Coid's Crowing Conundrum of a Canticle of Crookedly Random Banter #185

[DJ Yung Crunk]

...they genuinely like it. I can't actually see a reason not to, but I'm rather biased, and have been told several times that I'm bad at critiquing things I personally enjoy. So perhaps you could explain why - aside from anecdotal evidence - those who watch Doctor Who can't be intellectuals in your mind, so I can better understand where you're coming from.

Because it's just such an obvious show. Clearly this was intended on the part of the writers and producers to appeal to a wider audience (as evidenced by the merchandise aimed at children) so I can't really fault them for it. It's just that every theme and every emotion is explained to the audience outright, most of the conflict is fairly standard good vs evil and when they occasionally break away from that they're none too subtle about it. The actors overperform, the soundtrack is loud, cacophonous and obvious.

I could go on but I'm finding it more and more difficult to keep myself from just slamming the show outright.

[MoonCat]

Hey, you asked for a possible explanation. It's up to you whether to do anything with that. It's fine by me if you ignore the matter entirely.

Technically I didn't. I asked what the problem was, and then everything... spiraled.

I'm not stating that this is fact, and I have been very clear on that. I'm stating that this is highly likely based on the information we have been given.

Things were so much simpler when you could just punch the person you liked in the shoulder while you were in the playground, then run away.

I still don't see how it's likely just based on what I've told y'all.

Oh no. I did that to everyone. If everyone out there's as crazy to assume crushes as you all, I must be considered the most ommnisexual person in my town.

[Form]

Technically I didn't. I asked what the problem was, and then everything... spiraled.

Pfeh, splitting hairs. You asked and you received.

[HalfTangible]

NO IT ISN'T.

Yes it is.

And then you imply that I'M the misanthrope.

<grumbles>

YES. IT IIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

No it's noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttt Hey, this is fun!

No, I implied you SOUNDED like one. Specifically, ME!! which you did. Admittedly with less murder.

Hey, stop your grumbling!

[MoonCat]

Yes. Now, let's talk about ponies rather than arguing, because while I don't particularly like ponies I like arguments even less.

Crap, I didn't mean to sound argumentative. PONIES!

[Teddy]

There was actually a rather surreal game called "Love" released not long ago. Or it might still be in alpha. Not sure.

The organic form of love is an infinitely more complex and tricksy beast.

And probably contains even less syntax than "Human Language".

I'd make a programming language called "LOVE". You work until your fingertips bleed to set up the perfect interface between two modules that everyone agree to were built for eachother, but when you run the program, it starts to display a number of hidden bugs that in time grow more and more aggravating, until one day it simply crashes, erase the binaries, corrupts the executables and refuse to recompile. And then you accidently introduce one of your modules to a dirty and unstable hack you cribbed of the Internet, just to realise that they run like a well-oiled piece of Swiss clockwork together, never to crash again.

Alas, such a language is never going to happen in the world of computation...

[Dimonite]

Because it's just such an obvious show. Clearly this was intended on the part of the writers and producers to appeal to a wider audience (as evidenced by the merchandise aimed at children) so I can't really fault them for it. It's just that every theme and every emotion is explained to the audience outright, most of the conflict is fairly standard good vs evil and when they occasionally break away from that they're none too subtle about it. The actors overperform, the soundtrack is loud, cacophonous and obvious.

I could go on but I'm finding it more and more difficult to keep myself from just slamming the show outright.

I get the feeling here that you're not talking about the New Who, but rather the first 8 doctors - especially with the "actors overperform" bit, as David Tennant at least is a FANTASTIC actor. If you disagree, you can take that up with the ROYAL SHAKESPEARE COMPANY, who hired him to play Hamlet (and other things). Also, I'm sick of the whole "clearly defined good vs. evil is bad writing" argument - that basically says that Tolkien, Lewis, and countless others are bad writers when they really really aren't.

[MoonCat]

Pfeh, splitting hairs. You asked and you received.

I didn't. I said I didn't know why he seemed miffed, Rawhide over here, smirked, and I asked him why, and now everyone's all advice-giving on things that aren't real! It's all up to the winged amphoras with you lot!

YES. IT IIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

No it's noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttt Hey, this is fun!

No, I implied you SOUNDED like one. Specifically, ME!! which you did. Admittedly with less murder.

Hey, stop your grumbling!

NO IT ISN'T

YES IT IS.

Flarg you. Also, why are you a misanthrope? Some people are so nice!

NEVAH!!!!

[Devmaar]

You insulted her repeatedly and never spoke to her otherwise?

Not quite never...

And how was inviting you to watch Dr.Who an insult?

[Rawhide]

Technically I didn't. I asked what the problem was, and then everything... spiraled.

Well, technically you did. This is the most likely possibility, thus answering your question.

I still don't see how it's likely just based on what I've told y'all.

There seems to be a very high ratio of intelligent people who miss the obvious signs. I've never personally seen someone so vehemently deny them when they were pointed out, though.

Oh no. I did that to everyone. If everyone out there's as crazy to assume crushes as you all, I must be considered the most ommnisexual person in my town.

The point is that there are many different ways in which people express attraction or other forms of like, some of which include hurtful actions. The example I gave is probably most often seen when young, prepubescent girls don't know how to deal with their strange feelings for boys their own age.

Some people will become very quiet around people they like, afraid of saying something wrong, others might make some sort of an effort to get their phone number, but then not know what to do with it once they have it, and yes, some people will insult the person they like - sometimes to cover up the feelings, deny them, or just because they don't know what to do.

Again, there is a disproportionate number of intelligent people who don't know how to deal with affections or are too afraid to approach someone, so the people they like never find out.

[MoonCat]

Not quite never...

And how was inviting you to watch Dr.Who an insult?

OKay, then not quite never on his part.

Most of the time when he's around he's mocking my height or some other aspect of my appearance (whenever I do something new he sticks to those jabs for a while, such as when I started with the trenchcoat to school everyday, and more recently, the new hair.), or coming up with new excuses for why he can't do the Doctor Who thing that he suggested yet.

[HalfTangible]

NO IT ISN'T

YES IT IS.

Flarg you.

Also, why are you a misanthrope? Some people are so nice!

NEVAH!!!!

STOP ARGUING WITH YOURSELF AND HAND ME THAT RUBBER CHICKEN SO I CAN SLAP YOU WITH IT!! That's crucial to the sketch!!

Yes please~* ... wait, what does flarg mean? I hope it means 'to give someone a jetpack!

I'm not anymore but I was in high school, mostly because I'd just come out of middle school... i still cry about things from middle school, sometimes =(

NO GRUMBLING!! ONLY MUMBLING!!!

---

*It's funny because the action in question disgusts and terrifies me

[DJ Yung Crunk]

I get the feeling here that you're not talking about the New Who, but rather the first 8 doctors - especially with the "actors overperform" bit, as David Tennant at least is a FANTASTIC actor. If you disagree, you can take that up with the ROYAL SHAKESPEARE COMPANY, who hired him to play Hamlet (and other things). Also, I'm sick of the whole "clearly defined good vs. evil is bad writing" argument - that basically says that Tolkien, Lewis, and countless others are bad writers when they really really aren't.

Actually I was talking about New Who. Classic Who could be a bore at times (understatement) but it certainly didn't even come close to approaching New Who's obviousness. And it certainly didn't have a loud and cacophonous score (no, Classic Who's soundtrack had it's own problems).

And yes, David Tennant was the most grievous offender of the "overact" criticism. Perhaps it wasn't his fault, perhaps it was the direction. Either way some moments of his career were so fantastically overdone they bordered on comedy for me, notably "I don't want to go".

Tolkien and Lewis wrote novels. Novels have the advantage of having the style make up for the substance. Tolkien could be a bore at time (understatement x2) but the simplicity of the plot was made up for by the language and poetry and the metaphors and all that. New Who is a television show with rather prosaic dialogue, on the other hand.

[MoonCat]

Well, technically you did. This is the most likely possibility, thus answering your question.

There seems to be a very high ratio of intelligent people who miss the obvious signs. I've never personally seen someone so vehemently deny them when they were pointed out, though.

The point is that there are many different ways in which people express attraction or other forms of like, some of which include hurtful actions. The example I gave is probably most often seen when young, prepubescent girls don't know how to deal with their strange feelings for boys their own age.

Some people will become very quiet around people they like, afraid of saying something wrong, others might make some sort of an effort to get their phone number, but then not know what to do with it once they have it, and yes, some people will insult the person they like - sometimes to cover up the feelings, deny them, or just because they don't know what to do.

Again, there is a disproportionate number of intelligent people who don't know how to deal with affections or are too afraid to approach someone, so the people they like never find out.

Feh.

Because they don't make sense. As an answer, it seems incredibly unlikely.

Wait, the punching? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't care about any of those people, and I was the only person running around punching people as well.

I'm quite certain that this was not his reason for getting my phone number and insulting me and all that.

STOP ARGUING WITH YOURSELF AND HAND ME THAT RUBBER CHICKEN SO I CAN SLAP YOU WITH IT!! That's crucial to the sketch!!

Yes please~* ... wait, what does flarg mean? I hope it means 'to give someone a jetpack!

I'm not anymore but I was in high school, mostly because I'd just come out of middle school... i still cry about things from middle school, sometimes =(

NO GRUMBLING!! ONLY MUMBLING!!!

---

*It's funny because the action in question disgusts and terrifies me

My chicken is currently occupied with having a pulley in it. Sorry.

*What's so disgusting about giving people jet packs?

Oh hey, me too. I actually had to explain why I broke down in the middle of English class a few weeks ago to my teacher because of that.

NEVAH!

[Rawhide]

Because they don't make sense. As an answer, it seems incredibly unlikely.

But not unlikely to anybody that isn't you.

Wait, the punching? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't care about any of those people, and I was the only person running around punching people as well.

Some people do something != all people do something.

I'm quite certain that this was not his reason for getting my phone number and insulting me and all that.

You are? He wouldn't be the first to use a ruse to get someone's phone number, by far.

[Teddy]

I'm not stating that this is fact, and I have been very clear on that. I'm stating that this is highly likely based on the information we have been given.

You used the word theory, but stated the premises as facts, despite the fact that only one of those has ever been stated by Moonie, and even then you interpretted it quite heavily ("he doesn't want to spend that time with people other than you" isn't quite the same as "I suggested taking [Intellectual *******]* along to the other dude. he seemed sorta miffed").

*(Pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to Intellectual? I think I'm spending too much of my wake time programming...)

[Dimonite]

Actually I was talking about New Who. Classic Who could be a bore at times (understatement) but it certainly didn't even come close to approaching New Who's awesomeness. And it certainly didn't have a powerful and glorious score (no, Classic Who's soundtrack had it's own problems).

And yes, David Tennant was the most grievous offender of the "overact" criticism. Perhaps it wasn't his fault, perhaps it was the direction. Either way some moments of his career were so fantastically overdone they bordered on comedy for me, notably "I don't want to go".

Tolkien and Lewis wrote novels. Novels have the advantage of having the style make up for the substance. Tolkien could be a bore at time (understatement x2) but the simplicity of the plot was made up for by the language and poetry and the metaphors and all that. New Who is a television show with rather prosaic dialogue, on the other hand.

Fixed that for you.

But seriously, I think both of us are mixing fact and opinion somewhat, although as a second generation theater major with the vast majority of people who've watched the show backing me up, I'd say I have some degree of credibility when I say you are wrong about Tennant overacting.

[MoonCat]

But not unlikely to anybody that isn't you.

You are? He wouldn't be the first to use a ruse to get someone's phone number, by far.

Teddy agrees with me!

Yes! I am quite sure that he just acts the way he does because that is his personality, and that he has my phone number because I gave it to him last year so that he could call me to watch Doctor Who with him, and that he hasn't actually set that up over the last five and a half months is because he is just really bad at setting things up!

[Kindablue]

Doctor Who is so over the top man.

[Rawhide]

You used the word theory, but stated the premises as facts, despite the fact that only one of those has ever been stated by Moonie, and even then you interpretted it quite heavily ("he doesn't want to spend that time with people other than you" isn't quite the same as "I suggested taking [Intellectual *******]* along to the other dude. he seemed sorta miffed").

*(Pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to pointer to Intellectual? I think I'm spending too much of my wake time programming...)

As you yourself pointed out, I used the word theroy. I then proceeded to present that theory.

In later post, still before your reply, you will see I used the words "highly likely".

I never said that you liked the other one, or him. The only relevant point is that you cannot know what he's thinking, and it's highly likely that he wants to spend more time with you - despite your vehement but totally illogical denials.

Prior to that, I was hinting at a possible, but likely, explanation.

I will thank you kindly not to put words into my mouth. I have never stated anything as "fact".

[HalfTangible]

My chicken is currently occupied with having a pulley in it. Sorry.

*What's so disgusting about giving people jet packs?

Oh hey, me too. I actually had to explain why I broke down in the middle of English class a few weeks ago to my teacher because of that.

NEVAH!

aaaaaaaaaaaaw D=

Jet packs lead to sex on rooftops and mass murder from 3,000ft. Everybody knows that.

In that case you had it much worse than me. I tend to do so in bed or while driving. And only a few times a year.

YOU WILL OBEY, OR YOU WILL BE EX-TER-MIN-ATED!!!

[HalfTangible]

Actually I was talking about New Who. Classic Who could be a bore at times (understatement) but it certainly didn't even come close to approaching New Who's obviousness. And it certainly didn't have a loud and cacophonous score (no, Classic Who's soundtrack had it's own problems).

And yes, David Tennant was the most grievous offender of the "overact" criticism. Perhaps it wasn't his fault, perhaps it was the direction. Either way some moments of his career were so fantastically overdone they bordered on comedy for me, notably "I don't want to go".

Tolkien and Lewis wrote novels. Novels have the advantage of having the style make up for the substance. Tolkien could be a bore at time (understatement x2) but the simplicity of the plot was made up for by the language and poetry and the metaphors and all that. New Who is a television show with rather prosaic dialogue, on the other hand.

I never felt that way about it (especially not about "i don't want to go"), possibly because Doctor Who is so fantastically over-the-top ridiculous anyway. This is, after all, a universe that unravels itself on a regular basis in which shadows can melt flesh like a piranha school, statues move when you're not looking, creatures you can't remember have been mind-controlling the earth for thousands of years, if not millions, with the power of post-hypnotic suggestion, and space-satan is chained to an asteroid orbiting a black hole.

So, no, I don't have a problem with the doctor screaming "IT'S NOT FAIR!" like a child when he finds out he has to kill himself to save somebody else.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

But seriously, I think both of us are mixing fact and opinion somewhat, although as a second generation theater major with the vast majority of people who've watched the show backing me up, I'd say I have some degree of credibility when I say you are wrong about Tennant overacting.

Why can't we discuss something subjective? What is this aversion people have with talking opinion? Are we going to change each other's minds? Doubtful. But it's never really the end of the conversation people have conversations for.

I certainly don't have that sort of background but merely speaking as a layman, myself and other people find Tennant's acting on Doctor Who to be fall-down funny. Not Nic Cage levels of overacting, sure, but certainly in a weird, hilarious class all it's own.

Bad move saying "a majority of the people who've watched the show" though. I don't take anything a large number of Whovians say seriously. You're one of the good ones, but I have met some complete dullards in my day. The kind of people who are just two marbles in a can.

I never felt that way about it (especially not about "i don't want to go"), possibly because Doctor Who is so fantastically over-the-top ridiculous anyway. This is, after all, a universe that unravels itself on a regular basis in which shadows can melt flesh like a piranha school, statues move when you're not looking, creatures you can't remember have been mind-controlling the earth for thousands of years, if not millions, with the power of post-hypnotic suggestion, and space-satan is chained to an asteroid orbiting a black hole.

So, no, I don't have a problem with the doctor screaming "IT'S NOT FAIR!" like a child when he finds out he has to kill himself to save somebody else.

And that's fine. I don't disagree with you that it fits. But all of this does, in a way, help my earlier point that I thought it was strange that people who claim to be intellectuals would be such open fans of it. Where I'm from our elitists tend to prefer subtlety and I don't believe that New Who has a subtle bone in its body.

[Kneenibble]

The fumes of drama arising from this thread have choked my will to discourse ;____;

Sad budgie.

Spoiler

Show

[MoonCat]

aaaaaaaaaaaaw D=

Jet packs lead to sex on rooftops and mass murder from 3,000ft. Everybody knows that.

In that case you had it much worse than me. I tend to do so in bed or while driving. And only a few times a year.

YOU WILL OBEY, OR YOU WILL BE EX-TER-MIN-ATED!!!

I thought those were rings of jumping.

Ach, FDS, y'know?

I'm not afraid of you! I've got a jammy dodger!

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Sad budgie.

Spoiler

Show

Doesn't look especially sad to me. I've never been good at reading the emotions of birds, though, so I'll have to take your word for it.

In any case, let's see if I can't Heimlich the drama from you and clear the path for some light and breezy, nice and easy early morning talk show conversing. You'll have to pick a subject, though. I tend to have dreadful luck starting conversations. I usually get arrested.

[HalfTangible]

I thought those were rings of jumping.

Ach, FDS, y'know?

I'm not afraid of you! I've got a jammy dodger!

Maybe for universes that DON'T have jetpacks.

... No, I... don't know what does FDS even mean?

Act-i-vate REALITY BOMB!!

[AsteriskAmp]

... No, I... don't know what does FDS even mean?

Fantastic Dweomer of Storms

[MoonCat]

Maybe for universes that DON'T have jetpacks.

... No, I... don't know what does FDS even mean?

Act-i-vate REALITY BOMB!!

I wanna be in the universe with broomsticks!

Hmmph! Well, if you don't know my entire life story that I have revealed to the forum over the course of several years and then don't know what I mean when I randomly refer to it using cryptic acronyms, then what right do you have to put me in your signature?



(My old school. I call it Former Dream School.)

[HalfTangible]

I wanna be in the universe with broomsticks!

Hmmph! Well, if you don't know my entire life story that I have revealed to the forum over the course of several years and then don't know what I mean when I randomly refer to it using cryptic acronyms, then what right do you have to put me in your signature?



(My old school. I call it Former Dream School.)

I know the story behind witches-with-broomsticks. So I don't. I want my jetpack!

Are you sure? Check again