New Tactical Situation

[Rorrik]

We've already discussed to death the chance of the Order's victory against the Linear Guild, but something just changed.

Tarquin is taking off and Nale is now left in charge, with the majority of his power in the form of Malack, who would sooner kill him, and Durkon, who is Malack's servant. Both of them have also used most of their better spells.

So, what chance does the order have now? Without V, probably little. But maybe V's disappearance works out for them. Because V was gone, Tarquin decided to leave things up to Nale. Now V rejoining the Order could well make his panicked fleeing to the Order's advantage (not counting the loss of Durkon that occured partially due to his absence).

So what are the Order's chances in this new tactical situation, does the playground think?

[Raineh Daze]

It looks like V would have to make a concentration check to remember what spells she has prepared, so I wouldn't count on help from that quarter.

[Rorrik]

Is that a thing? Having to make a concentration check to remember spells? I never knew that was a thing.

[Raineh Daze]

It's hyperbole, honestly. XD

[TRH]

What's not hyperbole is that V's distress would give her a serious circumstance penalty for will saves - and there's two vampires who would exact saving throws. If V showed up now (which still isn't happening short of IFCC possession), she'd be more of a liability than an asset.

[VanaGalen]

What's not hyperbole is that V's distress would give her a serious circumstance penalty for will saves - and there's two vampires who would exact saving throws. If V showed up now (which still isn't happening short of IFCC possession), she'd be more of a liability than an asset.

V's will saves has been pretty good before and it's possible that even with such penalty s/he is more reliable than the rest of the party.
I'm worried about hir hit points though, s/he seems to be badly hurt by the fall and the OotS has Elan on main healer duty atm

[Sky_Schemer]

So what are the Order's chances in this new tactical situation, does the playground think?

On the surface it pretty much sucks. I think at this point it is up to V, the Order reaching the gate, or something external like Xykon's arrival to add a new element and shift the balance of the equation.

Which I hope happens soon because, really, like Malack I am growing weary of this "Kick the Order while they're down, then kick them again, and then again, and then again and again" story arc. It has ceased to be entertaining, and the number of unresolved plot points is growing at a rapid clip.

[The Pilgrim]

You fail to see the big picture. The Order, previously, had, like, a 10%, maybe 20% chance to win. Now they have one on a million... and that's a SURE thing.

Not only that, but Tarquin, the only guy genre savvy enough to figure out in what dire situation the Linear Guild is now, is about to leave.

[Rakoa]

You fail to see the big picture. The Order, previously, had, like, a 10%, maybe 20% chance to win. Now they have one on a million... and that's a SURE thing.

Not only that, but Tarquin, the only guy genre savvy enough to figure out in what dire situation the Linear Guild is now, is about to leave.

No no, you misunderstand. By his leaving, he tips the scales closer to even, thereby eliminating the Order's chances of victory.

[Leirus]

I do not think the Tactical Situation is done changing yet. Why would Quarr go looking for V?

[Rorrik]

You fail to see the big picture. The Order, previously, had, like, a 10%, maybe 20% chance to win. Now they have one on a million... and that's a SURE thing.

Not only that, but Tarquin, the only guy genre savvy enough to figure out in what dire situation the Linear Guild is now, is about to leave.

Haha! Very true, Tarquin would be smart enough to run when he is one in a million to lose. But his leaving makes it a little closer.

Now that you mention it, I do wonder why Quarr tracked down V. How would he know where to find him? Is the IFCC going to make a move? I would think they'd wait to have Sabine back in the picture. (I can't believe Sabine is flipping channels when she could be watching Nale and co.)

[Leirus]

Haha! Very true, Tarquin would be smart enough to run when he is one in a million to lose. But his leaving makes it a little closer.

Now that you mention it, I do wonder why Quarr tracked down V. How would he know where to find him? Is the IFCC going to make a move? I would think they'd wait to have Sabine back in the picture. (I can't believe Sabine is flipping channels when she could be watching Nale and co.)

I think Quarr is with V on behalf of the IFCC, and that the plot is going to race to the end of this arc. Cannot waittt...

[Snails]

I would point out that, as it is most likely Malack is only 11th or 12th level, V could smoke him with a single Disintegrate spell, and only slightly lucky dice.

Ditto Durkon, although V is not up on the latest news, that could be extra confusing for all...

[TRH]

I would point out that, as it is most likely Malack is only 11th or 12th level, V could smoke him with a single Disintegrate spell, and only slightly lucky dice.

Ditto Durkon, although V is not up on the latest news, that could be extra confusing for all...

Not sure why so many people want Malack to die so anti-climactically; he's not Kubota, he's got an actual personality! That said, we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves by calculating V's potential participation at all before figuring out what the IFCC has in mind; I really doubt it's anything as simple as just motivating V to get back in the thick of it.

[Shred-Bot]

You know... the spellcaster who "doesn't count" has greater dispel magic... so he could pop away both the summoned meat shields, Roy's sword is super effective against undead (and the vampire clerics are both running low on spells), Z found himself vulnerable to archery during the fight in Bleedingham... not saying this will be a cakewalk for the Order, but they definitely have a puncher's chance here.

[TRH]

You know... the spellcaster who "doesn't count" has greater dispel magic... so he could pop away both the summoned meat shields, Roy's sword is super effective against undead (and the vampire clerics are both running low on spells), Z found himself vulnerable to archery during the fight in Bleedingham... not saying this will be a cakewalk for the Order, but they definitely have a puncher's chance here.

They do, but only until the Vampires start using their gaze effect to turn the Order against each other, Z Plane Shifts someone, and Nale...okay, Nale's weaponless and probably can't contribute much, but he's still got his wand of Enervation, which could take away the rest of Elan's spells.

Oh, and if Elan wanted to try and remove the fiends, his GDM would have to roll against Zz'drti's caster level, which is probably not a very good proposition at all. Basically, your described scenario only gives the OOTS a puncher's chance if everything goes right and the Linear Guild don't respond, which also describes what happened in the last fight with them. I don't see the Order getting that lucky again; at least, not lucky enough to win through conventional means.

[Raineh Daze]

You know... the spellcaster who "doesn't count" has greater dispel magic... so he could pop away both the summoned meat shields, Roy's sword is super effective against undead (and the vampire clerics are both running low on spells), Z found himself vulnerable to archery during the fight in Bleedingham... not saying this will be a cakewalk for the Order, but they definitely have a puncher's chance here.

If that's Planar Binding they've used, and I think it is (or something similar), then I don't think any form of Dispel Magic is of use. There's no ongoing spell effect (unlike summon monster, you're kind of stuck with what you get), I think.

But I'm not terribly sure on summoning rules.

[TRH]

If that's Planar Binding they've used, and I think it is (or something similar), then I don't think any form of Dispel Magic is of use. There's no ongoing spell effect (unlike summon monster, you're kind of stuck with what you get), I think.

But I'm not terribly sure on summoning rules.

Yep, just took a look at the rules, and a called creature can't be dismissed with Dispel Magic. I still don't think Elan could have succeeded at it anyway, but you never know. It would have been anticlimactic to have those summoned up only to be dismissed on contact with the enemy anyway.

[Shred-Bot]

If that's Planar Binding they've used, and I think it is (or something similar), then I don't think any form of Dispel Magic is of use. There's no ongoing spell effect (unlike summon monster, you're kind of stuck with what you get), I think.

But I'm not terribly sure on summoning rules.

Ack... I think you're right. I forgot that Planar Binding/Ally was not a "summoning" spell. Instantaneous duration means no dispel.

Well there goes that plan. (Edit: And ninja'd to boot!)

[Shred-Bot]

They do, but only until the Vampires start using their gaze effect to turn the Order against each other, Z Plane Shifts someone, and Nale...okay, Nale's weaponless and probably can't contribute much, but he's still got his wand of Enervation, which could take away the rest of Elan's spells.

Oh, and if Elan wanted to try and remove the fiends, his GDM would have to roll against Zz'drti's caster level, which is probably not a very good proposition at all. Basically, your described scenario only gives the OOTS a puncher's chance if everything goes right and the Linear Guild don't respond, which also describes what happened in the last fight with them. I don't see the Order getting that lucky again; at least, not lucky enough to win through conventional means.

...Okay since GDM won't even work on the called creatures even that is gone. Plus Tarquin isn't there, so Elan's super secret awesome plan won't come into play.

So since we know they won't get TPK-ed, which of the external interventions is most likely to save the day? The IFCC taking some time with V? Team Evil teleporting in? Malack deciding it's time to ice Nale now that Tarquin isn't looking over his shoulder? Something else entirely? The possibilities are endless!

[Raineh Daze]

I think Nale's in a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit of trouble here. Just a bit.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I have a counter proposal as to why Tarquin is leaving Nale to his own devices. Tarquin is ridiculously genre savvy right? Well he would know that when all hope for The Heroes is lost, they are only their final leg and the bad guys have all but won.... Something implausible happens that allows them to beat overwhelming odds. So Tarquin gunning for them with all of LG in tow would (in his Genre Savvy mind) lead to his defeat. By not participating, the heroes are no longer up against overwhelming odds (though still stacked against them) so the convention of "the good guys win in the end" doesn't kick in yet.

At least, if I were that genre savvy, thats what I'd do.

[Sky_Schemer]

That said, we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves by calculating V's potential participation at all before figuring out what the IFCC has in mind; I really doubt it's anything as simple as just motivating V to get back in the thick of it.

Indeed. Qtarr could be there on behalf of the IFCC to collect their payment due.

[Jay R]

Does anyone believe that Tarquin left Nale alone with Malack so Nale could impress him, as he said?

Tarquin is running a plan that we cannot figure out, and he's sacrificing Nale to do it.

[Amphiox]

Here's a thought:

LG engages OtS without V. Anticipating easy victory, Nale flubs the strategy.

V appears on the scene (empowered by the IFCC or not) AFTER Malack and Durkon have expended their turn, so no immediate chance of dominating him, and nukes Malack.

Durkula, dis-enthralled, turns on Nale.

We play Taps for Nale and Z.

[Olinser]

Haha! Very true, Tarquin would be smart enough to run when he is one in a million to lose. But his leaving makes it a little closer.

Now that you mention it, I do wonder why Quarr tracked down V. How would he know where to find him? Is the IFCC going to make a move? I would think they'd wait to have Sabine back in the picture. (I can't believe Sabine is flipping channels when she could be watching Nale and co.)

Well, Quarr works for the IFCC now.

The IFCC probably has some kind of tracker on V (probably put there when the Soul Splices were put in place).

Either that or the fact that V owes them 'soul time' allows them to always know where s/he is.

Presumably, the IFCC sent Quarr down there with a specific outcome in mind - either force V to continue running down that tunnel, or slap V across the face and make hir realize that s/he needs to get hir ass back to the party and help them.

[JavaScribe]

Haha! Very true, Tarquin would be smart enough to run when he is one in a million to lose. But his leaving makes it a little closer.

Now that you mention it, I do wonder why Quarr tracked down V. How would he know where to find him? Is the IFCC going to make a move? I would think they'd wait to have Sabine back in the picture. (I can't believe Sabine is flipping channels when she could be watching Nale and co.)

The afterlifes have access to epic level divination magic. In the IFCC's case, they more specifically have a magical television set. Remember when V fought Xykon? The tv was able to penetrate the Cloister.

[Jay R]

Here's a thought:

LG engages OtS without V. Anticipating easy victory, Nale flubs the strategy.

V appears on the scene (empowered by the IFCC or not) AFTER Malack and Durkon have expended their turn, so no immediate chance of dominating him, and nukes Malack.

Durkula, dis-enthralled, turns on Nale.

We play Taps for Nale and Z.

A. Durkon is predicted to return to the Dwarven homelands posthumously.

B. Origin of the PCs spoiler

Spoiler

Show

Durkon now has access to the Death and Destruction Spheres. He is predicted to bring Death and destruction to the dwarven homeland.

Therefore I do not expect him to be rescued in the near future.

[Snails]

Not sure why so many people want Malack to die so anti-climactically; he's not Kubota, he's got an actual personality! That said, we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves by calculating V's potential participation at all before figuring out what the IFCC has in mind; I really doubt it's anything as simple as just motivating V to get back in the thick of it.

I am not claiming that Malack will die so simply, but it is hardly a forgone conclusion if V were to arrive. It is not just Malack who is weaker than some assume, but also Durkula has many fewer hit points than Durkon.

As for the IFCC, we can say with great certainty that Tarquin seizing the Gate is definitely not something they want to have happen, even if we are bit privvy to all the details. Pushing V to save the day is a pretty good idea.

[pearl jam]

I have a counter proposal as to why Tarquin is leaving Nale to his own devices. Tarquin is ridiculously genre savvy right? Well he would know that when all hope for The Heroes is lost, they are only their final leg and the bad guys have all but won.... Something implausible happens that allows them to beat overwhelming odds. So Tarquin gunning for them with all of LG in tow would (in his Genre Savvy mind) lead to his defeat. By not participating, the heroes are no longer up against overwhelming odds (though still stacked against them) so the convention of "the good guys win in the end" doesn't kick in yet.

At least, if I were that genre savvy, thats what I'd do.

Alternatively, and I think someone has suggested this in this thread or the comic thread, that Tarquin's leaving suddenly could be the implausible thing that allows the Order to succeed after all, and he may be doing it because he wants to see the Order succeed, at least in limited fashion.