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    BlackDragon

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    smile AD&D pyromancer build

    I really want to multiclass as a mage in my current AD&D session, but I've only ever been interested in fire magic. I'm wondering if anybody out there has done a AD&D pyromancer build. If so, I'd appreciate some help!

    So far I was thinking d4-d6 for hp with intelligence as the biggest stat requirement, but mostly I'm after fire spells that require higher level casting abilities. I'd also like any spells you guys come up with, descriptions of effects would be appreciated!

    I also figured I'd just use the standard mage table for what level spells I can cast. Likewise with the experience tables. Any tips and critiques are always appreciated!

    And for those reading this and wondering: Yes, I do like the word "appreciated".

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    AD&D? As in 1e?

    I can help you there. If you give me a moment to find my sourcebooks...

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Yes, as in the game that didn't even have a barbarian class. My DM, who's also my father, is very old school. He says that first was best, and I kinda believe him. But yeah, I'd really like any help you could give me! Not sure My DM won't throw a fit, but as long as its by the rules he won't say anything. He just like it "done right". Course that's coming from a guy who killed several pantheons of gods in the 1980's...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I might not be too much helkp as I am almost 100% positive that what I am about to say is for 2nd ed.

    but there is a pyromancer kit for the wizard out there somewhere.

    not too different form a regular wizard other than all the whole all you get is fire spells and Divination spells with a couple 'universal' I guess spells like Teleport/without error and such

    you gain the priest sphere elements in regards to fire only AND you get to cast burning hands so many times per day ( i think its starts out twice then goes up every 5th level)

    the really big kicker is you get to at some point ( i think around 8th level) fire reistance (the good old only take 50% dmg fromf ire based attacks) and you reduce fire immunity ( for most things elementals are still immune since well, they ARE fire) down to fire resistance at around 15th ish.

    while the whole ignoring fire resiatnce is perfect where it is at IMO ( becuase around 8th level is where you start coming inot contact with a lot of fire freidnly monsters) you really should have the ability to reduce fire immunity should coem online at 12th IMO.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Thanks! And if anybody comes up with 1e fire spells that would be great. If there are any more suggestions or helpful tips please post them on this thread. And thank you for the help already given to me.

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I remember that, when I played 1e, my DM let me buy a spell that straight-up doubled fire damage. I do believe it was 5th level, required a flask of oil as a material component... and I can't remember anything else.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I have something that you might like. I recently had a problem getting people to be certain types of wizards (ie., an evoker or an illusionist) because of the fact that it's completely not worth it later on when they're barred from some 9th level spells. So I made specializations within magic for my game world and amped up Evokers, Transmuters, Diviners etc as individual Subclasses. Just adjust it a little, or don't use it.

    "Wizard School Specialization

    To clarify: a wizard specializing in illusions is NOT an Illusionist. She is simply slightly better at illusions than her peers.

    Bonuses:
    >+5% chance to learn spells from Specialty school.
    >+1 to spellcraft checks to identify or counter spells from Specialty school.
    >+1 to saving throws versus spells from Specialty school.
    >Target is at -1 to save versus spells cast by the specialist wizard from her Specialty school.

    Hinderances:
    >-5% chance to learn spells from Opposing schools.
    >-1 to spellcraft checks to identify or counter spells from Opposing school.
    >-1 to saving throws versus spells from Opposing school, if applicable.
    >Target is at +1 to save versus spells cast by the specialist wizard from her Opposing school."

    And I can't seem to find my Subclass wizard rules, but if you'd like, I can post them when I find/rewrite them.

    TL:DR
    Just make little tweaks to fire-related spellcasting for that one subclass, give them occasional bonuses, try to make balance by "nerfing" cold spells or something like that, and do not make any other class obsolete with it. OR think of something else and (if you don't mind) let us know what you come up with?
    “Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry.”
    Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Does your dad know about you asking about this?

    Also, have you checked Dragonsfoot? They have a sizable amount of 1e stuff for you to look through, so I'm pretty sure they'll have something that will tickle your fancy.

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    BlackDragon

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    smile Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    To answer: Yes my DM knows I'm trying to come up with a balanced promancer and said it's cool if I get some help. Mostly I just need fire spells, because there aren't that many fire spells, and some tips on resistances and weaknesses. He used to make spells all the time but lost his books over the years. Why were you asking?

    Also, the thing about fire resistance increasing: please put down a level table like the thief has for % open lock. that'd be great. Unless you just recommend using one of those percentile tables as a surragate and converting the "chance to pick" to "chance to resist fire". Any tips at all would be great though. Oh, and like I mentioned before, I'd really like some fire/lava/incineration spells.

    What school of magic is fire listed in? transmutation? Would limiting a mage to only be able to cast spells from that school be a good restriction for the power of resist fire and bonus fire damage? should bonus fire damage be an option, if so should it also be a % table? any tips at all would really help, and I again thank those who have helped!

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I was asking because it is important to know whether or not everyone is on the same page.

    I ask the same to anyone I'm thinking of helping when they say that they want something 'brewed.

    I'll see if I can write up some stuff over the next couple of days...

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Alright! Just curious, and I'm going to continue to fill my DM in on any developments. And for anybody else reading this: fire/lava/incineration spells are still a need. Anybody's opinion on a cool spell would be fine, really just fishing for ideas here!

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Quick ideas to drop:

    Fire shurikens: There's a neat-o spell in 3.5 that creates shuriken out of fire. Maybe a spell that let's you pull tongues of flame out of a fire, and then it lets you throw them (or give them to the Fighter) as if they were throwing-knives for the duration of the spell?

    I would put it at 2nd level, just about.

    As for lava... what level is stone-to-mud at again? I think you could put it at one level higher, throwing some fire damage onto it.

    And, if you aren't worried about silly too much... MAGMA KRAKEN! would make an excellent 9th level spell (actually, it would be around 7-8th level; it grapples like a Fighter of half you level, and deals fire damage, which is a bit better than Mordenkainen's Sword (if I remember correctly.))

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    BlackDragon

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    biggrin Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Magma kraken? Silly? That's not silly, that's freakin epic! If anybody comes up with a spell even half that epic then please wright it on this thread!

    Magma kraken. Totally awesome.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Im justa ssuming that sicne your playing AD&D, that your Uncle has a LOT of old source books lying around that are problably 1st as well as 2nd edition.

    AMechra pointed out the 3.5 fire shuriken, well teh original version of that spell comes form the Complete guide to nijas for 2nd.

    I have an old OLD netbook (form like 20 or so years ago) that is chalk full of elemental related things Kits (or what you 3rd ed peeps consider PrCs) spells, monsters and a ton fo other such stuff. its a HUGE document but has something liek 1000+ spells.
    I think ist just called the great elemental netbook or something that simple.

    the CORE of the rules between 1st and 2nd were not that much different (especially compared to the 2nd to 3rd changes) so one is easily adapt 2nd to 1st and vice versa

    and fire spells are easy just say something and then put fire before that whne you write it down.

    I invented FIRE DEATH SPELL once back in the day.. even though that singular moment was decades ago, its still a favorite story of mine to tell newbies at my table.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    What were the specifics of the death fire spell? Like what was the level cast and dmg as well as effect?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Well I have to give the backstory before I cna tell you about fire death spell..

    You see this was way back in highschool ( ya know before thing like the wheel was inventeded, at least it seems that way...) and My friends and i were playing a mage heavy and deeply invovled campaign ( by mage heavy i meant we had 3 mages and 1 paladin in our party, Myself an elemental mage, a necromancer, and a dragon mage.

    SO all of our characters knew each other and grew up together in this tiny hamlet. there was a child hood love interest that my character had for the longest time,, to cut a long story short all of our characters came back to the village after doing some prettty heroic things and My character was set to marry his love interest, (we all were 10th level by this time) Of course the wedding night my love interest and i did consumated the thing all proper-ish like.

    the next morning the girl was having weird pains a that went form 'ouch' to OMG IMMA DIE NOW!!" to POW a baby comes out.. and not just any kind of baby but some kind fo half demonic thing ( she was secretly some type of demon. maybe an erinyes.. cannot rember exactly) and my mage just freaked out and started casting spells lightning bolt, vitriolic splash etc etc then as i was naming what spells my guys was casting OOCly i jumbled words and stuff together and yelled "FIREDEATH SPELL!!!"

    So, I killed my character true love and the child. only to find out right then and there that pow ! she was a redeemed demon and I had made a terrible mistake QUE epic super quest to find her and make it al right, never got to finish that campaign, its literally the only one that i have left unfinished and actually would want to see it through to fruition, but enough of my rants.. lets get tot he meat of the spells

    It was basically a combination of firestorm and banshee's wail.

    FIRE DEATH SPELL!!!
    (Evocation)
    Range: 120 yards Components: V,S
    Duration: Instantaneous Casting Time: 9
    Area of Effect: 2 10-foot cubes /level Saving Throw: special
    When a FIRE DEATH SPELL spell is cast, the whole area is shot through with sheets of roaring flame. The raging flames harm any creatures in the area, except for the caster. Any creature within the area takes 2d8+1 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 40D8+20). A successful saves halves the damage, those who failed the initial save must save again vs petrification, polymorph or death or be instantly slain.

    this is just going off the top of my head.. there might be some small differences between this and the real thnig, which is buried in my old D&D stuff.

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I played a pyromancer once in 1st Ed. He was just a regular mage who loved fire but the DM gave me leeway to make up spells with relative ease in exchange for being so limited in what spells i would take.

    What I did was reflavour spells. Instead of Slow you get Heat Exhaustion instead of Feeblemind Heat Stroke. Heat Haze rather than Obscurement, stuff like that.

    Also i made new things like give him the spells to buff allies with flaming weapons and armour, the spells to melt the metal of his opponents. I had a wall of light, and a version of Agnazzar's scorcher. Went all Human Torch on that bad boy as well, turned him into a Man on Fire at higher levels.

    Of course you could get all the druid spells like Chariot of Sustarre and Heat Metal, Fire Trap and Produce Flame, Fire Seeds and Fire Storm. Oriental Adventures in 1E had some goodies. Fire Eyes (heat vision!) Fire Wings (Flight and decent attacks) Drought (Destroys a whole ecosystem) Internal Fire (Save or die a fiery death)

    A few spells in an old dragon magazine are perfect for this.
    Flare: 1st level long distance signal
    Enchanted Torch: 3rdContinual Light but on FIRE
    Fire Mouth: 3rd Like a Fire Trap but with a bigger area of effect
    Fabulous fireball: Controllable AoE and can turn corners 4th
    Fire Phantom: Summons a Phantom Stalker flaming version of Invisible stalker
    Flaming Weapon: Turns a sword into a Flame Tongue for a while 8th (too high i think)
    Hellfire: 9th Permanent curse. HP permanently drops to one, in constant sweaty agony, exhausted. Takes a wish to undo.

    Oh and speaking of Dragon there was the old Witch NPC class that had an epic spell called volcanic circle that did 8-80 damage and kept growing

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by Lvl45DM!; 2012-11-09 at 10:00 AM.
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    Thumbs up Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Alright, thanks! Any more cool spells for a 1e pyromancer would be great! And thanks to the people who have already given me stuff!

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    1st edition Oriental Adventures has a fair number of fire spells, like Fiery Eyes and Wings of Fire and Fire Shuriken. The Wu Jen class itself has some guidelines for a 'fire specialist' that you might be able to pillage for ideas.

    2nd edition Al-Qadim also has a decent number of fire spells, and the differences between 2nd edition and 1st edition are small enough as to not matter much. Similarly, the wizard kits can specialize in fire, or in fire and another element, and might be mine-able for ideas.

    Other than Phandal's Flame Ray and Agannazar's Scorcher (both from an issue of dragon, but A's Scorcher was reprinted a few times, IIRC), I don't remember too many fire-related spells from the Realms.

    As for making up your own spells;

    One that uses a flask of oil as a component and causes it to linger for X number of rounds, doing continuing damage until extinguished, or explode on impact to do full damage to it's splash radius (or both!), could make for a poor man's fireball at 1st or 2nd level.

    One that causes a weapon to burst into flame and function like a flame brand for a time.

    One that sets an area of ground on fire, so that everyone remaining in a burning square takes 1d6 or 2d6 fire damage at the end of each round. It burns out in rounds equal to your level. Perhaps maintainable via concentration, like wall of fire? Call it floor of fire? :)

    Spells with fiery aspects that can affect creatures that might otherwise be immune to fire could include conjuring clouds of blinding / choking embers and smoke.

    Or you could leverage your mastery of heat and flame to draw the heat out of a creature to create a fire attack! (The initial target suffers cold damage of 1d6/level, and generates a fire blast from the stolen heat that lashes out from the initial target to strike one other creature within 30 ft. of it with a 1d6/level fire blast! You get to damage two creatures with one attack, and have a legitimate reason why your 'fire mage' is doing cold damage to one of them.)

    A higher level variation on this might drain all the heat from a fireball sized area (everybody therein takes cold damage, otherwise as fireball) and on the round *after* you draw in all this heat, you can then use the absorbed heat energy to plotz down a fireball-like effect (perhaps with a bonus if you launch this 'fireball' at creatures already damaged by the 'cold ball,' as the sudden temperature reversal makes them take +1 hp / die damage, or penalizes their saving throw by -4).

    Variations on other funky 1st edition spells, like the ubiquitous 'create a bunch of floating spheres that do stuff in later rounds' spells from the realms, could work. Cast a spell to create a number of fiery snakes that fly around you, and can be launched 1 / round to attack a single target within 30 ft. or 60 ft. as a 2d6+6 fire damage attack. While they orbit you, you get a +1 to AC and saves vs. fire or cold for each snake remaining, and if you are hit by a fire or cold attack, you can sacrifice one or more snakes to block damage equal to the damage that snake would have done if it attacked someone.

    The Realms setting was also replete with spells that conjured magical whips or swords (or, more rarely, other weapons, like the 'mace of odo'). One that creates a sword of fire that works kind of like spiritual hammer (but fire damage, natch) or a whip of fire that automatically attacks and binds and burns anyone that engages you in melee combat, could go along that theme.

    Charging a weapon with an energy discharge could also work. 'Fire Dagger' could infuse a dagger with all the heat and fire that went into it's forging, causing it to 'unforge' itself as it strikes a foe, turning back into molten metal and inflicting 2d6 fire damage, as it melts apart. (1d6 fire damage to the holder, if he's using it in melee, making this more of something you use with a thrown dagger...) A staff version could cause the staff to burn at one end like a torch for 1 turn / level, although you can hit people with it for +1d6 fire damage (causing it to lose 1 turn of duration per hit, and any non-magical staff to be destroyed at the end of the effect. Magical staves survive the effect unharmed.).
    Last edited by Set; 2012-11-15 at 11:51 AM.

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Would you like me to see if I can write up MAGMA KRAKEN!?

    I'd be happy to try.

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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I was wondering, does your DM allow spell combinations? Because if so, I have an awesome variant for Tsunami. With Lava!

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    smile Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Any spells at all would be awesome! And I think a magma kraken would be sweet! As for spell combinations: go for it. I'm accepting any and all spells that anyone can come up with. If you think it's a ridiculous spell, post it anyways. And post any fire related spells you think of! Any heat related spells for that matter. And thanks again to anybody who has posted spells, everything you give me helps!

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    BlackDragon

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    Question Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Also, would repurposing the effect of a spells be good? Like turning Disintegrate into Incinerate? Or turning Lightning Bolt into Red Heat Lightning?
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I would not see why most DMs would take issue againts it. as long as the mechanicla effects of the spell were the same.

    for me you could call disintegrate 'flower kitty cupcake babies' and as long as the spell did what it said it did in teh spells description i would not care at all..


    but there are a (very very small i hope) minority who dislikes refluffing such and get all worked about it, best bet is to ask your DM if that such is ok.

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    BlackDragon

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    Question Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Also, could anybody give me like ten fire based non-alignment based familiars? Maybe fire snake and a flaming pseudo dragon? Maybe a diminutive Phoenix? But if you list one please list their HP and the bonus they give their master. Thanks everybody!
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    BlackDragon

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    Thumbs up Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Phoenix: +1 bonus spell memory at each level. As in you get to remember 1 more first level spell, 1 more second level spell and etc... You can't remember bonus spells from 9th level unless you have at least 1 spell memory in that cast level.

    Fire Sprite: bonus damage equal to 2xlevel with all spells(stacks on top of itself if the spell already gives you bonus damage equal to your caster level)

    Fire Wolf: bonus to smell and hear. Added bonus tracking ability.

    Flame Snake: bonus to save equal to int. mod.( never less than 2) Bonus to speed = int. mod. X 2. Follows above standard(Never less than 2, which is 4")

    Fire hawk: bonus to sight distance and hearing. Resist fire = int. mod.(never less than 2)

    Mini fire-hydra: added/bonus health regeneration equal to int. mod. (Never less than 1 a turn)

    Volcanic Psuedo-Dragon- bonus to cast time, and can dual cast. Bonus to cast time is equal to Int. Mod. minus the segment cost. So if Int. Mod is 3 and cost is 6 segments you can now cast it in 3 segments. Dual cast applies to the ability to cast to same spell from each hand if possible. Dual cast consumes double the material components.

    Do these make sense? Too overpowered? Too underpowered? Take into account that I can't cast things like Wish, Enchant, Any Illusion, Conjuration, Divination or Abjuration. Also take into account that I'll have to get another Mage to help me cast this because I can't ever learn Conjurations. How do these look? And please still add your own touches to these or even create your own! Anything you give me helps! And don't worry about listing HP, I forgot that it's just half of your own...
    Last edited by killer_monk; 2012-11-21 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Wasn't clear enough.
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    Like moths to a flame

    The Void calls me home
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    dual cast seems a bit OPed

    I would nix the pheonix ability and intead make it give you a self resurrection that can oly ever occur once.


    then I would just make that pheonix ability stanard as you are basically a specialist already, and specialist do get a bonus spell but it HAS to be of thei speciality

    so your spells would go at first level 1st +1st fire spell.

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    BlackDragon

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    Thumbs up Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    Would only allowing one handed spells be a good fix? And dual cast was a metamagic feat in forgotten realms. That's where I got the idea?

    And I'd give the Phoenix an owner resurrect on a yearly basis. That way it's not just some one-shot item that I'd trade out for a new familiar as soon as it was expended. Sound good?

    Any other familiars anybody can think of that are fire related would be cool! Just post them and I'll take a shot at it!
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    As you lay dying
    Time seems to slow to a pause
    And you see the Dark

    Something that you hate
    But something you are drawn to
    Like moths to a flame

    The Void calls me home
    Gates of Blackness open wide
    All things will end here

    A haiku- Jesse J. Lee


    Looking for feedback on a current project-





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    BlackDragon

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    smile Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    I started playing this build the other day, just testing it out. I found that there aren't enough 1-2 level fire spells. I also thought of a few new spells:

    Blackflame: Your flames burn blacker than the void they came from! the effect is 6+caster level in turns. all fire magic cast in this time period does cold damage instead of fire damage. cumbustibles still ignite as normal. 1st level spell. (buff)

    Holy/Unholy Purge: Your flames do holy/unholy damage instead of fire damage.
    6+caster level duration. cumbustibles ignite as if it was real flame. 1st level spell. (buff)

    Flame Control: Allows you to control your flames. As would a telekineses spell allow you to control a boulder. no bonus to damage. (What would be a fair bonus "to hit"? what about spell level? Duration?

    Any other spells you guys could throw at me?

    And i've been using the thief % to "pickpocket" tables in 1e for a fire resistance and bonus fire damage. Doesn't feel overpowered and the only table that really comes into play is the bonus fire damage. My spells are low enough in level that i might get +1 to damage if I hit heavy. Tell me what you guys think! Every bit helps!
    Last edited by killer_monk; 2012-11-26 at 11:47 AM.
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    Time seems to slow to a pause
    And you see the Dark

    Something that you hate
    But something you are drawn to
    Like moths to a flame

    The Void calls me home
    Gates of Blackness open wide
    All things will end here

    A haiku- Jesse J. Lee


    Looking for feedback on a current project-





  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: AD&D pyromancer build

    those are pretty good.

    I fail to see how the 2 or so dozen of fire spells aren't 'enough' but eh.

    I would definately move holy/unholy purge up to at least 3rd level. or 2nd level if you make the duration equal to your level.
    being able to make all of yoru spells ignore any type of resistance and capable of dealing double damage on the vast majority of what you are going to fight is a bit more powerful than a 1st level spell.

    Id make flame control 4th level, you said its bascially telekinses except that it works only against fire so that weakens it enough to drop a level. Im confused as to what you mean by bonus 'to hit'

    Flame wave is an idea. its just a flame wall that rushes over people, dealing flame wall damage (admittedyl not that much) but can set them on fire (ala melf's minute meteors) and knocks them down if they fail their save. (the knocking down is what makes this spell good)

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