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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    I have been surfing through a lot of Giantitp threads recently and I happen to read this one, by Thurbane, asking people to make a "Better Ogre Mage".

    I love this monster, like many, and it makes me sad to see how bad it is in play. (It is not the worth but it is all over the place, probably (surely) over CR'd for what it is and you can barely do anything otherwise than being invisible, use your spell-like ability: Cone of cold, pray to survivre one turn, turn invisible and run/fly away.

    That's not what we want. We want this big ogre to be able to fight. With a big sword. And to cast spells (Or spell-like abilities) more than once a day.

    Because you guys are beyond knowledgeable of this 20 years-old game and became very creative after so many editions of Iron Chef, I have a new challenge for some of you...

    MAKE A PLAYABLE "OGRE MAGE"

    (There is nothing to win here so do not expect a trophy or anything. I'm sorry.
    Except... Maybe... you know... Being the person that made the ogre mage fantasy into a playable character... Which is cool. Right?
    )

    This is going to feel way less official and kind of rushed in comparison of some real challenges you can find here but I wanted to try something.

    THE RULES:

    1. No third party, no Dragon Compendium, no Dragon mag. Bonus point if you do not use too many different books. The less the better.

    2. Must be playable from 1 to 20: It can have high and low, have a sweet spot, but do not make a build that comes online at like 18th level. Once again the objective here is to make a PRACTICAL AND PLAYABLE build, so... Enjoyable as much as possible, at any level. (Not like the Savage Species' progression of the Ogre Mage... Remember that thing has 5HD (37hp) at ECl 12... Hard to do worse than that honestly)

    3. Ogre mage...-y: The character must feel like an Ogre Mage. Except you do not have to be an Ogre. Bonus point if you make one tho.
      What I mean by "feel like" an Ogre Mage is a strong, beefy race or template. Preferably Large but it is not mandatory.
      For example, remember that being large can be problematic in most games because of how dungeons are designed and because not many combats happen in an empty field.

    4. The character must be able to fly. Via a spell, via a racial, a class feature... Whatever. But it must be able to fly. Bonus point if it lasts all day and/or is at will.

    5. Must be STRONG! Preferably not via many buffs. Remember that not every fight can be scouted and/or you know what you are going to fight and when... So if you need 3 turns to be competent, it is going to be problematic. (Try to avoid Persist Spell cheese via DMM, Incantatrix, Spelldancer... Otherwise you would just have to cast Polymorph, transform into an Ogre Mage as a wizard... Where is the fun in that?)
      It can be via your race ability modifier (Orc, Half-Ogre, Goliath...), a template (Half-Dragon, Half-fiend, savage...)... Bonus point if the "all-day" character is strong,

    6. Regeneration: It is really difficult to get as a player character. Items giving that are overpriced and there is not many way to get it. Fast healing is a good alternative, but there is plenty of other solutions to get your HP back every round. The more it looks like a real regeneration, the better. Bonus point if it is passive and last all day. (Not via Lesser Vigor for example)

    7. The earlier, the better... But do not forget the scaling... As for the 1-20 rule, if you get everything that makes your character an "Ogre Mage" at ECL 18, it is going to be a bit sad. Bonus point if you have some key abilities of the Ogre Mage early. (Some are really easy to get tbh)

    8. Respect your Wealth by Level. Try not to have crazy items at first level or a ring of regeneration (Which is wasted money anyway) at ECL 5.

    9. Don't have to be OP... Just playable. Not like the original thing...

    10. Have fun. (You have no choice) Bonus point if you really do. (You can take pictures of yourself having fun, or asking your relatives to send me a pm telling me you had fun while doing this challenge.)

      TL;DR: Make a "Big" flying guy, fighting with a weapon and casting spells... Sounds like a gish... Isn't it?


    You must have noticed that I said the character must be playable from 1 to 20... But I mentioned Template and races with level adjustments.
    There are rules to compensate that in the Player's guide to Faerun ("Lesser" versions of some races and the rule that give you cumulative -1 for each LA until you reach the ECL you should have had to begin with) and some Savage Progression template. (You might have to go find them in the archives tho)
    Try to justify how the character got the template if it is an acquired one... For example the Mineral Warrior, you must be at the service of the caster of the spell Mineralize Warrior for 1 year. Which, in practice is not very... convenient.

    Bonus points:
    • Having Spell-likes abilities. Any from this list: Darkness, invisibility, charm person, cone of cold, gaseous form or sleep.
    • Originality: Obscure item to emulate a part of the build, obscure race, a bit of fluff/backstory...


    EDIT: Forgot the link.
    Last edited by Condé; 2023-04-07 at 06:19 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Since this isn't really a contest contest, is it fine if we openly brainstorm right here in this thread?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Since this isn't really a contest contest, is it fine if we openly brainstorm right here in this thread?
    I'd say so. It's an interesting thread idea but I can only figure out how best to do part of the build

    Ogre (4HD, 2LA)
    1: Dragontouched
    Flaw: Dragon Wings
    6: Improved Dragon Wings

    That, with Sandals of Vagabond for 4K, gives us permaflight. I'm not sure how to do nonmagic flight with less feats or a flaw feat.

    For casting, I'd consider going Stalwart Battle Sorcerer. Sorcerer is the favourite class of Ogre Mage and the Stalwart and Battle sorcerer archetypes give you the equivalent of a d12 for hit dice, which makes for a nice tanky caster, not to mention weapon proficiencies, Weapon Focus, and the increased BAB.

    Not sure how best to achieve the other parts of the build though.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    A Magic-Blooded (Dragon #306) Unseelie Fey (Dragon Compendium) Primordial (Secrets of Xendrik) Half-Ogre (Dragon #313) Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (Savage Species) has stat modifiers of Str+6,Dex+6,Con+0,Int+2,Wis+2,Cha+6, natural armor+11, tail attack, Blindsight 60', Darkvision 60', Low Light Vision, Invisibility as an at-will SLA, Winter's Touch Su, Fly 60'(average), DR/Cold Iron that grows with hit dice, and 3 Fey hit die with LA+0.

    For levels, something like: Fey 3/Stalwart Battle Sorcerer <n> seems reasonable. Use the available spell slots to pick up Gaseous Form, Sleep, Charm Person, Cone of Cold, and Darkness.

    Add to that Toughness (via a flaw) and Troll-blooded to get regeneration 1 / fire or acid. Then pick up Improved Flight at 3rd level to improve your maneuverability to (good). Maybe pick up Practiced Spellcaster at level 6 to boost your caster level.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    The fly speed of a real ogre mage is a Su ability, so I don't think we need out flight to be nonmagical.

    Dragon magazine was explicitly disallowed.

    A real ogre mage also has Change Shape, so maybe a changeling, or that ACF from Mind's Eye would be appropriate.

    If Fast Healing is close enough to Regeneration, the Feral template wouldn't be too prohibitive in cost.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Dragon magazine was explicitly disallowed.
    Ah, I missed that.

    A Feral Baleen Whale has abilities Str+12, Dex+2, Con+6, Int-4, Wis+6, Natural Armor+9, and scaling Fast Healing with LA+1. Maybe Monstrous Humanoid 3/Generic Divine Spellcaster <n>? Use spells known to cover all the magical abilities.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    If you want an easy and elegant solve, you can take the reviewed LA of Ogre Mage of the LA Thread

    If you apply the Savage Progression to that newly applied LA, you get only 2 "dead levels" instead of the 7 you actually have making it playable out of the box :) That's how I'd do it

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Since this isn't really a contest contest, is it fine if we openly brainstorm right here in this thread?
    I do not have enough real authority and legitimacy to make a real contest. Let's say it is an interest check and a good exercise. I would really like to make some kind of contest like Iron Chef. But I don't know if many people would be interested by what I have in mind. IC is already kinda niche and time consuming.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    I'd say so. It's an interesting thread idea but I can only figure out how best to do part of the build

    Ogre (4HD, 2LA)
    1: Dragontouched
    Flaw: Dragon Wings
    6: Improved Dragon Wings

    That, with Sandals of Vagabond for 4K, gives us permaflight. I'm not sure how to do nonmagic flight with less feats or a flaw feat.

    For casting, I'd consider going Stalwart Battle Sorcerer. Sorcerer is the favourite class of Ogre Mage and the Stalwart and Battle sorcerer archetypes give you the equivalent of a d12 for hit dice, which makes for a nice tanky caster, not to mention weapon proficiencies, Weapon Focus, and the increased BAB.

    Not sure how best to achieve the other parts of the build though.
    Interesting. You can use the Ogre savage progression from Savage Species to start at ECL 1, which is cool. You started a very "Dragon-y" build here. I have made one last night, see below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    A Magic-Blooded (Dragon #306) Unseelie Fey (Dragon Compendium) Primordial (Secrets of Xendrik) Half-Ogre (Dragon #313) Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale (Savage Species) has stat modifiers of Str+6,Dex+6,Con+0,Int+2,Wis+2,Cha+6, natural armor+11, tail attack, Blindsight 60', Darkvision 60', Low Light Vision, Invisibility as an at-will SLA, Winter's Touch Su, Fly 60'(average), DR/Cold Iron that grows with hit dice, and 3 Fey hit die with LA+0.

    For levels, something like: Fey 3/Stalwart Battle Sorcerer <n> seems reasonable. Use the available spell slots to pick up Gaseous Form, Sleep, Charm Person, Cone of Cold, and Darkness.

    Add to that Toughness (via a flaw) and Troll-blooded to get regeneration 1 / fire or acid. Then pick up Improved Flight at 3rd level to improve your maneuverability to (good). Maybe pick up Practiced Spellcaster at level 6 to boost your caster level.
    Aaaah, yes. Template stacking. A classic. Many problems with that is that you are using a lot of Dragon Mag and Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale which start with 3RHD... And sadly, even in the book where it came from (Savage Species), there is no Savage Progression for these races. Why? I don't know. It would have been great if you could start the game as a small/medium baleen then acquire some Monstrous humanoid HD and become stronger and large... but no... No. You cannot do that. (It is not hard to homebrew. But you have to homebrew... Since there is nothing RAW that allow you to do that I believe).

    But I think I can guess why you love Baleen Whale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    The fly speed of a real ogre mage is a Su ability, so I don't think we need out flight to be nonmagical.

    Dragon magazine was explicitly disallowed.

    A real ogre mage also has Change Shape, so maybe a changeling, or that ACF from Mind's Eye would be appropriate.

    If Fast Healing is close enough to Regeneration, the Feral template wouldn't be too prohibitive in cost.
    The feral template is an obvious and strong method, sure. But... It is an inherited template. I am not sure the negative LA rule from PGtF would apply here since your race is technically not what gives you the LA. So you might not be able to start at ECL1. Which isn't a big issue but can be problematic for a lot of hypothetical people who start at level 1. (They are many!)

    MY CONTRIBUTION (Mostly brainstorming here with you guys)

    1. Warlock route


    This one was inspired by Troacctid. In her Warlockopedia there is a build called "Prehistorlock" focusing on hitting hard with a big stick then slowly switching to a beefy fear support.
    Warlock invocations can get us fly and invisibility at will, as a spell-like ability. Which is fantastic.
    Be a Goliath, using the Negative LA rule at level 1 and buy out your LA at level 3. Grab a big sword and find a way to get some regeneration, fast healing... It lacks depth but I think this is a good start.
    Like in the Troacctid build, bonus point if you are using Hideous Blow (Maybe with Supernatural Transformation... Is eldrith blast eligible? Perhaps... Ask your DM)

    Pros
    + Invisibility at-will (Sp)
    + Fly at-will (Sp)
    + Mean, naturally strong and can swing a Large Sword without penalty without being Large itself. (No reach tho but you can grab a reach weapon for hideous blow if you can't take Supernatural Transformation)

    Cons
    - Atm, no burst sp or spell. (Eldritch blast is your ranged option, like an early wizard and its loyal bow)
    - No Regen/Fast healing

    1. Shifter Route (Or MoMF)


    Wizard or any caster getting 3rd level spell at 5 + Shifter. Some might argue that Shifter has been replaced by Master of Many Forms. I must admit it is probably the same class upadated with a new name. But since we cannot be sure, let say it's not.
    Why the Shifter? You do not need wildshape to enter, just to have 3rd level spells. We can be a wizard, take Invisibility and Fly and call it a day. Then at 6, we enter Shifter and grab some interesting forms. Shifter do not get Ex abilities, sadly... But do not need Wilding Clasps since Greater Wildshape allow us to keep our equipment AND it scale with us automatically. (Free Sizing, yeah!)
    You want to chose the break point, 1st level is a bit limited since you only get small/medium humanoid forms. But at third level you would have Greater Wildshape 3/day (3x3hours) Large to Tiny humanoid, animal, monstrous humanoid and plant shape. You can go as far as 4th level to grab giant if you want to feel even more like an ogre by... Being one.

    EDIT: You might appreciate the MoMF route for the Ex abilites the Shifter do not get. A convenient way to grab some Regeneration. But you would need to have wildshape as a Class Feature.

    Pros
    + Invisibility (Spell)
    + Fly (Spell)
    + Can alter its form like an Ogre Mage (But way better actually)

    Cons
    - No real burst (You are hurting your Caster Level for maybe 3 level)
    - No Regen/Fast healing
    - Everything is limited in use and time.

    Not really fan of this one. But it has potential.

    1. Ogre Dragon-Mage



    Invisible Fist Monk 2 (Immediate Action invisiblity) / Duskblade 3 / Talon of Tiamat X
    Pros
    + Invisible with a cooldown but as an immediate action, which is great for defense.
    + Swift Fly (Spell) / Swift Invisbility
    + Breath weapons in place of Cone of Cold.

    Cons
    - Not really ogre-y.
    - No Regen/Fast healing
    - Everything is limited in use and time, invisiblity at-will but with a CD.
    - Probably weak sauce.

    Need a lot of work. Might be interesting to take a look at the Iron Chef entry of Talon of Tiamat to grab ideas.

    1. Anthro Ape ToB


    Swordsage or Crusader + Wizard/Sorcerer + Jade Phoenix Mage

    Pros
    + At will maneuvers for invisibility.
    + RHD are worth 0.5 initiator level. (I believe)

    Cons
    - Do not start at ECL1
    - No fly?
    - No regen.
    - Not really Ogre-y

    It is more like an idea, but I think we can make something fun out of this.

    1. Ogre Cheese-Mage


    Any Fey Race (Killoren, Duskling, Feytouched Savage Progression...) [Bonus point if you are small. See below]
    Grab a class with Appraise and Craft as Class Skills.
    Stoneblessed at ECl 3. Take the Goliath route.
    Suck for 3 levels.
    Take Barbarian Goliath ACF.
    Grab a Barbarian/Spellcasting PrC (Rage Mage if you want to suck even more, or Runescarred Berzerk (Might be hard to meet the pre-req) or Champion of Gwynharwyf etc...
    Buy a FleshShifter Armor from BoVD.
    Take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat from SS.
    Alter self as a Pixie.

    You now are a Small Fey with permanent Greter Invisbility who can rage and become Large while still being invisibile. No LA.
    (If your DM rules items are not enough to take feats, don't worry. Grab some wizard levels and Alter Self. You now have the spell. You will never cast it since you will have it at-will with the Fleshshifter Armor.)
    Enjoy.

    Pros
    + Dumb.

    Cons
    - Dumb.
    Last edited by Condé; 2023-04-08 at 05:05 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Condé View Post
    I do not have enough real authority and legitimacy to make a real contest.
    I would really like to make some kind of contest like Iron Chef.
    I don't see why you couldn't.
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    I don't see why you couldn't.
    Mostly time and as I said I don't know if people would be interested
    So you might consider this thread as an interest check.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Condé View Post
    Mostly time and as I said I don't know if people would be interested
    So you might consider this thread as an interest check.
    Time is issue, yeah. (((
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Irda from Dragonlance Campaign setting?

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Prime32's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    I've lost my notes, but an approach I've tried for this kind of thing is special "monster templates" which can only be applied to specific builds (often ones with horrible synergy or levels in an NPC class), functioning as a combination of an LA +0 race and a PF-style class archetype. It gets you a few more utility abilities, and allows you to keep advancing your racial abilities through class levels.

    E.g. Ogre required a certain number of levels in the Barbarian and Commoner classes, and had a racial ability which made their rage always active (both getting them high physicals and enforcing the "dumb brute" status better than an Int penalty would).
    Ogre Mage was a higher level Warlock-dipping-Barbarian which received constant rage bonuses at no penalty, and added new invocations to the list it could select from, but also lost the Eldritch Blast class feature.

    IIRC Vampire was based on Bard/Druid and converted bardic music into an at-will gaze attack.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2023-04-08 at 02:42 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Anyway, here's an attempt
    • Start with an eneko, an LA +1 Giant from Secrets of Sarlona. It's Medium with Powerful Build, and gets +2 Str/Con, -2 Dex/Cha. Goliath and half-giant also work if eneko is unavailable.
    • Apply the primordial giant template from Secrets of Xen'drik. This is an LA +0 template for giants which nerfs physical stats, boosts mental ones, and grants some nice magical abilities.
    • Apply the half-ogre template from Dragon #313. This grants Str +4, Int -2, Cha -2, and increases your size to Large (while retaining Powerful Build!) for further ability score adjustments
    • Take the Troll Blooded feat (Dragon #319) at 1st level.
    • Be a single-class warlock, taking invocations like charm, darkness, fell flight and walk unseen. Better yet, be a dragonfire adept - this gets you the same invocations plus humanoid shape, superior flight, and Frost Breath to replicate cone of cold.


    This gets you

    Ogre Mage (Half-ogre Primordial Eneko)
    • Giant type
    • Abilities: +10 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int
    • Large size: -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +8 bonus on grapple checks (Powerful Build included), lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
    • 30ft speed
    • Magical Knack (Ex): An ogre mage uses all spell-like abilities at +1 caster level
    • Spell-like Abilities (Sp): At will - invisibility (CL 1st); 1/day - endure elements, pass without trace (CL = 1 + half level); includes bonus from Magical Knack
    • Powerful Build (Ex): The physical stature of ogre mages lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever an ogre mage is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the ogre mage is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. An ogre mage is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An ogre mage can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
    • Troll Blooded: An ogre mage has regeneration 1 overcome by acid and fire damage, but is fatigued while exposed to sunlight.
    • Proficient with longbows
    • +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
    • Darkvision 60ft and low-light vision
    • +4 natural armor
    • Skills: Ogre mages receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft and Use Magic Device checks
    • Favored Class: Ranger or Warlock
    • Level Adjustment: +2


    If starting at higher levels (when you can handle things through invocations) you can swap the racial invisibility SLA for invisibility purge or levitate instead.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2023-04-08 at 03:26 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Lesser Mur-Zhagul is pretty cool chassis for "Ogre-Mage". Look at Monster Mash VIII gold medalist.
    If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    This is a neat little challenge. I'm not one for full builds, but an easy and obvious setup would be something like...

    Half Ogre (beeg, but still humanoid, Savage Species version only)
    Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, Starspawn ("natural" flight, +5' of additional reach, from Lords of Madness, absolutely fabulous book)
    Dragon Shaman 1 (fast healing 1 all day every day, works up to 1/2 max HP, from PHB2)
    Warlock (zapping, invisibility, darkness, mist, etc! Hideous Blow kinda sucks but would be very flavorful for this character to use, CArc)

    And really, that oughta cover it. You're stuck with a +1 LA and your first real class level is garbo but you have enough "oomph" from stats to be more than passable in melee. You can create magical darkness at level... three, I believe? And invisibility comes to you not very long after that. Being able to fly means aerial bombardment is likewise on the table at level 6 (at the latest, but that's ECL 7 in this case; flaws make flight available at level 1, however, which is pretty nice but also useless at that point, but having is better than not), and in the end you have a very passable ogre-ish mage. Not perfect, but hey, all of these abilities are at-will, so that's gotta count for something! And this is without any gear whatsoever, of course. I know that there exists an easy way (or three) of getting Disguise Self at will, of course, and if you're really pressed about getting invisibility at all times then dipping over into the Invisible Fist Monk after getting "regular" invisibility from Warlock would allow you to do a simple
    (Become "regular" invisible for X turns)
    (Attack)
    (Use IFM invisibility now that you're revealed)
    (Activate "regular" invisibility on next turn and refrain from attacking further until IFM invisibility is available again)
    (Repeat)
    routine to give your DM lots of grey hairs.

    Pretty sure Half Ogre is NOT a template in SS, also, but on the off chance my memory is faulty that'd mean Changeling could be the base race for even more equipment-free abilities, which is a fun thought.

    I'd say that probably covers it... oh, and of course, Hideous Blow adds a lot of damage to a melee attack, which our Half Ogre is particularly adept at compared to most other warlocks. Not optimized at all, but I think it sounds fun.

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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    I'll pick up on the warlock idea:

    Warlock 5 > Escalation Mage 6 > Mindbender 1 > Master of Many Forms 2 > Hellfire Warlock 3 > Warlock 6-8

    (we qualify for MoMF with our Wild Shape Amulet; see Ancestral Relict)

    Dragonwrought Kobold

    Skill: max UMD

    Feats:
    1: DWK
    3: Sudden Widen
    6: Mortal Bane
    9: Draconic Aura: Vigor
    12: Ancestral Relict (Wild Shape Amulet)
    15: Mindsight
    18: Supernatural Transformation: Eldritch Blast

    Invocations:

    Lest:
    Summon Swarm
    Darkness
    Devil's Sight

    Lesser:
    Invisibility / @lvl 18 Charm Person
    Fell Flight
    Hellrime Blast


    Greater:
    Eldritch Cone
    Painful Slumber of Ages
    Devil's Whispers


    Dark:
    Retributive Invisibility
    Path of Shadows

    We start as lil dirty DWK warlock with warlock's Summon Swarm (standard action!) which will easily carry us through the early levels. Invisibility combos well into this since Summon Swarm doesn't break it.
    With Ancestral Relict we qualify for MoMF. Finally at lvl 14 we can wild shape into Giants. Pick one and have fun.
    We can emulate all SLA by having em as invocation at will. We sole lack Gaseous Form (UMD wand).
    Cone of Cold gets emulated by Hellrime Blast + Eldritch Cone.

    As extra power/ingredient I have added Escalation Mage to quicken SLA a few times per day.
    Hellfire Warlock gives us the extra dmg but more importantly the right extra flair of arcane power.
    Mortal Bane also adds a lil to this.

    I'm tiered and intend to go to bed. Sorry, but that's it for the description. If questions should remain, just ask and I'll respond later.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Level adjustments are by design meant to discourage people from wanting to play monster characters. But there is an easy fix, if you allow the progression from Savage Species and make it a gestalt game, you can make a playable Ogre Mage while actually being an Ogre Mage. Without that, you have to use something either home brewed or only superficially resembles an Ogre Mage.

    For something that only Superficially resembles an Ogre Mage I would make a Half Giant or Half Ogre Fighter/Sorcerer into a prestige class. As long as I got 5th or 6th level spells and had around a 3/4 overall base attack I would call it good.
    Half Giant
    Fighter 1
    Fighter 2
    Sorcerer 1
    Fighter 3
    Sorcerer 2
    Sorcerer 3
    Sorcerer 4
    Spell Sword 1
    Spell Sword 2
    Spell Sword 3
    Eldritch knight 1
    Eldritch Knight 2
    Eldritch Knight 3
    Spell Sword 4
    Spell Sword 5
    Spell Sword 6
    Spell Sword 7
    Spell Sword 8
    Spell Sword 9
    Spell Sword 10

    Most powerful character ever? No, but it would be fun to play in most of the games I have played in. I pick spells that resemble the Ogre Mage Spell list, wear enough armor to fully use the 30% spell failure reduction and one hand a great sword. If I am right this would be a final caster level of 12 with an 18 base attack. The Fly spell removes the mobility issues of heavy armor, Cone of cold for mooks in groups, Improved invisibility for defense etc.

    With the Gestalt Build using the Savage Species progression I would take the remaining 8 levels on the side with the Ogre as a fighter. the other side of the Gestalt would be Sorcerer or Warlock. As I leveled up, every third level on the Ogre Mage side would be a Fighter Level with the last few levels after being out of Ogre Mage being more fighter.
    the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: [3.5] Playable Character Challenge: Ogre Mage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruftzwerg View Post
    I'll pick up on the warlock idea:

    Warlock 5 > Escalation Mage 6 > Mindbender 1 > Master of Many Forms 2 > Hellfire Warlock 3 > Warlock 6-8

    (we qualify for MoMF with our Wild Shape Amulet; see Ancestral Relict)

    Dragonwrought Kobold

    Skill: max UMD

    Feats:
    1: DWK
    3: Sudden Widen
    6: Mortal Bane
    9: Draconic Aura: Vigor
    12: Ancestral Relict (Wild Shape Amulet)
    15: Mindsight
    18: Supernatural Transformation: Eldritch Blast

    Invocations:

    Lest:
    Summon Swarm
    Darkness
    Devil's Sight

    Lesser:
    Invisibility / @lvl 18 Charm Person
    Fell Flight
    Hellrime Blast


    Greater:
    Eldritch Cone
    Painful Slumber of Ages
    Devil's Whispers


    Dark:
    Retributive Invisibility
    Path of Shadows

    We start as lil dirty DWK warlock with warlock's Summon Swarm (standard action!) which will easily carry us through the early levels. Invisibility combos well into this since Summon Swarm doesn't break it.
    With Ancestral Relict we qualify for MoMF. Finally at lvl 14 we can wild shape into Giants. Pick one and have fun.
    We can emulate all SLA by having em as invocation at will. We sole lack Gaseous Form (UMD wand).
    Cone of Cold gets emulated by Hellrime Blast + Eldritch Cone.

    As extra power/ingredient I have added Escalation Mage to quicken SLA a few times per day.
    Hellfire Warlock gives us the extra dmg but more importantly the right extra flair of arcane power.
    Mortal Bane also adds a lil to this.

    I'm tiered and intend to go to bed. Sorry, but that's it for the description. If questions should remain, just ask and I'll respond later.
    Warlock already gets fiendish resilience and has the mask of flesh invocation. With web article content there is the infernal adept feat at 18 that would let you take the humanoid shape invocation. Dark discorporation is pretty similar to gaseous form. Just wanted to mention a few alternatives in case some one didn't want charm at 18. Or simply have more warlock levels.

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