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  1. - Top - End - #1321
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    Default Re: My Little Pony LVI:S Has Left the Playground!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Heehee white text. Anyway, don't be such a baby about it, the paradox is supposed to only last a scene and 3 lethal damage would have taken a week to heal. In fact, I think it's clearly Turing's fault for not learning more life magic.
    Paradox damage is Resistant and can't be healed with magic!

    Also the resonance changes to the street are going to be permanent.

    And some guys got their cars trashed.
    To improve is to change
    To be perfect is to change often

  2. - Top - End - #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    Paradox damage is Resistant and can't be healed with magic!

    Also the resonance changes to the street are going to be permanent.

    And some guys got their cars trashed.
    Man, then it's a good thing I let that paradox happen instead of expecting to be healed based on forgetting a rule.

    Wait...
    Lawyer Pony Avatar by Dirtytabs, exalted as an Eclipse by Elemental, now with a fancy robe.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

  3. - Top - End - #1323
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    Tragedy fanfic idea (contains ep spoilers)
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    Breaks a bit with implied canon, but since when has that ever stopped anyone?

    A pony is suffering from some sort of mortal wound/disease and is brought by a loved one/family member to the mirror pool. They duplicate themselves, and then die. The copy lives for a time, but eventually it too ends up in the same situation, and is brought to the pool. The process repeats, with each copy living for a while but becoming shallower and shallower. The loved ones/family members watch as the pony they knew slowly fades away, but can't bring themselves to let go.
    Devoted artificer of the church of Scorching Ray.

  4. - Top - End - #1324
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    Default Re: My Little Pony LVI:S Has Left the Playground!

    NU EPISODE.
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    I really liked it. I was genuinely laughing throughout most of it. I found the set-up with Twilight was a tad annoying, but aside from that, I thought it was great. They handled a typical cloning episode very well.

    Is it just me, or does the scene where Twilight starts zapping all the Pinkie's away seem a tad... dark? o_o
    Dear Princess Celestia,


    You faithful student,
    Nameless

  5. - Top - End - #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by otakuryoga View Post
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    exactly...for example where i am one gets called Mamaw and one gets called Memaw
    some places ints Grammy and Granny
    Not really a spoiler, but not much pony either
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    Where I'm from we say (literally translated) MomMom and DadMom for our granny on mother's and father's side respectively. Likewise MomDad and DadDad for our grandfathers.

    And then what corresponds to Granny (or Grandmother/father) is used for out Great Grandparents instead. And in fact we have four words for that as well, (again literally) BestMom/Dad or OldMom/Dad. Which one you prefer is a matter of taste, for example my granny on my father's side would give my niece a very evil look if she used the latter.

    All of this always kinda made it tricky for me to deal with the English words, because when someone says Granny (or some equivalent word) I automatically think one step older, to what would actually be Great Granny. I always have to remind myself that you have way too few words in English, at least in this small area


    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Responding to spoilers with non-spoilery content.

    Pinkie has been seen to break the laws of physics and get responses from ponies as well. Just off the top of my head, we have Pinkie popping out of potted plants (Green Isn't Your Color), Pinkie outrunning the fastest flier in Equestria (Griffon the Brush-Off), Pinkie hijacking Twilight's teleport spell (Return of Harmony), PinkieEyes popping through brick walls and keyholes (A Friend in Deed), and probably several others.

    At this point, we'd either need to declare Pinkie simply possessing indescribable reality-altering powers, or just treat is as visual gags for the audience that were not meant to be taken seriously. I'm a bit more inclined to take the second option, as there is far too much silly in Equestria to take the whole setting at face value. (Besides, it's more fun that way. )
    None of your examples are acknowledged by the other ponies. They are at best reacted to, but we don't know how the other ponies actually experience it.

    Pinkie jumping out of potted plant: We don't hear anypony say "How did you fit in that potted plant, Pinkie?" We at most see them looking at her as she jumps out. What do they see (as opposed to what we see)? Maybe they see a silly pony hiding behind a potted plant, which would be silly and maybe they wonder how she got there without them noticing, but that's just Pinkie being stealthy (or them not paying attention) and doesn't defy any reality.

    Pinkie outrunning Dash: We never hear Dash say "how the buck can you outrun ME?!" or the like. From Dash's perspective, as opposed to ours, this is most likely what it looks like: No matter where she hides, Pinkie eventually finds her because Pinkie knows Ponyville like the back of her hoof and she probably plays hide and seek waaaaaay too much, so she knows all the hiding places waaaaay better than Dash.

    Pinkie hijacking teleport: We don't hear Twilight ask how it happened, and she doesn't even look at all surprised beyond the initial shock. Maybe Pinkie simply got in the way of Twilight's targeting, or targeting works on the principle of what you think of at the very moment the spell is cast, and Pinkie's sudden appearance made Twilight think of her for a split second ... or whatever other explanation. We don't know how magic works, in other words.

    PinkieEyes and Stuff: Again, nopony asks about it, and what they see is most likely completely mundane (if utterly silly because it's Pinkie).

    That's what I'm talking about.

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    The difference here being that Dash actually does ask, "Pinkie, how the hay did you do that!" right after seeing her defy reality by slowing her fall.

    I suppose we could imagine that Dash saw something slightly different than we did (maybe Pinkie didn't actually slow down, but just did a very professional dive with very little splash), but it's getting pretty hard to justify compared to previous stuff. Personally I'm going to simply ignore this one instance and continue on as before, because this was probably just slip by the writers and hopefully it won't happen again.
    Last edited by Deadly; 2012-11-18 at 06:21 AM.

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  6. - Top - End - #1326
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    [Episode 3.3]
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    Or just proof that Pinkie is a ham and knows the words for stereotypical panic.
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    Maybe, but that's not as funny.


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    Diego Havoc, one of the hoopier froods I've met, up there with DeLancie.

  7. - Top - End - #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    None of your examples are acknowledged by the other ponies. They are at best reacted to, but we don't know how the other ponies actually experience it.

    Pinkie jumping out of potted plant: We don't hear anypony say "How did you fit in that potted plant, Pinkie?" We at most see them looking at her as she jumps out. What do they see (as opposed to what we see)? Maybe they see a silly pony hiding behind a potted plant, which would be silly and maybe they wonder how she got there without them noticing, but that's just Pinkie being stealthy (or them not paying attention) and doesn't defy any reality.

    Pinkie outrunning Dash: We never hear Dash say "how the buck can you outrun ME?!" or the like. From Dash's perspective, as opposed to ours, this is most likely what it looks like: No matter where she hides, Pinkie eventually finds her because Pinkie knows Ponyville like the back of her hoof and she probably plays hide and seek waaaaaay too much, so she knows all the hiding places waaaaay better than Dash.

    Pinkie hijacking teleport: We don't hear Twilight ask how it happened, and she doesn't even look at all surprised beyond the initial shock. Maybe Pinkie simply got in the way of Twilight's targeting, or targeting works on the principle of what you think of at the very moment the spell is cast, and Pinkie's sudden appearance made Twilight think of her for a split second ... or whatever other explanation. We don't know how magic works, in other words.

    PinkieEyes and Stuff: Again, nopony asks about it, and what they see is most likely completely mundane (if utterly silly because it's Pinkie).

    That's what I'm talking about.

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    The difference here being that Dash actually does ask, "Pinkie, how the hay did you do that!" right after seeing her defy reality by slowing her fall.

    I suppose we could imagine that Dash saw something slightly different than we did (maybe Pinkie didn't actually slow down, but just did a very professional dive with very little splash), but it's getting pretty hard to justify compared to previous stuff. Personally I'm going to simply ignore this one instance and continue on as before, because this was probably just slip by the writers and hopefully it won't happen again.
    Those are all such flimsy justifications that it doesn't hold up for me. I mean sure use it for your own peace of mind if you must but basically you're rewriting what we actually see on the show for something that you just prefer personally (because I've never done that before, no siree. )

    Anyways my point is don't be surprised if it happens again. Because that's the way the show has decided to treat Pinkie, as having inexplicable powers that nopony truly understands, and they will continue to do so.

    Personally though I believe that Pinkie has inexplicable powers that are slightly exaggerated by the show. But most of it are true like the sponges or the slow dive.
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  8. - Top - End - #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Those are all such flimsy justifications that it doesn't hold up for me. I mean sure use it for your own peace of mind if you must but basically you're rewriting what we actually see on the show for something that you just prefer personally (because I've never done that before, no siree. )

    Anyways my point is don't be surprised if it happens again. Because that's the way the show has decided to treat Pinkie, as having inexplicable powers that nopony truly understands, and they will continue to do so.

    Personally though I believe that Pinkie has inexplicable powers that are slightly exaggerated by the show. But most of it are true like the sponges or the slow dive.
    I don't think they are flimsy at all. Until now, with the sole exception of Pinkie Sense, we have seen no pony give Pinkie's antics the kind of reaction you would expect if what we see is also what her friends see. Frankly if they saw what we see, Twilight should be a nervous wreck in a mental institution by now, because absolutely nothing makes sense. Instead we see her surprised at Pinkie's sudden appearances (which is not an uncommon experience in the real world either, ever had someone sneak up on you?) and generally thinking she's being silly and hyperactive. Nothing unusual at all in their reactions to her (again aside from Pinkie Sense). You can't even explain this kind of total nonchalance from her friends by suggesting they've simply given up.

    Sure, some of it might have a hint of truth to it, but for the most part, by far, I think what Pinkie does is vastly exaggerated for the sake of comedy, because it's a cartoon, and that's great, you know ... cartoon physics go well with cartoons. My problem is that if you wanted to use the setting seriously (whether in the show or otherwise), you have to discard the cartoon physics, and that's harder if the cartoon physics are suddenly complete canon and not just visual gags.

    And I get that feeling that the writers generally follow this line of reasoning too, even if they probably aren't hugely conscious about it. I think they have a sense that having the characters acknowledge Pinkie's cartoon physics is probably not a great idea in the long run, and this one just slipped and wasn't big enough for anyone to think about it much.

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  9. - Top - End - #1329
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    Default Re: My Little Pony LVI:S Has Left the Playground!

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Can I get an episode name? I'm lost for once.
    Chains of Command (part 2 specifically). Didn't think much of it, to be honest, it's one of the precious few TNG episodes I only ever watched once.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_druid_droid View Post
    And oh hai, Ponythread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    I'm seeing it as an "Identify Monster" check- with no offense directed at the Commander, that's just the shortest way to put it- on behalf of the fact that we're trying to identify a creature's anatomy. The DC for those is 10+Hit die, but since there's so many pieces of useful information one could identify of lichs, you have to build up on those uncapped "exceed by five" bonuses before all other pieces of useful information are exhausted and you find out where the lich's heart is located.

    So, yeah, if the question was "Where is a lich's heart located?" yes, that'd be an easy question to answer. But the question "Where is that lich's heart?" is a totally different question and much harder to answer.
    Two points a) you can't find information that doesn't exist (Spirit-Bound Liches don't have anything but bones left, usually...) and b) the real world is probably closer to, I dunno, Rolemaster than D&D, where if you are lucky, anyone could find something. (I mean, in RM you could do it untrained at level one, but given the somewhat sharp difficulty curve, you'd be having to roll scads of open-ended rolls. It may be theoretically possible for a Hobbit with bent knife to beat Morgoth (when he hasn't got the Iron Crown on), but it's impossible in practise.)



    Fifth Equestrian Civlisation
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    Dear Twilight Sparkle,

    That was a rather unpleasant affair. I think it was as well that Bleakbane had been making preparations, as the Songhai revealed their imperial ambitions over the next thousand years. They attacked and captured all three of the continent's city-states, the last one falling in 1250. We were both growing concerned; despite the fact they were remaining friendly on the face of it, they would not become proper friends, and we knew it was only a matter of time before they came for us.

    Fortunately, Bleakbane had been working hard preparing our army, and turning Canterlot into a training centre. It involved a lot of shouting and beating, but he finally had our troops ready for some measure of conflict, and he went down to lead the defense.

    In the meantime, Agent Bonbon went out to start gathering intelligence. This was a bit of a fruitless excercise, since the humans were already behind us in advancement, and, as Bleakbane observed, the poor darlings (he didn't call them that, of course!) didn't have much intelligence to begin with, as Agent Bonbon was able to move unnoticed among them by just wearing a big coat and a hat...

    Even I was losing patience with the Songhai at that point, as they kept sending their unpleasent proselytising minions to forcibly convet Manehatten, so I had to send some of my own clurgy to explain that friendship was better several times.

    Bleakbane assured me that the Songhai attacked first, and for once he was probably correct, though I suspect the Songhai used the our border deployments as an excuse. (Of course, Bleakbane did conduct the final negotiations...)

    Bleakbane managed the combat operations, while I continued to improve the rest of the country - I finally pursuaded the humans to increase the speed in which they claimed territory with traditional suggestions like "remember to take more water" and "take maps so you don't get lost before you leave town" and "learning left from right is helpful."

    The war was quite an nasty affair, from what Bleakbane tells me. For all his violent ways, when it comes down to the crunch, he hates casualties, but they way the war had to be fought meant there was much blood shed. He liberated Hanoi (who began suppling us with new troops), and the war came to a halt, as we needed to replace our-higher-than expected losses, and build another trebuchet or two. It also gave us time to replace swords with gunpowder weapons; teaching them the right way to hold and fire the guns, nearly drove Bleakbane mad. (His mood was not improved when Hanoi sent some - albeit good - musketeers from Prance...!)

    We pressed on shortly thereafter, liberating Yerevan and then marching on the Songhai capital, Gao. It was a long and bitter battle, and taking the capital itself required a lot of effort - at one point Bleakbane had ringing it on one side with troops, just out of bow shot, until they had recovered enough from . He was a little annoyed that the trebuckets could not hit the city from the ground, and so had to be positioned ready to roll up onto the nearby hills, something which he said was like fighting tanks "hull-down", whatever that means. But he persevered, and we took Gao with only minimal losses. The Songhai are now down to two cities and a captured city-state.

    They took their chastisement badly, and loudly denouced us. I am planning on returning the favour soon. But first, as we approach the 19th century, and are finally ready to start building weather factories, we are going to wait and build Equestria a bit more; perhaps add railroads, and secure Gao before we move further.

    I am glad you were not here to see all this, my faithful student, and I hope the real Equestria is doing rather better!

    Your loving mentor,

    Princess Celestia.


    Yeah, I don't like the one-unit-per-hex at all. Not only does it make the unit pathing fracktarded (several occasions I had to reload because I clicked for a unit to go to that square and they went of round the houses or right in front of the enemy instead of where I wanted), and it makes it really easy for the enemy to concentrate on one unit (especially if they have multiple ranegd attackers like the cities do). While the advantages of blocking the enemy is one thing, I find I much prefer the StackO'Doom from Civ IV, because it was so much easier to preserve your elite units.

    You attacked with them, and sent a defense unit (e.g. Mech Inf in the late game) to go and stand with them to screen them from the counter attack. On the other hand, massive stacks were a huge pain. I think, to be honest, the solution would be to allow a stack of 2-3 or maybe up to five units and no more (both for civilian and military units), maybe three, and it would have been an excellent compromise with the advantages of both. (Actually, unlimited stacking for civilian units would be better, the one-per-hex doesn't come up very foten for them but it's a real pain when it does, especially if you want to preserve a few Great People or something.)

  10. - Top - End - #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    stuff
    Alright, fair enough. I don't want you thinking that I was singling you out or anything; I just didn't find the point distracting (or even really out of sorts) and so I was curious as to why it would bother someone.

    Thanks for clearing things up.
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    Ladies & Gentlemen, behold the Dancing G3 Pink One!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Here's a comic presenting an alternative for how the season 3 premier could have gone. I'd support it.
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    +1 Support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eakin View Post
    Don't forget that Rarity...
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    Showed up in the very first scene dressed to the nines in a brand new ensemble, and never invited Pinkie to come do anything the way the others did. I guess she was... otherwise engaged.
    YEAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcrafter View Post
    Tragedy fanfic idea (contains ep spoilers)
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    Breaks a bit with implied canon, but since when has that ever stopped anyone?

    A pony is suffering from some sort of mortal wound/disease and is brought by a loved one/family member to the mirror pool. They duplicate themselves, and then die. The copy lives for a time, but eventually it too ends up in the same situation, and is brought to the pool. The process repeats, with each copy living for a while but becoming shallower and shallower. The loved ones/family members watch as the pony they knew slowly fades away, but can't bring themselves to let go.

    NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Sure, some of it might have a hint of truth to it, but for the most part, by far, I think what Pinkie does is vastly exaggerated for the sake of comedy, because it's a cartoon, and that's great, you know ... cartoon physics go well with cartoons. My problem is that if you wanted to use the setting seriously (whether in the show or otherwise), you have to discard the cartoon physics, and that's harder if the cartoon physics are suddenly complete canon and not just visual gags.
    Eh, yeah, if Pinkie could just teleport she wouldn't need to shave 20 minutes running between locations, wouldn't be exhausted (several times, to boot) walking between places, now would need any help tending to babies.

    Nah, I'd say her party talent just gives her extra minor prestidigitator powers, just like Fluttershy apparently has more command over butterflies than other animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    In AJ's defense on the Zap Apple Jam episode, this might be less business savvy and more just the mirror of real world farmers (most aren't rolling in money) who sell their product locally to distributors and then distributers ship it around for their own profit.
    Hmm, I find it fascinating how farmer situation varies from country to country...

    The Apples seem to only sell Zap Apple Jam locally since they don't have the horsepower/equipment to ship things far. Meanwhile Stinking Rich is analogous of Big Box Marts and likely sells a ton of all kinds of products all across Equestria based on the tail end of his Family Appreciation Day speech.
    Eh, even if he expanded his business, which is very probable, we see his family start by selling Apples produce exclusively, and somehow turn it into big company despite all disadvantages.

    Btw, when Major wants money to repair town hall, she doesn't go asking towns magnates, she asks AJ. More proof Equestria is still feudal to the core?

    As for the cider episode... yeah, no argument here. AJ's stubbornness for traditional cider making was causing a supply/demand frustration. Hopefully now it'll be better with volunteer work pitching in for more production. I'm sure lots of people wouldn't mind working for some of that cider. :q Mmm...
    Well, yes, but it still doesn't change the fact AJ with any business savvy would see her position is doomed in the long run and would cut good deal with FF Brothers while she is still the one holding the most cards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Btw, when Major wants money to repair town hall, she doesn't go asking towns magnates, she asks AJ. More proof Equestria is still feudal to the core?
    Maybe, unless AJ voluntarily entered the rodeo to make the money to repair the town hall?



    Well, yes, but it still doesn't change the fact AJ with any business savvy would see her position is doomed in the long run and would cut good deal with FF Brothers while she is still the one holding the most cards.
    I don't think her business was doomed at the start. There's always a demand for Apple Family Cider and until the episode there was apparently no mass production of cider known in the area. So the business was pretty safe with no competition. Even though not all ponies could get their hands on the cider, there wasn't an alternative yet.

    However, now that we know mass production is possible with this episode, AJ's business is in trouble unless she updates her business model. The episode shows she can get a huge volume of cider done with an hour's time and five friends. So from then on, yes she has to keep the production up or lose business, but it seems that cutting a deal with the brothers isn't necessary as long as she increases her work force.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Maybe, unless AJ voluntarily entered the rodeo to make the money to repair the town hall?





    I don't think her business was doomed at the start. There's always a demand for Apple Family Cider and until the episode there was apparently no mass production of cider known in the area. So the business was pretty safe with no competition. Even though not all ponies could get their hands on the cider, there wasn't an alternative yet.

    However, now that we know mass production is possible with this episode, AJ's business is in trouble unless she updates her business model. The episode shows she can get a huge volume of cider done with an hour's time and five friends. So from then on, yes she has to keep the production up or lose business, but it seems that cutting a deal with the brothers isn't necessary as long as she increases her work force.
    her real mistake was pricing. if you have excess demand, particularly THAT MUCH, you raise the price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thubby View Post
    her real mistake was pricing. if you have excess demand, particularly THAT MUCH, you raise the price.
    Sounds like we need to teach children about Economic Lessons, like deconstructing the idea of more gold= Prosperity in fairy tales or inflation episode. I mean Duck Tales managed to teach young viewers about it, such as Tralala and coin duplication episode.
    Edit:I mean what if the Apple Family properly managed the volunteers by ability, like pegasus's flying ability or Unicorn's magic.
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    Also giving away her apples for the competition. It's one thing to let them borrow a couple to make a sample, but a better ending would have been AJ losing the competition then presenting the brothers with a bill for all the apples they used in the competition and the damage to her orchard, thus bankrupting them when nopony wants the crappy cider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    So....Star Trek Ponies?
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    this picture is sooo wrong
    Fluttershy obviously should be Troi
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Who's Pinkie in this scenario? Beverly? Is that why she's not on the bridge?
    or Beverly..Fluttershy would be a good Beverly as well

    and Pinkie is obviously ~shudder~ Wesley.... able to pull a solution to any problem outta nowhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Eakin View Post
    Be trigger-happy Twilight in this flash game!
    thats a fun little game
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
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    What you're describing is every parent in superstitious middle ages, mate. Of course you tell your kids stories of wonder and magic. Although we have no reason to think she navigated the everfree, so much as collected stories. I have a friend who could tell you landmarks from Germany's black forest, but who has never left his state.
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    Difference here being, the information is not widely known so there's no suggestion that this is standard for Ponies. Also, it's clearly not handed down for generations without end, in as much as the information was so spot on that Pinkie was able to go straight there and use the mirror on the first try. That says to me that Nanna Pinkie had been there herself.



    As for AJ and the Rodeo; I like to think AJ just happened to be going to the rodeo and the Mayor kinda just ambushed her with the added responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otakuryoga View Post
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    how convenient finding that secret compartment now..couldn't it be seen any of the 20x previously that every book was knocked off the shelves?
    Yeah...

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    they found a use for Tom! so much for the theory Twilight cut his heart out 8)
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    That was clearly a corpse-sans-heart that Twilight now found convenient way of disposing of


    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
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    I have to say, I love this episode. Not only does it highlight all of the antics of Pinkie Pie at her finest, but it's one where Pinkie Pie actually learns something.

    Throughout the series, Pinkie has been more of a narrative force than an actual character for me. This is due to a simple fact; she's almost never wrong. To me, a character needs to have flaws, to make mistakes, to grow. The only time we've ever seen Pinkie be flat out wrong is Party of One and now, this episode.
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    I don't know, I think she learned much more tending to babies, IMHO. Not so much in this episode.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtytabs View Post
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    I'm wondering how Pinkie whistled using a hoof. Somehow it's less weird that she can slow her dive than whistle without fingers.
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    Um, lips?

    While even soft pony hoof can't bend that much, you can form the opening with lips, too, it's just only a bit more difficult.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eakin View Post
    Don't forget that Rarity...
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    Showed up in the very first scene dressed to the nines in a brand new ensemble, and never invited Pinkie to come do anything the way the others did. I guess she was... otherwise engaged.
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    If they started to canonify relationships from ending of the Wedding, huh, that's a shot against IMHO two hands down most annoying ships in fandom


    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Pony Destiny Generator:
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    Wait, isn't it what Pinkie does anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Jam is a deal Applejack doesn't have control over, it was already established by Granny
    Um, the point was just that when both sides try to sell half of product X, the side that gets to pick the half for itself first should be the one with much worse sale results, if it is any good as sales, that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICN View Post
    Episode 3.3
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    No jokes about knowing where the duplicate background ponies came from? Huh. On a side note, if a changling impersonating another pony goes into the pool, what comes out?
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    Two disguised changelings, maybe one of them being just disguising badly?


    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Maybe, unless AJ voluntarily entered the rodeo to make the money to repair the town hall?
    That pleading didn't seemed to make it very voluntarily

    However, now that we know mass production is possible with this episode, AJ's business is in trouble unless she updates her business model. The episode shows she can get a huge volume of cider done with an hour's time and five friends. So from then on, yes she has to keep the production up or lose business, but it seems that cutting a deal with the brothers isn't necessary as long as she increases her work force.
    Yeah, this. All it takes is better machine and AJ can say goodbye to her business. She barely competed with CC6K with five unpaid friends, how will she fare in CC 8000 can outcompete twenty ponies? What if they ask for pay she can't afford?

    I don't think there was any time in history more farm labour ever beat automation, the only winning move for AJ is buy one machine herself, or cut the non-competitive branch of farm off.
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    Dan Vs... Twilight? (Based on Episode's 3.3 premise):
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    Quote Originally Posted by otakuryoga View Post
    this picture is sooo wrong
    Fluttershy obviously should be Troi
    or Beverly..Fluttershy would be a good Beverly as well
    and Pinkie is obviously ~shudder~ Wesley.... able to pull a solution to any problem outta nowhere
    I think it works better in Original gen:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Yeah, this. All it takes is better machine and AJ can say goodbye to her business. She barely competed with CC6K with five unpaid friends, how will she fare in CC 8000 can outcompete twenty ponies? What if they ask for pay she can't afford?
    True, once a better machine comes out then AJ has to step up her game again. However, I think AJ can and will learn to mechanize her farm when the time for that comes.

    If anything, Applebloom's talent with tools might play a role in that as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Nears it's end? We've got five pages.
    So, sometime today, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    No comment. But here's a pony with a turtle on its head instead.
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    I'll just save that in the Flutterdash section.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICN View Post
    Oh I'm sure you could pull it off if you wanted to. It's just like the parody, except the tongue goes into someone else's cheek.
    You sir, may be awarded one win for this comment.

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    How utterly terrifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I don't think her business was doomed at the start. There's always a demand for Apple Family Cider and until the episode there was apparently no mass production of cider known in the area. So the business was pretty safe with no competition. Even though not all ponies could get their hands on the cider, there wasn't an alternative yet.

    However, now that we know mass production is possible with this episode, AJ's business is in trouble unless she updates her business model. The episode shows she can get a huge volume of cider done with an hour's time and five friends. So from then on, yes she has to keep the production up or lose business, but it seems that cutting a deal with the brothers isn't necessary as long as she increases her work force.
    This works until her workers realize that they're getting shafted, and start asking for a paycheck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
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    If they started to canonify relationships from ending of the Wedding, huh, that's a shot against IMHO two hands down most annoying ships in fandom
    Let's see, looking at the photos in the wedding ending, that means your two most annoying ships are Rarispike, and Dash-Everyone else. I can respect that. (Flutterdash is still my preferred pairing over SoarinDash.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie
    Yeah, this. All it takes is better machine and AJ can say goodbye to her business. She barely competed with CC6K with five unpaid friends, how will she fare in CC 8000 can outcompete twenty ponies? What if they ask for pay she can't afford?

    I don't think there was any time in history more farm labour ever beat automation, the only winning move for AJ is buy one machine herself, or cut the non-competitive branch of farm off.
    You're missing one solution from that list. As the extended Apple family seems to be Equestria's primary supplier of apples, they could simply refuse to sell apples to competitors. A fancy cider-makin' machine doesn't do much good without apples to feed it.

    If Flim and Flam had any modicum of business sense, then the Ponyville Apples would just be out of luck. They won; the farm is theirs; the sensible thing is just to wait out the year, since they now own the most fertile farm in the area. Cider season will come around again, and as the sole providers of Ponyville cider, then the town will have to either let go or pony up.

    Of course, if the Apples had been smarter about it, they would not have entered into a bet where they're the only ones who stand to lose anything. Perhaps this could be an alternative? If Flim and Flam lose, they give the SSCS6K to the Apples. If the Apples lose, then they lose the farm. Then, once the deal is set, the Apples say, "Get your own apples." Boom; scam destroyed.
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    Technically, the way the deal was presented, there was no agreement about losing the farm. The Ponyville cider license, sure, but nothing about the farm. Both parties seem to have talked themselves into that assumption by the day of, but plumed if I know how.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    I don't think they are flimsy at all. Until now, with the sole exception of Pinkie Sense, we have seen no pony give Pinkie's antics the kind of reaction you would expect if what we see is also what her friends see. Frankly if they saw what we see, Twilight should be a nervous wreck in a mental institution by now, because absolutely nothing makes sense. Instead we see her surprised at Pinkie's sudden appearances (which is not an uncommon experience in the real world either, ever had someone sneak up on you?) and generally thinking she's being silly and hyperactive. Nothing unusual at all in their reactions to her (again aside from Pinkie Sense). You can't even explain this kind of total nonchalance from her friends by suggesting they've simply given up.

    Sure, some of it might have a hint of truth to it, but for the most part, by far, I think what Pinkie does is vastly exaggerated for the sake of comedy, because it's a cartoon, and that's great, you know ... cartoon physics go well with cartoons. My problem is that if you wanted to use the setting seriously (whether in the show or otherwise), you have to discard the cartoon physics, and that's harder if the cartoon physics are suddenly complete canon and not just visual gags.

    And I get that feeling that the writers generally follow this line of reasoning too, even if they probably aren't hugely conscious about it. I think they have a sense that having the characters acknowledge Pinkie's cartoon physics is probably not a great idea in the long run, and this one just slipped and wasn't big enough for anyone to think about it much.

    We saw an entire episode of Twilight trying to figure out Pinkie Pie and giving up on it after a lot of pain. I'm pretty sure everypony does their best to ignore Pinkie Pie's odd breaks of physics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Um, the point was just that when both sides try to sell half of product X, the side that gets to pick the half for itself first should be the one with much worse sale results, if it is any good as sales, that is.


    Yeah, this. All it takes is better machine and AJ can say goodbye to her business. She barely competed with CC6K with five unpaid friends, how will she fare in CC 8000 can outcompete twenty ponies? What if they ask for pay she can't afford?

    I don't think there was any time in history more farm labour ever beat automation, the only winning move for AJ is buy one machine herself, or cut the non-competitive branch of farm off.
    Really? I'll fully admit that I have no real knowledge of economics but why would choosing first give you worse sale results? Also doesn't Filthy Rich get his choice of product?
    The main thing is that Applejack has no control over the jam deal, and thus she can't be judged on how bad of a deal it actually is. Not while Granny is in control who is a bad business pony.

    Something everyone forgets is that Flim and Flams machine is unique to them. They need to build it, and it takes a unicorn either with a similar special talent or enough of a mastery over magic (like Twilight, and perhaps Trixie) to power it. It's not like human machines which anyone can really use and can be mass produced. Your point remains valid and I honestly think Applejack would be open to using a machine if the deal hadn't been so horrible for them. (They would have lost too much money by accepting Flim and Flam's initial deal therefore sticking to the old ways is still better. If Flim and Flam gave a better deal then I think the Apple Family would have accepted it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    You're missing one solution from that list. As the extended Apple family seems to be Equestria's primary supplier of apples, they could simply refuse to sell apples to competitors. A fancy cider-makin' machine doesn't do much good without apples to feed it.

    If Flim and Flam had any modicum of business sense, then the Ponyville Apples would just be out of luck. They won; the farm is theirs; the sensible thing is just to wait out the year, since they now own the most fertile farm in the area. Cider season will come around again, and as the sole providers of Ponyville cider, then the town will have to either let go or pony up.

    Of course, if the Apples had been smarter about it, they would not have entered into a bet where they're the only ones who stand to lose anything. Perhaps this could be an alternative? If Flim and Flam lose, they give the SSCS6K to the Apples. If the Apples lose, then they lose the farm. Then, once the deal is set, the Apples say, "Get your own apples." Boom; scam destroyed.
    They didn't win Sweet Apple Acres they won the right to sell cider. So they couldn't just wait. I imagine they were depending on the money from the cider sale to buy Sweet Apple Acres. I suppose they could have tried to stop the Apples from selling cider but who would enforce that in Ponyville?

    Now this is completely true. Granny is not very good on the whole business side of things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    They didn't win Sweet Apple Acres they won the right to sell cider. So they couldn't just wait. I imagine they were depending on the money from the cider sale to buy Sweet Apple Acres. I suppose they could have tried to stop the Apples from selling cider but who would enforce that in Ponyville?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kd7sov View Post
    Technically, the way the deal was presented, there was no agreement about losing the farm. The Ponyville cider license, sure, but nothing about the farm. Both parties seem to have talked themselves into that assumption by the day of, but plumed if I know how.
    I know that there was no explicit agreement that the farm was part of the bet. However, the way everypony acted when Flim and Flam won displays an implicit agreement. The very fact that Twilight doesn't point out that the farm wasn't part of the deal shows that something like that must have been part of the deal, even if it happened off-screen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Two points a) you can't find information that doesn't exist (Spirit-Bound Liches don't have anything but bones left, usually...)
    In order for the question to to be answered, you have to have a heart. So, direct that to the guy who asked the question, not to me. Maybe when you were "asleep," someone hopped in and slapped a sticky note in your thigh that reads "AOTRS' HART" on it?

    That said, though, there's no actual requirement that the useful information has to exist. You just know that piece of useful information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    and b) the real world is probably closer to, I dunno, Rolemaster than D&D, where if you are lucky, anyone could find something.
    Oh, so you're volunteering to purchase and mail me the Rolemaster books so I can understand that game better? Oh, you're so magnanimous!
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    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    Oh, so you're volunteering to purchase and mail me the Rolemaster books so I can understand that game better? Oh, you're so magnanimous!
    Here is where I can be really mean and say that there is a new version of Rolemaster out for beta testing, free on I.C.E's website...

    Besides, RM isn't hard to understand; it's roll dice, add skill bonus and modifiers just like D&D. The only major difference is you look the result up on a table instead of against a number (and even then only if you're the DM). I'll grant you that buying skills is slightly more complicated than in D&D (but really only slightly); but actually, in terms of game mechanics, it's no different than D&D, just with numbers and dice about five times bigger.

    But, deadly serious for once, the fact it's adding tens and twenty and not single/low double digits genunily scares people off. 16+15 on D20 is fine, but ask them to add 52+35 and suddenly, "it's too complicated" and they go all to pieces. No lie. Humans is strange.

    (The RM round sequence is rather variable, I also say, since RM tried a large number of options, from the clunkier early versions, to the median one we use, the the ridiculousness of the second-by-second tactical system; so running RM as a DM does require a more solid grasp of the rules, but not so much as a player.)



    In practise, I have as many Rolemaster books as D&D 3.x books, and while I have ALL of RM 3rd (plus a goodly chunk of some of the others), I don't have all of 3.x. What does make Rolemaster complicated is the sheer varity of optional rules (often in RM, an optional rule will come with two or three different options on using it). Unlike 3.x, which you can play blanket using everything, Rolemaster you can't because a lot of it is options that are "instead" rather than "in addition" (e.g. the several different round sequences, the alternate skill systems, the alternate combat systems...)

    (I found this selective mindset to be very useful and carried through to 3.x. As a DM, I don't allow books, I allow certain content from the books - and not even core is immune to having stuff not available.)



    Besides, you really wouldn't want me to explain RM, given that the system I use is a hybrid of three editions of Rolemaster and two of Spacemaster, the Likes of Which Man (And Pony) Are Not Meant To Know... ('Cos if you thought my modifications to 3.x to 3.Aotrs were extensive, remember I've been playing Rolemaster for a decade longer...!)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-11-18 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    If anything, Applebloom's talent with tools might play a role in that as well.
    Assuming she can outperform two unicorns with apple-related talents, that is

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    Let's see, looking at the photos in the wedding ending, that means your two most annoying ships are Rarispike, and Dash-Everyone else. I can respect that. (Flutterdash is still my preferred pairing over SoarinDash.)
    Not exactly, but you correctly guess one pony I have beef with

    You're missing one solution from that list. As the extended Apple family seems to be Equestria's primary supplier of apples, they could simply refuse to sell apples to competitors. A fancy cider-makin' machine doesn't do much good without apples to feed it.
    That requires Apples having monopoly on apple sales, which is not a given. Plus, also requires them to screen all their bulk buyers, like Rich family, to make sure they are not selling to competition. This basically requires huge expense and overhead as Apples start shifting only small sales, plus spoilage losses from slow sales on top of that. Finally, Flim and Flam are unicorns, what if they figure out spell letting them turn, say, carrots into apples, undercutting monopoly completely?

    If Flim and Flam had any modicum of business sense, then the Ponyville Apples would just be out of luck. They won; the farm is theirs; the sensible thing is just to wait out the year, since they now own the most fertile farm in the area. Cider season will come around again, and as the sole providers of Ponyville cider, then the town will have to either let go or pony up.
    On flip side, had AJ simply negotiated good deal in the beginning saying 'I have all the apples, deal with it' there would be no damage to farm, everyone would have walked from the table richer, and they wouldn't antagonize ponies that almost kicked them out of business with a prototype.

    Then, once the deal is set, the Apples say, "Get your own apples." Boom; scam destroyed.
    Since when working machine is a scam?

    This also might backfire in FF getting apples from somewhere and never agreeing to change bet to allow AJ use friends as they would be understandably pissed.

    Technically, the way the deal was presented, there was no agreement about losing the farm. The Ponyville cider license, sure, but nothing about the farm. Both parties seem to have talked themselves into that assumption by the day of, but plumed if I know how.
    Which is why I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    and through some weird turn of events comes hoof's breadth to losing her business.
    But you can say she simply anticipated going out of business without sale profits and the only ones with spare cash on hand to buy being FF brothers?

    I'll fully admit that I have no real knowledge of economics but why would choosing first give you worse sale results?
    No, I meant AJ picking first means she gets better half, and ponies go to her first, not to Riches. She still manages to lose this advantage somehow, no?

    Something everyone forgets is that Flim and Flams machine is unique to them. They need to build it, and it takes a unicorn either with a similar special talent or enough of a mastery over magic (like Twilight, and perhaps Trixie) to power it.
    The prototype, yes, but seeing Equestria has large magical industry, apparently, I bet someone would have figured how to make it go on magic of regular unicorns, like all of their other big equipment goes. Might be less efficient, but workable.

    And yes, FF indeed proposed bad deal, but anyone with business sense tries to haggle it down to compromise for both sides before saying outright 'no', IMHO.
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  29. - Top - End - #1349
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: My Little Pony LVI:S Has Left the Playground!

    The Cider episode is bad because of it's complete lack of understanding of economics and how flagrant it is in that ignorance. I could almost forgive it because of it's great song and so forth but then AJ has that smug bit about already knowing the lesson at the end and I just want to punch her in the face.

    They should have just driven a harder bargain with the Flim Flam brothers to begin with, and made bank. Instead...

  30. - Top - End - #1350
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    Default Re: My Little Pony LVI:S Has Left the Playground!

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Alright, fair enough. I don't want you thinking that I was singling you out or anything; I just didn't find the point distracting (or even really out of sorts) and so I was curious as to why it would bother someone.

    Thanks for clearing things up.
    No problem. That's what I'm here for, clearing up what I'm trying to say

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Eh, yeah, if Pinkie could just teleport she wouldn't need to shave 20 minutes running between locations, wouldn't be exhausted (several times, to boot) walking between places, now would need any help tending to babies.

    Nah, I'd say her party talent just gives her extra minor prestidigitator powers, just like Fluttershy apparently has more command over butterflies than other animals.
    Indeed, there's that too. If Pinkie could do all these things, like really, then you could certainly wave goodbye to every obstacle, plot or story because "Pinkie breaks all rules and fixes everything" becomes the answer to every problem, even the very small ones. Even the show itself can't make sense if Pinkie's reality-breaking is more than just visual gags that you can ignore or include as the script demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eakin View Post
    EDIT:
    Be trigger-happy Twilight in this flash game!
    Damn, another game to tempt me into getting nothing done

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    We saw an entire episode of Twilight trying to figure out Pinkie Pie and giving up on it after a lot of pain. I'm pretty sure everypony does their best to ignore Pinkie Pie's odd breaks of physics.
    An episode dealing specifically with Pinkie Sense, which I have very specifically and clearly been excluding from this entire discussion. Yes, Pinkie Sense is a real thing in the show (and I have my own explanation for it that I've mentioned before), but we're not talking about Pinkie Sense.

    You will also notice that this was episode 15, at least a little while after Twilight arrived in Ponyville. At no point before then, even in the S1 two-parter, do we see Twilight fret about trying to understand Pinkie. Only Pinkie Sense has been driving Twilight crazy, nothing else.

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