The Kingdom Of Baron In . . . .Japan

[ArlEammon]

Instead of replacing Britain, as I have with other Kingdom Of Baron threads, Baron will be replacing Japan, as of 900 AD. Baron will have not 10,000, but 500,000 citizens. Ramp up the numbers of soldiers and military personal to equal something rational based on it's 500,000 citizens, and give an explanation if some kind of scenario for Baron some how dominating Asia is possible within 1,000 years.

Edit-
Baron is a Fantasy Kingdom known for it's Airforce, the only Airforce in it's world. It possesses both the elementally inclined "Black Mages" as well as the "White Mages", Dragoons, troops specializing in fighting by leaping far into the air and landing with their spears in the enemy, and Dark Knights, Dark Knights can use magical forces of Darkness to attack their enemies with. Baron possesses monsters as troops as well, and a "Royal Gaurd" that typically possess the ability to shrink their enemy into Thumbelina size for limited periods of time.

Baron, at this time, is ruled by Golbez, with an army of Monsters, and his Four Elemental Fiends.

[The Glyphstone]

1) You need to at least give an overview of the Kingdom's abilities, technology, etc. - not everyone knows what Baron is, what game it's from, or what it can do. Else you're going to get people saying his clank armies, airships, and tamed Sparks will rampage over everything.

2) You really like Baron, don't you?

[ArlEammon]

1) You need to at least give an overview of the Kingdom's abilities, technology, etc. - not everyone knows what Baron is, what game it's from, or what it can do. Else you're going to get people saying his clank armies, airships, and tamed Sparks will rampage over everything.

2) You really like Baron, don't you?

Yep. I like Baron. I like Baron so much that my capacity to think of anything else is Barren.

[KillianHawkeye]

Against magic and reliable flight, there really isn't much a real world medieval military force can do besides lose. I mean, Baron's airforce pretty much devastated all the other magic fantasy kingdoms in the game using just the flight advantage. I really don't understand the point of comparing history to Final Fantasy.

[ArlEammon]

Against magic and reliable flight, there really isn't much a real world medieval military force can do besides lose. I mean, Baron's airforce pretty much devastated all the other magic fantasy kingdoms in the game using just the flight advantage. I really don't understand the point of comparing history to Final Fantasy.

Canon population of Baron = 5,000 (4500 really).
Canon population of Far East Asia circu 1,000 AD? ALOT.
Baron already lost against Europe purely because of number disparity in the other threads.

[Tavar]

They didn't lose against them: they just didn't take over the entire land area due to population limits. They'd certainly be the top dog in the area.

[KillianHawkeye]

Canon population of Baron = 5,000 (4500 really).
Canon population of Far East Asia circu 1,000 AD? ALOT.
Baron already lost against Europe purely because of number disparity in the other threads.

They have mind control. Their lack of population isn't an issue. Plus the ability to destroy entire cities through aerial bombardment.

Also, the OP upped it to 500,000; probably to solve this exact issue.

[Eakin]

It's hard to extrapolate how many white mages, dark knights, and dragoons Baron has just by extrapolating from Rosa, Cecil, and Kain. If magic works at all the rest of the world is going to figure out how to use it eventually. Baron's air force is their biggest trump card and frequently referred to in-game as such.

When you say they're ruled by Golbez, does that mean he gets to put himself into play on the battlefield? The Elemental Fiends? Or bring all the crazy Lunarian tech up to and including a mountain-sized robot into play? Because that's going to swing the outcome, but then this is really Lunaria vs. the world and Baron is just a small player.

Golbez mind controlled one guy. That's not a solution to a small population

Even pumping up their numbers, I'd say their reach exceeds their grasp and they can dish out a ton of destruction but not actually hold much territory. By the time they're in a position to go empire-building their neighbors have picked up some of their tricks and figured out how to counter other ones and the fights aren't nearly so one-sided any more.

[Story Time]

Which version of Golbez? This will determine whether any portions of Asia Major survive.

Also, what's his goal? Raze an alternate reality for fun / resources / Mysterious Force?

[ArlEammon]

Which version of Golbez? This will determine whether any portions of Asia Major survive.

Also, what's his goal? Raze an alternate reality for fun / resources / Mysterious Force?

He's in a non-magical world where he has his powers. Basically he's stranded and he's a "good guy" with all his magic.

[erikun]

As with your other threads, the problem is not in winning battles, but in winning the war. Baron's airships will dominate any fight they are in, because their flight and armor makes them immune to attack, and their cannons have been shown to reduce cities and castles to rubble. There is just no way for the world, at that stage in history, to fight back.

Adding in Golbez, his summons, and the Four Elemental Fiends makes very little difference. That's five people, who at best represent five additional "airships" when considering what they can accomplish offensively. I am sure that any one could destroy a city by themselves easily, but your average airship can as well and the airships can move faster. You could transport them on airships, but then that just makes things somewhat redundant.

Golbez had no control over the monsters roaming around the world in FFIV. They were due to the corrupting influence of Zemus and/or the disturbance of the crystals, not Golbez sending them out to raid anything.

Final Fantasy "classes" being around in the Baron empire improves the standard of living there but doesn't really add much to the offensive capabilities of the country as a whole. Saying that 1:1000 of the soldier population can cast a Fire spell several times a day probably won't amount to that much, in comparison to catapults or mounted calvary. On the other hand, white mages and engineers will greatly increase the appeal to living in Baron, meaning the country would likely be filled with refugees and willing ally countries.

Pumping the population up from 5000 to half a million would likely have the biggest effect, because more people will definitely allow Baron to hold more ground. (Please note that allying and/or ruling existing people will still be more effective than kicking the current inhabitants out.) Still, we are talking about a country with 500,000 people trying to take over a continent of probably 100,000,000 people at that time (just a rough guess). That is going to take a LOT of subjugation or some very tricky ruling to manage, and if they get the people upset enough (and evil-Golbez certainly will) then we'd probably see a Three Kingdoms scenario again with the death of all the Baron-rulers.

He's in a non-magical world where he has his powers. Basically he's stranded and he's a "good guy" with all his magic.

Why would the "good" Golbez be hanging around with the Elemental Fiends?

[ArlEammon]

Why would the "good" Golbez be hanging around with the Elemental Fiends?

I thought they were just monsters he could Conjure. :)

[KillianHawkeye]

I thought they were just monsters he could Conjure. :)

No, they're the four elemental incarnations of evil. Their names are derived from the names of devils in Dante's Divine Comedy part 1: The Inferno.

And considering that you face them all again in the Giant of Bab-il, it's likely that they actually work for Zemus and are just taking orders from Golbez during the time that he is Zemus' pawn.

[Story Time]

He's in a non-magical world where he has his powers. Basically he's stranded and he's a "good guy" with all his magic.

Thank you. That is very helpful.


Please allow me to put this into some frame of perspective? Black Mages, since Final Fantasy IV lacks a proper Geomancer, are capable of using Quake for defensive fortifications, Ice for temporary fortifications, Fire for forging weapons, and Lightning. You know, because Lightning-powered technology is the way to go.

If Golbez retained all of his powers and yet had some iota of hume decency then he'd be civil. He would probably let the surrounding dynasties establish them-selves as they saw fit. Instead of conquest Golbez might focus on extending civilization and economy between the islands of Japan. Things like bridges, a steam navy, more air-ships, and larger castles might be his choice.

Tunnels under the seas and earth would not be out-of-bounds either. Any real long-term conquest by Baron would probably include the construction of either a tunnel or a variation of Serpent Road.

Theoretically, the mages could institute and refine climate control for the entire island chain. With perfect weather and seasons harvests could make a good foundation for an economy and trade with the main-land.

And if / when the main-land tried to invade Japan / Baron, Golbez has the answer: Meteor. This doesn't include what a group of Black Mages could do to a fleet. Any attempt at invasion could be responded to by wiping the opponent's capital city from the face of the Earth. The Mongols...would have to be handled a little differently. Their camps could be bombarded from the air, but eliminating them would probably fall to individual Dragoons. Dragoons are the cavalry for Baron, after all.

Hokkaido would probably be swallowed by Baron initially. Exploration of the South Pacific could also yield Baron control of many of the islands in it. If not all of them. Given what Black Mages, Golbez, and other monsters can perform it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to make more islands or a continent itself to spread onto instead of attacking Korea / China / Mongolia.


...my only real trouble with this scenario is whether Golbez had access to any space craft. If so, he might make the choice to colonize the moon instead of make war.

[Kato]

No, they're the four elemental incarnations of evil. Their names are derived from the names of devils in Dante's Divine Comedy part 1: The Inferno.

And considering that you face them all again in the Giant of Bab-il, it's likely that they actually work for Zemus and are just taking orders from Golbez during the time that he is Zemus' pawn.

Well, I wouldn't say they are incarnations of evil just because their names are derived from Dante... But yeah, in the Giant of Babil they name Zemus as their master, so clearly they are more connected to him than Golbeze. Good Golbeze wouldn't hang with them... maybe with Rubicante if any of them.



Anyway, I still see the issue in controlling the world. It is about the same as the earlier scenario though the high increase in population gives them quite an edge if we account for all of them to have the potential to use magic/be warriors that can be stabbed in the face multiple times and don't care.
So I assume the "reach maximum power" plan would be to use every native Baron for military purposes, or a many as possible, and get people from the outside world in to do the petty labors. Normal humans just are no match for any country if we take their capabilities into account. A dozen or so Baronians could destroy a small army with spells and their massive resilience, not even taking into account the airships. So they could place small forces to rule over their territories once they have proven their power and possibly establish themselves as the superior race ruling over normal humans. When they would start fighting amongst each other is another issue...


But that's pretty evil for good Golbeze. He would probably just create the most prosperous and powerful country in the world and people would flock to Baron, trying to migrate their like people from third world countries nowadays hope for a better life in the first world.

[Eakin]

Thank you. That is very helpful.


Please allow me to put this into some frame of perspective? Black Mages, since Final Fantasy IV lacks a proper Geomancer, are capable of using Quake for defensive fortifications, Ice for temporary fortifications, Fire for forging weapons, and Lightning. You know, because Lightning-powered technology is the way to go.

If Golbez retained all of his powers and yet had some iota of hume decency then he'd be civil. He would probably let the surrounding dynasties establish them-selves as they saw fit. Instead of conquest Golbez might focus on extending civilization and economy between the islands of Japan. Things like bridges, a steam navy, more air-ships, and larger castles might be his choice.

Tunnels under the seas and earth would not be out-of-bounds either. Any real long-term conquest by Baron would probably include the construction of either a tunnel or a variation of Serpent Road.

Theoretically, the mages could institute and refine climate control for the entire island chain. With perfect weather and seasons harvests could make a good foundation for an economy and trade with the main-land.

And if / when the main-land tried to invade Japan / Baron, Golbez has the answer: Meteor. This doesn't include what a group of Black Mages could do to a fleet. Any attempt at invasion could be responded to by wiping the opponent's capital city from the face of the Earth. The Mongols...would have to be handled a little differently. Their camps could be bombarded from the air, but eliminating them would probably fall to individual Dragoons. Dragoons are the cavalry for Baron, after all.

Hokkaido would probably be swallowed by Baron initially. Exploration of the South Pacific could also yield Baron control of many of the islands in it. If not all of them. Given what Black Mages, Golbez, and other monsters can perform it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to make more islands or a continent itself to spread onto instead of attacking Korea / China / Mongolia.


...my only real trouble with this scenario is whether Golbez had access to any space craft. If so, he might make the choice to colonize the moon instead of make war.

Was this in the spinoff sequels? I never saw black mages as being all that versatile. You're basically making them out to be Avatar-esque benders rather than just glass cannons. You don't need that much control to throw a fireball

[Story Time]

No, not quite like -benders. But in Final Fantasy, a series where crystals if not orbs keep balance among elements, can create more of that element, and where mages study some of these powers to do the same, it is not unreasonable to propose that Black Mages could accomplish the like. Engineers could be standing by to work with the result.

I just...dis-like it when I see...neglect of this aspect. Construction times are reduced as is the need for generic materials and the transportation of said materials.

Also, chocobos are natural residents in the nation of Baron so I'd assume that the world would see Chocobos-In-Japan(!).

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He would probably just create the most prosperous and powerful country in the world and people would flock to Baron, trying to migrate their like people from third world countries nowadays hope for a better life in the first world.

...random thought that they would have major out-posts on Iwo Jima and in the Hawaii chain.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, I wouldn't say they are incarnations of evil just because their names are derived from Dante...

It's not because of their names. That is their role in the story. They are the FOUR FIENDS of the elements. They are literally evil. The naming thing is just an affirmation of who they are already written to be. The only one with a shred of decency is Rubicant, and that's mainly because he is just too proud to feel any satisfaction in defeating a weaker foe. He is an honorable warrior, yes, but you can be that and still be a complete monster.