Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 75
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    DISCLAIMER: I don't like GURPS, but I still recognize it to be a well-crafted and powerful system. I just personally don't enjoy it, or systems like it.

    GURPS is advertised as a universal system that can run any genre or play-style equally well. This is not true. What the advertisers mean is that it can work with any setting. However, the system is rooted to a very specific play-style: that of stimulationisim.

    The combat system is very precise and blow-for-blow. Each turn lasts one second. There is a rule for everything. Everything is accounted for. I hate this.

    (See also my rant about combat, hit points, and called shots. It explains in much greater detail why I don't like the combat in GURPS.)

    The GURPS system is so detailed, fleshed out, and comprehensive that there is little room to breath. There are rules for how many inches a character can jump, and how quickly they can think. This means that far too much time will be spent flipping through books, and there is little room for narrative freedom. Of course, one could simply ignore these rules, but at that point they would be better off playing something else.

    Character creation in GURPS is a nightmare. It takes a very, very long time. Some derived statistics require a calculator to determine. The whole thing feels like it was designed by engineers, who were far more concerned with making an option for every possible scenario than making anything user-friendly.

    One does not create a flexible system by making a rule or option for everything. They make a flexible system by including good advice and guidelines for making these rules and options on the fly. This is a far more powerful tool than artificially created comprehensiveness.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    GURPS, and by extension FATAL, are both games for people who prefer to see what hell their dice rolls unleash with a character they spent a week writing up.

    The appeal of the systems are very much the math and comprehensiveness of what is there. 3.5 succeeds in providing an efficient system, but it is also heavily flawed and there are things not covered in the game. 4th provides an even more efficient system, but at the cost of alot of what made 3.5 3.5 (the coke Variety of what you can do and specialize in).

    Basically, each system has its own niche for appeal.
    4th provides a much more stable and balanced game
    3.5 gives alot of options without being itself absurdly complex
    GURPS gives an extremely rewarding experience for alot of effort, but there is alot of flexibility in it
    Fatal even moreso


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jindra34's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    I'm going to make a couple of counter points:
    1. Yes GURPS is a system anchored in reality and physics. Its not actually simulationist its just that they actually used standards regularly.

    2. Second by second actually makes the most sense out of all the fixed interval units of time, namely because there are two types of actions taken in a fight; strike and reset (takes about 1 second), and full out drives (depending on the weapon and people anywhere from 3-30 seconds before it break apart).

    3. Narrative freedom doesn't come from freedom of resolution it comes from freedom of choice. Outside of dis-advantages no rule in GURPS comes close to regularly denying choice of action.

    4. Character creation being a nightmare is rarely the case after the first few times. And the only thing that requires a calculator has the common numbers listed in a nice table. The entire statement is mostly an exaggeration (except for the line about engineers, the line editor is actually a physicist.)
    avatar by Three Shades
    Official Founder of the Defenders of the Kitsune, Nekomata, Tengu, Tanookie and Mujina. Please leave the Real World at the door.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TuggyNE's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Recovering from RSI
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    GURPS, and by extension FATAL, are both games for people who prefer to see what hell their dice rolls unleash with a character they spent a week writing up.

    The appeal of the systems are very much the math and comprehensiveness of what is there. 3.5 succeeds in providing an efficient system, but it is also heavily flawed and there are things not covered in the game. 4th provides an even more efficient system, but at the cost of alot of what made 3.5 3.5 (the coke Variety of what you can do and specialize in).

    Basically, each system has its own niche for appeal.
    4th provides a much more stable and balanced game
    3.5 gives alot of options without being itself absurdly complex
    GURPS gives an extremely rewarding experience for alot of effort, but there is alot of flexibility in it
    Fatal even moreso
    I'm not entirely sure there's any great benefit to likening any half-decent system to FATAL (or deadEarth, for that matter); that's a level of hyperbole that may be counterproductive to the discussion.

    (Also now I'm interested to see what alot of effort looks like... a big shaggy thing made out of horrendous paperwork and sweat?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" Use of gray may indicate nitpicking Green is sincerity

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    I play heroes, and peolpe say thats math comple, but it is extremly easy. I would like to try gurps, but my group uses heroes, so I use heroes. Like has been said, Grups is for people who like (and have time for) endless hours of character building and tweaking (I have a book of heroes characters, I'm that sort of person, I do it for fun, the only reason the GM does't steel them for PC's is his happyness to fudge due to the groups powergammer), if the game is not for you, don't play it, it is that simple, no need to fill the boards with stuff like this.

    Which make me ask why I posted...
    Spoiler: Quotes!
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Hunter's Recruitment
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Saying no to a Sun's Hunter is as close as it gets to an invitation to have your place destroyed by them)\
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


    Really sorry about my absence. I should be back now.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    I'm not entirely sure there's any great benefit to likening any half-decent system to FATAL (or deadEarth, for that matter); that's a level of hyperbole that may be counterproductive to the discussion.

    (Also now I'm interested to see what alot of effort looks like... a big shaggy thing made out of horrendous paperwork and sweat?)
    Detail is the more important part. the little bit i read about FATAL made me think of "the game for People who thought GURPS is too simple"


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    What I didn't like about GURPS long, long ago last century when I played it was the stagnation of the characters in terms of game mechanics. Your character does the same thing over and over every adventure, never learning anything new but a skill or two will improve by one. I learned GURPS the same time I learned 2E D&D. When I experienced my D&D characters always improving and being able to do new and wondrous things as the campaign played on due to leveling, GURPS became boring. GURPS Supers had a saving grace in that at least the character could do interesting things from the start, but they were still the same thing game after game after game.

    I understand that today the rules have evolved since then. You earn experience and can learn new and wondrous things more significant than one skill improved to succeeding on a 15 or less from 14 or less. Not having read these new rules I can't comment specifically, but its reputation precedes it. 3E/Pathfinder offers the variety of wondrous things I like that wouldn't have me give new GURPS a try.
    Last edited by navar100; 2012-11-12 at 08:58 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Darth Stabber's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    It may have something to do with me being lazy, but in my general experience M&M does what I want from gurps and hero with 1/10th the paper work and learning curve (learning curve reduction assumes familiarity with d&d3.5, though even without that it's still easier than gurps). M&M is certainly powergamable, but what system isn't. The bottom line is that it is great for what it is designed for (comic book superheroes), and is still pretty good doing what it's not designed for. My problem with gurps, is that in trying to be usable for anything, it becomes good at nothing, like a swiss army knife with too many tools, it just gets unwieldy.
    My homebrew
    Official spokesman of the totemist class for gestalt (and proud supporter of parenthetical asides (especially nested ones)). Author of a gestalt handbook
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Did you just put a gear shift on a lightsaber?
    Redneck laser swords only work in manual.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    What I really take issue with is the way GURPS goes about providing flexibility. If I were to make a universal system, I would have minimal rules and content, but provide really good advice and guidelines for coming up with rulings and content on the fly, and a system that was simple enough to make it easy. This would be more flexible, user-friendly, and well-paced.

    Making a rule or option for every possible scenario, along with making a system that is quite complex by default, is like doing this artificially. Its better in some scenarios, but is usually much worse, at least in my opinion.

    I also like combat to be much more abstract and free-flowing, with loosely defined time.
    Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-11-12 at 10:06 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Banned
     
    ThiagoMartell's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    There are several rules for a less realist GURPS game. In fact, the basic set makes it pretty clear that the only rules that are always on fit on a single page.
    You seem to misundertand what simulationist means. It doesn't mean it's the same as reality, it just means the rules reflect the more closely possible what happens in the setting. This means that in a kung-fu setting, ripping your shirt might grant you Damage Reduction. It also means that in that same kung-fu setting, it's impossible to get more than one shot out of a gun before being disarmed or it jamming. Those are both actual rules from GURPS. It's a pick and choose system.
    You might not like it for being slow, fine. But it is truly generic.

    Nevermind, you don't like GURPS, good for you. None of my business.
    Last edited by ThiagoMartell; 2012-11-12 at 10:30 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Stabber View Post
    It may have something to do with me being lazy, but in my general experience M&M does what I want from gurps and hero with 1/10th the paper work and learning curve (learning curve reduction assumes familiarity with d&d3.5, though even without that it's still easier than gurps). M&M is certainly powergamable, but what system isn't. The bottom line is that it is great for what it is designed for (comic book superheroes), and is still pretty good doing what it's not designed for. My problem with gurps, is that in trying to be usable for anything, it becomes good at nothing, like a swiss army knife with too many tools, it just gets unwieldy.
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    I personally like GURPS, though only as a player. I find the detail is okay from that side, and when one looks at everything other than the mechanics GURPS is head and shoulders above almost everything else.

    That said: Your rant does point to wanting a generic system that is looser, which I'm going to take as an opportunity: Take a look at Fudge. You'll probably like it.
    Fudge Assistant in the Playground.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Gurps is capable of simulating, in exacting, precise detail, the entire set of insane, over the top moves of the most wushu kung fu or surreal or unreal fantasy setting.

    Of course, it entirely misses the point of insane wushu and other over the top settings by parsing each and every capability into a tiny, precisely-described detail, and then simulating each action in such an exacting way.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Chainsaw Hobbit's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Avatar by Ceika
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Gurps is capable of simulating, in exacting, precise detail, the entire set of insane, over the top moves of the most wushu kung fu or surreal or unreal fantasy setting.

    Of course, it entirely misses the point of insane wushu and other over the top settings by parsing each and every capability into a tiny, precisely-described detail, and then simulating each action in such an exacting way.
    Yes. Exactly.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    erikun's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Given your description of what you don't like in GURPS, I might suggest giving HeroQuest a look. It is very simple and non-detail oriented, very easy to create a character (with multiple methods), and is so focused on generating the narrative that is recommends making challanges harder/easier depending on recent successes of the party. It also has a number of rules that make the "create your own skills" type of system actually work, and combat is handled well and acts much like any other extended skill session.
    Thank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
    The full set is here.
    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    There are no bad ideas, just bad execution.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
    from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread



    A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
    original image

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    . . . The whole thing feels like it was designed by engineers, who were far more concerned with making an option for every possible scenario than making anything user-friendly.
    Hehe, "Designed by engineers"! -- maybe that is why I like it! :-)

    For me, I found that the trick to GURPS is not to let yourself become too rule bound -- 1 second combat rounds make no sense if you are using muskets that take 20 seconds to reload. You can find suggestions that say to use long combat rounds. Gradually, I began to get a feel for how the rules can be modified without it feeling awkward.

    This haphazard approach to the rules -- use some, don't use others, change that one a bit, decide to apply the "rule of 16", etc., etc. -- some people don't like, I guess because they like to know *all* the rules.

    But to each his own! :-) Sounds like you just wanted to vent a bit. I get that way with D&D all the time: I hate how character creation basically never ends (through leveling up), I don't like my characters to be pigeonholed into particular archetypes, the fact that attributes have dead spaces in their numbers offends my engineering sensibilities, etc.

    I will however take exception with this characterization --
    along with making a system that is quite complex by default
    From a player's perspective: You roll three dice and compare that to a number, and report the result to the GM. --EDIT-- Complex compared to what? From the player's perspective or the GM's?

    I think I understand what you are saying, but it should be phrased differently. I don't find character creation in GURPS anymore difficult than D&D, in fact I find it easier -- although admittedly that might be a lack of experience with D&D, or some decent software for GURPS character creation.

    Having said all that: I still pine for WEG Stars Wars system. *sigh* That was a nice system. They did make some more open versions of it (the D6 system) but I never played them.
    Last edited by fusilier; 2012-11-13 at 02:50 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Jerthanis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Tempe, Arizona
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by navar100 View Post
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    There's a canyon in my state about as big as the difference between powergaming and summoning a million full strength, identical copies of yourself.

    Personally, what I mostly hate about GURPS is disadvantages. It exploits human psychology to make otherwise good RPers into concept-sacrificing munchkins. The suggested baseline is that you can get half the normal starting Character Point value back in defect points, which could put a high exceptional character (Secret Agent, Olympic athlete, world renowned Scientist) into low-superhero territory. It means a character who takes no disadvantages practically cannot compete with his neighbor who does.

    Even if you rule that taking disadvantages grants no points, simply having a list of disadvantages for players to peruse as they're finishing up their concept with the hint of a suggestion that they should work a couple of them into their characters to 'round them out' or 'add depth' makes people receptive to adding flaws they think are interesting at the time, even if it has nothing to do with the character.

    I've seen good, trusted players who entered Disadvantages chapters with "Ninja who works for the Government" and left with "One Armed, short sighted, Pig-ugly, Alcoholic Cyborg-Ninja whose every waking moment and thought is brainwashed into him by the Government, which if it found out that he was a Cyborg would have him executed immediately and who has a sick and dependent daughter whose medical bills have put him in debt."

    If I ever run an RPG with a Disadvantages chapter where it lists potential defects in this way, no joke, I will physically rip it out of the book.

    That said, I'd probably run GURPS with the disadvantages chapter torn out, as long as what I was playing was a highly lethal, medium-low power semirealistic fantasy game with low or no advancement.
    A review of the best scifi/fantasy book you will have read, and a review of the even better sequel.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    You do your avatar proud

    Member #29 of the Tin-foil Hat Alliance

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    I played some GURPS Transhuman Space at a convention.

    All the complexity didn't seem to add anything.

    The following exchange totally killed it for me.

    Me: I'm going to try to land the ship
    GM: You need to roll at least a 10 to land the ship successfully.
    Me: *Roll* Add the modifiers... I only got an 8.
    GM: You land the ship successfully but it was a bit rubbish.
    Me: ...
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerthanis View Post
    Personally, what I mostly hate about GURPS is disadvantages. It exploits human psychology to make otherwise good RPers into concept-sacrificing munchkins. . . .
    Alright, I've got to admit that I've come across this more lately, and it bugs me. "No, you can't take megalomania! Not only does it specifically say that it's intended for evil NPC's, and you're supposed to be a body guard, how can I expect your character to fit in with the group?!"

    Part of my problem is, as GM, I don't want to have to deal with some of these combinations of disadvantages -- especially the mental ones. The GM should apply those disadvantages, and they should really be disadvantages -- but sometimes that can be frustrating, and just a distraction from the game in general (and I tend to run short, focused games). Not all players do this; some are actually really good at using disadvantages and coming up with inventive characters. I'll sometimes just avoid getting a full quota of disads if I don't like them, and not take the points. A good GURPS game isn't typically too strictly bound by raw point totals anyway -- there is sufficient specialization that lower point characters can play alongside higher ones, within a particular range of course.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Guy View Post
    The following exchange totally killed it for me.

    Me: I'm going to try to land the ship
    GM: You need to roll at least a 10 to land the ship successfully.
    Me: *Roll* Add the modifiers... I only got an 8.
    GM: You land the ship successfully but it was a bit rubbish.
    Me: ...
    I've seen this one, although to be fair not only in GURPS. It's something that seems to arise in RPGs with a highly defined and detailed skill system - skill rolls that are actually pointless, and/or excessive rolling for minimal results. Heck, I've even done it accidentally myself when GMing - it seems natural at the time to ask for a Perception check ... or two ... or three, and before you know it you wasted several minutes on something that didn't even matter, and didn't provide any bang for the buck.

    I like crunchy systems, but I want every piece of crunch to earn its keep by providing more choices, more strategy, more interesting results, or something - not just being there for the sake of completeness. And I like to keep in mind the principle of "What interesting thing happens if this roll fails? Nothing? Then don't roll it."
    Last edited by icefractal; 2012-11-13 at 06:12 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Reaper_Monkey's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No, that other place
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Guy View Post
    I played some GURPS Transhuman Space at a convention.

    All the complexity didn't seem to add anything.

    The following exchange totally killed it for me.

    Me: I'm going to try to land the ship
    GM: You need to roll at least a 10 to land the ship successfully.
    Me: *Roll* Add the modifiers... I only got an 8.
    GM: You land the ship successfully but it was a bit rubbish.
    Me: ...
    You actually roll low in GURPS, so 8 is a success if the target number was 10. Your margin of success was only 2 though, so it wasn't that great a success, so I guess saying it was a bit rubbish makes sense.

    Of cause, if you're jumping onto moving ships and similar, then GURPS has advantages like Luck and bought success rules specifically for over-the-top against the odds heroics - so even if you'd failed the roll nothing would've stopped you from dropping a few cp to succeed anyway (assuming the GM is using those rules).
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper_Monkey View Post
    You actually roll low in GURPS, so 8 is a success if the target number was 10.
    Clearly I've forgotten the exact nature of the roll. It was definitely a failure though.

    How does GURPS handle stakes?
    Last edited by Totally Guy; 2012-11-13 at 07:38 AM.
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Reaper_Monkey's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No, that other place
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerthanis View Post
    Personally, what I mostly hate about GURPS is disadvantages. It exploits human psychology to make otherwise good RPers into concept-sacrificing munchkins.
    I can see your argument, as I've heard it many times before. Ultimately what it comes down to is your answers to two questions: 1) Should negative physical or personality traits provide mechanical compensation? and 2) Should there be mechanical rules which help structure your characters behaviour, or is that solely the domain of how players choose to RP?

    GURPS says 'yes' to both, or at least the default rules say 'yes' - you can easily choose a suit of rules which actually changes one or both to a 'no', as GURPS does live up to the 'U'niversal element in granting lots and lots of optional rules to better suit different genres and play styles. Now I can see how some people wouldn't want 'yes' to be the answer to one or both of those questions, and I've seen people play D&D with houserules to change that systems default answers to 'yes' as they prefer it that way (or remove rules to change D&D's 'yes' to a 'no', because no-one can agree on how the alignments should be RPed).

    In general its a matter of taste in what you prefer, and a matter of GM vigilance in how you use the system or subsystems that you've choose to (as with much of GURPS actually). However I consider GURPS better in this regard because it gives you a ready made rule set, with guidance, and a whole host of toggle-able switches to better control that content (or turn it off entirely) - where as most other RPGs provide one rule (or no rule) and leave you to homebrew something different if its not to taste.

    In fact that last paragraph says everything about GURPS really, it allows you to play the game you want, with the rules you want, tweaked to taste - without having to make it yourself (although some assembly may be required). Every other rpg system I've touched I've found the need to throw out chunks of rules and patch on new house-rules, I've not had to do that with GURPS at all because there are pre-made optional rules that I can just enable and use.

    Either way, each to their own - but if you're sitting on the fence or haven't heard of GURPS before and want to take a look at it yourself - then do note that GURPS is very flexible in its rules and play styles, and even has a number of worked examples now (which simplify the setup of the world by presetting what rules are enabled, and speeds up character creation by providing templates which both provide quick options but also restrictions on how you make your character). Dungeon Fantasy probably being the most applicable to those with a taste of FRPGs, which forum goers here likely have, but Monster Hunters is a brand new example which is great if you love Buffy/Blade/Hellboy etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Guy View Post
    How does GURPS handle stakes?
    I'm sorry I don't understand your question, could you rephrase?
    Last edited by Reaper_Monkey; 2012-11-13 at 07:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DigoDragon's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    OP: While my personal stance is that GURPS is a fine system and I have used it often, I do believe you have valid points brought up. I'll even go on to say that I never use GURPS as it is written, but instead I water down the rules a bit to make it more flexible.
    Digo Dragon - Artist

    Quote Resume:
    Spoiler
    Show

    "For your astounding work in the field of punnery, you have been awarded one (1) internet." -Lix Lorn
    "Truly, there is nothing more terrifying than a DM with a sense of humour." -The Succubus
    "No pretty sure he thinks he's Digo Dragon." -Pinkie Pie
    "Digo, you're a liar and a scoundrel." -NeroGrimm


    Avatar by me - Ace Gambit!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Banned
     
    willpell's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    *snip*
    Did you just say something almost positive about FATAL? I think this is one for the Guiness book....

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Did you just say something almost positive about FATAL? I think this is one for the Guiness book....
    That isn't really something positive


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Banned
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Feb 2011

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    The reason players stock up on Disadvantages is perhaps the suggested starting value of 100 points is not enough. Biased I may be, but with GURPS characters not improving in their abilities as the game plays on I want to do "really kewl" stuff now. 100 points doesn't allow for that. That's why I liked GURPS Supers. We were given 500 points and the Supers book. I took Disadvantages out of habit by then but not because I needed the points. It was enough to take Gentleman's Code of Honor and such and be all virtue and goody-two shoes like a superhero is supposed to be. Those extra points just went into minor mundane advantage and skills. The 500 points was enough for the superheroic ability scores and powers.

    In D&D I like 1st level play. I'm okay with not having "really kewl" stuff now. It is fun leveling up and earning them. With 100 Points GURPS Fantasy, you don't get them now and never get them. Not even magic. You have to "waste" points on Seek spells that do diddly squat. Damage spells are only one die. To get more than one die of damage if you have to spend rounds doing nothing to build it up. I remember once casting Fireball. I spent three rounds doing nothing to get 3d6 damage. The monster was dead by then.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Friv's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    Detail is the more important part. the little bit i read about FATAL made me think of "the game for People who thought GURPS is too simple"
    Possibly you need to read more about FATAL. Or don't! Honestly, I advise don't!

    But a better description of it than the one that you posted might be "the game for socially-maladjusted misogynistic psychopaths who think GURPS is far too simple and not nearly random enough."
    Patchwork Magisters - Volume III is now available! You know, if you like that sort of thing.

    Which you do.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    What I love most about GURPS is that the designers actually care about reality.

    When they first wrote their table of weights for medieval weapons, they didn't try to balance the table or decide what made sense to them. They brought in a bunch of weapons and weighed them.

    That approach has an aesthetic appeal for me. If it doesn't appeal to you, then this isn't the game for you.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Reaper_Monkey's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No, that other place
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why I Strongly Dislike GURPS

    Quote Originally Posted by navar100 View Post
    100 points doesn't allow for that.
    This seems to be the root of your problem then - 100cp isn't a lot. But it was your GM that made you start with that amount, you could've started with 500cp for a fantasy game and still have it be fantasy (all be it very high powered, and with a culled list of options so that players are levelling sword skills rather than buying warp or similar with their cp).

    I took Disadvantages out of habit by then but not because I needed the points. It was enough to take Gentleman's Code of Honor and such and be all virtue and goody-two shoes like a superhero is supposed to be.
    This is exactly how you're meant to take disadvatages, although yes they do give you back some cp - you should not be taking them just so you can make your PC do what you want at a basic level, that is what your starting character points are for. If you're finding its not enough, then its time to reassess what genre you're playing (the GM might want a very 'mundane' and gritty game, where you don't come with three years military training yet - you're just a farmer who decided to go to war with a heavy bit of wood as a weapon), or ask them how come they're skimping on the cp.

    With 100 Points GURPS Fantasy, you don't get them now and never get them.
    This seems to be reflected in other peoples comments of "never improving", which again I don't understand as a reflection of the system (with its many possible rules) as its a reflection of your GM. The training rules may take forever to get any progress on a skill - but those are optional and not the only way to improve. Your GM should be handing out CP after every session (or every few sessions, depending) and this value should reflect successfulness of your missions/quests/etc but also be enough to fuel the expected rate of improvement (which for a fantasy game tends to be quite quick).

    Not even magic. You have to "waste" points on Seek spells that do diddly squat. Damage spells are only one die. To get more than one die of damage if you have to spend rounds doing nothing to build it up. I remember once casting Fireball. I spent three rounds doing nothing to get 3d6 damage. The monster was dead by then.
    There are many magic systems in GURPS, although I will agree that the 'main' one sucks for being a blaster. It just isn't intended to be a source of 'dps' and its a common pitfall for new players (especially ones with experience in MMOs these days). The best way to cope with this is using one of the other more flexible magic systems which allow more free-form spell casting, or better yet pre-build (by the GM) innate attacks for each of the various types of damage spells (as that advantage specially was designed to be a source of 'dps').

    Of cause all of this does require some GM knowledge of the system and its possible rules, although I dare say it shouldn't be too hard to notice when your players keep complaining they don't have enough cp to make a basic fighter or to improve at a rate they're happy with - and the solution to that is a very easy one (hand out more cp!).

    That said, I'll once again suggest Dungeon Fantasy (which starts with 250cp per character, which has some disadvantages already rolled into the templates) although the Wizard template is not a 'blaster' still (get the psionics book for that, the Mentalist in there is a very good blaster - so long as you don't mind saying hey to lovecraftian horrors from time to time). It does however come with rules for how much cp to hand out each session, and has loads of upgrade options which mimic 'levelling' except without need to wait for yourself to 'ding'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •