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    Default World War Z (the film)

    And its terrible

    The awful CG, the family focused characters, the same regard that iRobot had for the book. It is all there.
    Last edited by SDF; 2012-11-08 at 11:06 PM.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    The books Max Brooks wrote weren't very good either so I'm really not surprised.
    Last edited by Tebryn; 2012-11-08 at 11:26 PM.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Max Brooks, in the book, was very specific on two points. One: that this was a serious subversion of America Saves The Day, because the US was caught hilariously unprepared for the zombie uprising. Two: that zombies are slow, stupid, and were only a threat because they took everyone by surprise after the global media hushed up the problem until it was too big to stop. Those are the primary themes of World War Z: a truly global threat only allowed to happen because of humanity's own idiocy against a threat that should have been possible to stop.

    This movie very specifically says that the zombies are abruptly appearing worldwide for no obvious reason; it is very clearly about the American action hero and his own family rather than the entire world; and the single most awful crime of all, these are fast, superpowered zombies.

    In short, this movie has absolutely no resemblance to the book of World War Z aside from the title and the fact that it includes zombies. And everything that made the book great (in my opinion), that being the survivors from around the world sharing this story, is completely gone.

    Dear movie-makers, please go directly to hell and take this monstrosity with you.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    One more thing I hate is that most of the world just like explosion and action, including my dad and my friends from Burma. I think
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    Last edited by t209; 2012-11-08 at 11:52 PM.
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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post
    Two: that zombies are slow, stupid, and were only a threat because they took everyone by surprise after the global media hushed up the problem until it was too big to stop.
    Well, that and the bit where they were immune to tank shells, but not otaku samurai.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Actually that was pretty well justified by Brooks. A tank shell explodes and can disembowel you, burn you, suck the air out of your lungs, burst your veins with the pressure and break your legs with the damage, to say nothing of knocking you unconscious or putting you into severe shock - but none of that will stop a zombie. Nothing short of severing the spine will immobilize one, and nothing short of cranial trauma will kill one, and short of a direct hit neither of those are guaranteed from an exploding shell.

    The blind gardener was bull****, I'll grant you that, but I sort of took that with a grain of salt. Max Brooks wrote an entire world full of real characters suffering through the Apocalypse and kept them all beautifully grounded in the real world. And then he said, "Now, I want a blind samurai to kill some zombies." Can you really find it in your heart to deny him that? I figure he's allowed one freebie. And let's be honest, it was a fun freebie.
    Last edited by Tergon; 2012-11-09 at 12:07 AM.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post
    Actually that was pretty well justified by Brooks. A tank shell explodes and can disembowel you, burn you, suck the air out of your lungs, burst your veins with the pressure and break your legs with the damage, to say nothing of knocking you unconscious or putting you into severe shock - but none of that will stop a zombie. Nothing short of severing the spine will immobilize one, and nothing short of cranial trauma will kill one, and short of a direct hit neither of those are guaranteed from an exploding shell.

    The blind gardener was bull****e, I'll grant you that, but I sort of took that with a grain of salt. Max Brooks wrote an entire world full of real characters suffering through the Apocalypse and kept them all beautifully grounded in the real world. And then he said, "Now, I want a blind samurai to kill some zombies." Can you really find it in your heart to deny him that I figure he's allowed one freebie. And let's be honest, it was a fun freebie.
    You see this is the part where Brooks loses me. A tank shell will break the spine/head cavity. And even if it does not disembowling, blasting back, breaking the legs will most definitely slow them down quite dramatically where they can be more easily picked off.

    Then there's the actual dropping of bombs to do more damage.

    Then there's the bit where he wants to bring gun technology back decades for stupid, stupid reasons.

    This is fine in a story, I have a very suspend-able disbelief, but then he goes on saying that this is all based off of research and is very accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    This is fine in a story, I have a very suspend-able disbelief, but then he goes on saying that this is all based off of research and is very accurate.
    And this is the part where he loses me, other than the fact I don't find him a very -good- writer to begin with. His research is abysmal if he even did any to begin with. It takes setting up a scenario that just wouldn't happen to make these zombies a threat to begin with as well which bugs me. If you're going for a "realistic" world and then give the CDC the idiot ball and hand wave "The MEDIA" underplayed it like it actually means a thing...ya.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    The only time we really see the tanks in action is The Battle Of Yonkers. And there it's pretty well explained by the narrator (Todd the ex-marine, I think): They're firing a dozen tank shells into a swarming mass of literally tens of thousands of zombies. He specifically says that where the shells hit you saw zombies blasted to shreds - I think he compares it to a woodchipper at one point - but then he notes that pretty soon the tanks were out of ammunition and there were another ten thousand zombies right behind the decimated first ranks, and another hundred thousand behind them.
    When the book says that tanks "did nothing" it means that they did not effect the overall battle in any meaningful way. Part of that is the lack of ammunition, and part of it is that tanks firing shells are not designed to combat soft targets, particularly en masse. The shells devestated those zombies they actually hit; it's just that the "splash damage" you expect from an explosion has a very, very reduced effect on zombies, because there's nothing there that can work on them.

    As for the bombs, again, the narrator notes that the bombs did really well, and expresses utter bewilderment and frustration that there was not another bombing run after the first. So that's lampshaded. And the guns, it was noted (accurately) that the vast, vast majority of shots fired in war do not score a kill, and when you're crippled for resources to the point where bullets are very hard to come by, you need to make every shot count. A single-shot rifle that can be fired once every few seconds achieves that.

    I'm not saying all of Brooks' logic plays out 100%, but he does at least go for a reasonable justification as to why it might work, given the circumstances he describes.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Brad Pitt versus an army of zombies is about all I needed to know about the movie. No thanks, I'll pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    You see this is the part where Brooks loses me. A tank shell will break the spine/head cavity. And even if it does not disembowling, blasting back, breaking the legs will most definitely slow them down quite dramatically where they can be more easily picked off.
    I believe the point wasn't that a tank shell was useless against a zombie; it's that a tank shell isn't that useful getting rid of a group of zombies. Yes, you're smash the head or backbone of a few of them, but the vast majority will still be getting back up and/or crawling forward.

    A large point towards the end of the book was that a calm nerves and a simple flare-bullet was all it took to eliminate a zombie. The problem was that in the beginning the governments were throwing out the most expensive equipment to do the job, and thus ended up overrun because they couldn't produce and utilize the weapons fast enough.

    That, and used silliness of street-level ground troops against a mob. The book did have a number of faults.
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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    While getting tied up in the particulars of a specific battle is kinda missing the point (Brooks is a terrible author), the Battle of Yonkers is mind-boggling stupid even with the explanation that the commanders apparently were brain dead (lawlz).

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    Ahh yes, the battle of Yonkers, the bit of stupidity where a main general could not come up with adequate supplies and was overrun by slow moving targets with 0 range capabilities. It was one of the worst tactical scenes I've read since the main characters of the Sword of Truth decided to catch a larger army by surprise by making themselves glow in the dark, while naked, in the winter. I could have come up with a better battle plan. And his reason for this bit of lunacy? Because the general was a hold over from the Cold War. Do you know what our tactics were during the Cold War? Drop mountains upon mountains of bombs. Incendiary the area. Rain Hell down upon them. And then it will take a 12 year old to figure out to also place some form of barricade around the area (doesn't even have to be a complex one as you're literally facing mindless idiots).

    And yes, again, a lot of shots do not secure a kill. But then, a vast majority of shots in a war are not performed against slow moving, fleshy targets who walk straight at you without cover. And even if they were, again, shooting the legs or messing with the body will slow them down and negate them as a serious threat.

    The guy picks up some information and ignores what he doesn't like to get the scenario he wants and declares that it's off of real life research.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2012-11-09 at 01:00 AM.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    It's pretty funny because they could have just said "screw shooting them" and then run them over like the world's biggest mutli game of GTA.

    Actually, that would have been hilarious.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Well that's the thing, isn't it? People seem to dislike the book (not just here, but others I've discussed it with) because they think Max Brooks wrote about a long string of stupid coincidence to let the zombie apocalypse happen, and then tried to claim it was plausible. But it's actually the exact opposite to that. The guy basically came up with his zombie virus, Solanum, and said "These are the rules about my zombies." And then he had to think up a way to cause the zombie Apocalypse while staying within those rules.

    It took him around seven seconds to realise that no plausible scenario where this was going to happen. So, he made it happen with a gigantic global screwup where it spread in the third world where nobody heard about it, then was covered up by governments who wanted to keep their dirty secret, then spread through other channels while everyone either didn't believe it or intentionally kept the secret. Follow that up with stupid people who panicked when they found out zombies were real, and the massive chaos that caused allowed the zombie problem to grow even larger because everyone was running and nobody was stopping to think for five seconds. And at the end, when the military stepped in, they failed because of armchair generals using shock and awe tactics and vastly underestimating just how hard it is to kill a zombie. With zero morale, all usable resources for the short-term completely exhausted, and the zombie uprising a much bigger problem than anyone knew because nations weren't sharing information... that's how the apocalypse happened.

    The point is, this is lampshaded left and right by every character with two living brain cells to rub together. If the people, governments and military forces of the world had not done the stupidest possible thing, the zombie apocalypse would have been stopped before it began.
    Max Brooks isn't telling a story about the world led by all us clever people who sit back and say, "Well I'd have never let that happen." He's telling the story of a world where the stupid decisions did get made during the zombie apocalypse. If you don't like that, fine, but that doesn't make him a bad storyteller; it just means you missed the point of what he was doing.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    The guy picks up some information and ignores what he doesn't like to get the scenario he wants and declares that it's off of real life research.
    Yes, pretty much this. Hence Tanks not decimating unarmed walking infantry, super-daschund and civil war era rifle line tactics being the best way to do anything other than make yourself look silly.
    And the Gardener. And yes, I do deny him that, he used up his freebee on his non-magical zombies happily walking through the ocean and getting more than a few feet before the ecosystem dismantled them entirely.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    The point's pretty obvious (weird satire) it just requires stupid levels of incompetence and coincidence for it to happen.

    Plus the vignettes weren't particularly interesting. Some were kind of amusing, but others not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post
    Well that's the thing, isn't it? People seem to dislike the book (not just here, but others I've discussed it with) because they think Max Brooks wrote about a long string of stupid coincidence to let the zombie apocalypse happen, and then tried to claim it was plausible. But it's actually the exact opposite to that. The guy basically came up with his zombie virus, Solanum, and said "These are the rules about my zombies." And then he had to think up a way to cause the zombie Apocalypse while staying within those rules.
    This would be fine if that's what he actually said. Again, I point to my high level of suspension of disbelief, you want to show our military losing to zombies? That's fine, I understand it's necessary for a zombie apocalypse to take place. But he does not say this, he says that his facts and figures are what would happen and it's all based off of real in-depth research into our military and weapons when it is based on nothing of the sort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post

    The point is, this is lampshaded left and right by every character with two living brain cells to rub together. If the people, governments and military forces of the world had not done the stupidest possible thing, the zombie apocalypse would have been stopped before it began.
    That doesn't excuse it of being badly written, badly researched or poorly implemented in the cases it's lampshaded. Nor does it validate any of the times the idiot ball is thrown around either.

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    Zombie Apocalypse Movie? yes please. Who cares that's its a silly scenario, the whole notion of a Zombie Apocalypse is pretty silly in the first place. This looks like a good bit of fun with plenty of violent overkill and collateral damage.

    Looks good to me.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Damn. I think one of the worst things is there was an amazing script made. In 2008 it was said that the script was, and I quote, "... a genre-defining piece of work that could well see us all arguing about whether or not a zombie movie qualifies as 'Best Picture' material." That sounds like exactly what I would have wanted for an adaptation of the book, which I personally enjoyed though I understand the detractors point of view.

    Instead we get this Holiwoodized to the extreme thing I'm not allowed to say on this forum. Honestly I might watch it, but I won't pay for it, and I will hate it for ruining the chance of the original getting made, especially if it does well financially and given the lead actor and budget it probably will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    That doesn't excuse it of being badly written, badly researched or poorly implemented in the cases it's lampshaded. Nor does it validate any of the times the idiot ball is thrown around either.
    Pretty much.

    If you have to make everybody an idiot to make your satire work (And Im a person who believes that common man ISN'T stupid. Slightly paranoid? Tend to take things too simply? Yes. But not stupid) then you fail.

    The book is...kinda racist in my opinion. Not too get too deeply into that, but It felt like he simplified countries to the barest minimum (Pretty much EVERY country) in order to tell his story.

    He makes his story so difficult to pull off he ignores every other fact.

    How can we loose to zombies if we have tanks? Just get 20 of those suckers and just run over everybody.

    edit:

    Also the zombies would have killed themselves in hours.

    Think about the HUNDREDS of daily things that you do that if they wen't wrong, you would seriously damage yourself.

    As a Zombie, you lack those instintcs:

    A slightly bumpy road, sidewalk, sharp edges, would reduce you to crumbled mush.

    Double edit all the way:

    The whole thing reminds me of this
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2012-11-09 at 04:44 AM.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    The book isn't so bad.
    Brooks explained why many kind of ammo didn't work well against zombies, both for the collateral damage, both for things like "who cares if you suck out the air?". Some explanation works, some others, much less.
    It's not realistic? again, who cares? we're talking 'bout zombies, it's not that a scenario with zombies with supernatural abilities (ala L4D) is less stupid.
    in WWZ, zombies are impervious to explosions and so on, this is the setting.

    'bout yonkers. It's stupid? yes. It is somehow justified? sort of. Soldiers were wearing senseless equipment for the presence of the TV, it was a sort of spot. See, we all know it was totally dumb, the whole trenches thing, the stationary tanks, yadda yadda.
    You know what? it happens. Real military history, even the recent one, is literally full of battles losed by dumb decisions, made because you overestimate yourself, and undervalue your enemy. To be absolutely sure of your victory, usually leads to disaster, and (just to cite a famous example) you don't need to be a genius to guess that charging frontally a fortified position filled with cannons, with a cavalry light brigade, isn't probally the best option available.

    So, I can buy one Yonker. I'm less incline to buy that a single battle losed, throws into chaos your entire army and you're not able to do anything in your whole country except fleeing.
    Last edited by Killer Angel; 2012-11-09 at 05:30 AM.
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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    Also: Bullets have kinetic energy. Even ONE bullet is likely to knock even a very well balanced person on their butt.

    What about zombies that can barely even stand?

    Brooks seriously undervalues damage done to zombies outside of the head.

    Hit the spine and then just collapse. Hit the legs and they collapse.

    Hit the body and they just fall down and collapse.

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    I don't think he could have left the collapse of civilization and everyone's death vague or an unknown like in Zombieland (or even L4D) with the scope of his story, but his description of it is bonkers and is so wacky that it just doesn't satirize military or government incompetence very well.

    But then it could be forgiven if the rest of the book was half-way decent.

    I kinda hope the movie is so ridiculous that it ends up in Red Dawn land, only without so much nationalism and more bone-headed action. Or go full-insanity and make it like Starship Troopers. Heh.

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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    I confess I've never read World War Z but Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide did show a lot of careful thought and research throughout.

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    I always thought World War Z was an unfilmable concept. If it's bad, I won't be surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Also the zombies would have killed themselves in hours.
    Think about the HUNDREDS of daily things that you do that if they wen't wrong, you would seriously damage yourself.
    As a Zombie, you lack those instintcs:
    A slightly bumpy road, sidewalk, sharp edges, would reduce you to crumbled mush.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Also: Bullets have kinetic energy. Even ONE bullet is likely to knock even a very well balanced person on their butt.
    What about zombies that can barely even stand?
    Brooks seriously undervalues damage done to zombies outside of the head.
    Hit the spine and then just collapse. Hit the legs and they collapse.
    Hit the body and they just fall down and collapse.
    True, but seriously, this can be said for basically all the films with the shambler zombie type. And also for a certain amount of the other zombie movies.
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    Last edited by Killer Angel; 2012-11-09 at 05:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    True, but seriously, this can be said for basically all the films with the shambler zombie type.
    Yeah, but at least their ADMITTING to being goofy or at least fantastical.

    WWZ does the sin of taking itself too seriously and insisting that its really factual.

    But whatever. The guy tried and failed. Nothing horrible. Except for the stereotyping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledore lives View Post
    Damn. I think one of the worst things is there was an amazing script made. In 2008 it was said that the script was, and I quote, "... a genre-defining piece of work that could well see us all arguing about whether or not a zombie movie qualifies as 'Best Picture' material." That sounds like exactly what I would have wanted for an adaptation of the book, which I personally enjoyed though I understand the detractors point of view.

    Instead we get this Holiwoodized to the extreme thing I'm not allowed to say on this forum. Honestly I might watch it, but I won't pay for it, and I will hate it for ruining the chance of the original getting made, especially if it does well financially and given the lead actor and budget it probably will.
    I wonder if that was the J. Michael Straczynski script, because I know he was one of the early ones taking a shot at it. Of course, there were probably at least a half-dozen iteration after his. I always envisioned something like Band of Brothers for this, but that's too much to hope for. It might still work as a popcorn flick on its own terms, I'll have to see more to get a better feeling, though.
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    Default Re: World War Z (the film)

    I think it's generally acknowledged that non-superhuman zombies aren't going to stand much of a chance against modern artillery, which is why most zombie media takes the perspective of average schlubs trying to survive amidst the horror.

    But still, whether or not tanks can simply roll over zombies and machine guns can shred undead flesh, zombie apocalypses are never presented as straight-up battles. The undead are too busy smashing through front doors and nibbling on survivors in shopping malls. While you may be untouchable in an armoured vehicle, when 99 per cent of the population has been converted to the shambling undead, does it really matter?
    "Justice is a blade that draws blood from the innocent and wicked alike. And raised high, it can lead a charge that changes the world forever."

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