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  1. - Top - End - #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtytabs View Post
    Are spoilers off 72 hours after the episode airs, or are they off on Tuesday at a specific time?
    I would recommend 72 hours after the episode airs, which is Tuesday at the same airtime. (10AM EST) If nothing else, it at least avoids the Tuesday-in-which-timezone argument from cropping up.
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  2. - Top - End - #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    I think the biggest thing about that was that Twilight is developing into some sort of crazy magic sponge, or a "Blue Mage"
    To be honest, Twilight's "Blue Mage" tendencies are nothing particularly new; going all the way back to the S1 premier, it's implied that Twlight learned how to teleport after watching Nightmare Moon do so.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

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  3. - Top - End - #843
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    I wonder how that works? I don't think Twilight has any mystical senses. Maybe she's so brilliant and has such a strong understanding of the basic principles of magic that any time she sees a new spell's effects she's able to deduce how it must work from first principles.

  4. - Top - End - #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Presumably that would be a story about how alien ponies came to Earth wherein, in between difficult-to-follow action sequences, it would be about dozen humans (several of them scantifly clad females with little depth) being pathetic, while the ponies themselves get about five minute's screen time and one line a piece apart from Celestia and maybe Nightmare Moon...
    Quote Originally Posted by otakuryoga View Post
    lets not forget we would see every identifiable ponyville building explode(from multiple angles)
    50% explodey time/50% "dialogue" is about right for Bay 8)
    And then the following Monday after opening weekend we sit here wondering who keeps funding that guy for movies like that. Because we want in on this kind of money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    Poor Pinkie Pie. She even confuses herself.
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    Well, she has stated such herself in "Swarm of the Century".
    Since Pinkie has two sisters, I wonder if she has "Middle Kid Syndrome"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    So Twilight used 'dark' magic. What's the playground consensus? Is it Dark like the pokemon type and there are no consequences to using it and the show will barely mention it again? Or is it possible the season finale villain will be Evil Twilight?
    Hmm... Dark Phoenix Saga with ponies?


    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    I wonder how that works? I don't think Twilight has any mystical senses. Maybe she's so brilliant and has such a strong understanding of the basic principles of magic that any time she sees a new spell's effects she's able to deduce how it must work from first principles.
    Maybe Twilight has the powers of Haruhi Suzumiya?
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2012-11-13 at 01:54 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #845
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    I hope we come back to the dark magic in the future and have an episode with evil Twilight.

  6. - Top - End - #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Dark like the Pokemon type. We have no reason to believe otherwise considering how casually Celestia herself used the magic. Furthermore it just looked odd but it's not like it did anything evil besides looking odd. Finally people are overreacting to the whole thing. If anypony could handle dark magic it's Twilight.
    I would say that we do have reason to believe otherwise because of what Celestia said though before casting the spell. Particularily "if hatred and fear take hold" before using the magic on the crystal.

    The blackening of the crystals is a direct result of a magical reflection of fear and hatred. Normal magic can be used to be generated into hope for crystal or nothing at all, but only dark magic has been shown to be able to fill it with hatred. If it is not only cast under negative emotions, it can be said to at the very least produce negative emotion in a magic form as a side effect of its type. Also Sombra's smoke form could be said to be dark magic given form. Cadance's shield was made out of love magic, and for it to repress his magic and completely refute him and his magical attempts on the land, there has to be something tied to his magic which is polar opposite of love, which is logically hate.

    Also the fact that Celestia could causally use it adds a bit more depth to her character. As shown with discord she is capable of feeling fear and hatred, and this cemented that fact for me.

    Twilight used dark magic twice, once with a large amount of effort on her part, which makes sense since Twilight isn't a hateful pony, and the second time when she was frustrated, which is a negative emotion, and it came extremely easily to her that time. It could be as a result of having casted it before but I am not ready to declare that experience is the only reason for it.

    Dark magic, throughout the entirety of the episode, has been tied to negative emotion.

    I am willing to say that it is something that can be used, but should not be used often, if it was without consequence it would be shown to unicorns in cases besides a alicorn doing a demonstration of what would happen if her prized student failed, or in the case of a completely evil being who could use it at will.

    Edit: Though I do believe that even if this is the case, Twilight can handle the knowledge of dark magic and would be responsible enough to limit its use to reasonable levels, if it does have a corrupting influence.
    Last edited by TheDarkblade; 2012-11-13 at 02:02 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    To be honest, Twilight's "Blue Mage" tendencies are nothing particularly new; going all the way back to the S1 premier, it's implied that Twlight learned how to teleport after watching Nightmare Moon do so.
    Teleporting is actually the weirdest example. Twilight's first teleport appears to be accidental, and when she does it again in episode 3 she fries herself and Spike a bit. She mastered it by episode 4, but it's definitely implied that she couldn't copy it right off the bat, at least not properly.

    The biggest blue mage marker was Twilight copying Rarity's gem-finding spell in season 1. To a lesser extent her development of multiple tricks and frequent use of new spells such as wings, the parasprite no-eating trick (a poor choice), and all the stuff in the ursa minor episode also indicate her ability to acquire new magic.

    This season premier is actually the first definite example of her seeing a spell used once and then copying it exactly. Although, having been introduced to Shining Armor and Cadance, it seems likely that her shield and want it need it spells were also copied.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

  8. - Top - End - #848
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    I would like to point out that Twilight had to expend more effort to produce dark magic than Celestia did. Magic prodigy, that Twilight.

    Having reconciled myself with the weak writing of the premere. I have a new headcanon:


    Cadance is not Celestia's niece in a blood related way. She appeared roughly three decades ago (pony life standard time) as a baby alicorn along with the Crystal fragment we saw Celestia possessing. As the last of the line of the Crystal Kingdom, her appearence actually heralded the reappearence of the kingdom itself, hence guards were posted to observe and report upon the frozen north.
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  9. - Top - End - #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kairaven View Post
    I would like to point out that Twilight had to expend more effort to produce dark magic than Celestia did. Magic prodigy, that Twilight.
    I interpreted that as just because Twilight was figuring it out on the spot, not because it necessarily required more effort from her than from Celestia every time she ever casts such a spell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

  10. - Top - End - #850
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    At this point I would actually assume that Cadance is related to Sombra, and descended from any surviving exiles.

  11. - Top - End - #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkblade View Post
    Twilight used dark magic twice, once with a large amount of effort on her part, which makes sense since Twilight isn't a hateful pony, and the second time when she was frustrated, which is a negative emotion, and it came extremely easily to her that time. It could be as a result of having casted it before but I am not ready to declare that experience is the only reason for it.
    Personally, I like to think that part of the reason that Twilight had an easier time using dark magic the second time was partially due to dark magic becoming much easier to wield the more somepony uses it, until they find themselves relying on it out of habit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairaven View Post
    Having reconciled myself with the weak writing of the premere. I have a new headcanon:


    Cadance is not Celestia's niece in a blood related way. She appeared roughly three decades ago (pony life standard time) as a baby alicorn along with the Crystal fragment we saw Celestia possessing. As the last of the line of the Crystal Kingdom, her appearence actually heralded the reappearence of the kingdom itself, hence guards were posted to observe and report upon the frozen north.
    Also, consider that Cadance's cutie mark looks very similar to the crystal heart...
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

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  12. - Top - End - #852
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    Oh look! I finally pulled myself together and actually finished the next chapter of II. I deserve a cookie, or maybe a kick in the flank for not doing it sooner

    Chapter 11 of II

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Fedora View Post
    Deadly, a delightfully daring drawer and drafter of dissertations. Defying the dictations of our disparate denizens, Deadly decides his direction with a dirth of dependence on the decisions of despotic desperados. Deadly detests dismissive derision, and will debate any dude or dame that dares to detest discussion.

  13. - Top - End - #853
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    Personally, I like to think that part of the reason that Twilight had an easier time using dark magic the second time was partially due to dark magic becoming much easier to wield the more somepony uses it, until they find themselves relying on it out of habit.



    Also, consider that Cadance's cutie mark looks very similar to the crystal heart...
    I rather like the idea of addictive magic. It is a common trope, but one that I hold dear to my heart (and it explains why bad guys are always so much stronger than good guys.) Sombre might not have been all that powerful an individual, but abusing dark magic made him extremely powerful.

  14. - Top - End - #854
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    Sombra/speculation
    With apologies to the good Lich

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    Wait a second. There was no statue of Sombra. He was just gone... banished if you will, by the elements of harmony(the first time). Maybe he was actually possessed/corrupted by the whispering forces of darkness?

    Maybe there was a prophecy that he was going to be replaced by Cadance and he just snapped to hold onto power. So in order to hold off this prophecy, he curses his own kingdom as he goes into banishment. At the same time as his failure, the aforementioned whispering forces of darkness shift to try and get into Luna's mind.

    Ooh, delicious hints of a greater evil!
    Last edited by MCerberus; 2012-11-13 at 03:45 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #855
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    One of my fellow MMOC bronies tends to stream his drawings, but I would never even think about watching someone be so good at it, it'd just be depressing. Plus, it's usually rather boring:

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    On the subject of Twilight, I think I touched on this before. She seems to be the only one capable of learning a spell by simply watching someone do it. Well, I've wondered what precisely her "special talent" was. We know it's magic, but I always thought there was something a bit deeper than that. I think her talent specifically is being able to learn spells a lot (a LOT) easier than anyone else. Possibly even more than Celestia or Luna.

    I kind of hope they don't turn season 3+ into a story arch. I enjoy the episodes when they're not necessarily linked. Plus, I feel bad for Faust now, because I bet they're taking this in a far far different direction than she had planned (though rumors of the princesses' history coming up helps).
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-11-13 at 03:50 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I kind of hope they don't turn season 3+ into a story arch. I enjoy the episodes when they're not necessarily linked.
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    Well if Pinkie clones are because of an ongoing plot thread, we'd have to start assuming that forces are trying to destroy the entire world. Pinkie might be the most effective weapon to do so
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  17. - Top - End - #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by thubby View Post
    well, would you talk to yourself around others? if yes, it counts. if no, it wouldn't.
    I've never had that particular slip-up, but then im rather open and unapologetic about pony.
    Aye, sometimes when I need to get my thoughts in order (which is what I was doing here), I talk to myself out loud. Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    On careful deliberation entirely unrelated to the above revelation, as the goal was to see how long it would take until your brain was corrupted by pony, NOT how long until you gave your corruption by pony away in public, it probably does count. The best thing to do would be to check directly with those who have made wagers, directly and collectively.

    You should at least consider just ponying up though, so to speak.

    Now, you might have promised to draw ponies for people or something like that. This wouldn't have affected my reading of the situation AT ALL and if I happened to be more adamant that you had indeed triggered the forfeit it would be PURE COINCIDENCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jothki View Post
    I say that you were just lucky in that no one was there to notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I'm with Tiki, only lacking the obvious bias (at least, I don't recall being promised anything if I correctly guessed when your brain would fail you). Since the challenge was when you'd say somepony without intending it, the fact that you happen to talk to yourself out loud doesn't invalidate the slip-up.

    Long story short, somepony needs to start paying his wagers.
    Oof, even the lawyer pony has spoken. I agree that, by the letter of the agreement, this counts. It shows that ponies have infected my brain enough to make me mistake the two words, out loud, without noticing it until I speak them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    doesn't count. It needs to be in a legit conversation with non-bronies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    Keep going, I say, until you actually do it in conversation. See if anyone notices.

    On that topic, I don't say "anypony," but I think it a whole lot.
    However, there's also the principle of the thing. I feel like it's not exactly a true slip-up if it's just me, myself, and I. That, and it makes for a far less entertaining story for all y'all.



    So here's what I'm going to do: I'll count this as the end of this particular round. Once the piper has been paid, I'll put up another round of wagers for when I mess up in public. And this time, I'll explicitly outline what constitutes a slip-up.

    Now to take a look at the bets...

    Wow. A good chunk of you had just about zero faith in my willpower. We've got three folks who placed wagers within an hour of the starting date, and another three who had me at a mere 1 1/2 months. Yeesh. In fact, after the season ended, we only had two people still in the running. It looks like, in the end, Gamerlord wins the waiting game with his guess of One Year, as taken from September 17, 2011 (the start of season 2).

    Gamerlord: Pick any FiM song, and I shall belt it out with gusto. Next week, I'm off for Thanksgiving, have access to a microphone, and most importantly, might have the house to myself for a day or two. I should be able to record my warbling and get it up here around then.
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  18. - Top - End - #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I kind of hope they don't turn season 3+ into a story arch. I enjoy the episodes when they're not necessarily linked. Plus, I feel bad for Faust now, because I bet they're taking this in a far far different direction than she had planned (though rumors of the princesses' history coming up helps).
    I like the idea that maybe her next studies are going to be with Luna instead of Celestia, thus explaining the Mystery Book™. That could be done much like Lesson Zero changed the premise slightly (now they all write friendship reports), and not require an actual story arch. Maybe it'll mostly be that reports are sent to Luna from now on, and Luna shows up a little more and maybe takes a more active hoof in the studies than Celestia does. I'd be fine with that sort of thing.

    I share your suspicion about Faust and the direction, but I suppose it's just idle speculation and we'll have to just wait and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Fedora View Post
    Deadly, a delightfully daring drawer and drafter of dissertations. Defying the dictations of our disparate denizens, Deadly decides his direction with a dirth of dependence on the decisions of despotic desperados. Deadly detests dismissive derision, and will debate any dude or dame that dares to detest discussion.

  19. - Top - End - #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I kind of hope they don't turn season 3+ into a story arch. I enjoy the episodes when they're not necessarily linked. Plus, I feel bad for Faust now, because I bet they're taking this in a far far different direction than she had planned (though rumors of the princesses' history coming up helps).
    You can't keep doing only stand alones forever and stay fresh. I don't think we are in any danger of going fully storyline, but I for one would welcome a more interesting mix of stand alone and myth arc episodes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    Wow. A good chunk of you had just about zero faith in my willpower. We've got three folks who placed wagers within an hour of the starting date, and another three who had me at a mere 1 1/2 months. Yeesh. In fact, after the season ended, we only had two people still in the running. It looks like, in the end, Gamerlord wins the waiting game with his guess of One Year, as taken from September 17, 2011 (the start of season 2).

    Gamerlord: Pick any FiM song, and I shall belt it out with gusto. Next week, I'm off for Thanksgiving, have access to a microphone, and most importantly, might have the house to myself for a day or two. I should be able to record my warbling and get it up here around then.
    I pick The Flim Flam Brothers Song as my award.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    Sombra/speculation
    With apologies to the good Lich

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    Wait a second. There was no statue of Sombra. He was just gone... banished if you will, by the elements of harmony(the first time). Maybe he was actually possessed/corrupted by the whispering forces of darkness?

    Maybe there was a prophecy that he was going to be replaced by Cadance and he just snapped to hold onto power. So in order to hold off this prophecy, he curses his own kingdom as he goes into banishment. At the same time as his failure, the aforementioned whispering forces of darkness shift to try and get into Luna's mind.

    Ooh, delicious hints of a greater evil!
    Or, as I saw pointed out elsewhere (on the Nightmare Fuel TVtropes page for the show, actually), he's a possibily a worse (i.e. more evil) villain than the previous ones in his day, because he has no "excuse" like being a creature on inherent chaos or a species that feeds on love; he could have been just a unicorn who is more tyrannical and cruel as Ironhoof Celestia is preported to be; Lawful Evil to Discord's Chaotic Evil.

    Celestia, after all, didn't say "he was tragically cursed" or "he was corrupted", she said his "heart was as black as night." And she didn't make any mention of using the Elements of Harmony against him specifically (as she had on the other three villains), but the remit was to protect the Crystal Kingdom. Plus the fact he unequivocable was not banished, redeemed or even just petrified - but blown up - suggests that he must have not had much in the way of redeeming features.

    As was also pointed out, his plans for securing the Crystal Heart were fairly thorough, well-thought out and very nearly effective (anypony less than Twilight or the Princesses would have been styimed completely at the door, let alone the trap beyond it, which itself would have worked if Twilight had been alone.) He didn't waste time or effort; he didn't pound on the barrier, just sat and waited patiently for it to fail or fluctuate; he didn't monologue or gloat (even towards the end there), he just went straight onto the goal, and came very close to achieving it. And he not only unambiguously enslaved the populace (and was going to do it again), but had even put them under mind-control - at very best that was to further prevent the Crystal Heart being located, if no-one knew about it. And at worse, there is at least a possibility that the Crystal Ponies may have been deliberately repressing some very nasty things about his reign (I got that impression from them not even wanting to try to remember to start with.)

    So, I reckon if he was "corrupted" by the forces of darkness, it would have been the same way Sauron or Palpatine was - of his own free will, as a stepping stone to greater power.

  22. - Top - End - #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    I wonder how that works? I don't think Twilight has any mystical senses. Maybe she's so brilliant and has such a strong understanding of the basic principles of magic that any time she sees a new spell's effects she's able to deduce how it must work from first principles.
    I like this idea and this is how I think it works.


    Quote Originally Posted by HamHam View Post
    I hope we come back to the dark magic in the future and have an episode with evil Twilight.
    I really really don't. It's a horrible trope to use in pony.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkblade View Post
    I would say that we do have reason to believe otherwise because of what Celestia said though before casting the spell. Particularily "if hatred and fear take hold" before using the magic on the crystal.

    The blackening of the crystals is a direct result of a magical reflection of fear and hatred. Normal magic can be used to be generated into hope for crystal or nothing at all, but only dark magic has been shown to be able to fill it with hatred. If it is not only cast under negative emotions, it can be said to at the very least produce negative emotion in a magic form as a side effect of its type. Also Sombra's smoke form could be said to be dark magic given form. Cadance's shield was made out of love magic, and for it to repress his magic and completely refute him and his magical attempts on the land, there has to be something tied to his magic which is polar opposite of love, which is logically hate.

    Also the fact that Celestia could causally use it adds a bit more depth to her character. As shown with discord she is capable of feeling fear and hatred, and this cemented that fact for me.

    Twilight used dark magic twice, once with a large amount of effort on her part, which makes sense since Twilight isn't a hateful pony, and the second time when she was frustrated, which is a negative emotion, and it came extremely easily to her that time. It could be as a result of having casted it before but I am not ready to declare that experience is the only reason for it.

    Dark magic, throughout the entirety of the episode, has been tied to negative emotion.

    I am willing to say that it is something that can be used, but should not be used often, if it was without consequence it would be shown to unicorns in cases besides a alicorn doing a demonstration of what would happen if her prized student failed, or in the case of a completely evil being who could use it at will.

    Edit: Though I do believe that even if this is the case, Twilight can handle the knowledge of dark magic and would be responsible enough to limit its use to reasonable levels, if it does have a corrupting influence.
    You are making some serious assumptions throughout your argument. Still accepting (most) of your argument as correct the big thing here is we have no evidence that it is a corrupting influence.

    Afterall emotions don't tend to be a corrupting force either. If Dark Magic does require negative emotions then it makes sense for somepony like Sombra, who is filled with hate, to use it exclusively since he can power it so easily. But for someone like Twilight who is pretty much content and happy she'd find it very difficult to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairaven View Post
    I would like to point out that Twilight had to expend more effort to produce dark magic than Celestia did. Magic prodigy, that Twilight.

    Having reconciled myself with the weak writing of the premere. I have a new headcanon:


    Cadance is not Celestia's niece in a blood related way. She appeared roughly three decades ago (pony life standard time) as a baby alicorn along with the Crystal fragment we saw Celestia possessing. As the last of the line of the Crystal Kingdom, her appearence actually heralded the reappearence of the kingdom itself, hence guards were posted to observe and report upon the frozen north.
    It was her first time casting it. One of her early teleports literally burned her and Spike. She gets better at spells fast.


    Also I like that headcanon. It fits pretty well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Or, as I saw pointed out elsewhere (on the Nightmare Fuel TVtropes page for the show, actually), he's a possibily a worse (i.e. more evil) villain than the previous ones in his day, because he has no "excuse" like being a creature on inherent chaos or a species that feeds on love; he could have been just a unicorn who is more tyrannical and cruel as Ironhoof Celestia is preported to be; Lawful Evil to Discord's Chaotic Evil.

    Celestia, after all, didn't say "he was tragically cursed" or "he was corrupted", she said his "heart was as black as night." And she didn't make any mention of using the Elements of Harmony against him specifically (as she had on the other three villains), but the remit was to protect the Crystal Kingdom. Plus the fact he unequivocable was not banished, redeemed or even just petrified - but blown up - suggests that he must have not had much in the way of redeeming features.

    As was also pointed out, his plans for securing the Crystal Heart were fairly thorough, well-thought out and very nearly effective (anypony less than Twilight or the Princesses would have been styimed completely at the door, let alone the trap beyond it, which itself would have worked if Twilight had been alone.) He didn't waste time or effort; he didn't pound on the barrier, just sat and waited patiently for it to fail or fluctuate; he didn't monologue or gloat (even towards the end there), he just went straight onto the goal, and came very close to achieving it. And he not only unambiguously enslaved the populace (and was going to do it again), but had even put them under mind-control - at very best that was to further prevent the Crystal Heart being located, if no-one knew about it. And at worse, there is at least a possibility that the Crystal Ponies may have been deliberately repressing some very nasty things about his reign (I got that impression from them not even wanting to try to remember to start with.)

    So, I reckon if he was "corrupted" by the forces of darkness, it would have been the same way Sauron or Palpatine was - of his own free will, as a stepping stone to greater power.
    Exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kairaven View Post
    I would like to point out that Twilight had to expend more effort to produce dark magic than Celestia did. Magic prodigy, that Twilight.

    Having reconciled myself with the weak writing of the premere. I have a new headcanon:


    Cadance is not Celestia's niece in a blood related way. She appeared roughly three decades ago (pony life standard time) as a baby alicorn along with the Crystal fragment we saw Celestia possessing. As the last of the line of the Crystal Kingdom, her appearence actually heralded the reappearence of the kingdom itself, hence guards were posted to observe and report upon the frozen north.
    Or what if she might be (spoilered due to other comparisons used in Tolkien novels)
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    pony equivalent of Hobbit's Bard or Lotr's Aragorn, the last members of royalty thing and still be badass.

    I wonder if Pinkie's family are descended from Crystal Ponies too since they can grow rocks if you believe her cutie mark stories. I kinda feel it might be true since she's the only one who0 knew about parasprites, which might explain that her family grew rocks that cannot be eaten by parasprites.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I really really don't. It's a horrible trope to use in pony.
    Why?

    --------------------

    Okay, so I have some Crazy Speculation:

    In the past, all of Equestria, and maybe even beyond, was ruled by the Crystal Empire. Maybe as some kind of co-equal federation of principalities. Then Sombra tried to take it all over, but Celestia and Luna led a rebellion against him and threw him down, but as a result the Crystal Heart and the Empire were lost. This explains why Celestia is only a Princess, she rules a single part of what used to be a much larger Empire.

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    Hey guys? I've figured something out.

    Handsome Jack is King Sombra reborn in a different universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamHam View Post
    Why?

    --------------------

    Okay, so I have some Crazy Speculation:

    In the past, all of Equestria, and maybe even beyond, was ruled by the Crystal Empire. Maybe as some kind of co-equal federation of principalities. Then Sombra tried to take it all over, but Celestia and Luna led a rebellion against him and threw him down, but as a result the Crystal Heart and the Empire were lost. This explains why Celestia is only a Princess, she rules a single part of what used to be a much larger Empire.
    Probably because the series is generally upbeat, with the overriding message that understanding each other and working together overcomes all problems? Even Lesson Zero ends with the other ponies wishing they had listened to Twilight's fears more, even if they seemed silly to them.

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    Think about what the worst possible things that could happen to Twilight and Spike were: Rejection and separation. This is the opposite of the series' message, and is the ultimate punishment. Think of what happens to most villains; isolation as punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    I like the idea that maybe her next studies are going to be with Luna instead of Celestia, thus explaining the Mystery Book™. That could be done much like Lesson Zero changed the premise slightly (now they all write friendship reports), and not require an actual story arch. Maybe it'll mostly be that reports are sent to Luna from now on, and Luna shows up a little more and maybe takes a more active hoof in the studies than Celestia does. I'd be fine with that sort of thing.

    I share your suspicion about Faust and the direction, but I suppose it's just idle speculation and we'll have to just wait and see.
    But given the "lessons" that Luna would have, the show would take a completely different turn. Twilight wouldn't be learning about friendship anymore, she'd be learning about....well, I don't know. Whatever it is, it could change the entire feel of the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Probably because the series is generally upbeat, with the overriding message that understanding each other and working together overcomes all problems? Even Lesson Zero ends with the other ponies wishing they had listened to Twilight's fears more, even if they seemed silly to them.

    Spoiler
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    Think about what the worst possible things that could happen to Twilight and Spike were: Rejection and separation. This is the opposite of the series' message, and is the ultimate punishment. Think of what happens to most villains; isolation as punishment.
    Obviously she gets zapped and or talked back to good at the end. There's a lesson there about how to deal with negative emotions and not letting them control you, imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    But given the "lessons" that Luna would have, the show would take a completely different turn. Twilight wouldn't be learning about friendship anymore, she'd be learning about....well, I don't know. Whatever it is, it could change the entire feel of the show.
    They really can't keep doing the formula that strictly, I would say. There's not an infinite number of one paragraph long morals about friendship out there.

    Just like Lesson Zero expanded the focus to the other characters, I think it would make sense to broaden it further to other life lessons not necessarily directly related to friendship as a concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkblade View Post
    I would say that we do have reason to believe otherwise because of what Celestia said though before casting the spell. Particularily "if hatred and fear take hold" before using the magic on the crystal.

    The blackening of the crystals is a direct result of a magical reflection of fear and hatred. Normal magic can be used to be generated into hope for crystal or nothing at all, but only dark magic has been shown to be able to fill it with hatred. If it is not only cast under negative emotions, it can be said to at the very least produce negative emotion in a magic form as a side effect of its type. Also Sombra's smoke form could be said to be dark magic given form. Cadance's shield was made out of love magic, and for it to repress his magic and completely refute him and his magical attempts on the land, there has to be something tied to his magic which is polar opposite of love, which is logically hate.

    Also the fact that Celestia could causally use it adds a bit more depth to her character. As shown with discord she is capable of feeling fear and hatred, and this cemented that fact for me.

    Twilight used dark magic twice, once with a large amount of effort on her part, which makes sense since Twilight isn't a hateful pony, and the second time when she was frustrated, which is a negative emotion, and it came extremely easily to her that time. It could be as a result of having casted it before but I am not ready to declare that experience is the only reason for it.

    Dark magic, throughout the entirety of the episode, has been tied to negative emotion.

    I am willing to say that it is something that can be used, but should not be used often, if it was without consequence it would be shown to unicorns in cases besides a alicorn doing a demonstration of what would happen if her prized student failed, or in the case of a completely evil being who could use it at will.

    Edit: Though I do believe that even if this is the case, Twilight can handle the knowledge of dark magic and would be responsible enough to limit its use to reasonable levels, if it does have a corrupting influence.
    This is my favorite interpretation of dark magic thus far. And it does bring to mind an interesting thought. It seems like Celestia deliberately showed Twilight the dark magic spell, since it was necessary to find the Crystal Heart. Under this theory, that can be expanded to a lesson for Twilight: that dark emotions can be useful along with the bright ones, and in fact they're sometimes necessary.


    Mostly unrelated, I find it somewhat interesting/disappointing that people aren't more interested in the whole collective amnesia thing. My guess is that it was a result of Sombra's curse, and not only did it affect the citizens of the Empire, but the rest of Equestria as well. After all, that would explain why it wouldn't appear in any books, or more importantly why Celestia wouldn't remember much about it. After all, she remembered Luna perfectly well, and she had been gone for a similar time frame.
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  30. - Top - End - #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamHam View Post
    Why?

    --------------------

    Okay, so I have some Crazy Speculation:

    In the past, all of Equestria, and maybe even beyond, was ruled by the Crystal Empire. Maybe as some kind of co-equal federation of principalities. Then Sombra tried to take it all over, but Celestia and Luna led a rebellion against him and threw him down, but as a result the Crystal Heart and the Empire were lost. This explains why Celestia is only a Princess, she rules a single part of what used to be a much larger Empire.
    Because I can't see for it to be done in a way that really fits with the show's general feel.

    Either A) Twilight is tempted and falls to using Dark Magic for the 'power' which is kinda insulting because Twilight has never been concerned about power, not really. Plus she isn't that weak willed.

    B) Twilight rejects her friends and family in order to use Dark Magic for some reason. Which is just annoying because the most important things in her life are her bonds with Celestia, Shining Armor, and the rest of the Mane 6.


    I have seen some decent fanfics where Twilight getting corrupted was explored and each time it didn't feel like it could take place in the MLP universe. You know what I mean?
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