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    Default Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ranger
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th

    1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|1st Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy, Animal Companion|—|—|—|—

    2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Combat Style, Trapfinding, Trapper|—|—|—|—

    3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Endurance, Quarry, Favored Terrain +1|—|—|—|—

    4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Fast Movement, Natural Poisoner|1|—|—|—

    5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Bonus Feat, Notice the Unnoticed|1|—|—|—

    6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Improved Combat Style, Nature's Armaments|1|—|—|—

    7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Woodland Stride, Scent, Favored Terrain +2|1|—|—|—

    8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Swift Tracker, |2|1|—|—

    9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Resist Nature's Lure|2|1|—|—

    10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|2nd Favored Enemy, Bonus Feat |2|1|—|—

    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Supreme Combat Style, Favored Terrain +3 |2|1|1|—

    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Sense Companion|3|2|1|—

    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Camouflage|3|2|1|—

    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Evasion|3|2|1|1

    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|3rd Favored Enemy, Bonus Feat, Favored Terrain +4|3|2|2|1

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Combat Style Mastery|4|3|2|1

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Hide in Plain Sight|4|3|2|1

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Flawless Movement|4|3|2|2

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Favored Terrain +5|4|3|3|2

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Nature's Defender, Bonus feat|5|4|3|3

    [/table]
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d8

    Class Skills:
    Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge(dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge(geography) (Int), Knowledge(nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str),and Use Rope (Dex)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

    Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Intimidate, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on Attack, rolls against such creatures. In addition A Ranger also gains +1 Insight Bonuses to AC as well as saves. AT 5th Level and every 5th level thereafter these bonuses increase, +2 to skills and attack rolls and +1 to AC and saves.

    At 10th and again at 15th level the Ranger may select an additional favored enemy.

    If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associtated subtype. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

    Ranger Favored Enemy Benefits
    3rd A successful attack upon a Ranger's Favored Enemy causes it to be shaken for 1 round. Unlike other forms of fear, this attack does not stck with itself or others. In addtion the ranger is capable of critical attacks even if his Favored Enemy is normally immune.
    7th Every attack upon a Ranger's Favored Enemy Threatens a Critical
    10th A successful attack upon a Ranger's Favored Enemy causes them to not be able to perform a standard action and gives adjacent allies a free attack of opportunity against the foe.
    13th As a standard action a Ranger makes one attack and deals an extra 1d4+1 damage per every 2 Ranger levels to his target Favored Enemy, and the Target must make a Fort save CD of 10+1/2 Ranger Level+Ranger's Wis modifier or be staggard for 1 round.

    Animal Companion (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures may be added to the ranger’s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind.

    This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, A ranger may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can. Like a druid, a ranger cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st.

    Track: A Ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.

    Wild Empathy (Ex): A Ranger can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

    To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

    The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

    Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. This choice affects the character’s class features but does not restrict his selection of feats or special abilities in any way.

    If the ranger selects archery, he is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. Also, the first successful attack in an encounter deal extra damage equal to his Ranger levels

    If the ranger selects two-weapon combat, he is treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. Also, the first succesful attack in an encounter gives the Ranger bonus temporary HP equal to his ranger level. These HP last untill the end of the encounter or enough damage is dealt.

    The benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Trapfinding {Ex}: AS per Rogue, but only nonmagical traps and no ability to bypass a trap.

    Trapper {Ex or Su}: At 2nd level, a Ranger learns how to create a snare trap. At 6th level and every 4th level thereafter, he learns another trap. The saves for all traps are 10+1/2 Ranger level+Wis Mod.

    Alarm {Ex} When the trap is triggered, it also creates a momentary loud noise equivalent to the audible alarm version of alarm.

    Befuddling Trap {Ex} the trap triggers releasing a cloud of dust, debri pungent smells and other miscelany to cause the creature who triggerd the trap to be confused for 1d3 rounds. A Successful Will save negates the effect. The Ranger must know 1 other trap before he selects this one.

    Burning Trap {Ex} If the triggering creature fails its Reflex save, it catches on fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage at the start of its turn for 1d4 rounds. The burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save.

    Exploding Trap {Ex} The trap explodes in fire, filling all squares adjacent to the trap dealing 1d6 fire damage and 2d6 piercing damage and are knocked prone. A Reflex save halves the damage and prevents them from being knocked prone.

    Fire Trap {Ex} The trap explodes in flames, dealing a number of points of fire damage equal to 1d6 + 1/2 the ranger’s level to the triggering creature.

    Fireburst Trap {Su} The trap erupts in flames, all within a 10 foot radius suffer 2d6 fire damage plus an addition 1 per Ranger level. A reflex saves halves the damage.

    Flashbang {Ex} The trap explodes in a flash of bright light and loud noises. Any creature inthe trapped or any adjacent squares is blinded and deafened for 2d4+1 rounds. A successful fortitude save lessens the effects to being dazzled for 1d3 rounds.

    Freezing Trap {Ex} The trap creates a burst of ice that damages and encases the triggering creature. The creature takes 1d4 points of cold damage + 1/4 the ranger’s level and is entangled and stuck to the ground. A successful Reflex save halves the damage and means the creature is not stuck to the floor by the ice. The ice is 1 inch thick per 3 Hit Dice of the ranger (minimum 1), has hardness 0 and 2 hit points per inch of thickness, and melts in 1d2 rounds.

    Glitterburst {Ex} The trap explodes in a 10 foot radius covering everything in tiny shards of silver, powered diamonds and other such. Treat as a Glitteredust spell, except it only last 1d4+1 rounds, A successful Will save negates the blindness and the outline onl last 1 round.

    Immolation Trap {Su} The trap bursts into supernatural flames, setting the creature that triggers it on fire, dealing 3d6 +1/ranger level fire damage initially and 1d6, plus 1 per ranger level fire damage per round a reflex save must be made each round. Requires one other traps known.

    Nauseous Trap {Ex} The trap explodes in putrid gas, filling all squares adjacent to the trap. Treat the cloud as it were the spell Stinking cloud, except the cloud only last 1d4+1 rounds on its own.

    Poison Trap {Ex} The trap poisons the creature that triggers it. dealing 1d2 Con damage per round for 6 rounds. A successful fortitude spell precents all damage.

    Poison Dart Trap{Ex} If an enemy sets off a poison dart trap, they suffer 1d6 damage and are afflicted with poison ( of whatever type of poison the Ranger has used). A Reflex save negates the damage and the poison. If the Reflex save is failed, the target may still attempt a Fortitude save against the poison.

    Sleet Trap {Ex} The detonating trap creates a 10-foot-radius burst of sleet with the effects of a sleet storm. The driving sleet lasts for 1 round, but the icy ground persists for 1 round per two ranger levels.

    Shocking Trap {Su} The detonating of this traps shocks the target for 1d6 electrical damage plus 1 additional damage per Ranger level.

    Sleep Trap {Ex} The triggering of this trap causes the creature to make a fortitude save or fall asleep, as if affected by the sleep spell.

    Snare Trap {Ex} The trap constricts around a limb or other part of the triggering creature’s body (Reflex avoids). The creature cannot move from the location of the trap, unless the ranger included a “leash” when setting the trap, in which case the creature is limited to the length of the leash. The trapped creature can escape with an Escape Artist check (DC equal to the trap’s DC) as a full-round action. The trap or its leash has a number of hit points equal to 1/2 the ranger’s level, or can be burst as a full-round action with a DC 25 Strength check. At the ranger’s discretion, if there is a tall object or structure nearby, she can have the trap lift the creature.

    Swarm Trap {Ex} The trap releases a bat swarm, rat swarm, snake swarm, or spider swarm that attacks all creatures in the area. The swarm remains in the general area for no longer than 1 round per ranger level, after which it disperses. The ranger must provide the creatures of the swarm, these creatures may die of starvation before the trap is triggered, lasting up to 1 day for every 5 Ranger levels before they perish.

    Web Trap {Ex} The trap explodes filling all squares adjacent to it in sticky strands. treat as if under the effects of the Web spell.

    Endurance: A ranger gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

    Favored Terrain {Ex}: At 3rd level, a ranger may select a type of terrain from Table: Ranger Favored Terrains. The ranger gains a bonus on initiative checks and Hide, Listen, Knowledge (geography),Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Survival skill checks when he is in this terrain, Equal to the number shown on the above Table. At 7th level and every 4th level afterwards the Ranger may select a additon favored terrain.


    If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

    Quarry {Ex}: At 3rd level a Ranger can as a move action designated on creature to be his quarry. His attacks deal an addition 1d6 damage againts his Quarry target. This extra damage is of the same type the weapon deals and is not multiplied on a critical strike. At 9th level and again at 15th level this extra damage is increased by 1d6, so at 9th it becomes 2d6 and at 15th 3d6. If the quarry target also happens to be a favored enemy, the quarry damage is doulbed.

    Fast Movement {Ex}: At 4th level the Ranger's base land speed increases by 10 feet, At 13th level his base land speed increases again by 10 feet, as well as his animal companion finding its base speed increased by 10 feet.

    Natural Poisoner {Ex}: At 4th level the ranger is capable to harvest poisons from any creature that has an extraordinary poison attack. The ranger is also able to apply all poisons without fear of poisoning themselves but only has specialty with production and storage of natural poisons

    Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list. A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).

    To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger’s Wisdom modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Ranger. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. The ranger does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

    A ranger prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though he cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.

    Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his ranger level -3.

    Notice the Unnoticed {Ex}: Once a day per Wisdom Modifier, a Ranger may reroll a Spot or Listen check after the outcome of the original roll is determined. Every five levels, he can use this ability once more a day. Each use of the ability applies separately to Spot and Listen (ie, they each have 'x' rerolls per day).



    Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addtion all Archery related attacks deal additional damage equal to the Ranger's Dexterity modifier. The ranger is considering threatening squares as if he were in melee in regards in determining if allies can use him to get flanking benefits, as long as the ranger is within 30 feet of his target and the ally he is flanking with.


    If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. The ranger can now make an attack with both equipped weapons as a standard action. In addtion all attacks while dual wielding deal additional damage equal to the Ranger's Dexterity modifier.

    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Nature's Armamanets {Su}: At 6th level weapon the Ranger wield gain either the Flaming, Frost, or Shock weapon property. At 12th level this ability increases to become the Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, or Shocking Burst weapon property.

    Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him. At 14th Level this ability allows the Ranger to be untrackable in undergrowth, except by another Ranger of higher level or by a being that has the Track feat and more Hit Die than the Ranger.

    Scent {Ex}: Starting at 7th Level a Ranger gains the Scent Extraordinary ability.

    Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

    Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 9th level, a ranger gains an insight bonus on saving throws against the extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities of animals, magical beasts, fey, plants and vermin equal to his Wisdom modifier.

    Supreme Combat Style (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Improved Precise Shot and Woodland Archer feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger
    Spoiler
    Show
    Gets a cool ability


    If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Hit feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger, upon a succesful attack with both his main and off-hand weapon, the ranger gains a bonus attack with his main hand weapon at a -5 penalty, this attack deals an addition 2d4 + 1 damage per ranger level. This extra attack does not occur on Attacks of Opportunity.


    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Sense Companion {Sp}: A ranger upon reacher 12th level may scry upon his animal companion a number of times per day equal to 1+ wisdom modifier. The caster level for this ability is equal to half Ranger levels.

    Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

    Evasion (Ex): At 14th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 16th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style (archery or two-weapon combat) improves again. If he selected archery at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Penetrating Shot and Greater Manyshot feats, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for those feats. In addition the Ranger can, upon a succesful spot check ( as a swift action) of DC 15+ CR of opponent, next successful attack against the opponent in that round deals an extra 3d6 /+1 level additional damage and checks the creature struck (flyers are blown back 10 feet). the opponent must succeed on a fortifude save at DC 10+1/2 damage done to negate the checked effect

    If the ranger selected two-weapon combat at 2nd level, he is treated as having the Greater Two-Weapon Defense feat, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. In addition the Ranger deals an extra 2d6 +1 per 2 Ranger levels damage and as a free action can make an intimidate check with a bonus equal to his Ranger Level to cause all foes within 20 feet to be shaken, only this fear is so deep that the penalty is -4 instead of the normal -2. This counts as a terror effect.

    As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

    Flawless Movement {Ex}: At 18th Level a ranger can move and attack normally while under the influence of magic that impedes his movement, such as web, slow, and paralysis. this ability also allows a Ranger to move and attack normally underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces. This ability does not allow thrown weapons to be used normally.

    Nature's Defender {Ex}: A Ranger can never be surprised and selects one 5th level druid spell (that may never change once chosen) to cast once a day. In addition all magical Beasts, Animals, Vermin, plants, and Fey have a minimum reaction of Indifferent.


    Spoiler
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    This is still a work in progress Still trying to think up a combat style for 11th level archery and think of a couple more traps.
    Last edited by ngilop; 2012-11-18 at 10:59 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    3 things:

    1: You basically made Favored Enemy entirely useless as opposed to nearly useless. at least with normal you get +10 attack/damage against an enemy

    2: Evasion is such a late player it might as well not even be there

    3: Google


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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ok, anybody have any ideas for what, if anything, i could pop into levels 4, 12 and 18 for the ranger?

    so one does not get all wonky with weird abilities here is what I think of when i think of a Ranger

    A defender of the wild-places in teh world, skilled in weapons and knowledgable about woodlands and tracking
    A gruff woodsman/frontiersman who has a trusty old pal that happens to be of the four legged variety
    having soem sort of almost supernatural abiltity to understand animals
    a wilderness guide and scout.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    I wouldn't really consider this a retool. You gave him a few extra boosts, which will definitely improve his power, but he's still essentially a combatant with favored enemy and archery or TWF, and a few skills on the side.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    Ok, anybody have any ideas for what, if anything, i could pop into levels 4, 12 and 18 for the ranger?

    so one does not get all wonky with weird abilities here is what I think of when i think of a Ranger

    A defender of the wild-places in teh world, skilled in weapons and knowledgable about woodlands and tracking
    A gruff woodsman/frontiersman who has a trusty old pal that happens to be of the four legged variety
    having soem sort of almost supernatural abiltity to understand animals
    a wilderness guide and scout.
    Ive been working out, slowly, why i knew the ranger class itself isnt very good conceptually, and ive basically gotten it down to this:

    The ranger is, in fact, two storyline concepts, neither of which alone is bad, but as a conceptual pairing that doesnt, in and of itself, work.

    On one hand, we have the Wilderness huntsman, a person who is, at the very least, in tune with nature. This person lives off the land and may have some sort of predatory or mighty animal as a companion. They guide the heros through a rough patch in the journey which they are not able to do on their own, because they have not reached the point of return yet.

    On the other hand, we have the Hero of a thousand faces. Ranger is the class who most fills this space in DnD, moreso then Fighter, Rogue, and Squashbuckler do, even though they are supposed to be the classes who are on the path of the Hero's journey. In this way, Ranger actually is the class that should be the best face of the entire game. the Monomyth is not in and of itself followed to the letter, as the steps of the Monomyth do not necessarily need to be taken in order:

    You set out on the journey at lvl 1. In the normal Progression of ranger, you reach the step of Supernatural Aid when you recieve the ability to use spells, as well as the pet. "The belly of the Whale" itself is timed perfectly with the transition of lvl 5-6, our ranger beings to surpass anything that is humanly possible, fighting faster, more precisely, and in ways that no man has ever done before. Now, if we are holding Ranger to lock step with the Monomyth, then you actually get Evasion's granting actually correct (even if functionally Evasion is very late), where as the Core Ranger's 9th level evasion comes too soon for "Attonement with the Father", where in the Ranger comes to terms with who they are, and exceeds any limits they previously had.


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ok, the critques are only half way there, don't normally after putting an ida down in a critique to keep it form just being an insult, one should add helpful advice?

    O accordingt o yitzie this isn;t even a re-tool just the ranger with a couple of boosts (which I thought what a re-tooling was you take a class and add a couple of things you thought it was missing)

    and Toapat seems to be a sticler for how fail of a job i did with evasion. plus the whole essay she wrote about monomyths is beyond confusing to me talking about whale stomachs and such..

    could somebody please lend me a hand and actually present unto the thread some helpful advice or ideas on what I cna do to this ranger, the very least be awesome enough to use internet search powers to find my old ranger combat style thread :( topat 3: google was a moot point as I guess she didn;t read my original spoiled text at the bottom of the original post.

    just hoping that somebody comes into this thread and helps me out with what I am missing from what i envison a ranger is and should be, its pretty good straight out of the PHB really it just needed some things to get a kick up to help out Favored enemy needed a boost, as did the combat styles.

    Im thinking fo maybe making somthnig liek getting a bonus to saves vs all ex, su and sp abilties from fey, animals, magicla beasts, plants and vermin at 12 level, would that be all good or should it come earlier?

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    *snip*
    basically, the first thing you have to understand is that the Ranger is 2 separate concepts that dont actually work together. the Huntsman, who gets the pet and tracking, and the Hero, who gets the weapon skills, spellcasting, and perfection of self. The Monomyth is just another name for the hero. One of the conflicts is that the Huntsman is actually a supporting character in the Monomyth. One of the huge problems of 3rd overal was a rather dartboard method of using character concepts. The Divine Warrior has at least 5 classes to it, the swashbuckler gets 3. basically, you should always figure out what you want a class to say, and cut out anything unnecessary to the class itself.

    Evasion is prefered to be early when it can make a difference between a death and surviving something, as opposed to later when death is cheap. I typically, when i believe an evasion type ability belongs, but not as a primary concept feature, will put it between levels 4 and 6. the problem with evasion on a ranger is that they get it at lvl 9. by that point it isnt a class feature, it is becoming a common magic item, that is when you want Improved evasion to begin to show up.

    Besides that, you actually nerfed Favored Enemy to be near unusable. with the base ranger, you have 5 favored enemies, of which you can have ALL outsiders simultaineously, and you have bonuses of +10/+8/+6/+4/+2 against the enemies, from the earliest to the latest. With your change, you only get +2, against 3 enemy types. What you actually want Favored Enemy to do is grant +2 Attack, +1 die roll against favored enemies, increasing for each instance of favored enemy you have, so at lvl 20 you have 5 enemies you get +10/+5 dice against.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-11-04 at 11:39 PM.


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    please re-read favored enemy again.

    it is drastically improved
    not only did I add more skills the ranger gaisn bonuses to but the ranger now gets a bonus to Saves and AC verssu the favored enemy, to top that off with some nice icing on the cake, teh Ranger now gets even more benefits from causing the favored enemy to be shaken, to auto threatening a crit to dealing a crap ton of damage.

    the only 'nerfing' i did to to favored enemy is reduce it form having 5 favored enemies to 3.

    im almost positive that you just skipped over the last sentance in the first paragraph for favored enemies

    so you get 3 favored enemies that net you +10 to Bluff, Intimidate, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks as well as +5 to AC and Saves against them.

    now how is that worse than getting your +10/+8/+6/+4/+2 to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks and dmg rolls?

    seriosuly please expalin how my itineration of favored enemy is so much worse than the PHB version, or is it just bexcuase you say that I only gave out 3 Favored enemies and you just insticively said ' thats weak sauce'?

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    *snip*
    when i said you didnt fix it at all, it didnt scale at all

    Although you fixed the problem of only one Favored Enemy being remotely effective at a time, your additions to the static bonuses didnt really change anything. A ranger is a ranger, barely worth the resources that spellcasting consumes, and AC has, for the longest time, been known to be irrelevant.

    The Dynamic bonuses? the third level one is absolutely insane. the rest dont even matter compared, and you effectively make me not want to ever go more then 3 levels into ranger, simply because I dont need anything past third level.


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    O accordingt o yitzie this isn;t even a re-tool just the ranger with a couple of boosts (which I thought what a re-tooling was you take a class and add a couple of things you thought it was missing)
    And I thought a re-tool meant that you actually change the focus of the class. Clearly one of us misunderstands what a retool means in the context of homebrew; that misunderstanding may very well be mine.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    SO, what I am getting from Toapat is that the ranger is a worhtless class and that it should just be erased from D&D. becuase if no spell caster is ever going to waste a spell to target a ranger due to how worhtless a ranger is.

    Though I will say one thing in regards to your incessant need to say how bad I am doing things with out once even trying to say how or what one could do to make it better. your whole ranger/monomyth' not being able to coexist is beyond wrong.

    I can see how you think that, you must have had a very cushie life growing up, some of us were not so fortunate. Now let me let in in on the real and I will give you a few reason why your whole ranger is useless and not allowed to be a hero is so very wrong.
    Having to struggle to survive out in the wilds hunting your food, shltering yourself form all the things nature can send your way, that is not easy, not by a long shot. if you do not know how to handle yourself and some weapons your dead. its that simple.

    No one to your whole monomyth stuff. D&D is not about tranpeezing off solo and taken down the kraken or performing a dozen tasks or taking out an almost unkillable monster and his mother.

    its about getting some friends together and doing it as a group. so trying to apply solo hero paths of progression to a group based game and ruleset is just wrong.

    amnd some how you go form saying AC is irrelavent to saying that gettign -2 to attacks is
    absolutely insane

    some of us (players that is) are far from super optimizers, liek ive noticed the majority of the frequenters of this forum are. while we do understand that AC and attack bonus do not scale equally we also do not go out of our way to make sure that AC is completely null and void.

    I cannot count the number of times ive had a player live becuase they bad guy missed by 1 AC. so while I am aware that most people on this forum think that AC is bad, some people actually still enjoy having an AC on thier charatcer. Maybe one day I'll join the bandwagon and just never care about AC, but that dya seems far off in the veyr distant and senile future.

    and for yitzie, this is the definition of re-tool that I was going for, I am well aware that just becuase a word has a definition that is the actual one that does not mean that when teh word is sued it is supposed to have its official meaning (see rebuke in the PHB)
    Re-tool. To revise and reorganize, especially for the purpose of updating or improving
    . SO it could very well be me who is in the wrong here, as I guess the forusm do not have a explanation of terms used ( took me 5 years to find out what the heck peach meant, i just thought it was some kind of inside internet gamer fruit joke or something)

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Shaken isn't a powerful condition for the -2 penalty to attack rolls, or even for the -2 to saves and skill checks. It's powerful because it stacks (by applying it twice) into the utterly debilitating Frightened condition, which forces you to run away, thus provoking an AoO and losing your actions for the round (and possibly the next round as you move back). Stack it three times and you get Panicked, which is the same thing except that you also drop everything held (another move action and AoO if your enemies haven't just taken your weapon) and start Cowering if cornered.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Well, that was kind of the point, only I would think by attack 3 whatever the ranger was attacking would be dead.. i might be wrong there.

    would it be better if i put in the disclaimer that the shaken ability does not stack with itself, but can and does stack with other sources of scared-ness?
    and also I JUST FOUND my old ranger combat style stuff, i just randomyl tped in my user name and pow there it was 8 links down!

    looks liek i just gained a level in internet guy man person dude.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
    Shaken isn't a powerful condition for the -2 penalty to attack rolls, or even for the -2 to saves and skill checks. It's powerful because it stacks (by applying it twice) into the utterly debilitating Frightened condition, which forces you to run away, thus provoking an AoO and losing your actions for the round (and possibly the next round as you move back). Stack it three times and you get Panicked, which is the same thing except that you also drop everything held (another move action and AoO if your enemies haven't just taken your weapon) and start Cowering if cornered.
    There's another two differences between Frightened and Panicked too: A frightened creature can choose its flight path, a panicked creature picks randomly. And once a Frightened creature has escaped the source of its fright, it can fight other creatures, whereas a Panicked creature has to run away from all enemies.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    SO I am thinking of adding traps and trap abilties to the Rangers, well i guess theyw ould be more like snares and such not actual step on a crack and POW here comes a doom ball at your face traps.

    but the sorts you would find a huntsman useing.

    what do you guys think of it?

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    I think it's a great idea. Nothing constructed per se, but snares, pitfalls, and so on would help a lot to give the ranger a character of its own. I'd suggest you make it based on the Survival skill.

    Other ideas to boost the ranger:
    -Fast movement as a barbarian, maybe even improving further as he levels. It fits, and it's a nice boost.
    -Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight are pretty nice, maybe you should move them up a bit.
    -Perhaps some proficiency with making and using natural poisons would help.
    -If you want to go the supernatural route, Nondetection would be amazingly useful. For that matter, even though Hide from Animals is a ranger class spell, giving it to him as a permanent ability at some point would also be nice.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2012-11-05 at 10:35 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ok added the traps, move some abilities around.

    and improved upon the Combat styles greatly, adding in additional feats at 11th and 16th levels for both styles.

    I am still at a loss as to what i can do in terms of an ability for level supreme combats tyle for archers and Combat mastery for Dual wielders.

    though I was thinking something along the lines of Girallon windmill flesh rip for dual wielding?

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ok added a couple new abilities, now I still need help finishing the Combat style, so if anybody or theri cousin can lend me a couple of ideas that would be wonderful.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    SO, I am thinking of adding a sheild other like abiltity that the ranger can use on his animal compnanion, does that sound allright?

    also, do you think the ranger needs a larger and more varied selection of traps?

    and still I really need help with those last 2 combat styles.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Am I hallucinating or was this thread locked earlier today?

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    K added in like 5 new traps and thought of a cool ability for the 1th levle dual weild.. still need help on what my 11th level archery style should be.

    at this point im willing to pay for an actual helpful answer and not off topic nonsense or rants abotu things that make no sense.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Still cannot think of an abilityt o give to ranger who take archery at 11th level. and it seems that nobody else here on GITP can either..

    story of my life, right?


    just hoping against all odds that somebody actually can think of a level appropiate ability.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    thats because people typically forget that Improved Precise shot causes ranged weapons to use Ranged Touch attacks.


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    you must use a different precise shot that what I do.
    the one I use only ignore AC bonuses due to cover, tha one in players handbook that is.


    and again.. im not looking for a feat im looking for an actual ability that is as powerful as the 11th level two-weapon fighting ability.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    you must use a different precise shot that what I do.
    the one I use only ignore AC bonuses due to cover, tha one in players handbook that is.


    and again.. im not looking for a feat im looking for an actual ability that is as powerful as the 11th level two-weapon fighting ability.
    you are not reading IPS correctly then. RAI it doesnt make armor irrelevant. RAW it makes AC granted by anything less then Total Cover useless. that means that any bonus armor is useless, reducing all enemies to 10-AC.

    The reason why ranged combat is terrible is because an archer is only getting upto 4(W) damage, where as casters are getting the effects of 80d6 damage with a single spell.


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Ok, now can you finally actually try to do something helpful and add a suggestion into this, instead of alwasy coming into this thread to just insult?

    Ive never done that to your homebrew,, I do not understand for the life of me why you feel such a need to do it to me?

    Im sorry if I have ever done anything to offend you.

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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    you are not reading IPS correctly then. RAI it doesnt make armor irrelevant. RAW it makes AC granted by anything less then Total Cover useless. that means that any bonus armor is useless, reducing all enemies to 10-AC.
    This is technically true, but not particularly helpful for homebrewing purposes, since no one ever uses it this way in normal games.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    This is technically true, but not particularly helpful for homebrewing purposes, since no one ever uses it this way in normal games.
    actually, the more i think it over, im coming to the opinion that IPS wasnt an oversight when they wrote it to completely ruin armor vs archers.

    If the math was balanced correctly so that you could hit with your -10 and -15 itteratives, then a sneak attack fighter would be able to get +70d6 sneak attack, while a rogue would get +60d6 for the same action. A sneak attack fighter would be doing with a bow would be doing +40d6 with Manyshot, or +50d6 with rapidshot.

    adjusted for math, a TWF would be getting 2-6 attacks, depending on bab, per round. where as without using bad wording on IPS, an archer will only be getting 2-4 attacks per round


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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks. End Quote. . . . . .

    I have never Heard of Improved Precise shot almost negating armor. And if you read the Pfsrd which is the quote I posted it says nothing about that, just concealment and miss chance like what you would get from Displacement.
    If i am wrong would someone please correct me and a page to prove otherwise?? Second note how is someone dropping 40-80 D6's??? I have only heard that come that close with a seriously OP game. Now as to the original question you could have something along the lines of Learn From Nature... where the Ranger would fight like a Certain animal of choice example :Bear style , Tiger , Crane, Wolf. And so on just a suggestion.
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    Default Re: Ranger (re-tool) {please Critique}

    Toapat is using one of those ultra strict RAW interpreatations of the rules with IPS.

    the same kind of RAW strictness that coems with weilding a tower shield granting concealtment to the wielding and everything he is holding, which would iclude the tower shiled as well.

    On a side note, I am beyond aggravated that Toapat has done nothing at all in this whole thread except go off topic on issues that have nothing at all to do with critiquing the class and he incesant need to be passive aggressing with her insults

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    I even asked her nicely to cease and she refused continuing on with her posts that have zero to di with critiqing my homebrewed ranger changes

    not only that but she has gotten other to come into this thread as well to again go off the topic of critiquing this class re-tool

    It is a sad day indeed for me, I was hpign that I would post a class and get help and ideas from the much more able GiTP homebrewrs other than Yitzi, its been Toapat and her against me actions and the restt following her.

    I find myself asking " what have I ever done to any of you?"

    I am going to request that this entire thread be deleted. I asked for simple critiquing and help, mostly what I have gotten is insults and degredation and harrasment form Toapat.

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