The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction

[jseah]

part 6.5 RT - Fallout

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The Rogue Trader, having stabilized the situation on both ships, has taken the chance to assume command over the Lunar. The crew of the Lunar were not happy at the change but none of them were commanding officers and there was no contest to the small, but heavily armed, cadre with a backup Navigator the Rogue Trader sent over to take command.

Explanations were demanded from Aisha for her superhuman combat performance. It appears that the Rogue Trader has noticed that the nanobots that were supposedly not able to build hyperspace drives could do so. He demanded to know her connection to the Golden Goose, whose stealth had dropped for a few minutes, and what she was attempting to bribe him with.

He demanded that Aisha subject herself to a test of her not being a daemon in disguise. This test involved showering her with a bowl of "holy water", which chemical analysis showed to be mostly water with some non-poisonous trace chemicals. Aisha agreed and nothing unexpected happened. This seemed to satisfy the crew and the Rogue Trader.

Golden Goose made a decision to tell him about the the GCU and Aisha's connection to the Culture and the intended plan for him to be the first trial to recruit a militant arm of the Culture from the IoM to fight Chaos.
A basic introduction of the Culture, our government style and notes on Chaos, was given. We did not mention or hint at our interest in reforming the IoM, only mentioning that we were willing to look and recruit allies to fight against Chaos wherever they could be found. There was no mention of the Culture's penetration into IoM space.
Mention of our hyperspace and nanobot construction provoked some suspicion about "xenotech". We did not mention Displacers or Effectors or the use of non-organic intelligences.

As previously agreed, we turned over control of the nanobots to the Rogue Trader. This was confirmed by him holding Aisha on a yatch without communications and using them to manufacture a lasgun. Nevertheless, he still remains suspicious of them.
In an attempt to mollify him, we also gave him construction plans for ammunition and IoM starship weaponry reverse engineered from scans of the Forge Worlds.

We requested that we sent a proper ambassador to negotiate with him but this was denied.

I think even a daemonic creature might have been a bit much for an SC agent, even with a GCU effector to back her up. I'm downgrading it to a Chaos Spawn. That one is still dangerous but certainly possible for her to kill.
There is also that while the storm in the warp is there, it isn't in realspace, so Daemons might be a bit hard to justify, what with Gellar Fields operating on the ship (they are fighting Chaos after all, so even if its a fight in real space, it would be an obvious move to turn them on) and so on.


Also, does the RT know how to make holy water? At least the type that would be expected to burn daemons. The Culture are interested in it for obvious reasons.

Next post in 1 hour, regardless of any replies or not, I need to start sleeping earlier now.


Ok, since he's displayed suspicion (and Aisha would not have missed it) it is unlikely the Culture would reveal the full extent of its power and plans for the IoM. Or at least, not yet.
So far, they have just told him they want someone to whack Chaos for them.

After all, you don't actually need to tell him to take the IoM over, he is probably greedy enough to attempt to get significant holdings once he has the strength to, if only to serve as a backup in case the nanobots fail.

And even if he doesn't make a bid for the IoM directly, a bubble faction that is closely related, and definitely more friendly to the Culture (or at least bribeable) would be a useful thing to have. Not to mention that if he expands, he'll have to fight Chaos eventually anyway.

[jseah]

It's worth pointing out again that Rogue Traders are an incredibly diverse group. You need to create the character of the Rogue Trader a little more. Is he somebody who worked their way up from the gutter, with the warrant as their crowning glory? Somebody who failed on a grand scale and took the Warrant as a sort of exile? Part of an ancient dynasty of Rogue Traders? Is he a xenophile? A man motivated by honour? Legacy? Or is it all about the lucre?

There is no standard set of reactions for Rogue Traders, except to the extent that there is a commonality of all humanity.

Fair enough. Hmm....

Having him sign on with the Culture completely would be a boring way to end this. So let's have his history be something like this:

A man who was once some mildly experienced but okay-ish cruiser captain who stepped on the toes of someone higher up, let's say the Eccelesiarchy. One independent command mission, he had to deal with a xenos situation and didn't blow them out of space, instead negotiating, and they had the excuse to get rid of him.

Due to politics, he couldn't be bumped off quietly, so the politico decided to exile him by offering him the Warrant of Trade.
(I read on Lexicanum that it would be suicide to refuse, even for pretty well-to-do nobles - I admit, this is mostly the reason why it's like this, I just wanted to use this =P)


So what that means for his character:

He's probably pretty loyal to the IoM since he was a fleet officer. This also explains his fast (for IoM) appreciation of the tactics afforded by the hyperdrive.

He probably has a few friends and an enemy who are still keeping tabs on what he's up to.

He's not too adverse to dealing with xenos, not quite toeing the party line of "burn Xeno!" but still suspicious. (had to be at least this accepting of xenos or he wouldn't take the hyperdrive at all)

He probably has a personal dislike for politics, but is proficient at negotiation, which certainly helps him be a successful RT.

----------------

Someone can name him if you want. =D

[Forum Explorer]

did we miss 6.4 or did you just skip over it?


Holy water needs a holy man to bless it. That's all there is to it really. Or dipping a holy artifact in water would do as well.

[Gavinfoxx]

Making Holy Watter requires actual blessings from, you know... priests. The type that burns daemons, as well as lots of other items of faith that work, are basically capital-M Miracles. If they can get historic video of (say), Sisters of Battle fighting, they can see regular examples of Miracles of faith. And there is also lots of archival footage of Real Miracles (up to and including resurrecting people) in the various databases they have, even outside of the Sisters of Battle.

Yes, this is a setting in which Miracles and Faith work, and no one knows the mechanism, and it is dramatically different than standard Warp-reality-changing or Psyker stuff...

A concerted effort by the culture to examine databases and recordings and measurements of sanctified things and Miracles would probably let them figure out that yes, they are real and measurable, no, they don't seem to interact with the warp in similar patterns as other methods, and that they are somewhat difficult to replicate (it requires a certain level of faith), though there are a large number of notable patterns in the type of miracles and the sorts of societies and sorts of beliefs that can bring them about. Sort of a, 'yes, this stuff is real, but it requires structuring of a society and individuals to be a certain way to bring it about, and we can't really structure our society to do this with any regularity. At the very least, we can classify and quantify this sort of thing, so we know what to do and how to act when we encounter it, and educate our more faithful, religious, and ritually-inclined citizens that it is possible and real in this galaxy, and offer them resources to maybe try and do these sorts of miracles if they are interested, of course within the structure of their particular faith. One thing that is very obvious is that aping the Imperial Faith's methods of doing this will not work in our case.'

[jseah]

Yes, this is a setting in which Miracles and Faith work, and no one knows the mechanism, and it is dramatically different than standard Warp-reality-changing or Psyker stuff...

=(

I passed over reading Sisters of Battle as I thought it was just another IoM war army thing for IoM women.

did we miss 6.4 or did you just skip over it?

No, I don't see anything missing? Is there some sort of gap?

The Chaos ships were all gone and the fight was over as of the end of yesterday's update.

[Gavinfoxx]

But yea, Priests, Sisters, Clerics, Missionaries, Saints... there is a ton of stuff in the Ecclesiarchy that does Actual Miracles. Yes, there is a ton of stuff that is passing off something else as Actual Miracles, but that doesn't mean that Miracles of Faith don't exist in this setting; they most certainly do.

Also, I, of course, edited the post just above yours...

Sorry for giving you a bunch more reading to do! ;)

[The Glyphstone]

=(

I passed over reading Sisters of Battle as I thought it was just another IoM war army thing for IoM women.


No, I don't see anything missing? Is there some sort of gap?

The Chaos ships were all gone and the fight was over as of the end of yesterday's update.

The Sisters are specifically the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy, the Imperium's priesthood (there are female Imperial Guard troopers, but those are different). SoBs are famed for their utter fanaticism and devotion to the Imperium, to the point where their faith can literally cause supernatural events to occur, Miracles of Faith.

This sort of thing also happens at smaller scales...that holy water,for instance, was simply water with trace chemicals. But if it had been splashed on a daemonic entity, it would have burned like potent acid, because it had been blessed by a priest who believed.

[Forum Explorer]

=(

I passed over reading Sisters of Battle as I thought it was just another IoM war army thing for IoM women.


No, I don't see anything missing? Is there some sort of gap?

The Chaos ships were all gone and the fight was over as of the end of yesterday's update.

Sister of Battle are actually really cool.

As far as I can tell the RT had just destroyed the two Iconoclasts and was getting cocky and was beginning riskier tactics.

[Gavinfoxx]

And note that there are plenty of non military Miracles that happen from the Ecclesiarchy; the SoB is just the group that invokes most of the militarily-relevant miracles.

[jseah]

=( Do we have a reference for their miracles? Lexicanum doesn't state it.

Should I dig out the computer game again? I don't recall them having miracles in it, but then I just shelled them from crazy range with Earthshakers. =D


Also, you might have missed post #221.

[The Glyphstone]

The page on Imperial Psychic Powers has a short blurb about Acts of Faith used by the Sisters.

[Gavinfoxx]

Unfortunately, you might have to go look at the 3e Codex Witch Hunters and the 5e Codex Sisters of Battle. The Dawn of War games that had the Sisters as a playable faction had a bunch of Miracles, especially in the missions where you attacked their stronghold...

There's also several Miracles in the various novels, though I will have to actually try and look those up...

[Forum Explorer]

weird that I couldn't see/kept missing that post. Thanks for linking to it.


Khorne wouldn't do anything, but if one of his Champions managed to kill an SC agent they'd be greatly rewarded.

Just look at the codexes for Acts of Faith. That's the best source for Sisters of Battle.

[Gavinfoxx]

Some Dark Heresy RPG books that talk about Faith include Blood of Martyrs and The Inquisitor's Handbook, with a little bit in Ascension...

[jseah]

part 6.5 RT - continued

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Week 3
The Rogue Trader has completed repairs and both ships are now mechanically spaceworthy, although massive crew shortages are hindering function on the Lunar. He has continued negotiations while enroute to a Hive World to employ new crew.

We have put forward our requirement that he not leak the technology to the IoM or Chaos, fearing destabilization of their society and technology leakage to Chaos. The Rogue Trader has agreed to this, but demanded that we aid him in any further military actions and Golden Goose agreed to do so, but only at extreme range and without any direct contact.
We also refused to attack anyone other than Tyranids or Chaos.

We also stated that he is not to attempt engaging Chaos under such unfavourable conditions again, and that we most certainly did not want to see Chaos armed with a hyperspace drive or worse, the nanobots. He agreed to this.

As he began to apply the nanobots to repairing the two ships under his command, using the construction plans for the parts, the negotiation turned to future actions.

He demanded, for each confirmed kill of a Chaos ship, that we provide a major technological breakthrough, on the level of his nanobots. Eventually, we negotiated to give him one significant technology per warband engaged, regardless of the result.
Given the IoM aversion to even simple autonomous AI, we offered to provide automation and performance refinements to all his major equipment along the lines of the IoM technology base. This is estimated to increase his effective range by 30%, reduce gridpower and manpower requirements by nearly 60%.
A down payment of the construction plans for all IoM frigates and light cruisers we had come across, as well as an asteroid mining platform was agreed to.
Construction plans for antimatter containment and propulsion for missiles was rejected. He did not wish to take on any more "xenotech" apart from the hyperdrive. We appear to be constrained to working within IoM technological principles. Nevertheless, we are optimistic that favourable odds can still be obtained if we could devise method to develop a scanner that could obtain a lock on targets while the Rogue Trader's ships remained in hyperspace.

While we are certainly not going to provide him with so much technological advances for each combat, he is unlikely to meet many Chaos warbands in the near future. And bringing up his access to advanced technology would more allow him to engage Chaos ships more effectively.

This a fine balance to strike. We cannot afford to continue bribing him so extravagantly, but at the same time, a repeat of this disastrous battle would be extremely unfavourable. We had only one safeguard, the Golden Goose destroying the Firestorm directly, before Chaos might have gotten a working hyperdrive. The lack of need to use the final option was mere chance.
This level of risk, while understandable for a first attempt at striking against Chaos, is unacceptable for the long term.

We are of the opinion that Golden Goose should immediately provide him with optimizations to his standoff weaponry, namely lance batteries and torpedo launchers, to prevent such a disaster. In particular, methods to increase his striking range or ideally, to attack from hyperspace, should be made if we do not wish a repeat of this.
We await a more in-depth analysis from the main fleet since there is no rush in this matter.

A more functional working relationship to ensure his continued cooperation in hunting Chaos warships without requiring such large technological transfers (particularly after all the technology he requires to field his own fleet is given) would be ideal.

And that's the end of the RT arc for part 6. Man, alot of time is spent going places rather than doing things.

So, Aisha barely avoids getting Eye'd (which is still in the offing if/when he decides to scram), and the Culture are paying through the nose for his next battle. Paying with a promise to develop IoM technology along IoM lines to avoid crossing beyond archeotech, aka, we do your research for you.

The RT might see fighting Chaos as a way to redeem his honour, if only to himself (Warrants don't go away, like ever). But he's probably never going to be this reckless again.
And probably would make it a condition that he not fight except on stupid levels of advantage. Hyperspace drive alone is not enough.


What are his possible reactions now that he has time to think about the Culture? (they have given him a background on how their society operates)

How much will he trust an unknown xeno's combat capability? Especially if they refuse to tell him about it.
-- me thinks, probably not at all. It was just something he demanded in exchange for doing what the Culture tells him that he was already going to do anyway.

Now knowing a bit more about how much the Culture want a standoff militant arm, how likely is he to accept?


How is Khorne going to react to a bunch of IoM ships zipping around with tactical FTL? And that mystery xenoship his guys couldn't see.

How are the Eldar going to react to a fight over an Exodite world? Or are they going to just go "mon-keigh doing mon-keigh things"?

[Gavinfoxx]

Some faith examples, from other people I was chatting with:

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Person 1: in terms of background- check the Gaunt's Ghosts series. In a specific example, Major Gol Kolea of the Tanith 1st, suffered serious brain damage on Phantine (completely wiping his memory and personality). On Herodor, he took carried the spine-smashed trooper Mkvenner into balneary said to have healing powers, and blessed by at least one saint.

Said saint (Sabbat) had recently reincarnated, and baptised both MkVenner and Kolea in the waters. Both rose from them whole and able-bodied/able-minded

Person 2: but there is an arguement to be had about whether or not faith based powers are just another kind of warp power( which they obviously are) its much more similar to the way demons draw power to shape the warp from the chaos gods, than any seperate usage of the power of the immaterium

Person 1: in Kolea's case, that included restoring his memories, although the doctors examining him found that there hadn't been any repairs of his brain damage- he should still have been a vegetable

Standoff weaponry, yea... torpedoes, improvements of macrocannon and lance, SUPPLYING of quality torpedoes... That works well.

[jseah]

Thinking about the holy water, this is precisely the sort of thing that the Culture would dismiss as superstition. So while they might be interested and go dig it up at a Ministorum temple somewhere, they wouldn't get any effects with it and it doesn't fit with the Warp theory and...
EDIT: and unlike Chaos or the Warp, this isn't widespread and it isn't all that obvious

So basically, this would get thrown into the "IoM culture" bin. At least until it bites them, not quite painfully, but at least surprisingly.

[Gavinfoxx]

That sounds plausible. Arrogance biting them in the ass, yea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCj9MJ5orwo

Here's a let's play of the mission... badly done, but eh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZijV_581op8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65LCQM8Pw3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WReC-a85t24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7GSNGmTciA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOCA2w_nah4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtE5_gM_AeY

This guy does kinda suck... he's all I can find :( ...

Maybe a speed run would be more helpful!

[Misery Esquire]

How is Khorne going to react to a bunch of IoM ships zipping around with tactical FTL? And that mystery xenoship his guys couldn't see.

Khorne doesn't react to things, niether do any of the gods, really. They let lesser daemons who still care about that sort of thing go out to play, while they float around in the Warp enjoying being a God. They do send out daemons to thier best mortal whorshippers, but they don't really bother pondering what's going on out there (outside of thier portfolio) until something registers as an actual Warpthreat.

Anyway, the main hilarity to do with Faith that I'd like to see is the Culture and Orks. Clap-if-you-believe.

[The Glyphstone]

Khorne doesn't react to things, niether do any of the gods, really. They let lesser daemons who still care about that sort of thing go out to play, while they float around in the Warp enjoying being a God. They do send out daemons to thier best mortal whorshippers, but they don't really bother pondering what's going on out there (outside of thier portfolio) until something registers as an actual Warpthreat.

Anyway, the main hilarity to do with Faith that I'd like to see is the Culture and Orks. Clap-if-you-believe.

That's much easier to quantify, because it's a genuine psychic phenomena that actually fits fairly well into jseah's 'patterns of reality' metatheory.

[Gavinfoxx]

In the RPG's, with the Faith Talents, you can generally do things like spend a Fate Point (a VERY limited meta-resource!) to Repel Daemons, to Heal someone, to inspire fearlessness and heroism, and things like that.

[Water_Bear]

A man who was once some mildly experienced but okay-ish cruiser captain who stepped on the toes of someone higher up, let's say the Eccelesiarchy. One independent command mission, he had to deal with a xenos situation and didn't blow them out of space, instead negotiating, and they had the excuse to get rid of him.

Due to politics, he couldn't be bumped off quietly, so the politico decided to exile him by offering him the Warrant of Trade.
(I read on Lexicanum that it would be suicide to refuse, even for pretty well-to-do nobles - I admit, this is mostly the reason why it's like this, I just wanted to use this =P)

I have a really hard time seeing the Imperial Navy not airlocking him for that on the spot. Even if they didn't, the Administratum Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition (Ordo Xenos) would all have some serious questions. The kind they usually don't ask until after people have been safely incinerated.

Personally, I would back the Xenophillia off a bit though. Maybe if he was already from an RT Dynasty he could pull that sort of stunt and survive to take the helm, but in the Imperium proper actually negotiating with aliens is a death sentence. A better incident might be winning a major battle by using a nearby bit of xenotech once and then turning it over to the AdMech. That way it's clear why they want him in command of a fleet and why they would have to drum him out of the service officially; winning the wrong way is Rogue Trader territory, but vile heresy for most anyone else.

One more thing I'm not sure has been made clear; Rogue Traders are agents of the Emperor and a part of the Imperium's government. They have a lot of free reign, are often little better than privateers running colonial joint-stock trading companies, but they are still loyal and faithful, just not as much as the average Guardsman or Sister of Battle. I'd be shocked if an RT didn't figure out that the Hyperdrive FTL was Heretek/Xenotech/Warpcraft within the first minute of it being described, and more so if he was dumb enough to turn it on.

[Selrahc]

I have a really hard time seeing the Imperial Navy not airlocking him for that on the spot. Even if they didn't, the Administratum Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition (Ordo Xenos) would all have some serious questions. The kind they usually don't ask until after people have been safely incinerated.

It makes sense to me. I'm envisaging him as a rising star in the Imperial Navy, tipped off for high command and an admirals chair before getting embroiled in this. The Ecclesiarchy are not in command of the military, and it is certainly not unknown for the various hierarchies of the Imperium to be fiercely clannish about protecting their people from other branches. So a rising star does something that delivers a fantastic victory... but with dubious moral side effects. Something that other officers(Or indeed inquisitors.) may privately agree with. That then gets picked up and blown out of proportion by agitants on both sides, creating an untenable position of political brinkmanship. In fact there may be even be hush hush indications that he undertook this controversial action on the counsel of an inquisitor, something that can't be leaked to the public and which won't deflect the moralizing calls for his head. The RT position represents a climb down that both sides can basically accept...

but they are still loyal and faithful,

Huff! This is the party line, but it's certainly not universally true.
Rogue Traders *commonly* use Xenotech. Normally just a few trinkets, as a symbol of their exotic mystique. But even full shipwide refits along Xenos lines, or fringe AdMech stuff is pretty common. RT ships are havens for fringe thinkers of all stripes. A high ranking admech is likely to be a Magos Erratum, obsessed with some non-mainstream views that make him persona non-grata. A cogitator sage is likely to be of a mad-thinker type. Criminals and brigands and pirates have all held the warrant in the past.

[Gavinfoxx]

*snip*

Yea, I don't really agree with most of that. Sure, they are nominally a part of the Imperial government... and RT's often use xenotech stuff, often openly; they are mostly loyal to themselves! You have a weird understanding of RT psychology...

[Tiki Snakes]

Huff! This is the party line, but it's certainly not universally true.
Rogue Traders *commonly* use Xenotech. Normally just a few trinkets, as a symbol of their exotic mystique. But even full shipwide refits along Xenos lines, or fringe AdMech stuff is pretty common. RT ships are havens for fringe thinkers of all stripes. A high ranking admech is likely to be a Magos Erratum, obsessed with some non-mainstream views that make him persona non-grata. A cogitator sage is likely to be of a mad-thinker type. Criminals and brigands and pirates have all held the warrant in the past.

Yes.
After all, isn't this specifically the kind of thing that the Rogue Trader warrent is there to cover? It's a permission slip from God giving the RT free reign to do as he likes, within certain lines, but those lines are far more liberal than for almost any other person or group in the imperium.

Also, the implied involvement of Inquisitorial factions in the RT's backstory is not a bad idea, actually. I'm sure one of them would be appropriately interested in setting up a Rogue Trader who was willing to use Xenos tech and/or deal with Xenos.

[The Glyphstone]

And it provides for interesting future story potential, if the RT actually does have/had a Radical Ordos Xenos contact. If he does Eyeball Aisha and bug out with his nanotech and hyperdrive, the first place he'll run if he doesn't think he can just hide from the Culture is back to his patron, to share his goodies and give the warning about dangerous humanoid xenos with ridiculously powerful technology.

[jseah]

And while it might not be universally true about RTs being loyal to the Imperium, this RT at least holds *some* loyalty. He just wasn't xenophobic enough for their tastes.

Remember that the Culture would have picked an RT who wasn't a rabid fanatic and was willing to tolerate some xenotech. So even if most of the RTs were not willing to take on xenotech, there is a selection effect operating here.

And it provides for interesting future story potential, if the RT actually does have/had a Radical Ordos Xenos contact. If he does Eyeball Aisha and bug out with his nanotech and hyperdrive, the first place he'll run if he doesn't think he can just hide from the Culture is back to his patron, to share his goodies and give the warning about dangerous humanoid xenos with ridiculously powerful technology.

And after that... after that, the problem starts.

More likely, it will lead to a straight up contact situation where the Culture blow up the tech they gave him and then open negotiations with the IoM proper.
Except of course... well, you'll see what happens in part 7. =P

[The Glyphstone]

And while it might not be universally true about RTs being loyal to the Imperium, this RT at least holds *some* loyalty. He just wasn't xenophobic enough for their tastes.

Remember that the Culture would have picked an RT who wasn't a rabid fanatic and was willing to tolerate some xenotech.


And after that... after that, the problem starts.

More likely, it will lead to a straight up contact situation where the Culture blow up the tech they gave him and then open negotiations with the IoM proper.
Except of course... well, you'll see what happens in part 7. =P

Can they remote-detonate their technology like that at any range?

[jseah]

Can they remote-detonate their technology like that at any range?

Golden Goose is tailing him in hyperspace.

While he will get away with it in the Warp, he can't really go anywhere without running into a Culture vessel eventually (especially since he still doesn't know where the Culture guys are, much less suspecting they have a ship hanging around outside Sol!). This lets him astropath about the Culture, but it doesn't let him turn the tech over.

And no, it's not remote detonation. They'll just actively destroy it via Effector.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, will you get another update in tonight?? I'd be interested in The Culture Meets some Orks or something. Or more Necrons. Or Ordos Xenos doing something. Or The Culture gets to some nearby minor xenos empires (we can presume Naiads are relatively nearby or something, right? As long as it doesn't contradict canon...? Or that Trade Empire. You could make up the information about them wholesale...) Or Culture meet Dark Eldar or other Eldar spinoff groups (ie, non dark Eldar Pirates). Dark Eldar LOVE to trade and allow citizens from other societies on their vessels... I think there is an interesting story about 'cultural exchange' in the Dark Eldar Codex...