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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Excadrill is best if you have a means of throwing up Sandstorms for it, but is still fairly formidable otherwise, with still-decent (but not great) Speed and fantastic Attack. Alternatively, with its Hidden Ability it can smash through Levitation easily... and is in general a better ability for non-Sandstorm teams.
    I'm going for Mold Breaker since I'm not going to use sandstorm on my main team. I do have a sandstorm team on my platinum version though, so maybe I'll breed two and port the old team over.

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    Personally, I'd start with the everstone to help with the nature first (you either want Adamant or Jolly), and then work on producing one with good IV's once you have the nature pinned down.
    Yeah, I did a little bit of breeding already (though my pokemon only had moderate IVs) so I've got a Jolly Mold Breaker Drillbur ♀ already. I'll breed it with N's purrloin and hopefully get something with decent stats. Not going for perfect here, but a 30-31 in attack and speed and at least 20 in defences/HP is what I'm after.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Power Gem is terrible a coverage move for Thunderbolt (Signal Beam covers a decent number of Pokémon you'll find in Unova). If you're up against another Electric type, you're usually best off switching out for something that can deal with your opponent faster rather than staying in.
    Wait, I thought Rock only overlapped with Electric when nabbing Flying types for super effective damage (and in the case of Gligar/Gliscor, Landorus, Shedinja and Lightinrod Zapdos, Rock is the only option between the two). Rock also covers Bug, Ice and Fire. Three additional types, just like Bug covers three additional types.

    Rock helps you hit, for super effective damage, Emolga, Joltik/Galvantula Rotom-H and Zapdos that you couldn't with just Steel and Electric. It's also more effective combo against any other Electric besides Stunfisk and the magnet family.

    Granted, Power Gem is only 70 power, but Ampharos has a pretty good 115 SpA to work with.
    Last edited by Thormag; 2012-12-10 at 03:15 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Wait, I thought Rock only overlapped with Electric when nabbing Flying types for super effective damage (and in the case of Gligar/Gliscor, Landorus, Shedinja and Lightinrod Zapdos, Rock is the only option between the two). Rock also covers Bug, Ice and Fire. Three additional types, just like Bug covers three additional types.

    Rock helps you hit, for super effective damage, Emolga, Joltik/Galvantula Rotom-H and Zapdos that you couldn't with just Steel and Electric. It's also more effective combo against any other Electric besides Stunfisk and the magnet family.

    Granted, Power Gem is only 70 power, but Ampharos has a pretty good 115 SpA to work with.
    It's the 70 power that's the problem. Only when Rock is two levels of damage over Electric does Power Gem deal more damage than STAB Thunderbolt. Signal Beam has more power and covers Hydreigon and Krookodile. For Gliscor and Ice types, Flash Cannon is superior to Power Gem.
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2012-12-10 at 03:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    It's the 70 power that's the problem. Only when Rock is two levels of damage over Electric does Power Gem deal more damage than STAB Thunderbolt. Signal Beam has more power and covers Hydreigon and Krookodile. For Gliscor and Ice types, Flash Cannon is superior to Power Gem.
    Sure, but there are tons of Pokemon that are x4 weak to Rock, so even if it's just a measly 70 power, it's still enough to blast them. Like Volcarona or the millions of part Flying types (useful when conserving PP in-game, which Power Gem has plenty).

    Also, remember that there are several Ice type Pokemon that are neutral to Flash Cannon. Like those pesky Water/Ice types and Rotom.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Sure, but there are tons of Pokemon that are x4 weak to Rock, so even if it's just a measly 70 power, it's still enough to blast them. Like Volcarona or the millions of part Flying types (useful when conserving PP in-game, which Power Gem has plenty).
    I'll give you Volcarona (though its immense power and good special bulk means that I'd be cautious before sending Ampharos against it, let alone Magnezone and its Fire weakness), but there aren't many in-game that are 4x weak to Rock, particularly ones that aren't also at least 2x weak to Electric (wherein STAB Thunderbolt is better again). In-game, which is the setting that you originally wanted the moves compared, Power Gem mostly covers Volcarona, Galvantula, and the Ground/Somethings (Flying, Ice, Fire) that are neutral to Rock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Also, remember that there are several Ice type Pokemon that are neutral to Flash Cannon. Like those pesky Water/Ice types and Rotom.
    Again, assuming in-game (where you aren't going to face many appliance Rotom, if any at all) and you're considering Magnezone's Flash Cannon vs Ampharos's Power Gem, you're forgetting what they're playing coverage to, which is their STAB Thunderbolt. If you're not using Thunderbolt against a Water/Ice Pokémon, I can't help you.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Sure, but there are tons of Pokemon that are x4 weak to Rock, so even if it's just a measly 70 power, it's still enough to blast them. Like Volcarona or the millions of part Flying types (useful when conserving PP in-game, which Power Gem has plenty).

    Also, remember that there are several Ice type Pokemon that are neutral to Flash Cannon. Like those pesky Water/Ice types and Rotom.
    For the most part, a STAB, super effective Thunderbolt is going to beat a non-STAB, super effective Power Gem every time, even if the target has a x4 weakness to Rock (95*1.5*2 = 285 vs. 70*4 = 280). Likewise, Thunderbolt easily beats out Power Gem against the Water/Ice types you mentioned.

    That leaves Power Gem as the superior choice in only a few niche cases, such as Volcarona, where you're probably better off switching off to a different pokemon anyway.

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    Last edited by Alabenson; 2012-12-10 at 05:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Yes, you are both right, STAB Thunderbolt will always be better in these cases, but my point in defending Power Gem is that it's not a bad move (as in, a waste of moveslot), because it has good coverage, it is coming from a 115 SpA base Pokemon (that also gets Thunderbolt, Signal Beam and Focus Blast) and has plenty of PP (20), whereas Flash Cannon has awful coverage (resisted by Water, Fire, Steel and Electric and only hitting super effective against Ice and Rock... whoopdeedoo), 10 less PP and it's only used because the Pokemon in question has nothing else to offer in terms of attacking moves.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Yes, you are both right, STAB Thunderbolt will always be better in these cases, but my point in defending Power Gem is that it's not a bad move (as in, a waste of moveslot), because it has good coverage, it is coming from a 115 SpA base Pokemon (that also gets Thunderbolt, Signal Beam and Focus Blast) and has plenty of PP (20), whereas Flash Cannon has awful coverage (resisted by Water, Fire, Steel and Electric and only hitting super effective against Ice and Rock... whoopdeedoo), 10 less PP and it's only used because the Pokemon in question has nothing else to offer in terms of attacking moves.
    I'm not arguing that Power Gem is a bad move per se; Rock is a very powerful offensive type, and Power Gem is one of the only special moves of that type.

    However, for a non-STAB move its power (base 70) is fairly middle of the road, its coverage overlaps with the Electric type, and is attached to a pokemon who, when compared to Magnezone, lacks speed (5 points lower), offense (15 points lower) and a plethora of resistances brought by the Steel type, one of the strongest defensive types in the game. And for all its flaws, Flash Cannon also hits harder than Power Gem (base 80 vs base 70) and benefits from STAB when used by Magnezone.
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  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    I'm not arguing that Power Gem is a bad move per se; Rock is a very powerful offensive type, and Power Gem is one of the only special moves of that type.

    However, for a non-STAB move its power (base 70) is fairly middle of the road, its coverage overlaps with the Electric type, and is attached to a pokemon who, when compared to Magnezone, lacks speed (5 points lower), offense (15 points lower) and a plethora of resistances brought by the Steel type, one of the strongest defensive types in the game. And for all its flaws, Flash Cannon also hits harder than Power Gem (base 80 vs base 70) and benefits from STAB when used by Magnezone.
    It is middle of the road, but let's also remember that Hidden Power is used for coverage on an awful lot of Pokemon, and it can only go up to 70 power.

    I'm not saying that Magnezone is a bad Pokemon, quite the contraire, I think that the magnet Pokemon is a bit underrated, but I feel that for in-game, Ampharos is an option as viable or better than it.

    Magnezone is going to get outsped most of the time, just like Ampharos. Its set of resistances is useful, but it's no tank and takes more damage from Special moves than Ampharos does (consider that Fire attacks are commonly special). It sports a x4 weakness to Ground and no Levitate, and even though it hits really hard, it's only attacking moves are either Electric, Steel or Normal (I gather that he can be tutored a Bug move, but I don't really know the specifics).

    Magnezone has a lot going for it, but also against it.
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  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    So, breeding question.

    I'm trying in LeafGreen to breed my Gen III Pikachu (who has Bodyslam) - with a female Raichu - and get it passed on. (I thought that tutored moves, like TMs, were all passed on, anyway...)

    Problem is, because of the other moves he has, the Pichu come out with Charm, Thunderbolt, Shockwave and Thunder... What's the fidelity rules for this? Is it like same-type overwrites or something, or is it the order or the moves or what?

    Also, given he's got a Lightball, any idea why the Pichu haven't got Volt Tackle, or was that a Gen IV move or what?

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    So, breeding question.

    I'm trying in LeafGreen to breed my Gen III Pikachu (who has Bodyslam) - with a female Raichu - and get it passed on. (I thought that tutored moves, like TMs, were all passed on, anyway...)

    Problem is, because of the other moves he has, the Pichu come out with Charm, Thunderbolt, Shockwave and Thunder... What's the fidelity rules for this? Is it like same-type overwrites or something, or is it the order or the moves or what?

    Also, given he's got a Lightball, any idea why the Pichu haven't got Volt Tackle, or was that a Gen IV move or what?
    Volt tackle can only be passed in Emerald and later.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Illven View Post
    Volt tackle can only be passed in Emerald and later.
    Ah, yes, of course. Well, that's one issue down!

    (Not a problem itself, since maybe I can chain breed that one later... Or not, I dunno, it might not count in Gen IV or later, might it; doesn't matter, I'd prefer Bodyslam if I have to choose (lower damage, but Pikachu ain't exactly made for takin' recoil damage!), and my preference is to follow Ash's Pikachu as a special attacker anyway.)

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quick question; which is a better move for a Torterra, Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb? Its other moves are Earthquake, Crunch, and Leech Seed. I am taking suggestions for other alternate movesets on it though.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    It is middle of the road, but let's also remember that Hidden Power is used for coverage on an awful lot of Pokemon, and it can only go up to 70 power.
    Hidden Power is also specifically recommended when it covers something that will be a common threat that resists its main attacking move. Power Gem does that only rarely for Thunderbolt... Smogon recommends HP Ice instead for Ampharos, due to then providing pseudo-BoltBeam by covering Ground, Grass, and Dragon (which all resist Electric attacks).
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    Magnezone is going to get outsped most of the time, just like Ampharos. Its set of resistances is useful, but it's no tank and takes more damage from Special moves than Ampharos does (consider that Fire attacks are commonly special). It sports a x4 weakness to Ground and no Levitate, and even though it hits really hard, it's only attacking moves are either Electric, Steel or Normal (I gather that he can be tutored a Bug move, but I don't really know the specifics).
    Magnezone takes more relative special damage than Ampharos (they have the same SpDef stat, Ampharos has more HP), but will resist more attacks. Both are dead to Ground attacks, but Magnezone can pack Sturdy for staying alive for one hit.

    For purpose of playing through BW2, Magnezone is simply superior: it totally walls Roxie, Skyla, and Burgh and is fairly strong (defensively) against Elesa and Drayden's Pokémon, while also having the means to easily KO the first three and Marlon, and goes on to a good showing (not great, but good) against several of the Elite Four's Pokémon. Flaafy/Ampharos gets Power Gem too late for that move to be useful against Burgh or Elesa and doesn't resist most of the physical moves that will be sent at it by the gym leaders. Against the Elite Four, the lack of speed and modest physical defense hurt Ampharos's advantage regarding Marshal and the others' typing favors Magnezone in general (Shauntal's Chandelure is something that one should not be sending in a modestly-bulky and slow Pokémon against anyway, and the Ground types floating about don't do either Ampharos or Magnezone any favors).
    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Quick question; which is a better move for a Torterra, Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb? Its other moves are Earthquake, Crunch, and Leech Seed. I am taking suggestions for other alternate movesets on it though.
    Leech Seed suggests Wood Hammer due to being able to mitigate some of the recoil damage. Wood Hammer is preferred by Smogon due to its immense power. I would suggest Stone Edge over Crunch due to getting in the popular EdgeQuake combo, unless you need the coverage against Ghost or Psychic types.
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2012-12-10 at 07:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    For purpose of playing through BW2, Magnezone is simply superior: it totally walls Roxie, Skyla, and Burgh and is fairly strong (defensively) against Elesa and Drayden's Pokémon, while also having the means to easily KO the first three and Marlon, and goes on to a good showing (not great, but good) against several of the Elite Four's Pokémon. Flaafy/Ampharos gets Power Gem too late for that move to be useful against Burgh or Elesa and doesn't resist most of the physical moves that will be sent at it by the gym leaders. Against the Elite Four, the lack of speed and modest physical defense hurt Ampharos's advantage regarding Marshal and the others' typing favors Magnezone in general (Shauntal's Chandelure is something that one should not be sending in a modestly-bulky and slow Pokémon against anyway, and the Ground types floating about don't do either Ampharos or Magnezone any favors).
    I'll drop the case for Ampharos then, due to my ignorance regarding B&W2 in-game mons and leaders. I just felt like I needed to stand up for the sheared sheep since it helped me tremendously during my HG run.

    Maybe Magnezone IS better than Ampharos for B&W2 particularly, but I still feel it's pretty underwhelming overall, for the reasons that I've stated before.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    I've personally found Electric as a -type- to be largely underwhelming.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    You could always go for the more outlandish and alternative option of Magneton with Eviolite. I mean, if you want a third option.

    Magneton has quite a few things going for itself, it is bulkier than Ampharos and Magnezone with Eviolite, it's also faster than both of them, and if that's not enough, it can still hit really hard (its SpA is higher than Ampharos', although lower than Magnezone)

    It generally has the same problems Magnezone does, as well as not doing as much damage as Magnezone, but still, something to consider.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamity View Post
    You could always go for the more outlandish and alternative option of Magneton with Eviolite. I mean, if you want a third option.

    Magneton has quite a few things going for itself, it is bulkier than Ampharos and Magnezone with Eviolite, it's also faster than both of them, and if that's not enough, it can still hit really hard (its SpA is higher than Ampharos', although lower than Magnezone)

    It generally has the same problems Magnezone does, as well as not doing as much damage as Magnezone, but still, something to consider.
    I used Eviolite Magneton all the way through to the elite four in Black 2, and I'll probably dig it back out for my all steel type elite four run... It did tend to get mauled quite a bit regardless of its defences though...
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Thormag View Post
    I'll drop the case for Ampharos then, due to my ignorance regarding B&W2 in-game mons and leaders. I just felt like I needed to stand up for the sheared sheep since it helped me tremendously during my HG run.

    Maybe Magnezone IS better than Ampharos for B&W2 particularly, but I still feel it's pretty underwhelming overall, for the reasons that I've stated before.
    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved Ampharos back in Gen II. The problem is that, like many great pokemon from the earlier gens, its been rendered obsolete by newer pokemon who fit into the same niche but have better stats/typing/movepools.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Yikes. Having been curious enough to watch a video on how that was done, I think I'll just grovel to Oracle of Wuffling or somebody (or find someone body who's got a spare to trade!) when I get that far with my Pokedex; that looks like waaaay too much hard work!
    Heheheheh... Darkrai is... Darkrai is a special case when it comes to whether or not mine was obtained legitimately. As in, no gameshark was used, bu- WAIT A MINUTE

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
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    - but a non game-enhancing secondary card was used, to get to the Member Card scenario on Pokemon Diamond. And that is technically illegitimate, because that scenario was only ever distributed for Platinum by Wi-Fi. However, it still passes every non-human legitimacy check, because that's a valid way to catch Darkrai as far as the games go, but there's not an actual way that could have been done. Arceus (Nest Ball!) and Shaymin are in the same boat. Apparently Shaymin can't get the item to change forms, but I haven't tested that yet.
    Last edited by OracleofWuffing; 2012-12-11 at 12:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    Whatever you say, Artos.
    With the amount of times people misspell my name as "aorts" - and seriously, I don't think there's a single person on the internets that spelled it right first time unless they priorly saw me correcting someone else, I'm pretty sure it's an interesting statement on human pattern recognition in reading or something - I'm allowed one typo occasionally...!



    So, can anyone shed any light on the aforemention Pikachu Bodyslam breeding difficulties?
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-12-11 at 04:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    So, can anyone shed any light on the aforemention Pikachu Bodyslam breeding difficulties?
    Tutor-only moves aren't passed to offspring.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    So..... A breeder's pokemon managed to give me a pokerus. I'm expecting the first legendary I see to be a shiny at this point.

    Would it be worth it to try to find ice beam to slap on my Samurott?
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  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuho Tsugu View Post
    Tutor-only moves aren't passed to offspring.
    Aha. Well, that explains that then.

    Poo. I really wanted my Bodyslam Pikachu for later gens...

    (Well, I guess I could check to see if I've used it on FR...)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-12-11 at 06:09 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Well that was quick! Got myself a Mold Breaker Drillbur with IVs of 30,30,28,16,28,30* with less than 30 eggs. I also have another with 30,30,22,28,30,26*, which isn't bad, and a decent Sand Rusher with 22,30,30,10,30,30* for my sandstorm team. I am very happy.

    *Approx. based on level 50 stats.

    Just as a random aside to the earlier discussion I have an Ampharos in W2 (had her since the start of the game, all the way to the elite 4) and she is pretty awesome. I play her more defensively, with Cotton Guard and a Rocky Helmet to combo with Static.
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  26. - Top - End - #296
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Would it be worth it to try to find ice beam to slap on my Samurott?
    If you're going for a Special or Mixed Samurott, yes. TM13 (Ice Beam) is in the Giant Chasm in both 1 and 2.

  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    I come to you fellow pokemon lovers as I need help.

    I haven't played a pokemon game since generations 2's Silver and Gold (the originals).

    I am considering buying Black 2 for the simple fact that I love playing with all the eevee evolutions (and eevee) and that I'd be able to catch eevee in the wild for once instead of having to do a bunch of complicated repeated play throughs to get enough. It'd be fun to play pokemon again, play with my all eevee line up and check out the two new evolutions at last.


    So here is my request: What has changed from Silver/Gold to Black 2/White 2?
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  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Vemynal View Post
    I come to you fellow pokemon lovers as I need help.

    I haven't played a pokemon game since generations 2's Silver and Gold (the originals).

    I am considering buying Black 2 for the simple fact that I love playing with all the eevee evolutions (and eevee) and that I'd be able to catch eevee in the wild for once instead of having to do a bunch of complicated repeated play throughs to get enough. It'd be fun to play pokemon again, play with my all eevee line up and check out the two new evolutions at last.


    So here is my request: What has changed from Silver/Gold to Black 2/White 2?
    Well nearly 400 more pokemon.

    Attacks are now classified as physical or special depending on the move, and not it's type.

    Those are the biggest changes I would notice.
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  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Illven View Post
    Well nearly 400 more pokemon.

    Attacks are now classified as physical or special depending on the move, and not it's type.

    Those are the biggest changes I would notice.
    Also pokemon have abilities now.
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  30. - Top - End - #300
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

    Quote Originally Posted by Vemynal View Post
    I come to you fellow pokemon lovers as I need help.

    I haven't played a pokemon game since generations 2's Silver and Gold (the originals).

    *le snip*

    So here is my request: What has changed from Silver/Gold to Black 2/White 2?
    TMs are also reusable, like HMs. Also pokémon in general seem to get more moves, and a lot earlier.
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