Flank & Battlefield Control

[Xander96]

This topic is spawned off another thread that was going on. Just a thought that came to mind that I wanted to share.

Do you receive a flank bonus if you have a weapon with reach? In other words, do you and your ally have to base the enemy in order to receive the flank bonus? Or can your ally base the enemy and you stand 1 square away with your reach weapon to receive the flank bonus?

And what weapon is best for battlefield control? I see the heavy flail and Guisarme are quite effective. Are there any others that might be better?

Thanks!

[Gwendol]

Spiked chain is one of the best weapons in the game, and is useful for battlefield control. You can flank with a reach weapon, it works just as with a non-reach weapon.

[nedz]

Flanking with reach is actually slightly better in that you can be another square either side and still flank. Diagram PH p 153

[Xander96]

Let me ask this question then. What makes the spiked chain better than the heavy flail?

Flail, heavy 15 gp 1d8 1d10 19–20/×2 — 10 lbs. B disarm, trip

Chain, spiked 25 gp 1d6 2d4 ×2 — 10 lbs. P disarm, trip

It looks like the flail is cheaper, has better damage output and you don't have to use a feat in order to gain exotic weapon prof to use the spiked chain

That's just my observation anyways

[Andreaz]

Let me ask this question then. What makes the spiked chain better than the heavy flail?

Reach. In 3.5, you can use it both adjacent to you and a square away. That plus the Trip quality are what make it so powerful.

[gallagher]

Reach. In 3.5, you can use it both adjacent to you and a square away. That plus the Trip quality are what make it so powerful.

Just want to say that the way you phrased this, it made me think that you were saying that all reach weapons threaten two squares in all directions.

This is almost unique to the spiked chain, a couple other exotic weapons have a similar trait, where they have reach and still threaten the immediate square in front of you. This is different than, say, the longspear, that has reach and doesnt threaten the immediate squares without a feat (short haft, i think)

And yes, that special ability and the trip bonus make it almost the paragon of weapons

[Keld Denar]

For pure control, the Spike Chain is the premier weapon. It gets the advantage of PA and 1.5x str at close range, as well as primary weapon enhancements. This is most important for Standstill DCs. That gives it a leg up on the Guisarme, the second best control weapon. That benefit is well worth the feat you part to use it, IMO. Control melee are also often enlarged. Being enlarged with a Guisarme doubles the dead zone adjacent to you, which drops your ability to control significantly as it lessens the effectiveness if your 5' steps.

[Xander96]

The reach quality for the spiked chain you guys are referring to. Is that according to 3.5 in D&D? The spiked chain in PF lists as not having the reach quality, but rather disarm and trip

[TuggyNE]

The reach quality for the spiked chain you guys are referring to. Is that according to 3.5 in D&D? The spiked chain in PF lists as not having the reach quality, but rather disarm and trip

Yes, PF nerfed the spiked chain significantly, and it's now hardly worth EWP (like most other exotic weapons).