League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

**ex cathedra** · 2012-11-12, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)

League of Legends XL:
Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

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General
A General Guide to Support, by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups, by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking, by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader by Darth Mario

Specific Champions:
Be warned. These guides are, by and large, outdated. Some (if not much) of the information referenced in these guides has been made obsolete as a result of League's natural patch cycle. If you're looking for information on a champion, you'll have better luck at SoloMid.net or LolPro.com. Alternatively, ask the thread!
Riven 101, by Arbitrarity
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Rammus: Can't touch this, by Math_Mage
Twitch, by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel by Dogmantra
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TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.

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**McDouggal** · 2012-11-12, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)

*subs* and whines that my title didn't get picked

**Silverraptor** · 2012-11-12, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)

I get thee feeling the season will he put on hold for quite awhile.

**ex cathedra** · 2012-11-12, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)

thread names are super easy to change, if a few people decide that they preferred one of the other options (i counted myself as a vote for this'un, FWIW) i'd be happy to change it.

**TFT** · 2012-11-12, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)

I prefer this title, so I'll put a vote in it's direction.

Also, 1600s ad carries? 100x more competent then 1500s ad carries. But maybe that's just me.

**Qwertystop** · 2012-11-12, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)

I vote for a Gragas one just because of the numbering. Also because the next season will probably be out by Friday, making this title not really work.

**TechnOkami** · 2012-11-12, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Godskook

I agree. Thing is, directing your casual playerbase to play what's essentially a different game is not going to help. That's the conceptual equivalent of encouraging fans to play Cricket as a method of generating interest in Baseball. The 'really' casual players already understand so little about this game that allowing them to disconnect entirely from the pvp scene would make watching the Esports boring for them.

What does help is making the casual pvp experience enjoyable, and Riot has done *HUGE* things in that department, such as both the tribunal and honor system(has anyone else noticed how enjoyable matches have been lately? I mean, compared to what they were two years ago?). You can try to claim that Riot is ignoring its casual player, but that really doesn't hold any water when they've made big strides in one of the biggest issues the game had.

That made me laugh, so hard. Thanks for making my sickly day better.

**Chess435** · 2012-11-12, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)

Whoo, I've named 3 threads now!

**NineThePuma** · 2012-11-12, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)

Tribunal and the Honor system have helped, but you still get people who are complete and utter *******s over minor mistakes.

I also love how people who rant and rave over "always get stuck with noobs" and stuff, and fail to realize that it's because of that behavior.

**ChaosOS** · 2012-11-12, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)

Hecarim is soooo fun. Been playing him on Dominion, he's pretty tanky and pretty powerful. Also, amazing initation.

**MCerberus** · 2012-11-12, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)

So it turns out... Rengar + Zyra bot = death infinite.
Also RIP Heart of Gold. We shall bury you on Tiamat Tuesday.

**LordShotGun** · 2012-11-12, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)

Going back to the casual versus competitive argument I will go back to the first computer game that got me into programming. Warcraft 3.

Now in warcraft 3 I NEVER played the actual game. I had to cheat to beat even the campaign. I had a ton of difficulty beating even easy computers.

However!!! I did play thousands of hours (not an exaggeration considering the hours spent playing at high school on our lan) of custom game maps. Footman frenzy, DoTA, Risk, Coming of the Horde, Dark Deeds, Island Defense, Chibi's tower defense, elemental tower defense and so on and so forth.

Then I bought SC2 expecting exactly the same thing. Then they had the godawful arcade popularity system that eventually disgusted me enough that I stopped playing SC2 and haven't booted it up in months.

How did blizzard get my money? It certainly was not the core game. It was the support system for custom map games. League seems like the perfect game to start it's own custom map creator. We already have plenty of models and triggers and spells. They just need to give some amount of control over to the player base and they will do the rest.

Heck, we already have ARAMs and it is now getting it's own map JUST FOR A CUSTOM GAME CREATED WITHIN THE LIMITS SET FOR US! Thus I say that riot should RAISE those limits.

Void invasion should be a fan made creation. Not a creation made by riot themselves. This way, riot would not have to divert nearly as many resources to creating stuff like this once they have created a public map maker and unit/hero editor.

Granted, riot may not want to release such a large amount of information and the creation of a custom map making system and it's support would be quite a daunting task, but I think it would greatly increase the player support of the game.

Now what about monetization? I don't really have any good ideas. Perhaps selling certain super popular maps for IP/RP and giving a cut to the creator? That is a very dangerous option that I do not approve of but it's all I can think of.

Or League can take a page from pre-EA blizzard and implement these features free of charge. Honestly, it may reduce RP sales as people would not want to pay for champions that they would not use in the custom maps but it would increase the number of people interested in the game.

**Nadevoc** · 2012-11-12, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LordShotGun

League seems like the perfect game to start it's own custom map creator. We already have plenty of models and triggers and spells. They just need to give some amount of control over to the player base and they will do the rest.

It's actually not at all. WC3 was built from the ground up with the intent of having the map editor available. It's actually just a slightly stripped down version of the tool they actually used to make the game, from my understanding.

LoL was built from the ground up around Summoner's Rift. That means there's a lot of stuff which makes it very difficult for them to plug in other maps. They've fixed some of them and branched out and added other maps, but a few Rioters have commented on how that it is a very significant effort. There are core parts of the code which essentially forgo releasing a map editor unless they go back and essentially redo massive parts of the infrastructure, from my understanding.

**knightMARE** · 2012-11-12, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)

Posted my info a few threads back but it got lost

Server: NA
Name: SirWiffleston

Being Australian has it's drawbacks playing on the NA server though (much higher ping). I should probably get Mumble, I'd much prefer playing with voice chat rather than randoms.

Champions I can play (kinda):

Top Lane : Volibear, Nasus, Poppy, Lulu, Darius
Middle Lane: Galio, Malz (Kinda)
Jungler: Hecarim, Xin Zhao, Olaf, Alistar, Maokai
Support: Lulu
ADC: Sivir

As you can probably see, I don't play bot lane often,usually ending up in the top lane. Is Sivir that bad of a pick?
I picked up Elise when she came out on a whim, but I've got no idea on how to really build her, picking up mainly AP and some AS, but others have told me this is worthless and I should be trying to build bruiserish on her. Has anyone played her enough to offer advice? I figure that with the next patch buffing her AP ratios it might be worth giving her another shot

**Joran** · 2012-11-12, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

Don't get me wrong, Coop has its place. If you don't want to learn a new champ's mechanics in normals or ranked (read: if you're a coward) that's fine, and i'll still infrequently play them with friends who want their FWotD, but like... i have around 100 AI games played total. That's like one AI game for every 20 or so normals/rankeds/customs that i play. I don't understand how people don't get burnt out on AI games despite knowing players with massive AI game:Real game ratios. I'm just wondering about the other side's perspective.

Greatly simplified:

My League of Legends play before Co-Op vs. AI:

1) Get back from 8 hours at work, 2 hours on the road, put baby to sleep.
2) Spend some time with my wife.
3a) I have a spare hour to play; do I play some League of Legends with an unknown amount of time and unknown quality of play? According to matchmaking, I have a 50-50 shot of feeling miserable (I do not like ending on a loss). I go play something else.
or
3b) It's the weekly scheduled night with my friends, who also all work. We play a good 3-4 matches of arranged League of Legends. Sometimes it still ends horribly and I feel pissed.

My League of Legends play after Co-Op vs. AI:

3a) I have a spare hour to play: I spend 10 minutes playing a bot game, get my win of the day, go do something else.

3b) It's the weekly scheduled night with my friends, who also all work. We play a good 3-4 matches of arranged League of Legends. At the end, we relax with a bot game, trolololo.

**ex cathedra** · 2012-11-13, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by knightMARE

Posted my info a few threads back but it got lost

You're actually already in the first post, and you were in the first post of the last thread as well.

Originally Posted by knightMARE

I picked up Elise when she came out on a whim, but I've got no idea on how to really build her, picking up mainly AP and some AS, but others have told me this is worthless and I should be trying to build bruiserish on her. Has anyone played her enough to offer advice? I figure that with the next patch buffing her AP ratios it might be worth giving her another shot

The most successful build that I've seen relies on abusing her percentile damage skill's base damage while building enough defenses and CDR to survive in melee; stack MPen via Sorc Boots, Haunting Guise, and Abyssal Scepter and complement it with Frozen Heart and some combination of Guardian Angel, Rylai's, Zhonya's, and Deathcap.

Originally Posted by Joran

Greatly simplified:
My League of Legends play before Co-Op vs. AI:

Playing co-op because you only have the time/opportunity to play co-op and you want the IP so you use it for normal games != only playing bot games because you don't like playing against people.

**knightMARE** · 2012-11-13, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

You're actually already in the first post, and you were in the first post of the last thread as well.

I shouldn't be allowed on the internet with this little sleep. Apologies to anyone who's time I wasted with that

The build you posted seems solid though. I tend to forget Haunting Guise exists at all, and when I remember I tend to want something else first. I'll give it a try later though, thanks. It looks like she'll benefit from the MPen changes for S3 too.

**sonofzeal** · 2012-11-13, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

Playing co-op because you only have the time/opportunity to play co-op and you want the IP so you use it for normal games != only playing bot games because you don't like playing against people.

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(edit) I just realized the image by itself might come off the wrong way. Basically it's the same situation though. Learning real music and playing in a real band is awesome if you can do it, and for many people the thrill is incomparable to the cheap gimmicks of Rock Band or Guitar Hero. But not everyone is like that, some people like the lower-pressure, the easier learning curve, the emotional satisfaction of "winning" even if the "victory" doesn't really mean all that much. And there's still a degree of skill and mastery at work, so it gets at least some of that same good feeling of a job well done, without the intensity of the "real thing". And just as that intensity makes it worth it for those who do master the "real thing", there's others for whom that same intensity is intimidating and/or stressful. Or, heck, personal experience shows that one individual can slide forward or backward on that scale depending on how their day's been and what mood they're in.

You might have a relatively unchallenging day, and get your competitive urges out on PvP. These days, I'm reliably working 45-50 hour weeks with few breaks and a lot of pressure, so the milder experience of Co-Op is often more my speed, and I'll often only foray into PVP on weekends. The two experiences are highly analogous as far as psychological costs/rewards, it's just the intensity that changes.

**ex cathedra** · 2012-11-13, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)

People can enjoy games regardless of their quality, but that doesn't mean that discussing a game's quality is a worthless exercise. League, as a PvE game, is rather mediocre.

**ChaosOS** · 2012-11-13, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)

Depends. I think in terms of converting PvP games to PvE, Mann vs. Machine is pretty much the gold standard. Valve hit the nail on the head there, and unique upgrades translates well into items, and then the base of having lots of enemies with roughly analogous abilities works well.

**sonofzeal** · 2012-11-13, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

People can enjoy games regardless of their quality, but that doesn't mean that discussing a game's quality is a worthless exercise. League, as a PvE game, is rather mediocre.

LoL, as a purely PvE game, is indeed mediocre. Thankfully, it's not purely a PvE game.

- I, personally, aspire to be good at the PvP elements, and enjoy them, but I'm not often in the mood for that level of competition. PvE might not train all the same skills, but it's certainly better practice than, say, playing Bejeweled.

- In a similar vein, I enjoy both PvP and PvE. Getting my PvE jollies from LoL allows me to satisfy both urges without re-learning an entire set of controls, mechanics, suite of champions, etc.

- LoL is popular. Many people play it. People who play PvE socially may be attracted to PvE LoL because it gives them a chance to play alongside their other (more competitive) LoL friends, or at least give a frame of reference to entering into the same discussions. If all I play is Co-Op, I can still talk to a PvPer about my favorite champions, ones I hate facing, changes I'd wish they make, and we can share epic moments of pwnage.

**TheShrike** · 2012-11-13, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)

So I was playing with some some friends of friends. One of them I knew, and I knew he was a fair bit weaker than me. The rest I did not know, but suspected they were significantly weaker than I. I thought I might need to carry, so I played my stompiest top and went from there.

Well.

**Silverraptor** · 2012-11-13, 01:57 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by TheShrike

So I was playing with some some friends of friends. One of them I knew, and I knew he was a fair bit weaker than me. The rest I did not know, but suspected they were significantly weaker than I. I thought I might need to carry, so I played my stompiest top and went from there.

Well.

Those are really good games. I remember when I would play Tryndamiere or Nasus on my smurf with friends new to the game. Farm top for 20 minutes, then proceed to kill entire enemy team single handed.

**Reynard** · 2012-11-13, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)

And here's me preferring to try and do that well against people of my level and (hopefully) ability, so I know I actually earned it, instead of it basically being a bot game where the bots don't have ze haxors to see you in bushes and the other things they get.

Smurfing has no interest or enjoyment to me. My year-old EU account has only recently hit level 21, because I've managed to find people who play on that server to play with. And even then, the games tend to be stomps, because yeah, level 21 account.

**TechnOkami** · 2012-11-13, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by TheShrike

So I was playing with some some friends of friends. One of them I knew, and I knew he was a fair bit weaker than me. The rest I did not know, but suspected they were significantly weaker than I. I thought I might need to carry, so I played my stompiest top and went from there.

Well.

You know? Some how this doesn't surprise me, at all.

**TheShrike** · 2012-11-13, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)

At one point I mentioned to my team "I'm half health with 2k gold, I should go spend it". Then my support got caught by 3 enemies, got them to half (lol Zyra) and died. So I just ran in and cleaned up, no big deal. So I tell my team "I'm one third HP with 3k gold, going to go buy" and then my AD Carry got caught and died. So I decided to go avenge him as well, and got the kill. By the time I finished him off, the first three were alive again, but both summoners and my ult had just come up. With Amumu's help, I got another triple kill. Never did get a chance to go back and spend my 4k gold.

EDIT: In retrospect, I probably should have played someone less stompy, like Darius.

**Dada** · 2012-11-13, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

League, as a PvE game, is rather mediocre.

How do you know? You are judging purely by expectation and prejudice here. I do agree with you that Coop and Custom games are very mediocre as PvE, yet a lot of people clearly enjoys this. But this is not Coop vs. a semi-stupid AI. This is a completely new context, and we haven't seen anything similar from Riot yet.

**Math_Mage** · 2012-11-13, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by aethernox

People can enjoy games regardless of their quality, but that doesn't mean that discussing a game's quality is a worthless exercise. League, as a PvE game, is rather mediocre.

It might help to have a game mode designed to be PvE, rather than just having PvP with bots replacing the enemy team.

**Godskook** · 2012-11-13, 03:08 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Dada

How do you know?

Its Warcraft 3, but you don't get a base or army. Its not really all that hard to imagine, since Warcraft 3 actually had missions without bases or significant armies(I can't remember if there were missions without any non-Champ units in WC3 or not).

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

It might help to have a game mode designed to be PvE, rather than just having PvP with bots replacing the enemy team.

Which leads to the next question: Wasn't Warcraft 3 designed in a system based around PvE?

**Math_Mage** · 2012-11-13, 03:11 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Godskook

Which leads to the next question: Wasn't Warcraft 3 designed in a system based around PvE?

How does this contribute to your point?

Thread: League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

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