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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    By some weird situation, my character ended up with a charisma ability score of 52 and leveled up 4 times. I am trying to level him up from a level 2 sorcerer to a lvl 6 character, but I am not sure what to do. My other stats are normal (16-20) , and I only have 16hp (@ lvl 2) and a low AC. My ultimate goal would be to power my character with my charisma bonus going towards hp/ac/saves so that he is more likely to survive. Any suggestions regarding feats, prestige classes, spells, etc would be most appreciated!!!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    How did you get a 52 CHA that early?
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    How did you get a 52 CHA that early?
    Not to mention he says his other stats are all 16-20. What crazy system are you on man?

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Through this handy list of templetes (from 2005) here it is possible to obtain 52 charisma through intense templete stacking and a level adjustment of +32.
    Spoiler
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    half air +2
    half fire +2
    half water +2
    half celestial +4
    half fiend +2
    half rakshasa +2
    half dragon +2
    half fey +4
    half nymph +4
    fire-souled +4
    saint +4

    drow +2

    base 18

    total 52 charisma

    Fun fact: that's 8 half-X templetes.

    I have no idea how he was able to obtain 52 within a playable amount of LA.
    Last edited by Xan499; 2012-11-13 at 02:54 AM.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Xan499 View Post
    Through this handy list of templetes (from 2005) here it is possible to obtain 52 charisma through intense templete stacking and a level adjustment of +32.
    Spoiler
    Show
    half air +2
    half fire +2
    half water +2
    half celestial +4
    half fiend +2
    half rakshasa +2
    half dragon +2
    half fey +4
    half nymph +4
    fire-souled +4
    saint +4

    drow +2

    base 18

    total 52 charisma

    Fun fact: that's 8 half-X templetes.

    I have no idea how he was able to obtain 52 within a playable amount of LA.
    Magic, got it.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ceaon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    X stat to Y bonus thread.

    Please, please elaborate on your character.
    I mean, 52 cha?
    "My other stats or normal" (16-20!?)
    "My level 2 sorcerer only has 16 hp @ level 2"?

    Those would all pretty insane in any of my games.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Xan499 View Post
    Through this handy list of templetes (from 2005) here it is possible to obtain 52 charisma through intense templete stacking and a level adjustment of +32.
    Spoiler
    Show
    half air +2
    half fire +2
    half water +2
    half celestial +4
    half fiend +2
    half rakshasa +2
    half dragon +2
    half fey +4
    half nymph +4
    fire-souled +4
    saint +4

    drow +2

    base 18

    total 52 charisma

    Fun fact: that's 8 half-X templetes.

    I have no idea how he was able to obtain 52 within a playable amount of LA.
    You could drag it down to probably +28-30 LA if you used the Unseelie Fey template - IIRC, that's +2 CHA. But yeah, it's insanely high. Even stacking artifacts/magic items as well (potentially up to +8 untyped from a Halruuan Elixir, Soul Elixirs, inherent +5...), it's ludicrously high.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    I DEMAND a character sheet!

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Anyone else rememer that card game where you yell out two words when someone is lying

    Truly to be a playable character i dont think this can be done. I think the OP is making a challenge in a round about way.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Cloak of Sirine's Grace: +4 Enh to Charisma and Dex, Allows Charisma to be used for AC purposes, if I am not mistaken

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Ok so 52 Charisma on a sorcerer? That is a lot of bonus spells a day. +21 mod.
    Bonus spells of 5 level 1 and 4 level 2-9 spells a day.

    Ascetic Mage, take 1 level in monk add you charisma mod to your AC. Take 2 levels of Paladin, you get Divine Grace. Add your charisma mod to all saves.
    For level 6 you will be 1 monk, 2 paladin, 3 sorcerer. I am assuming your human so this won't take multiclass penalties.
    But that's not what I think would be best.

    6 Sorcerer. Metamagic cheese, that is all.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Guy doesn't know how to level up.

    Got given +40 charisma and 4 levels by the DM all at once.



    Yep, this is that derp campaign everyone plays when they're new to DnD, with the DM who thinks the point of the game is to hand bonuses to people and then arbitrarily kill them off because they rolled a '1'.

    My advice - have fun with it, don't think too hard, you're probably on rails anyway.

    And in the Player's Handbook, it will tell you how to level up, just do that four times until you are a level 6 sorcerer.

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    2 levels of Paladin. Get lay on hands (Charisma mod x Pally levels of healing a day, so like 42 something spare health lying around)
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Persuade the DM to give you the unearthly grace ability as a feat. If he is letting you get a Cha of 52, that should be easy.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Ideas

    - Well, you could take the rest of your levels in Cleric, Planning Domain + Persist Spell + Divine Metamagic (Persist Spell) out the wazoo with your 24 turn undeads per day.

    - Take a level in Marshal. Just one. Pick whatever minor aura speaks to you, though Motivate Charisma would be sick. You now have a +50 or so to all your social skills. Diplomance away. Oh yea, put one rank in Iaijutsu focus. Or you could put it in Motivate Intelligence and know everything. Or Motivate Dexterity and your initiative count becomes "Yes, I go first again."

    - Or Monk 1 and Ascetic Mage for +cha bonus to AC.

    - But really, you should take two levels in Paladin on your way to a really boss sorcadin build. If you take Paladin to 4 you get turn undead and can still pull off those nifty Divine Metamagic tricks, though you put your casting behind quite a bit, and will never get 9th level spells. It would be better in the long run to wait for a PrC that gives you turn undead.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage1 View Post
    Persuade the DM to give you the unearthly grace ability as a feat. If he is letting you get a Cha of 52, that should be easy.
    It can temporarily be done with the Ability Rip spell. Permanently remove a supernatural ability from a target, and bestow it on another character. Of course, the target loses it permanently and you only get it temporarily, so try and keep up a running supply of nymphs to renew the spell whenever it ends. If you can get an Incantatrix to persist it for you, you'll only need one nymph each day.

    I'm not sure how you'd get it permanently, though. I suppose you could polymorph into one (PaO, specifically) and then Assume Supernatural Ability it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Just crank up diplomacy as high as you can and break the game wide open. With that score you'll have gods fawning.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Beauty's Bounty Feat http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a

    First level of Charisma Hit points. You probably qualify. But look at the X to Y link above for lots of synergy.

    I hope you play in a really high Op game, because that's silly high.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    I quite like the Marshal concept, but pick Art of War: +21 on every ones Disarm, Trip, Bull Rush and Sunder. It comes around to your initiative and you simply take control of the battlefield.

    Your Hexblade's curses would be unstoppable, your Knight's Knight's Challenges would be irresistible, but really just play a Cha based caster FTW.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Everyone here seems to know more than I do- all the advice I'd give has already been said.

    I would like to ask how this happened though. Was your GM high?
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    6 Sorcerer, 1 Monk, 2 Paladin, 1 PRC Virtuoso, 1 PRC Sublime Chord, 9 PRC Incantrix
    Virtuous gets you bardic music which you need for sublime chord.
    Sublime chord lets you cast Wizard/Sorcerer and Bard spells; it also has its own spell progress to get lvl 4-9 spells.
    Incantrix will be used to advanced Sublime Chord and allow metamagic greatness.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Artillery View Post
    6 Sorcerer, 1 Monk, 2 Paladin, 1 PRC Virtuoso, 1 PRC Sublime Chord, 9 PRC Incantrix
    Virtuous gets you bardic music which you need for sublime chord.
    Sublime chord lets you cast Wizard/Sorcerer and Bard spells; it also has its own spell progress to get lvl 4-9 spells.
    Incantrix will be used to advanced Sublime Chord and allow metamagic greatness.
    This, but you might want to shuffle the order around a bit so that at level 6 you'd be Sorcerer 3/Monk 1/Paladin 2, so you get Cha to saves and AC right away. If you're not LG then there are paladin variants from Unearthed Arcana like Paladin of Freedom, and there's the battledancer class (from dragon mag I think) that gets cha to AC right away without needing to spend a feat on Aescetic Mage.

    From the X stat Y bonus thread, the most promising things for you seem to be Beauty's Bounty if you're a fey for 52 more hitpoints and maybe a Bow of Songs if you have spare money, so that you could actually use your Virtuoso Music, and of course the spells that use your ability mod.

    For higher levels you absolutely need Extend Spell and Persist Spell. Use you Instant Metamagic from incantatrix to persist a buff or two, like Sirine's Grace for cha to AC.

    Whirling Blade and Thunderlance should probably be spells known for you: With your Charisma where it is Whirling Blade cast on a nonmagical greatsword does on average almost as much as a lightningbolt by a level 10 caster, only no save, no SR, no elemental damage and a level lower. And that's if you use a medium sized greatsword.

    When you get access to shapechange, spend as much time as possible as an Astral Stalker or something similar for cha to all your stats.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    For metamagic Thunderlance is probably better. You could do an Extended Maximized Thunderlance. Spell slot of level 8 or dc spellcraft check of 42.
    If you optimize your spellcraft checks you could easily get away with having a Widened Maximized Persistent Thunderlance. Range 40", doing 18+2*Charisma mod; 60 dmg ignoring DR. Attack bonus would be quite high even if your BAB is only +5 at lvl 12, but that is only 1 behind straight sorcerer.

    This is a lance that has variable length so it should be able to hit from 0ft to 40ft. Would it threaten aoo for 40ft around it?

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    16 HP at level 2 is actually feasible.

    Assume base Con of 16.

    Add on Dragonborn Dwarf (+4 Con)

    That's 10 HP from Con alone, and assuming max HP at level 1, and average HP thereafter, that's 16.5 at level 2.

    If we used Battle Sorceror (d8 HD), you'd only need a total Con mod of +2 to hit 16.5 HP at level 2. That could be 10 Con, and Dragonborn Dwarf.

    Granted, these characters are not well built, but they have HP.

    High HP would be battle sorceror, (12.5 HP), dragonborn mongrelfolk (+6 hp) Con 18 (+8 hp), and Toughness (+3 hp). That would yield 29.5 HP at level 2, as a sorceror. Granted, the Cha penalty is nasty, but it's a lot of life.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    Granted, the Cha penalty is nasty, but it's a lot of life.
    Given the immense CHA of TC's character, I don't think there's a CHA penalty going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
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    Yes, the underwear of my epic wizards are more than capable of conquering your average world on their own.

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    Socratov's Avatar

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    I think the guy is playing the main hero in a shounen campaign. he will be the determinator of determinators (now to get that cha over 9000).

    but yeah, get marshal1 lvl and further just play sorc and throw around save-or-suck/dies round. Those DC's won't be met without rolling natural 20s

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    I think the guy is playing the main hero in a shounen campaign. he will be the determinator of determinators (now to get that cha over 9000).

    but yeah, get marshal1 lvl and further just play sorc and throw around save-or-suck/dies round. Those DC's won't be met without rolling natural 20s
    In such a campaign, the DC is generally met whenever the DM wants it to be. When numbers get stupid high, you may as well ignore them. The game moves at the speed of plot.
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    No one has mentioned leadership yet right. Leadership at level 6.

    Leadership score will be 27.

    For followers you will have 135 lvl 1, 13 lvl 2, 7 lvl 3, 4 lvl 4, 2 lvl 5, and 2 lvl 6.

    That is a lot of people. You establish a base of operations. You get up to 1417.5 gold a week from your 135 lvl 1 crafters. All with skill focus crafting, using master work tools, of various races with crafting bonuses. DC 21 on take 10 for crafting.

    They can craft 5670GP worth of DC 20 stuff a week. Crank out mundane goods at much higher rates then you could yourself.

    The higher level ones can craft magical gods quite simply, wands, wonderous items, rings, etc. When you stop adventuring you have another source of income and items.

    Wand of Empowered Guidance of the Avatar +30 to next skill check.
    Scroll of Empowered Glibness +45 to Bluff.

    So you want to bluff god? Sounds like no problem. Ok you want to take 10 on your bluff check of, that is 106.

    Base diplomacy check is 31 on a take 10, add Guidance of Avatar, 61. You know dark cleric who was trying to kill you 5 turns ago, he's healing you and leading you starting to the mcguffin you wanted.

    If you talk to people twice they will be willing to throw their life away to protect you. You can train magical beast to follow you easily. Gathering information is a breeze.

    Also I just remembered being a ghost would work very well here. They get a deflection bonus equal to their charisma mod. You also can basically take over peoples body when ever you want, will save would be 36.

    LA is +5, but all your hit dice become d12 and you can stay incorpreal and invisible most of the time. You return even if "killed" 2d4 days later.

    If there is someone you want dead you take over their body and coup de grace, themself. Oh you are a construct immune to ghost fun, regular sorcerer stuff go.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Level 2 Sorceror so thats 2d4+ 6hp (assuming a Con of 16) +3 (Toughness) = 11-17hp but Charisma 52?

    Is it actually possible to have that many level adjusted racial templates?

    Apologies but what weird situation?

    A few years sorry decades ago I tried running a D&D super game and used the magic item tables as a guide to what powers certain characters could have albeit nothing on this level I did however wonder if his dm allowed him to gain modifiers to his Charisma as a result of something to do with a potion of glibness which I think grants a +20 modifier but to lying I think and I was wondering if the weird situation he's talking about involved something similar to the potion miscibility effect?
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2012-11-14 at 07:29 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Insane Charisma Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Artillery View Post
    Wand of Empowered Guidance of the Avatar +30 to next skill check.
    Scroll of Empowered Glibness +45 to Bluff.
    You can't empower either of these spells. Empower requires variable numeric effects. So it would be +20 and +30 respectively. Of course that's still +50 to your bluff check.

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