Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 48
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    okay, so I stumbled upon this very not nice PrC Crinti Shadow Marauder that grants you dimension door AND a POUNCE after ANY completion of a transportation descriptor ANYTHING! only set back is that the built in dimension door requires your mount and limited range per day, but we all know at least a few tricks to get a transportation effect...

    so what im trying to figure out here is can you use a "pounce" type action from the back of a mount AND sneak attack the entire time as well.

    flavor wise i was thinking have a stealthy mount with the pounce ability and then stab/smash from the mounts back with the full attack granted you from the class...

    IDK, trying to find a way for this to be cool and viable. thoughts are rogue 5/ crinti shadow marauder 5/ shadow dancer 10 for a fun 20 level build that gets flanking buddies and more shadow themed jumping around with dimension door effect and other goodies...

    Little help please!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Uncle Pine's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    You can backstab someone with a ballista, why shouldn't you be able to do so while mounted (or with a mount as well)?

    Seriously talking, there isn't any clause in the SA's description about mounted and/or charging sneak attacks. This means that you can charge a foe while mounted and do sneak attacks as soon as you deny his Dex bonus to AC or flank him.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    I didn't think there was either but I'm not as rules savvy as some around here so wanted to see what others thought.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    okay, so I stumbled upon this very not nice PrC Crinti Shadow Marauder that grants you dimension door AND a POUNCE after ANY completion of a transportation descriptor ANYTHING! only set back is that the built in dimension door requires your mount and limited range per day, but we all know at least a few tricks to get a transportation effect...
    Using Shadow Pounce doesn't require the use of your mount. It works whenever you use a [teleportation] effect. While they do get Shadow Walk (Sp) as a SLA 1/day, this isn't the only way to trigger Shadow Pounce. Notably, the Shadow Jaunt/Shadow Step/Shadow Blink maneuvers from Tome of Battle can be used to create a "Shadow-Pouncer". Use all three, and you can get three full attacks into the same round. Add some Glyph Seals (1000 GP, Magic Item Compendium) keyed your pockets with the dimension hop spell, and you can keep doing it as a free action until you run out of Glyph Seals.

    You can do something similar without Shadow Pounce by teleporting 10' above your opponent's head to activate the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) and get a charge attack. Add Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian to turn that into a full attack. Other ways to teleport:

    dimension hop power (Complete Psionic, swift action)
    blink shirt soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum, standard or move action)
    abrupt jaunt ACF (PHBII)
    anklets of translocation (1400 GP, MIC, swift action)
    bolt shirt (5000 GP, MIC, move action)

    The only other PrC that offers Shadow Pounce is Telfammer Shadowlord 4 (from Unapproachable East), but the entry requirements are more obtuse. Crinti Shadow Marauder actually is easier to get into and requires less feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    so what im trying to figure out here is can you use a "pounce" type action from the back of a mount AND sneak attack the entire time as well.
    Hmmm... small-sized rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment lets you and your mount attack as if you were invisible.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Using Shadow Pounce doesn't require the use of your mount. It works whenever you use a [teleportation] effect. While they do get Shadow Walk (Sp) as a SLA 1/day, this isn't the only way to trigger Shadow Pounce. Notably, the Shadow Jaunt/Shadow Step/Shadow Blink maneuvers from Tome of Battle can be used to create a "Shadow-Pouncer". Use all three, and you can get three full attacks into the same round. Add some Glyph Seals (1000 GP, Magic Item Compendium) keyed your pockets with the dimension hop spell, and you can keep doing it as a free action until you run out of Glyph Seals.

    You can do something similar without Shadow Pounce by teleporting 10' above your opponent's head to activate the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) and get a charge attack. Add Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian to turn that into a full attack. Other ways to teleport:

    dimension hop power (Complete Psionic, swift action)
    blink shirt soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum, standard or move action)
    abrupt jaunt ACF (PHBII)
    anklets of translocation (1400 GP, MIC, swift action)
    bolt shirt (5000 GP, MIC, move action)

    The only other PrC that offers Shadow Pounce is Telfammer Shadowlord 4 (from Unapproachable East), but the entry requirements are more obtuse. Crinti Shadow Marauder actually is easier to get into and requires less feats.



    Hmmm... small-sized rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment lets you and your mount attack as if you were invisible.


    see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(
    Like the mount, Halfling isn't really necessary. Small size was just because the blink dog is medium. Presumably, if you could enlarge the blink dog, you could be medium-sized and do the synchronized ring of blinking thing.

    ToB isn't entirely necessary, either. You could do:

    Race: Drow or Half-Drow
    Totemist 5/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5

    That gets you a standard-action teleport and a move-action teleport. You can add a swift-action teleport via items (e.g., Anklet of Translocation).

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    ok, sorry if I'm being stupid, but how does totemist 5 work? not to mention it skips out on any form of sneak attack...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(
    Then get a real DM, not a power-tripping megalomaniac. That's not a game, that's catering to one jerk's control issues.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Guys... Guys... I like shadow pounce too.
    Avatar of Rudisplork, Avatar of PC-dom, and Slayer of the Internet.
    Extended sig with homebrew/handbookMitzi the Paladin by Ceika
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Then get a real DM, not a power-tripping megalomaniac. That's not a game, that's catering to one jerk's control issues.
    MY personal dislike for halflings/small creatures, not the DM's. I don't mind the lack of ToB/psionics because i don't care for them much.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    ok, sorry if I'm being stupid, but how does totemist 5 work? not to mention it skips out on any form of sneak attack...
    Sorry... actually, Totemist 2 is all you need. With the Blink Shirt soulmeld linked to your Totem chakra, you can dimension door at will either as a standard action or a move action. Not quite sure if you can do both in the same round... (there's a "no further actions" clause in there somewhere).

    Totemist 2/Rogue 3/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5/Umbral Disciple 10 would work better. This gives you 5d6 sneak attack, at-will dimension door, and always-on hide-in-plain-sight.

    Magic of Incarnum can be confusing to explain, though... sounds like it might be a tough sell to either you or your DM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Warlock 6 has at will teleportation and can grab hide in plain sight at lv 1 with drow of the underdark feats

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    MoI is a book that I bought years ago but never fully read...
    although i have no idea what umbral disciple is...

    warlock was looked at and ruled out within my debate team IRL as it would take to long to get to.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Keep in mind that both Totemist and Warlocks option use Dimension Door. Your turn will end after you use the abilities.
    Avatar of Rudisplork, Avatar of PC-dom, and Slayer of the Internet.
    Extended sig with homebrew/handbookMitzi the Paladin by Ceika
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    You can sneak attack...

    ...with a greatsword
    or
    ...while mounted
    or
    ...with a lance
    or
    ...with a siege weapon
    or
    ...in heavy armor
    or
    ...while charging
    or
    ...while pounce-charging

    or TONS of things. Sneak Attack is not a guy in light armor attacking with a dagger from hiding, you know?
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-04 at 11:51 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Keep in mind that both Totemist and Warlocks option use Dimension Door. Your turn will end after you use the abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningsouth
    Shadow Pounce (Ex): At 5th level, a Crinti shadow marauder
    learns how to attack swiftly from the shadows. Any time she
    uses an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor
    (for example, her shadow ride ability), she can execute a full
    attack upon completion of the teleportation. The marauder
    must have line of sight to her intended target from her original
    location. Further, the spot to which she teleports must be a
    place from which she can make a melee attack against the
    intended target with whatever weapon she had in hand at the
    beginning of her action.
    the dimension door is the trigger to a full attack

    blink shirt you say? *goes to read up with the gaming group*

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    the dimension door is the trigger to a full attack

    blink shirt you say? *goes to read up with the gaming group*
    Yes, but you can't use Dimension Door and then use another teleport afterwards, diminishing the usefulness of the ability. Move action helps though. You can use it after a chain of my MM abused Twin Repeat Dimension Hops.
    Avatar of Rudisplork, Avatar of PC-dom, and Slayer of the Internet.
    Extended sig with homebrew/handbookMitzi the Paladin by Ceika
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    but you don't need the move after if you dim door within reach of them for the full attack... you dim door to within reach, sneak attack /sudden strike the crap out of them using your full attack gained from the ability and do it all over again next round...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    but you don't need the move after if you dim door within reach of them for the full attack... you dim door to within reach, sneak attack /sudden strike the crap out of them using your full attack gained from the ability and do it all over again next round...
    You would still need a Standard action teleport that is not Dimension Door. Just a heads up.
    Avatar of Rudisplork, Avatar of PC-dom, and Slayer of the Internet.
    Extended sig with homebrew/handbookMitzi the Paladin by Ceika
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    why would you in the ability lets you take a full attack after any teleportation effect? as per the ability if I'm getting this right you can teleport in any way to within reach of something/one and full attack them.
    Shadow Pounce (Ex): ... Any time she
    uses an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor
    (for example, her shadow ride ability), she can execute a full
    attack upon completion of the teleportation. The marauder
    must have line of sight to her intended target from her original
    location. Further, the spot to which she teleports must be a
    place from which she can make a melee attack against the
    intended target with whatever weapon she had in hand at the
    beginning of her action.
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningsouth
    Shadow Ride (Su):A Crinti shadow ma-rauder can travel on her mount between shadows
    as if by means of a dimension door spell. Such
    supernatural transport must begin and end in an
    area with at least some shadow. The marauder can
    ride up to a total of 50 feet per Crinti shadow marauder
    level per day in this way. The amount can be split up
    among many rides, but rides of a distance shorter than
    25 feet count as 25 feet
    is the shadow ride ability that is dim door under diff name

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Snowbluff is talking about multiple teleports and therefore multiple full-attacks.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Why would I do that? I'm not trying to break the ability here, just trying to make something fun and effective.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dromund Kaas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    Why would I do that? I'm not trying to break the ability here, just trying to make something fun and effective.
    Then don't worry about the multiple teleports bit.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Fitz10019's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Berwangen, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking
    What would keep the mount's and rider's blinking in sync? Wouldn't there be a chance of them being out of sync and the rider falling through? heh.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gorfnab's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Minot, ND
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz10019 View Post
    What would keep the mount's and rider's blinking in sync? Wouldn't there be a chance of them being out of sync and the rider falling through? heh.
    Arms & Equipment Guide - page 81 - 82, paragraph Blink Dog, Riding
    If a blink dog's rider wears a ring of blinking, the dog and ring attune to each other through a sympathetic magical effect so that dog and rider blink in unison.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by gorfnab View Post
    Arms & Equipment Guide - page 81 - 82, paragraph Blink Dog, Riding
    now that's a funny trick to try...

    I think there is an issue here :(
    seems that most of my gaming group thinks that the shadow pounce ability is "broken" and have tried to convince the DM to ban it :(

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In the ruins of San de So
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ojayaba View Post
    now that's a funny trick to try...

    I think there is an issue here :(
    seems that most of my gaming group thinks that the shadow pounce ability is "broken" and have tried to convince the DM to ban it :(
    You should then bring a Conjurer/Incantatrix to show them what is really broken.
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Iron Chef Trophy:
    Spoiler
    Show



  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Succubus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    You can sneak attack...

    ...with a greatsword
    or
    ...while mounted
    or
    ...with a lance
    or
    ...with a siege weapon
    or
    ...in heavy armor
    or
    ...while charging
    or
    ...while pounce-charging

    or TONS of things. Sneak Attack is not a guy in light armor attacking with a dagger from hiding, you know?
    If you manage to get sneak attacked by someone wearing full plating, riding a warhorse and carrying 5ft lance, you really, really need to work on your wisdom score.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    You should then bring a Conjurer/Incantatrix to show them what is really broken.
    im the only one in my group that reads the forums, so i know what "broken" and "powerful" are, but i still refuse to use those tricks to any level of that cheesyness.
    I just like to have fun playing silly/fun things that have a few tricks like the odd full attack after a teleport. yes, that is a powerful ability but at the same time its no less powerful then a power attacker smashing face for 70+ a hit on a full attack or single attack.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????

    he could just flank...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •