Transformers 4 in 2014

[KnightDisciple]

Transformers are kinda stuck with humans.

1.All most all Transformers transform into a vehicle of some sort. And a vehicle is made to hold a driver and passengers. So, as vehicles, they have doors and cockpits and such. But without humans(or an equally sized alien race) then the transformers would not need to waste space. This is hugely true with most autobots, as the passenger space of a car takes up a huge amount of room.

This was one of the big problems with the 'robots only' comics. Why did they still transform into vehicles with doors and cockpits and such? It was almost as bad as ''oh it's millions of years before 1984, but everyone still transforms into Earth stuff as I'm a lazy writer and can't think up of new alt modes for like twenty characters.''

1.)Are we talking pre-earth comics? Post-earth? Alt-history?
I mean, I guess some of it is laziness, yeah, esp with prequel stuff.

But perhaps some of it's styling; Cybertronians don't wear clothes, so style for them would be based on their bodies directly.

Also, with the size differences between some bots, they might actually legitimately have passenger space for, you know, passengers. Especially if size-shift shenanigans are afoot.

And it's just kinda odd that transformers just turn into 'car things' or 'plane things', but not really cars or planes.

If you're discussing how some works, like War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron and some IDW comics, have "Cybertronian vehicles"....what's so surprising?
I mean, you're not making a deal of the fact that Cybertronians by and large look awful human-like. It's that same scif-fi hand-wave about how the "humanoid form is just so efficient" or whatnot, that explains why so many aliens are "humans but with X".
So if you've got a bio-mechanical race that turns into vehicles, why not go with the idea that they'll find certain basic configurations that are a.)effective and b.)similar-ish to Earth stylings?
I mean, 4 wheels arranged in a rectangular pattern, with the vehicle above them, semi-aerodynamic, and you're halfway there, really.

2.Robots in Disguise. A big, big part of the transformers is the disguise part. And without humans, and the backdrop of Earth, you can't really get the 'disguise' part. Space is big and mostly empty, so unless all the transformers alt modes are just rocks, they can't really hide 'out there'. And they don't really 'disguise' from each other on Cybertron as..well...the planet is full of transformers. The only place a transformer can hide in disguise is some place like Earth. An autobot that looks like a car can sure blend in with other cars and fool both humans and decepticons. So you need humans and Earth.

I'm pretty sure the Cybertronians have alt forms because they find them useful. Not for disguise.
The tagline for the franchise is "robots in disguise", but really, it's not hard to see reasons for having vehicle alt modes.
I mean, imagine being able to fly on your own power! Or drive yourself to work, literally!
The idea then is that they just like being able to turn into a car and burn rubber and get around more quickly, or turn into a jet and fly really fast, or a construction vehicle and do the job themselves, or a super-microscope and directly gather and analyze the data, or a couple dozen other ideas.

3.Alt modes. If you had no humans, no Earth or any other life and just transformers....why would transformers not have useful alt modes. Take most ground vehicle autobots. They often look like 'plain cars' to blend in, as if they had , say 5mm cannons on their hood people would notice. And that is fine for disguise: autobots give up any outward weapons for the sake of disguise. But if your just becoming a 'vehicle like thing' to move in a civil war, why not have outward weapons? Or rocket thrusters? Or anything else?

Well, keep in mind the war sprung up suddenly. Before that, most Cybertronians having guns plastered on their hood would be like you or me walking down the street with a half-dozen pistols strapped to our torso. Maybe technically legal, maybe, but you'd grab attention and make everyone instantly cautious.
Once the war started, depending on the storyline, the do have vehicle weapons, even the guys like Bumblebee (just play the WFC or FOC games, everyone's got vehicle weapons).
And "rocket thrusters" are likely energy-intensive; one of the hallmarks of the war as it progresses is the dwindling energy supply. Energon is their blood, their food, their fuel, their ammo....it's basically everything for them. As they have to conserve more carefully, I'd wager "excessive mods" are looked down upon.
Before the war, why would you need rocket boosters? Driving around is already fast enough, isn't it?

It just gets worse when you realize that lots of transformers are helpless in vehicle mode. The vast majority of autobots can't do much more then say open a car door and swing it at someone. Now some autobots, like Grapple who can transform into a crane, do have useful alt modes, as do many decepticons. But most are both helpless and useless. Now again this is done for disguise, but if your not 'in disguise' then why not have a useful alt mode? Classic G1 Ironhide would sure be more useful as a 'van' if he had a cannon to fire his liquids too...

Well, a lot of that comes from G1, or stories that go directly from it. Comics set post-G1 will keep the momentum of their forms because otherwise people would be fussing about wacky new forms!
Again, in WFC/FOC (an excellent set of games with an excellent story), vehicle modes have pop-out weapons.
Even that aside, vehicle modes for many Cybertronians aren't "battle form". They're "point A to point B" form. If they need to fight, they switch to robot mode, which gives them handy things like "arms" and "various weapons" and "the ability to crouch behind cover and return fire".

And the lazy writers don't want to do too many alt alt modes, both as it's too much work, but also as they want to keep the characters recognizable. Though this leads to some odd(and stupid) things like ''oh look at the yellow Camaro 'hiding in disguise' on Mars, gosh I wonder where Bumblebee is?

I think you're a little harsh after a point.
I mean, are you working on a comic book with a deadline, having to draw everyone from scratch? I can understand why they fall back to a set pallet of
recognizable alt-modes. I mean, why waste time fiddling with adjusting a half-dozen small details of the outline, when it's a bit easier to adjust the color scheme (and then fans can speculate about the bots being a "team" or something).
Besides, it's not quite as same-y as you're suggesting, at least not from the IDW stuff I've seen of late, or the games, or TF: Prime. Really it's mostly G1, and some of the older comics, I'd wager, that do the sameness too harshly.

Would them stealing the plot twist of the end of Prime Season 1 be good or bad for the Unicron reveal? (It would retcon the comics set in that continuity, though...)

I thought it was a terrible plot twist in Prime, honestly. I feel like it really robbed something from Unicron.

[LaZodiac]

Would them stealing the plot twist of the end of Prime Season 1 be good or bad for the Unicron reveal? (It would retcon the comics set in that continuity, though...)

I don't know what that twist is, haven't watched Prime. I should, but I just feel like it'll leave a hole in my heart like Transformers Animated did

[Aotrs Commander]

Transformers are kinda stuck with humans.

1.All most all Transformers transform into a vehicle of some sort. And a vehicle is made to hold a driver and passengers. So, as vehicles, they have doors and cockpits and such. But without humans(or an equally sized alien race) then the transformers would not need to waste space. This is hugely true with most autobots, as the passenger space of a car takes up a huge amount of room.

This was one of the big problems with the 'robots only' comics. Why did they still transform into vehicles with doors and cockpits and such? It was almost as bad as ''oh it's millions of years before 1984, but everyone still transforms into Earth stuff as I'm a lazy writer and can't think up of new alt modes for like twenty characters.''

Untrue. The cartoon explained all the ones that started the series as being rebuilt from their Cybertronian forms and later characters with Earth forms were either built on Earth or introduced with no backstory on Earth.

In the One True Continuity (i.e. the Marvel UK comic run of the 1980s), the Earthern forms of the Transformers were by and large something that were always explained when they left Cybertron; those Transformers not created on Earth generally (but not always) had their alt-modes surgically altered (because it wasn't something they could do on the fly as in later continuties, e.g. the movies) to Earth-compatible ones (often off-screen), and whenever you saw them in pre-series flashbacks - or before they'd come to Earth - their vehicle modes were 100% Cybertronian (though, granted, close to the character's Earth (i.e. toy!) form so as to recognisable, for obvious reasons.)

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Pictured, Cybertronian vehicle modes of Seaspray, Poweglide (with Blaster dangling beneath, Beachcomber, Cosmos and Warpath, just prior to them arriving on Earth in the 1980s (they hadn't been on the Ark when left four million years ago, and ended up on Earth due to a battle for the Decepticon Space Bridge.)

2.Robots in Disguise. A big, big part of the transformers is the disguise part.

Not really, not in the beginning. The "robots in disguise" tagline was more a Thing for the toy line at the time, than of the G1 continuity itself, especially in the comics. More recently, with stuff like IDW, more was made of it, but not really in G1, in either cartoon or comic.

In the comic, the "disguise" thing wasn't really very important at all, and usually the only time Transformers didn't recognise each other was when they actually hadn't met before. After that, they pretty much recognised each other in whatever form, because they weren't, y'know stupid. (Not even Grimlock and the Dinobots. Well, maybe Sludge...)

And the whole "transforming" thing was actually not over-emphasised. It was just something their race did, it wasn't their central focus. It was almost incidental (more so in the comics than the cartoon. Indeed, in the former, several major characters hardly ever transformed at all, e.g. Ratbat, Ultra Magnus, Thunderwing, who were only saw out if his pretender shell once.) It was about the characters and the war and not about the spectacle of transforming robots - and that was why, in my opinion, it still is the best continuity. (And why I find the Japanese continuation of G1 and later animation series unwatchable since it became so much more stilted and over-emphasised.) It is better, I think, when it's about the characters (who happen to be robots that transform) and the war they're fighting rather than being about Robots The Transform (and the war they happen to be fighting).

Not to mention as time when on, the increasing large number of transformers with flat-out undisguised alt-modes (Dinobots, Predacons, the Headmasters and their ilk that came from Cybertron, with Cybertronian alt forms.) Towards the end, neither side was bothering with subtle, generally. (E.g. the Underbase Saga!)

It just gets worse when you realize that lots of transformers are helpless in vehicle mode. The vast majority of autobots can't do much more then say open a car door and swing it at someone. Now some autobots, like Grapple who can transform into a crane, do have useful alt modes, as do many decepticons. But most are both helpless and useless. Now again this is done for disguise, but if your not 'in disguise' then why not have a useful alt mode? Classic G1 Ironhide would sure be more useful as a 'van' if he had a cannon to fire his liquids too...

Those transformers - mostly Autobots and mostly with ground-based vehicle forms, as the fliers and beast-forms of both sides tended to be armed somehow - that didn't have weapons tended not to fight in vehicle mode anyway and only used them for transit (as Trailbreaker once noted in the G1 cartoon, one of the major reasons was "it beat walking..."), or hiding from humans who didn't know better (until they would blow their cover by transforming and fighting of course! Mind you, it should be pointed out that in the comics, this was the Marvel U, so the intelligent and perception of the local populace was pretty low...!) Heck, aside from the beast/animal formed ones, even the ones with armed vehicle modes tended to spend more time fighting in robot mode anyway. Even in the cartoon.

[snoopy13a]

Can't the reason why transformers transform be answered cynically? Boys like toy cars and planes. They also like toy robots. Creating toy robots that can change into cars or planes was ingenious.

[Scowling Dragon]

Can't the reason why transformers transform be answered cynically? Boys like toy cars and planes. They also like toy robots. Creating toy robots that can change into cars or planes was ingenious.

And then make them aliens.

Thats like, a money suoernova.

[Dr.Epic]

Transformers are kinda stuck with humans.

They're stuck with humans, not human characters. There's a big difference.

1.All most all Transformers transform into a vehicle of some sort. And a vehicle is made to hold a driver and passengers. So, as vehicles, they have doors and cockpits and such. But without humans(or an equally sized alien race) then the transformers would not need to waste space. This is hugely true with most autobots, as the passenger space of a car takes up a huge amount of room.

This was one of the big problems with the 'robots only' comics. Why did they still transform into vehicles with doors and cockpits and such? It was almost as bad as ''oh it's millions of years before 1984, but everyone still transforms into Earth stuff as I'm a lazy writer and can't think up of new alt modes for like twenty characters.''

And it's just kinda odd that transformers just turn into 'car things' or 'plane things', but not really cars or planes.

That doesn't mean people have to drive them or even that we need human characters. They turn into cars, but they don't need people to pilot themselves. That'd be like saying humans can ride a horse so that means a horse can only function (that is walk or gallop) without a person riding them.

2.Robots in Disguise. A big, big part of the transformers is the disguise part. And without humans, and the backdrop of Earth, you can't really get the 'disguise' part. Space is big and mostly empty, so unless all the transformers alt modes are just rocks, they can't really hide 'out there'. And they don't really 'disguise' from each other on Cybertron as..well...the planet is full of transformers. The only place a transformer can hide in disguise is some place like Earth. An autobot that looks like a car can sure blend in with other cars and fool both humans and decepticons. So you need humans and Earth.

Again, you need humans. You still don't need human characters. There's a difference between a human in the scene and a human character. A character is a major role in the story with describable traits. If you're gonna have humans, just keep them in the background. Don't make them characters. And if you really feel the need to have human characters, just have like 3 max, and focus on the humans. Don't have half the movie be about a human character going to college or getting a job. If the films were called "Shia LaBeouf acts like an annoying jerk with unfunny comedy for most of the movie and maybe later there are some robots," I wouldn't be so mad.

Look at the X-Men films. You know who are the main characters in those films: the X-Men, the mutants, the title characters. It focuses on them. There are human (by which I mean non-mutant human) characters but there are only like 1-2 per film, and they're background characters.

[Parra]

Can't the reason why transformers transform be answered cynically? Boys like toy cars and planes. They also like toy robots. Creating toy robots that can change into cars or planes was ingenious.

Was it not explained somewhere that back on Cybertron the Autobots were mostly basically builder & utility workers so they transformed into car & trucks and the Decepticons were more warriors so transformed into tanks & planes?

and that the War started because the Warriors (led by Megatron) wanted to take charge and the workers (led By Optimus) resisted

[t209]

Do you wonder if Michael Bay's only good thing is turning Megatron from Luger to a spaceship? I mean the gun sounds stupid, especially the decepticon holding it is a backstabbing Starscream.

[Aotrs Commander]

Do you wonder if Michael Bay's only good thing is turning Megatron from Luger to a spaceship? I mean the gun sounds stupid, especially the decepticon holding it is a backstabbing Starscream.

Well, if might have been if not for the fact that Megatron had been a tank in Generation 2, which had made a bit more sense...

So, even that wasn't a new idea.

(And of course, that's not counting Beast War's Megatron the Second...)



By-the-by, speaking of Decepticon leaders and alt-gun modes, in the early days of the UK comic run, one reader wrote to the letters page, at that time managed by Grimlock (issue 98 I think... (yes, I am that sad...)), commenting on the fact all the Deception leaders (at the time) were all guns; Megatron, Shockwave, Galvatron and the recently introduced Lord Straxus (who transformed into a flying gun.) The reader asked, where it was all going to end?

Grimlock replied "With a bang perhaps."

I remember that so clearly because the first time I read it had me in hysterics. (Deadpan humour was a novelty at about ten...) This is also part of the reason Grimlock is Best Autobot Dinobot.

[snoopy13a]

Was it not explained somewhere that back on Cybertron the Autobots were mostly basically builder & utility workers so they transformed into car & trucks and the Decepticons were more warriors so transformed into tanks & planes?

and that the War started because the Warriors (led by Megatron) wanted to take charge and the workers (led By Optimus) resisted

I have no idea; I stopped being a Transformers fan around 1988 or so. I only had one of the "newer" toys--Blurr with a smaller transformer as a gun. The toys were kind of cheaply made and they had lots of little pieces--the planes, for example, did not need the tiny removable front wheels (I tried to fit that into the cockpit) and their removable fists and bombs were bound to be lost. Essentially all of mine broke. My Jazz literally fell apart. Windcharger was my favorite Transformer because he was the first one I got.

[Mando Knight]

I don't know what that twist is, haven't watched Prime. I should, but I just feel like it'll leave a hole in my heart like Transformers Animated did

Well, you should. I won't spoil the twist, but Unicron is pretty menacing.

[Starbuck_II]

SC makes it even better, but The Rock is the best example of what you get when Nicholas Cage actually puts effort into his role.

What about the Wickerman he punches a girl while he is in bear costume and screams about bees. Best parts of the movie

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sadly the only good parts

Fall of Cybertron the movie (based on the video game) would be awesome.
Espcially Grimlock...heck, just do the movie about what happens to Grimlock after the ending of the game.

Maybe we can get Metroplex and Tetroplex in the next one? Gigantic robot cage fight!

[LaZodiac]

Well, you should. I won't spoil the twist, but Unicron is pretty menacing.

Well, Unicron is TEH SATAN, I imagine he would be. I'll see if I can, then.

[Mando Knight]

Well, Unicron is TEH SATAN, I imagine he would be. I'll see if I can, then.

Also, Frank Welker returns to voice Megatron, tailoring it to make a counterpart to Cullen's Prime. And Blum voices Starscream, who is actually surprisingly competent for a two-faced backstabbing sycophant (pay no heed to the oxymoron... it's just who Starscream is). (Also amusingly, Transformers doesn't appear in the Western Animation folder in that article. No, it's so Starscream-ridden that it gets its own folder.)

[LaZodiac]

Also, Frank Welker returns to voice Megatron, tailoring it to make a counterpart to Cullen's Prime. And Blum voices Starscream, who is actually surprisingly competent for a two-faced backstabbing sycophant (pay no heed to the oxymoron... it's just who Starscream is). (Also amusingly, Transformers doesn't appear in the Western Animation folder in that article. No, it's so Starscream-ridden that it gets its own folder.)

That...really does sound awesome.

[Mando Knight]

Also, the kids are not annoyingly annoying. They're still kids, so they do stupid things, but then that usually causes problems for them as expected. They're also useful, though, since Decepticons always seem to underestimate anyone that's under five meters tall...

[Zarrgon]

and whenever you saw them in pre-series flashbacks - or before they'd come to Earth - their vehicle modes were 100% Cybertronian (though, granted, close to the character's Earth (i.e. toy!) form so as to recognisable, for obvious reasons.)

Oh....

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Pictured, Cybertronian vehicle modes of Optimus Prime's Cybertronian truck mode, along with Dogfight Cybertronian Grumman X-29, Override a Cybertronian Earth motorcycle and Backstreet Cybertronian Porsche 962

Not really, not in the beginning. The "robots in disguise" tagline was more a Thing for the toy line at the time, than of the G1 continuity itself,

Lets see what were the first three words after ''Transformers'' in that Transformers song....that's right they were ''robot's in disguise''. And really, what about the first half of your Trailbreaker quote(that was said by Hound, I think). When asked ''why do you transform?'' the first answer was ''disguise.''

And the whole "transforming" thing was actually not over-emphasised. It was just something their race did, it wasn't their central focus.

Odd you'd say a race called the Transformers were not about transforming.


But back to the point of the Transformers needing humans.....what about G.I. Joe? I have a couple of the combined comics and they are great.

[Devonix]

Was it not explained somewhere that back on Cybertron the Autobots were mostly basically builder & utility workers so they transformed into car & trucks and the Decepticons were more warriors so transformed into tanks & planes?

and that the War started because the Warriors (led by Megatron) wanted to take charge and the workers (led By Optimus) resisted

that's the cartoon continuity. In the 80s comics Dreamwave comics, and Current comics it was far different.

Current comics have it that the Decepticons started up as a political movement against the oppresive regime of the Cybertronian Elite. Megatron was a miner turned gladiator turned freedom fighter. Basically the former leaders of Cybertron were almost as evil as Megatron later turned out to be.

Both the Autobots and Decepticons were grassroots organizations that came up through the public.

[Starwulf]

• Planet of the Apes
• The Italian Job
• The Happening

I enjoyed two out of three of those, and the third I've never seen.

[Devonix]

that's the cartoon continuity. In the 80s comics Dreamwave comics, and Current comics it was far different.

Current comics have it that the Decepticons started up as a political movement against the oppresive regime of the Cybertronian Elite. Megatron was a miner turned gladiator turned freedom fighter. Basically the former leaders of Cybertron were almost as evil as Megatron later turned out to be.

Both the Autobots and Decepticons were grassroots organizations that came up through the public.

Oh and the Decepticons being the oppressed underclass is also their origin for the games and Transformers Prime.

[Parra]

that's the cartoon continuity. In the 80s comics Dreamwave comics, and Current comics it was far different.

Current comics have it that the Decepticons started up as a political movement against the oppresive regime of the Cybertronian Elite. Megatron was a miner turned gladiator turned freedom fighter. Basically the former leaders of Cybertron were almost as evil as Megatron later turned out to be.

Both the Autobots and Decepticons were grassroots organizations that came up through the public.

that seems somewhat.... I dunno, lame?

[Aotrs Commander]

Oh....

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Pictured, Cybertronian vehicle modes of Optimus Prime's Cybertronian truck mode, along with Dogfight Cybertronian Grumman X-29, Override a Cybertronian Earth motorcycle and Backstreet Cybertronian Porsche 962

I remembered Prime being in Cybertronian form but I'd thought the other three were as well. Okay, they did miss a few sometimes. (They were called the Dumb Stubbies for a reason...!) Well, at least it's one out of four that time...? ... Okay, yeah, they bogged that. Especially considering that was a flashback. We should retroactively VVH the Dumb Stubbies. (Of course, either Grimlock or Dreadwind (not sure which one was in charge of the letters page at the time) probably already did, since it was quite difficult to make mistakes that were not picked up by sharp-eyed kids...

Lets see what were the first three words after ''Transformers'' in that Transformers song....that's right they were ''robot's in disguise''. And really, what about the first half of your Trailbreaker quote(that was said by Hound, I think). When asked ''why do you transform?'' the first answer was ''disguise.''

Odd you'd say a race called the Transformers were not about transforming.

But it wasn't really about them being disguised (like it was in say, the more recent Inflitration). They were really only hiding from the humans (and, frankly, they did a pretty terrible job of that); really all their alt-mode vehicles did was allow them to drive between battles and (sometimes!) not attract attention from the humans. They might have said it was about disguise, but in practise, it kinda wasn't most of the time.

Unless you're talking about the Dinobots, or the Predacons, or the Seacons, of the Headmasters/Targetmasters, the Pretenders to a larger extent (and only then the Decepticons who pretended to be monsters and not giant humans...) who were never disguised, despite being in Earth-based forms (because there ain't no disguising a 20-odd foor tall metal lion!)

Transforming may have been the initial hook, but even in the cartoon, it wasn't something that was very often important to the story; in most episodes, the Autobots only ever transformed to drive to fight the Decepticons. Nearly all the actually action took place in robot mode. As I said, there were a significant number of characters that never transformed at all in the comics, or only did so on a fraction of their appearances.

Heck, the best stories (e.g., some of my favourites, City of Fear, the Underbase Saga, and the Autobot Code) were good because they were good stories (or funny, in the case of the latter) first, which happened to be about robots that transformed into vehicles.

(Note that in all three, humans are either absent completely, or in a very minimal supporting role.)

This is not to say it wasn't important, but not as relatively important as the events that were going on. The difference is in the emphasis.

Okay, example of what I'm getting at. The most obvious example is the US cartoon verses the Japanese ones; transforming in the G1 cartoon is very quick and over and done with, done naturally (as it is in say, Prime, as well), whereas in stuff like Armada and whatnot, it (from what little I've seen of them) could be much longer, lingering shots, showing every bit of the transformation in stock footage. (Also, Robots in Disguise, shouting the name of your guns as you fire them? Really? Idiots.) Making the transformations themselves an Event, in the same way as, say Centurion's weapon system beaming; which I really didn't think it should be, because for Transformers, transforming is literally more natural than breathing.

I am being vaguely clear on what I mean, or just rambling nonsensically here?

But back to the point of the Transformers needing humans.....what about G.I. Joe? I have a couple of the combined comics and they are great.

The Marvel crossovers were fairly solid stories, but nothing to write home about. The most recent one done by IDW where they'd blended the two storylines together, I was not interested in at all.

I stand by my statement that Transformers don't need human characters. Having them on Earth, with humans as a backdrop, with maybe some minor supporting human characters is fine, but their definately doesn't need to be human protagonists in Transformers. In the same way there doesn't in, say MLP or Shadow Raiders or the Penguins of Madagasgar. Good characters are important to a good story, and "good characters" does not mean "must be human.") Especially if said human characters start to take the focus off the Transformers as they did in Bayformers.

Characters like Sari (from Animated, who to my astonishment, I actually liked how they implemented her (long before her late reveal)) are fine, and the role the humans played in G1 comics was fine (there were quite a few recurring human characters there, but the critical factor was, they weren't central to all the stories - some of them, yes, but no more than for any other character.) I rather think the three in Prime was about two too many, but they are at least less painfully inserted than in some, and they are still better than Spike and Chip from the G1 cartoon. (Though even they became less important and more supporting cast as the series went on.)

Was it not explained somewhere that back on Cybertron the Autobots were mostly basically builder & utility workers so they transformed into car & trucks and the Decepticons were more warriors so transformed into tanks & planes?

and that the War started because the Warriors (led by Megatron) wanted to take charge and the workers (led By Optimus) resisted

They didn't really touch on it much in the Marvel continuity. The war had been going on for millions of years at that point (I'll just pause here to roll my eyes a bit, as the casual throwing around of "millions of years" has almost always bothered me, especially when you look at the chaos the Transformers cause to each other in only four or five...), nobody cared much about how it started.

There were a few tantilising hints in the annuals (the Megaton-the-gladiator thing originated first from there), but most of the time, the war was already raging by the time we got to see it.

[Devonix]

Transformer and human interactions can be done well. It's just that you need a reason. One of my all time favorite scenes in the original Transformers debut episodes was a scene where Spike is writing in his journal about these strange new creatures he'd just encountered. He talks about what this means for humanity, as well as how like humans they are. and in the background the Autobots are working and the scene is About them even though Spike is the one speaking.

It gives us insight into both him as well as them.


As for Transformers Origins there are many and no one is more valid than the other

Their first origin has nothing to do with human life at all.

Marvel G1 origin had them be created as Primus as a warrior race to combat Unicron

Then we had the G1 cartoon Origin where they were Military and worker hardware who rose up against their masters

Transformers Cybertron and the Dreamwave comics brought in the 13 primes history.

Something which has stuck around So there is no one true history to the characters unless you state which universe you are setting it in.

[Kitten Champion]

I have a simple rule, humans in Transformers movies should be equivalent to humans in Japanese Godzilla movies.

Baffled scientists, an ineffectual military, and the masses running in terror. If you must include a human to sympathize with, they're inevitably children.

[Aotrs Commander]

I have a simple rule, humans in Transformers movies should be equivalent to humans in Japanese Godzilla movies.

Baffled scientists, an ineffectual military, and the masses running in terror. If you must include a human to sympathize with, they're inevitably children.

I agree with you in principle, though I wouldn't go so far as to say they have to be children (and I'd rather they didn't, honestly; I never liked that idea, even as a child myself).

Again, with my unashamed bias towards the Uk comic showing, they did it quite well. They used children once or twice, but the "Spike" expy of the comics (Buster - Spike, his older brother, showed up much later, and they even made a crack about him saying he was glad he wasn't just a cartoon character in the editorial) was the largest recurring character, mostly because he kept getting caught up in events. But they also had the long-suffering GB Blackrock, an industrial mogul who became sort of an ally to the Autobots.

There also Circuit Breaker, who after being electocuted by Shockwave while defending one GB Blackrock's oil rigs, ended up (in true Marvel fashion) with a pathological grudge against all Transformers. (She was actually only a direct threat to the Autobots, because they wouldn't hit her back, whereas the Decepticons would have shot her without a second thought.)

Or Donny Finkleburg, an out-of-work actor the government basically hired to pretend he was the Robot Master, because somehow they thought having giant transforming robots under the control of a lone manica was less frightening than having two races of giant alien robots. He ended up working - albiet a little unwillingly - for the Decepticons for a brief time. He also is most notable for being the instigatior for explaining what (puttup), which Soundwave had always punctated the mention of any Autobot (puttup) with on the letters page, actually meant. That had been driving us readers all mad for ages...

[Kitten Champion]

I'm fine with whatever, really. It doesn't matter. Whatever my hopes and dreams are, Micheal Bay will find a way to bash them like a baby seal. The only thing I'm really thankful for was that I only ever watched Beast Wars and had very little personal investment in the franchise as a whole.

As for children, I've very little fondness for child actors in movies generally. It doesn't matter in Godzilla since humans are back-dropping and can't do much of anything anyways.

[Darth Xena]

I stand by my statement that Transformers don't need human characters. Having them on Earth, with humans as a backdrop, with maybe some minor supporting human characters is fine, but their definately doesn't need to be human protagonists in Transformers. In the same way there doesn't in, say MLP or Shadow Raiders or the Penguins of Madagasgar.

I don't think an all 'animated' Transformers movie would work. You have the basic Hollywood problem of 'animated cartoon='kids stiff'. You will never, ever get the Old Guys that run Hollywood to ever do mass market 'summer blockbuster' adult animated movie. And even if they make a half way decent animated movie, it will be over shadowed and ruined by the tons of kids stuff the must add to it. Just try and picture an animated movie without say a 'big fat jolly character' or a 'little sneaky jokey character' or basically any character that acts like a 10 year old.

[Devonix]

I don't think an all 'animated' Transformers movie would work. You have the basic Hollywood problem of 'animated cartoon='kids stiff'. You will never, ever get the Old Guys that run Hollywood to ever do mass market 'summer blockbuster' adult animated movie. And even if they make a half way decent animated movie, it will be over shadowed and ruined by the tons of kids stuff the must add to it. Just try and picture an animated movie without say a 'big fat jolly character' or a 'little sneaky jokey character' or basically any character that acts like a 10 year old.

James Cameron's Avatar. I didn't like it as much as most did, but that was pretty much a full CG movie the ammount of live action paled in comparison to the ammount of CG scenes.

Basically a Proper Transformers movie would treat the Transformers the same that that movie treated the Navi.

[Fragenstein]

I stand by my statement that Transformers don't need human characters.

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[t209]

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I think they forgot about NEST, which is similiar to a group from a franchise that Hasbro ruined before 2k's "Xenoshock").