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Thread: Spells: What to Ban?
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2012-11-22, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-11-22, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
Wings of Cover is a good one to add to the list. At high level, I could see a Sorcerer just using Heighten Spell and burning most of his lower level slots to cast this as needed to avoid nearly any attack.
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2012-11-22, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
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2012-11-26, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
FWIW, I think the planar binding line works just fine if used as intended. It's when a player tries to get something for nothing and/or abuses the called outsider that it becomes a problem.
It's a player generated plot-hook if used well and a nightmarish headache if used poorly or abusively.
I can certainly understand banning it to avoid the latter.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2012-12-07, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
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2012-12-07, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
The main problem with the Planar Binding fix of assuming certain things about outsider behavior is that its basically a stealth nerf. A player might come in with the expectation that the spell works one way and then get slapped by the equivalent of 'rocks fall, everyone dies' as a million outsiders converge on them and crush them for their hubris, but that doesn't really make for good gaming.
For me though I'd just remove the ability to compel behavior from all of the outsider summoning spells, make it clear to players that you have to pre-negotiate the spell with the summoned being, and that you can get the same one each time so that pre-negotiation is actually useful.
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2012-12-08, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
It's only a stealth nerf if you don't tell the player about it when they pick up a calling spell.
The binding line are noteables in the way of significantly impacting -any- campaign they take place in and should, consequently, be something for which a good DM watches. Allowing a player to select one of the planar binding spells without comment is bad DM'ing, IMO, unless you've already had a discussion on the nature of such things as a matter of discussing your shared hobby. Even then a quick reminder of said conversation would be a good way to err on the side of caution.
The same is true, albeit to a much lesser extent, to planar ally and; to an even lesser, but still noteable extent; certain spells of the enchantment school.
Also of note; there's a clause in the planar binding spells that prevents you from compelling the called creature without making -some- kind of deal.Originally Posted by PHB pg 262
Since the DM runs the called creature (who is an NPC, remember) it's up to his discression to determine what's reasonable.Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-12-08 at 01:02 AM.
I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2013-01-29, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
I'm still tinkering with this list. I'll likely remove Enhance Wildshape, as it isn't broken--even though I think its not necessary to have this spell.
Last edited by ShriekingDrake; 2013-01-29 at 09:10 PM.
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2013-01-30, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
I had a substitute GM who wanted to ban entire classes of spells (divination) and I discovered in the first game would liberally engage in the disfunction of "every NPC has permanent true seeing".
I think it really just taught me to avoid spells that can be gibbed by fiat.
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2013-02-03, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
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2013-02-04, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
Incidentally, if you really are disturbed by some spells, just enforce the actual rules as written for casting spells and you'll rapidly discover how balanced it is.
Ex: A standard wizard (no frills) would need 3 spellbooks just to write down the spells they get from leveling to 20th. That's 9 lbs of gear they basically 'have' to carry around with them to prepare for a day of adventuring. Then check out the spell components, the better spells routinely require you to have gems worth several thousand gp or the like. Spells generally do require more preparation and money input than is noticed. Making someone with a default strength of 8 carry all that crap seems a just balancing act. (They still have to lug it even if they don't actually prepare the spell, i.e. if they want to be 'able' to cast most anything they're going to be trucking around ....well...a truck worth of materials. Nevermind the weight of gear.
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2013-02-04, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
Invisible (tenser's) floating disk disagrees. A dominated (insert dumb minion) is commanded to disagree.
Also
Overland fly = shuts down melee all day long, no component worth noting
(Greater) Teleport = makes random encounters vanish and completely changes play dynamics, no component worth noting
Summon (anything) = most versatile spell sans shadow conjuration, no component worth noting
Polymorph any object = okay I lied. Do anything. Become anything. Permanently.
No component worth noting.
Wish = Remember all those crafting feats those foolish arcane casters took? Yeah the fools 5000 xp which are converted to the desired item as a standard action.
See a pattern? I could go on really...
EDIT: Lastly all wizards buy / steal / murder in order to obtain this for their spell book needsLast edited by peacenlove; 2013-02-04 at 10:36 AM.
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2013-02-04, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
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2013-02-04, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
I kind of like the dominate [monster; person] idea. Tenser's would let you down (literally) as soon as you teleport, dimension door, or fly. So you'd have to burn scrolls on this I suppose, or waste slots in casting it.
Also
Overland fly = shuts down melee all day long, no component worth noting
(Greater) Teleport = makes random encounters vanish and completely changes play dynamics, no component worth noting
Polymorph any object = okay I lied. Do anything. Become anything. Permanently. No component worth noting.
Wish = Remember all those crafting feats those foolish arcane casters took? Yeah the fools 5000 xp which are converted to the desired item as a standard action.
See a pattern? I could go on really...
Edit: Yeah the Blessed book is good...but you'd still have to carry around the books until you get the 10k for it...that's alot to spend until you're just tripping over treasure.Last edited by Pickford; 2013-02-04 at 02:15 PM.
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2013-02-04, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
But all the wizard needs is that, a spell component pouch, and a headband of intellect. I mean yes rings of deflection, cloaks of resistance, and things are nice but the wizard doesn't really need them to scale well.
Edit: And you can get that book well within wealth by level at around 8 long before you start running out of pages in your first book I believe. Even less if crafting.
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2013-02-04, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
By the time you're using dimension door or fly, a handy haversack (2000gp) is a readily affordable bit of gear (and something most characters will want anyway).
When outdoors...granted most melee would be able to shoot you with arrows here, or go stand under a tree preventing you from targetting them with spells, but sure...in an open field, not bad.
Yeah and have it's int too, so if you pick wrong you are a squirrel. Forever. No component worth noting?? It requires 'smoke'. So you have to light a torch or start a fire first which isn't exactly the first thing a mage is doing in combat.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
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2013-02-12, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Spells: What to Ban?
Unless others have suggestions, I'll move on to spells that should be fixed. Thanks for all the good advice.
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2013-06-05, 10:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Spells: What to Ban?
I've made a few small tweaks.
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