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    Default Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Hey, all! I'm not good at making builds, but I wanted to make a build that makes a character who travels the world with a gauntlet or two and and possibly some light armour and decks evil in the schnoz!

    Now, I've never been a good roll player, just a role player, so I need help with this, because my usual approach would be a fighter/barbarian mix with feats that improved the rage and unarmed strike, but clearly that's not the best way to do this.

    Any ideas?
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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Anything other than punching badhearst in the snout to assert righteousness that you're wanting?

    Because if it's just that then an Unarmed variant Swordsage is one relatively straightforward option.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2012-11-04 at 01:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    I actually rather like Bards for this, possibly a bardblade who gets his damage form IC and manuvers.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Half giant Psionic warrior with a dip in unarmed Swordsage

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Make a cleric and channel touch-ranged spells through your unarmed attacks. Punch people in the face with inflict spells (or cure spells, if you find yourself fighting a lot of undead) until you're able to cast 3rd-level spells. Then, once you have access to Bestow Curse, start breaking their noses so badly that it causes a permanent -6 penalty to their charisma, among other possible effects. The spell is open to creativity.
    Once you're able to cast 5th-level spells and gain access to Slay Living, your punches become save-or-die attacks. Don't worry about undead, you get Disrupting Weapon at the same level. You can cast it on the spiked gauntlet that you'll probably be using, making your attacks save-or-die for several rounds (while allowing you to cast more Cure spells on top of it at the same time, just in case).
    And then you get Harm. If your enemies are making all of their fortitude saves against Slay Living, try forcing them to make a will save. Harm still deals half damage if the target succeeds on his saving throw, which will be enough to make him save against massive damage or die.

    Important note: If any of your allies insist that you should heal or buff them like a "real" cleric, it is absolutely essential that you cast these spells on them via punching them in the face whenever possible.
    Last edited by Vaern; 2012-11-04 at 08:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    If you were playing Pathfinder, I'd say Brawler Fighter, and take all the no-brainer melee choices like Weapon Focus/Specialization chain, Cestus/Brass Knuckles/Gauntlet, and Brawling armor from UE. If you're using a gauntlet and Belier's Bite was out, you could even avoid taking IUS.

    If you're in 3.5, I suggest Barbarian with levels in Fist of the Forest for non-magical. Of course, non-magic sucks, so I'm leaning toward Cleric on this one. If you go Cleric, put castings of Sacred Item (Clr/Pal 4, Complete Divine) on everything you own, and just kill demons by hugging them. Be a Cleric of an Ideal (Punching Evil in the Shnoz), and when people ask you about it, put on your best Samuel Jackson voice and say some variation of "I am the High Priest Inquisitor, of the Holy Church of Whoop Yo Ass".
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    By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    If you want to punch evil in the Schnoz so hard you punch through the Schnoz and out the other side sending their schnoz flying backwards through the wall and embedded in a crater 20 foot deep in the hillside on the other side of town behind the wall then there's the chaotic good Eldritch Claw based warlock/shou desciple who crafts himself an item of greater mighty wallop and takes improved natural attack for both his claws and fist. 52d6 punches can certianly make something at least marginally sorry for its evil ways

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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Just remember you can totally refluff any magical or supernatural effect. Tell your DM you're doing this, of course, but since the mechanics are the same there shouldn't be any trouble. Any unarmed build will do, really. Just as long as it doesn't exclude Good alignment.

    There ought to be a feat somewhere that allows Smite Evil on non-paladins....

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Psychic warrior + monk + tashalatora would be fun but would be a bit more work. You'd get a lot more power and flexibility.

    Alternatively, there is frostrager from frostburn and fist of the forest from complete champion. You'll be much weaker but also ragier and have sort of the flavor you want I think.

    If you want to go a bit higher power without the rage and are set on the pummeling of evil route (being good), you can go cleric/monk/sacred fist. Sacred fist is a pretty good class, especially if text trumps table and you get full casting--talk to the DM. You gain cleric casting and have wisdom synergy. You can cast spells like righteous wrath too.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    I'd personally go Fighter + Sorcerer + Abjurant Champion + Eldrich Knight, and grab the Arcane Strike feat. Arcane Strike is a FREE action that allows you to sacrifice a spell and empowers all your attacks until end of turn with an untyped (meaning it stacks) bonus to attack and damage based on the level of the spell. If you want, you could save up all your spells for the day and just expend them at once to give ridiculous bonuses to attack and damage for one truly epic punch. Plus you can grab a few buff spells as a sorcerer to somewhat mitigate the Sorcerer lack of BAB progress.

    Edited
    Last edited by roguemetal; 2012-11-04 at 01:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    I realize this may be a build a little complicated for what you're going for, but here we go: Monk 2/Ardent 2/Cloistered Cleric 2/Psychic Theurge 10/X 4
    SAD wisdom dependant. Get your armor bonus from Psionics. Tashalatora to progress unarmed strike with your manifester level, get Practiced Manifester to make up for the lost Psionic levels and give you higher powers known (Ardent Powers work off of Manifester Level, not anything else). You get free Knowledge Devotion by giving up the free Knowledge Domain you got from CC. Maybe DMM persist some helpful spells like Divine Power for full BAB. Expansion from Ardent for more smack. Pick up the mighty arms graft and then a Battlefist for giant gauntlet evil punchyness.

    Sacred Fist is a pretty good class to shove in those last 4 levels. You would get 9th level Cleric spells as well as the Sacred Flames at the 4th level of the class. Very nice.

    Another option to go for is just putting Ur Priest in there somewhere... you just kinda can't go wrong with them.
    Last edited by Zombulian; 2012-11-04 at 02:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Hmm...Many of these are classes I have not yet heard of, so I'll go do some research.

    In the meantime, using classes I know of, would a warlock (or cleric)/barbarian/unarmed swordsage who channels his powers through gauntleted fists work? And what sort of role would it wind up filling, tank or MASSSSIVE DAAAMAAAAAGE?
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    (Recaiden) He lives!
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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    Hmm...Many of these are classes I have not yet heard of, so I'll go do some research.

    In the meantime, using classes I know of, would a warlock (or cleric)/barbarian/unarmed swordsage who channels his powers through gauntleted fists work? And what sort of role would it wind up filling, tank or MASSSSIVE DAAAMAAAAAGE?
    Probably consistent damage output. Little bit tanky just because of Barbarian.
    Clawlock with Beast Strike + DMM Persist Cleric Divine Power + Hellfire Warlock + Legacy Champion is the massive damage one. Each of your claw-fists pretty much blows enemies up with Hellfire. With a Cleric-zilla you wouldn't even need Barbarian in there. In fact you could just get the Rage spell for effect if you want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Clawlock with Beast Strike + DMM Persist Cleric Divine Power + Hellfire Warlock + Legacy Champion? The lingo only works if I know what you're talking about, and I've never heard any of that.
    GLORIOUS SOVIET SNAIL SUPERTECHNOLOGY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper9090 View Post
    My weirdest nightmare has just been replaced.
    (Recaiden) He lives!
    (Firedaemon33) Ia! Ia! TechnoScrabble F'Taghn!
    Declared terminal 24 December, 2013. Come and get me.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    Clawlock with Beast Strike + DMM Persist Cleric Divine Power + Hellfire Warlock + Legacy Champion? The lingo only works if I know what you're talking about, and I've never heard any of that.
    Alright. So someone said Claw Based Warlock. That's from the feat Eldritch Claws, which in addition to your Unarmed damage, does EB damage. Beast Strike is a little wonky, look into it but I don't like explaining things I don't fully understand. DMM = Divine Metamagic. Clerics can use Turn Attempts to power Metamagic abilities, such as Persistent Spell (which changes the duration of a spell to 24 hours.) Divine Power gives you BAB equal to your character level and +6 bonus to Strength. Hellfire Warlock is a PrC that basically makes it so for taking constitution damage (plenty of tricks to negate that) you can do crazy damage with an eldritch blast. Legacy Champion progresses class abilities from previous classes. Hellfire Warlock is a 3 lvl PrC. People use Legacy Champion to get tons of bonus Hellfire damage from the Hellfire Warlock progression of +2d6 hellfire every level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    Now, I've never been a good roll player, just a role player, so I need help with this, because my usual approach would be a fighter/barbarian mix with feats that improved the rage and unarmed strike, but clearly that's not the best way to do this.
    I don't know, that's actually not a bad start.

    A barbarian who multiclasses into Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) and possibly Frostrager (Frostburn) could actually be quite good at punching bad guys in the schnoz.

    Maybe something like...

    Dwarf, Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Warblade 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Frostrager 5

    FEATS:
    1- Power Attack, Toughness*
    2- Improved Grapple*
    3- Improved Unarmed Strike, Great Fortitude*
    6- Endurance
    9- Frozen Berserker
    12- Superior Unarmed Strike
    15- Snap Kick

    *Bonus feat from Bear Totem barbarian

    ...and fill in the last five levels however you'd like. I suggest more Warblade.

    It won't have anywhere near the damage output of an ubercharger, but it'll deal respectable damage with its unarmed strikes, enough to stay in a mid-tier group without feeling useless. Plus you'll have excellent AC, with Con to AC twice and +6 natural armor coming from Frostrager.
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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble View Post
    Clawlock with Beast Strike + DMM Persist Cleric Divine Power + Hellfire Warlock + Legacy Champion? The lingo only works if I know what you're talking about, and I've never heard any of that.
    clawlock is shorthand for a warlock who specializes in using the eldritch claw feat from dragon mag. using this lets you stack feats and classes and anything else really that improves either eldritch blasts or unarmed damage.

    DMM = divine mete-magic, and is one of the clerics most powerful options. what was suggested is focusing the cleric on making long lasting melee buffs, which the cleric has some really nice options for.

    hellfire warlock is a prestige class pretty much exclusively for warlocks that lets you take con damage for extra damage to your eldritch blasts. this plus legacy champion and 1 other prestige class are one of the better ways to up your eldritch blasts damage. be warned though, this requires a questionable interpretation of the rules as these PrCs do this with "blank check" type entries that let them emulate another class feature thus lengthening the hellfire warlock class. I'd say get the exact wording and talk to your DM if you want to try this.

    this is a respectable approach to a build that punches things to make them sorry. thing is, there are at least a dozen others most not taking even 1 level in the classes I just described. it may help if you can narrow down the search for us. a better idea of what you're looking for would let us give you more than speculation to work with.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by pyromanser244 View Post
    clawlock is shorthand for a warlock who specializes in using the eldritch claw feat from dragon mag. using this lets you stack feats and classes and anything else really that improves either eldritch blasts or unarmed damage.

    DMM = divine mete-magic, and is one of the clerics most powerful options. what was suggested is focusing the cleric on making long lasting melee buffs, which the cleric has some really nice options for.

    hellfire warlock is a prestige class pretty much exclusively for warlocks that lets you take con damage for extra damage to your eldritch blasts. this plus legacy champion and 1 other prestige class are one of the better ways to up your eldritch blasts damage. be warned though, this requires a questionable interpretation of the rules as these PrCs do this with "blank check" type entries that let them emulate another class feature thus lengthening the hellfire warlock class. I'd say get the exact wording and talk to your DM if you want to try this.

    this is a respectable approach to a build that punches things to make them sorry. thing is, there are at least a dozen others most not taking even 1 level in the classes I just described. it may help if you can narrow down the search for us. a better idea of what you're looking for would let us give you more than speculation to work with.
    Um. I ninja'd your post. Like, an hour ago. So not sure if that counts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    If you're willing to do the Hellfire Warlock thing, be clear with your DM about how it works with Legacy Champion and whatever Constitution-mitigator you're using.
    It's sensible for a DM to say Legacy Champion can't five you more levels than the class actually has, or to say that the Strongheart Vest thing doesn't work. So, ask him/her first, unless you want to get decked in the schnoz.
    Last edited by Kazyan; 2012-11-04 at 06:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    What's better to throw into the mix, then? Unarmed warblade or unarmed swordsage?

    And if I use cleric, how do I transfer spells through attacks (is it a feat, an item? Is it something I've been allowed to do this entire time?), and does eldritch claws work with gauntlets?
    Last edited by TechnoScrabble; 2012-11-04 at 07:12 PM.
    GLORIOUS SOVIET SNAIL SUPERTECHNOLOGY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viper9090 View Post
    My weirdest nightmare has just been replaced.
    (Recaiden) He lives!
    (Firedaemon33) Ia! Ia! TechnoScrabble F'Taghn!
    Declared terminal 24 December, 2013. Come and get me.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaern View Post
    Important note: If any of your allies insist that you should heal or buff them like a "real" cleric, it is absolutely essential that you cast these spells on them via punching them in the face whenever possible.
    I'm sure a slap around the face would more than suffice.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguemetal View Post
    I'd personally go Fighter + Sorcerer + Abjurant Champion + Eldrich Knight, and grab the Arcane Strike feat. Arcane Strike is a FREE action that allows you to sacrifice a spell and empowers all your attacks until end of turn with an untyped (meaning it stacks) bonus to attack and damage based on the level of the spell. If you want, you could save up all your spells for the day and just expend them at once to give ridiculous bonuses to attack and damage for one truly epic punch. Plus you can grab a few buff spells as a sorcerer to somewhat mitigate the Sorcerer lack of BAB progress.

    Edited
    You can start this with Sorcerer 1, the spells you want are Enlarge Person and Fist of Stone; no need to waste feats on Unarmed Combat. Like all good sorcerers your first level feat is Power Attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    Um. I ninja'd your post. Like, an hour ago. So not sure if that counts.
    We need a term for this, ... how about Monk ?
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    Um. I ninja'd your post. Like, an hour ago. So not sure if that counts.
    I know. my long posts take a while to type.

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    We need a term for this, ... how about Monk ?
    I LIKE it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Anyway, regarding Scion of Tem-Et-Nu, I'm just imagining a warrior trying to engage in single combat with a hippo, and another hippo waddles over:

    "No, this is honorable single combat! Go away! Shoo!"
    I love Jade_Tarem

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Monk/Cleric/Sacred fist wouldn't be bad at all for what you are trying to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    I thought we were arguing whether Magic Missile could crank out Riemann sums...

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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    Quote Originally Posted by Venusaur View Post
    Monk/Cleric/Sacred fist wouldn't be bad at all for what you are trying to do.
    Monk/Wizard/Enlightened Fist with Kung Fu Genius to reduce the MAD slightly is better; though KFG is Dragon Magazine so YMMV.

    ED: that's Monk 2, and no more.
    Last edited by nedz; 2012-11-04 at 10:44 PM.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


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    Default Re: Decking Evil in the Schnoz!

    If you want to specifically punch evil in the schoz, there's the Touch of Golden Ice feat in BoED.

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