Warp (the Culture may help or not depending)
    Aligned technological base

    Goals:
    Re-establish Necron empire
    Genocide the Eldar
    Complete Warp-separation plan

    Tau (I talk in terms of what is likely to happen)
    Friendly initial contact
    Some shared social goals, some disagreements; likely Culture society aligns with Tau's long term social goals or sounds like utopia
    Likely technological synergy (Tau warp-deadness; and imagine the speed of using Tau warp-skimming in Hyperspace... yo, I heard you like FTL, so we put an FTL in your FTL)
    Wary of Culture military power - Modified for friendly stance
    Share common goal of extermination of Chaos, Orks, Tyranids
    Dislikes Culture "friendly" contact with Necrons
    Dislikes Culture meddling

    Goals:
    Expansion of the Greater Good
    Military power to resist enemies
    Prosperity and success

    Imperium of Mankind
    No general knowledge of the Culture's existence
    Xeno!
    Wary of Culture military power
    Dislikes Culture "friendly" contact with xenos
    Dislikes Culture social structure
    Dislikes Culture violation of sovereignty
    Share common goal of extermination of Chaos, Orks, Tyranids

    Goals:
    Stability
    Worship of the God Emperor
    Expansion of Human space

    Tyranids & Orks
    Dies

    Goals:
    Waaagh!
    Nom Nom Nom

    Chaos
    Tzeentch - Massive power boost from sudden increase in excessively complicated plots
    Slaanesh - Large power boost from non-extreme hedonism
    Khorne - Dislikes happy fun times, Culture surgical strikes against Orks and Tyranids are too clean and neat
    Nurgle - Power drop from Culture curing of disease
    All - Action in material severely curtailed

    Open war with everyone
    Internal war between factions

    Goals:
    increase warp exposure
    prevent Culture from spreading independence from the Warp and propagating warp-resistance technologies
    acquire Culture technology
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-02 at 05:08 AM.

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    part 6.5 Necrons - Fallout continued
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    So Much for Subtlety indicated that the Necron history has some missing details. The Necron Lord refused to clarify for no specified reason.

    Some additional details from the history were clarified however, and it appears that the Necrons are also hostile to Chaos. The Necron Lord stated that the Necrons were at war with the Old Ones, who used the Warp, and that the Eldar were the Old Ones' 'pet' civilization.
    While this explained the extreme difference in character and technology base of the Eldar and Necrons, as well as most of their hostility, this did not explain how the Necrons intended to deal with the Warp.

    Some common ground was found between our "war" with Chaos and the Necrons desire to see the Warp dealt with.

    Would the Necrons even mention they have the ability to suppress or nullify warp connections? Especially if the Culture express an interest/common goal in reducing Chaos?
    Eg. Null matrix generators, Monolith Phalanx and that sort of thing

    EDIT: they clearly won't give it to the Culture, but say, if the Culture proposed a technology trade...? With some clearly valuable technology like good AI (basically, non-insane Necrons) and a more stable bio-transferance technology (Culture can convert humans to drones and back)
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-02 at 06:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Nurgle - Power drop from Culture curing of disease
    Nurgle is A-OK. Honestly, even if the Culture has wiped out all of it's... Native diseases, Nurgle mixes up with a bit of Warp Oomph when he wants to lay down the smack.

    ...

    Plague of Unbelief vs. Culture. Let the trololo begin.


    Doubtful that Necrons would trade anything, under any circumstances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinslayer View Post
    Plague of Unbelief vs. Culture. Let the trololo begin.
    Trapdoor protocol -> Transmission of disease fails
    Disease incurable by standard methods -> Reload from backup

    Reload from backup alone has the ability to eliminate any disease (including those that affect the soul, since we agreed you get a new one when you reload)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Trapdoor protocol -> Transmission of disease fails
    Disease incurable by standard methods -> Reload from backup

    Reload from backup alone has the ability to eliminate any disease (including those that affect the soul, since we agreed you get a new one when you reload)
    How does reloading from a backup eliminate the disease? As far as I understand burning the bodies doesn't do much to an actual nurgle plague.

    And if the trapdoor protocol is venting it into space, what if it enters spore form before it's vented and burning it only causes the release of more spores, and it can propagate in vacuum? This is a magic disease, it does not need to follow rules.

    Of course, I'd still venture that it'd require it's presence to immediately show up in a dense population area to even have a chance at mass propagation.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-11-02 at 07:23 AM.
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    The Mind can easily detect unusual biological going ons (and the citizens themselves will report it, unplanned body changes being non-existent). The Trapdoor protocol lets the Mind isolate anything in the ship it doesn't like, meaning nothing gets in or out of an area it designates.

    Spores aren't something that would be missed and would be captured for analysis. Destruction is likewise simple.

    Reload from backup implied a full replacement of body and mind. The Culture just builds a new body and loads the mind-backup into it. The infected body is destroyed (likely taken apart for analysis or rendered down to component elements)
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-02 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    The Mind can easily detect unusual biological going ons (and the citizens themselves will report it, unplanned body changes being non-existent). The Trapdoor protocol lets the Mind isolate anything in the ship it doesn't like, meaning nothing gets in or out of an area it designates.

    Spores aren't something that would be missed and would be captured for analysis. Destruction is likewise simple.

    Reload from backup implied a full replacement of body and mind. The Culture just builds a new body and loads the mind-backup into it. The infected body is destroyed (likely taken apart for analysis or rendered down to component elements)
    But it's a magic plague, it propagates in emotion. IF Nurgle were to unleash a plague he'd do it through one of his component emotions that were strongly present in the group.

    In most cases, love of the Emperor, allowing his plagues to curse the followers of who he calls "The Corpse God", while leaving his own legion untouched by the more immediately lethal of his plagues.

    Warp viruses propagate through love, and compassion, much in the same way AIDS propagates off the very thing that it meant to fight it.

    However, I do question if the cloning process isn't a moving of the soul when they transfer their identity as opposed to the creation of a new one.
    Last edited by Fan; 2012-11-02 at 08:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan View Post
    Warp viruses propagate through love, and compassion, much in the same way AIDS propagates off the very thing that it meant to fight it.

    However, I do question if the cloning process isn't a moving of the soul when they transfer their identity as opposed to the creation of a new one.
    Description of Nurgle's viruses on the Lexicanum seems to indicate proximity causes transmission. In a biological attack, this is exactly what will not be available.

    And we agreed that it's creation of a new soul since the Culture can have more than one of the same person active. The "reload" doesn't have anything to do with the body or the person who died. In essence, all citizens have a clone of their mind states (and past revisions) sitting on a Culture ship and if they need to, they can turn any one of those into a new citizen with the same personality, skill and memories as the guy had when he had the backup made.

    Eg. those SC agents who died on the Necron planet? Yeah, they got reloaded even though nothing came back from the planet.
    That drone who got transdimensional Maze'd? Yeah, it got reloaded too. And it'll get a reload even if it was an organic. And the original isn't even dead yet.


    Yeah, they CAN make a whole army who are all the same person, network their intelligence, amalgate learned skills and memories into the same person, anything you can imagine. They just don't do it without asking because it wouldn't be ethical.
    The Culture can engineer intelligence at a fundamental level. Identity is not important.


    ...
    I have a feeling, that to the Minds, identity isn't even really a thing anymore. In Player of Games, Hub Subsection is a section of the Mind in charge of the Ringworld Gurgeh lived on. After talking with it a bit, he managed to pique its interest so much Hub Entire started to talk to him.
    Both "Subsection" and "Entire" didn't seem any different and they clearly share the same memory. Dynamically changeable networks of intelligence!
    Spoiler
    Show
    'Hub here; Makil Stra-bey Mind subsection. Jernau Gurgeh; what can we do for you?'
    <...>
    'Gurgeh, this is Hub Entire speaking here; not a subsection; all of me.
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-11-02 at 08:47 AM.

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