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Thread: Necrons vs Daleks
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2012-11-06, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Twice is horribly overused?
I barely even count the single Dalek case personally, and think the writers figured that too. You didn't really think just one escaped did you? So you really only have from the Emperor to the Cult of Skaro. The Cult explicitly escaped so its hardly "oh they're all dead"
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2012-11-06, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
For a bunch with genius level int scores the Daleks always struck me as incredibly thick.
Also I thought the necrons serve the C'tan.Last edited by 1dominator; 2012-11-06 at 12:17 PM.
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2012-11-06, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2012-11-06 at 12:18 PM.
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2012-11-06, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
The daleks were using anti-gravity disks for "flight" and going out in jungles long before that. It's really only in their original appearance(s) that they were limited to cities (and that was primarily due to power constraints).
The "limited to cities" and "defeated by stairs" were largely brought about by the limitations of filming people in dalek suits back in the early days of television.Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
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2012-11-06, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
The Daleks apparently really took that one time the Forth Doctor made a crack about it to heart...
(Note that that incident was largely responsible for the popular culture myth Daleks couldn't climb stairs, and a mispercieved one at that, as the opening the Doctor was taunting them through was also one that was too small for a Dalek to fit through. They had been implied to have levitating capabilites off-screen for a long time, and also in non-TV media appeances, like comic adaptions (where they could afford to do it); in one instance as far back as the First Doctor's The Chase, a Dalek was shown to rise vertically out of sand (not saying it was well done, this being early Doctor Who, but it was done...!))Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-11-06 at 12:55 PM.
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2012-11-06, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
It all boils down to one question, really...
...which one does The Doctor see as the greater threat?
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2012-11-06, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-06, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
And yes, NuWho never came up with new enemies like the Silence, or the Weeping Angels, or the Vashta Nerada, or the Ood.
Also the Daleks are all dead hasn't been a thing for the last 3 seasons, though I will admit it was horribly overused during the Davies run.
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2012-11-06, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-06, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Time War/Dalek episode= Daleks are all dead. 1
Bad Wolf= Insane Dalek empire shows up. All Daleks are supposedly wiped out by Rose. 2
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday= Dalek invasion, technically Cult of Skaro are shown surviving, all other Daleks sucked into the abyss. I'm gonna give it 2.5
Stolen Earth= Davros and the Dalek Empire is back, Doctor Donna wipes out the Daleks. 3.5
Victory of the Daleks= whoops looks like Donna wasn't quite so successful but now they're back, they're surprisingly shiny and they're here to say.
So 3/3.5 times the Daleks have been wiped out. Yes, that is overdone. Hell, I would say that twice is overdoing it. Have the episode Dalek (because it was awesome), and then show some of the Daleks escaping from Bad Wolf and whammo, no need to waste time introducing why some small pocket has survived their extinction.
The Silence are still a threat in Doctor Who, arguably they are the big bads of the series forcing the Doctor to work in the shadows (though part of my problem with season 7 is he's not doing that, at all). Ood have been the enemy in a few episodes, though largely as minions. Also for recurring threat you're forgetting the Cybermen, and I would say 3 episodes (actually 4 but that's because it was a two-parter) does make the Angels a recurring threat.
The Doctor has said he wiped them all since then.Last edited by Dienekes; 2012-11-06 at 04:54 PM.
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2012-11-06, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
You specified Davies remember? Moffat did it one last time and hasn't since. For that matter as we went from Victory to Asylum with all of a glorified cameo in between including IIRC a season without Daleks. It seems like not killing them off is a better way to ensure they stay away.
And seriously at this point its more tradition that the Daleks are all wiped out to reappear later... given that happened in their very first Classic appearence.
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2012-11-06, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Good grief - well back in the Hartnell days then! I only really go as far back as the late Pertwee stories (although I have read earlier novelisations). The incident I was thinking about was set on a jungle planet, and had a dalek going up some form of chimney on an anti-gravity disk - two for the price of one...
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
"The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud
"Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee
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2012-11-06, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-06, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
You sir EL-a-VATE the quality of this conversation.
On the greater topic, I have a strong sense that the main difference will be if we are using the Necrons and Daleks as they are implied (intended/supposed) to exist within the context of their respective settings or if we are using the Necrons and Daleks as they are displayed (shown/actualized) in their settings?
Do we go on the fluff or the crunch of Necrons (and seeing as I'm somewhat weak on my warhammer credentials is there much discrepancy there)?
Do we use what the Daleks are definately capable of, or what they actually do? For being an implacable race of omnicidal geniuses they do seem to have idiot balls strapped into their cybernetics.
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2012-11-06, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
Originally Posted by Dienekes
I wouldn't count the Ood as a recurring enemy because they've only actually been the enemy once. They have been antagonists otherwise, but only as mind-slimed slaves with no real control over there actions. I wouldn't call a necromancer controlled zombie an enemy, for example. I think the Cybermen have only been shown two or three times since the start of Nu Who where they were an enemy (instead of simply present, or getting their stuff rocked by the Doctor during the Demon's Run arc).
I take the position that two part-er episodes are one, so the Angels have been the enemy in three episodes, by my count. I think the Angels have the possibility to be a good recurring threat (despite my hatred of them as a Sci-Fi enemy), but I think their low episode present to total episode ratio is too low for me to consider them a truly recurring threat as of yet.
Ok, I guess I can see I was unclear. When I said last 3 seasons I was including season 7 which is only half done. Season 5 re-introduces the Daleks in Victory of the Daleks which re-established their empire. They have not yet been destroyed again. Though they were made to forget the Doctor, it was stupid.
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2012-11-06, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Do we go on the fluff or the crunch of Necrons (and seeing as I'm somewhat weak on my warhammer credentials is there much discrepancy there)?Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-11-06 at 09:44 PM.
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2012-11-07, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-07, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
...
What?
That was like, the entire point of the episode... The old Daleks show up, con the Doctor into helping them open the Genesis Arc and creating a whole new paradigm of Daleks and then buggerin' off while the Doctor had to stop that guy explodinatin' London with the Dalek bomb in his chest.
In the meta-sense, that whole episode was set-up to undo the "Daleks are nearly wiped out" schtick precisely because it was getting silly.
(Not to mention the several Dalek cameos between Victory and Asylum.)
Or are you just taking a swipe at the (rather unfairly, I thought) maligned design of the new Daleks (which were floating around in the background still in Asylum)? I really can't tell.Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-11-07 at 03:37 AM.
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2012-11-07, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
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2012-11-07, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Yes and Davies wiped the Daleks out 3 times. I think we're talking past each other I'm counting when they were declared to be extinct, I think you're counting when they came back unexpectedly.
You have a very specific definition of recurring. To me recurring just means, they recur. Angels are that, as are Cyberman. They have shown up as antagonists in more than 1 story. Cybermen have 4 off the top of my head, maybe more, not including when they were just background characters.
Also as has been pointed out, you're not remembering Victory of the Daleks very well. The point of the episode was that the show makers (hopefully) never have to waste time explaining how they came back again. Mind you Asylum of the Daleks left a whole bunch of other questions that needed answering (Like how did Skaro come back? Why do the Daleks need genius all of a sudden? Why were we/the Daleks supposed to be afraid of what appears to be the useless broken down models? And why where the Daleks able to be reprogrammed as though they were robots and not living creatures inside a tank shell?)
Though I think we've hijacked this thread enough. If you want to continue the conversation please post your response in the Doctor Who thread.
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2012-11-07, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
Originally Posted by Dienekes
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2012-11-07, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Ah. You were probably confusing Victory with the end the Stolen Earth with Davros or something, then. (Which sort of thing Victory was supposed to stop happening again, because frankly killing off the Daleks was a bit daft, in my opinion.)
(Personally, that is one of my favourite episodes, period.)
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2012-11-07, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Stolen Earth being another episode I've tried to purge from my brain for being ridiculous donkey ****.
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2012-11-07, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-07, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Ahh yes seems to be the case.
Well speaking of Davros he's apparently been back from the dead for 3 out of 5 of his appearances. So it seems to run in the family. Or maybe its something about Skaro since it seems to run in the planet too. And Time Lords. Heck for that matter I believe the Master has *technically* only regenerated properly once in the stoy, so him too.
And lets face it "impossible" and "permanent death" are some of those notions humans clearly cling to wrongly in the Whoniverse. Except that when viewed from a non-linear non-subjective perspective its more like ball of wib-... No wait that speech was for something else.
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2012-11-07, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2012-11-07 at 04:31 PM.
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2012-11-07, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
The real problem is that 40k fluff makes grandiose claims, but then the rules mechanics just turn them into a marginally better version of boring normal soldiers.
Regardless, I vote Daleks. Their power armour is probably better than Space Marines and being able to exterminate with one shot the things that they can, the widdle nekkies will soon just be vapour.*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
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2012-11-07, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
I'm voting Dalek. They can individually fly through space/time, which means that the enemy is effectively borked when it comes to space combat. Try firing enough to wipe out millions of tiny shielded people, and you will get stung to death. I would put them at an advantage in ground combat as well, since they can all fly and Necrons cannot.
Necrons have better weapons, and they can teleport between planets (webways), but I think the greater flexibility of the Daleks would let them win out. Or it would if either of them acted as smart as they are fluffed; Daleks tend to slowly hover forward and shoot at people.
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2012-11-07, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
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2012-11-09, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necrons vs Daleks
Well, I read this part of the Necron Codex where it says they can basically erase planets and parts of the universe, but the consequences would be unimaginable. That and the fact the Doctor already exterminated the Daleks a alot of times, and everything in 40k is constructed to be just that much bigger, better and more badass in everyday way, than everything else. I'd say the Necrons stand quite a good chance. When this is said, I love both universes, but at the Daleks current state they aren't very threatening (That is, until a screenwriter decides to revive them yet again, for the hundredth time.) compared to trillions and trillions of Necrons. Both races has mind shattering technologies beyond imagination, which is almost impossible to compare.
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