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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Well, certainly not in small dungeons but in overland travel, outdoors, etc. it's exceedingly useful. Of course, if you only ever encounter adversaries in small dungeons without enough room to fly, the utility of flight is sharply diminished.
    I suppose when you put it that way its definitely something I can cast while we're traveling or in a city, but most of the time our city encounters are roleplay rather than combat, because we don't like to risk innocent bystanders, and with phantom steed, not much can keep up with us on the road to actually attack us. I suppose as something I can cast while we're resting? But we usually ropetrick our rest time away.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Overland flight means always being able to GTFO of a bad situation with your move action.

    Being threatened by something and already used your GTFO spell (or don't mind copping the AoO)? Fly away.

    I like it because it lasts all day and is action efficient. I also love 3rd level slots, so wouldn't want to be using them all up on fly spells. That, and I would rather open with a different defensive spell in combat (imp invis, mirror image, etc.).

    Casting spells on a phantom steed requires a concentration check, I think you have to make ride checks to stay on your mount when you take damage, your horse isn't invisible, it's too big for tight spaces, and you take penalties on ranged attack rolls.

    The average maneuverability in tight spaces can be countered with spider climb. Just land on ceilings or walls. At 10min/level, you've got an hour and a half at level 9, which is almost an entire adventuring day.

    But the real advantage is always having a move action available to move out of somewhere bad.

    Are the ONLY spells you can get PHB ones, or only at the current place? Because I would save the spells you get on level up to pull from different sources.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Spuddles View Post
    Overland flight means always being able to GTFO of a bad situation with your move action.

    Being threatened by something and already used your GTFO spell (or don't mind copping the AoO)? Fly away.

    I like it because it lasts all day and is action efficient. I also love 3rd level slots, so wouldn't want to be using them all up on fly spells. That, and I would rather open with a different defensive spell in combat (imp invis, mirror image, etc.).

    Casting spells on a phantom steed requires a concentration check, I think you have to make ride checks to stay on your mount when you take damage, your horse isn't invisible, it's too big for tight spaces, and you take penalties on ranged attack rolls.

    The average maneuverability in tight spaces can be countered with spider climb. Just land on ceilings or walls. At 10min/level, you've got an hour and a half at level 9, which is almost an entire adventuring day.

    But the real advantage is always having a move action available to move out of somewhere bad.

    Are the ONLY spells you can get PHB ones, or only at the current place? Because I would save the spells you get on level up to pull from different sources.
    the only way to get non-phb spells is to ask the DM if I can, and then if he ok's the spell, my character needs to do ingame research, consuming time and money to get it. So it'd have to be a pretty kick ass spell for us to really want to get it.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    If you can research spells check out the druids control winds spell. Then lookup the wind effects for different strengths. Pretty freaking amazing stuff.

    If you go that route; consider getting air-related puns like 'windbag', or 'full of hot-air'. :)
    Last edited by Sudain; 2012-11-14 at 11:33 AM.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    I wouldn't take overland flight as your first 5th level spell when you could put an offensive spell there. I might take it as your 2nd or 3rd though. Hour/level buffs are nice because you can both protect yourself and still contribute to the fight, unlike spells that require combat time to cast. Here are some good spells to consider that weren't on your list:

    3: *sleet storm, *greater magic weapon, *haste, dispel magic
    4: *stoneskin (if you can spare about 2,000 gp for 8 uses), solid fog, wall of ice, illusory wall
    5: *wall of force, wall of stone, persistent image, overland flight, teleport
    later: *? (see end of post) ray of enfeeblement, *false life, magic jar, heroism
    * really good

    Wall of force is perhaps the best battlefield control spell in all of core. No save, no SR, no destroying it (with rare exceptions), no dispelling it, no AMFing it. Just boom, crowd controlled. Sleet storm is another favorite for cc. GMW is hour per level and helps your whole party; you should really have it by the time you get 5th level spells so you can burn your lower level slots in a very effective way. There are only so many rounds in a combat to cast things. I know people fear burning money like the plague but the combat in a campaign is very brief, so stoneskin is well worth the cost. In fact 8 uses is being generous; if you can manage 4 uses it's still awesome. If you do a lot of dungeons it's even better because you can cast it at the entrance. If you have empower spell when you turn generalist then ray of enfeeblement is a must.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-11-14 at 01:32 PM.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    I wouldn't take overland flight as your first 5th level spell when you could put an offensive spell there. I might take it as your 2nd or 3rd though. Hour/level buffs are nice because you can both protect yourself and still contribute to the fight, unlike spells that require combat time to cast. Here are some good spells to consider that weren't on your list:

    3: *sleet storm, *greater magic weapon, *haste, dispel magic
    4: *stoneskin (if you can spare about 2,000 gp for 8 uses), solid fog, wall of ice, illusory wall
    5: *wall of force, wall of stone, persistent image, overland flight, teleport
    later: *? (see end of post) ray of enfeeblement, *false life, magic jar, heroism
    * really good

    Wall of force is perhaps the best battlefield control spell in all of core. No save, no SR, no destroying it (with rare exceptions), no dispelling it, no AMFing it. Just boom, crowd controlled. Sleet storm is another favorite for cc. GMW is hour per level and helps your whole party; you should really have it by the time you get 5th level spells so you can burn your lower level slots in a very effective way. There are only so many rounds in a combat to cast things. I know people fear burning money like the plague but the combat in a campaign is very brief, so stoneskin is well worth the cost. In fact 8 uses is being generous; if you can manage 4 uses it's still awesome. If you do a lot of dungeons it's even better because you can cast it at the entrance. If you have empower spell when you turn generalist then ray of enfeeblement is a must.
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I had no idea greater magic weapon lasted an hour per level, after hearing that it's definitely something I'm going to add to my collection.
    Stoneskin I actually already have on my list, and also have a bit (1200gp worth) of diamond dust leftover from when we raided a spell component storehouse in the dungeon we're in. So enough for 4 uses, minus any we use for restoration and whatnot.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    The only limit that has been placed on me is spells with a name before them. I know for a fact that Otiluke doesn't want me going through his spells, so none of his spells. Any of the others I'll have to ask next session.
    Your DM has a rather odd take on "[Name]'s" spells. The prefix generally just means that that person invented the spell and gets to have their name in everyones' books as a reward, not that they're keeping it to themself.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Your DM has a rather odd take on "[Name]'s" spells. The prefix generally just means that that person invented the spell and gets to have their name in everyones' books as a reward, not that they're keeping it to themself.
    They aren't necessarily keeping it to themselves, but they can demand that access be restricted at institutions such as these. Obviously, if a random scroll dealer happened to have some of their spells, there wouldn't be any restriction. But we're playing in Greyhawk, where most of those mages are still alive and have a strong influence.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    If, as a 7th level wizard, I'd have to prepare core only spells, and choose each spell only once, without considering bonus spells for high ability or specialization, I'd go for:

    1. Color Spray (wonderful debuff), Grease (solid battlefield control), Shield (excellent protection), Silent Image (super-multi-purpose)
    2. Alter Self (multi-purpose buff), Glitterdust (excellent debuff), Invisibility (multi-purpose buff)
    3. Haste (excellent frontline buff), Stinking Cloud (outstanding debuff and battlefield control)
    4. Solid Fog (ultimate battlefield control)
    Last edited by Malachei; 2012-11-15 at 05:06 AM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    If, as a 7th level wizard, I'd have to prepare core only spells, and choose each spell only once, without considering bonus spells for high ability or specialization, I'd go for:

    1. Color Spray (wonderful debuff), Grease (solid battlefield control), Shield (excellent protection), Silent Image (super-multi-purpose)
    2. Alter Self (multi-purpose buff), Glitterdust (excellent debuff), Invisibility (multi-purpose buff)
    3. Haste (excellent frontline buff), Stinking Cloud (outstanding debuff and battlefield control)
    4. Solid Fog (ultimate battlefield control)
    what if you were a conjurer with 25 int?

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    what if you were a conjurer with 25 int?
    I wouldn't play core then


    Edit: What are your prohibited schools?
    Last edited by Malachei; 2012-11-15 at 12:02 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    I wouldn't play core then


    Edit: What are your prohibited schools?
    At the moment, necromancy and enchantment, but in a few levels I plan to retrain to elven generalist wizard.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    At the moment, necromancy and enchantment, but in a few levels I plan to retrain to elven generalist wizard.
    Although PHB II allows this, personally, I wouldn't.

    But this makes spell selection easier:

    1. (4+2+1) -- Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Silent Image
    2. (3+2+1) -- Alter Self, Glitterdust, Invisibility*, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, Web
    3. (2+2+1) -- Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Slow
    4. (1+1+1) -- Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, Wall of Fire


    * If Greater Invisibility provides enough invisibility per day, you might prefer Detect Thoughts, instead.

    The above assumes you don't want to take Polymorph. Of course, situationally, other choices may be better.
    Last edited by Malachei; 2012-11-15 at 01:57 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachei View Post
    Although PHB II allows this, personally, I wouldn't.

    But this makes spell selection easier:

    1. (4+2+1) -- Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Silent Image
    2. (3+2+1) -- Alter Self, Glitterdust, Invisibility*, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, Web
    3. (2+2+1) -- Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Slow
    4. (1+1+1) -- Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, Wall of Fire


    * If Greater Invisibility provides enough invisibility per day, you might prefer Detect Thoughts, instead.

    The above assumes you don't want to take Polymorph. Of course, situationally, other choices may be better.
    Hmm, interesting selection, why alter self if I may ask? I personally picked it up as disguise, because.. well, lets just say there was a mishap and we're wanted in a nearby town.

    Edit: Also, why not retrain to generalist? My main reasoning behind it is because I have a custom made relic that the DM designed before this character entered the campaign (not my first character >.> I've lost a few) that enhances a character's Illusion, Enchantment and Necromancy (me and the rogue had a good laugh when the DM was explaining its powers after we got it legend lored), so I figured I may as well retrain to generalist to take advantage of that.
    If the reason is solid enough, I suppose I could stick to conjurer and just take advantage of the illusion boost, but I definitely wouldn't be able to pick restricted schools that aren't of those 3.

    Edit2: Also quick question, I'm planning on going Wiz 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3, Which 2 schools would be good to get spell focus in for archmage?
    Last edited by Crake; 2012-11-15 at 03:16 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Hmm, interesting selection, why alter self if I may ask? I personally picked it up as disguise, because.. well, lets just say there was a mishap and we're wanted in a nearby town.
    Alter Self is amazing. You can get up to 6 Natural Armor from Trogdolyte in combat, you can get Swim or Fly-speeds, you can disguise as anything, you can gain natural attacks, it's a supremely versatile spell. And 10 min/level on a second level slot. This compendium may help you on what exactly you can acquire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Edit2: Also quick question, I'm planning on going Wiz 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3, Which 2 schools would be good to get spell focus in for archmage?
    Archmage 5 > Loremaster 10. I suggest going Wiz 7/Loremaster 8/Archmagus 5

    And Spell Foci? Conjuration is a gimme; Conjuration has some of the most brutal save-or-Xs and they can target every save (Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud; you get all 3 saves by level 3 and then just keep going). The second one is a bit harder; Transmutation and Illusion are up there. They have a lot of save-or-Xs and are pretty versatile. If you plan on using Shadow Anything, you probably want Illusion. Illusion also has the most double saves (though those spells aren't usually very good, at least not for offense) so if you plan on using any of them it's something to consider.

    Things like Illusionary Darkness, Illusionary Walls and such (things you can create with images) are nice for saves; you can communicate your allies they're illusions while enemies need to save the hard way.


    Evocation's saves are almost all reflex so that's a bit of a waste and you can pick the Evocations without save anyways. Abjuration has precious few saves in general, but Necromancy can be decent. There's few decent save-or-Xs there though Transmutation is probably a better option (still, Magic Jar is Necro and absolutely hilarious).

    So I'd go Conjuration and Transmutation.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Alter Self is amazing. You can get up to 6 Natural Armor from Trogdolyte in combat, you can get Swim or Fly-speeds, you can disguise as anything, you can gain natural attacks, it's a supremely versatile spell. And 10 min/level on a second level slot. This compendium may help you on what exactly you can acquire.



    Archmage 5 > Loremaster 10. I suggest going Wiz 7/Loremaster 8/Archmagus 5

    And Spell Foci? Conjuration is a gimme; Conjuration has some of the most brutal save-or-Xs and they can target every save (Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud; you get all 3 saves by level 3 and then just keep going). The second one is a bit harder; Transmutation and Illusion are up there. They have a lot of save-or-Xs and are pretty versatile. If you plan on using Shadow Anything, you probably want Illusion. Illusion also has the most double saves (though those spells aren't usually very good, at least not for offense) so if you plan on using any of them it's something to consider.

    Things like Illusionary Darkness, Illusionary Walls and such (things you can create with images) are nice for saves; you can communicate your allies they're illusions while enemies need to save the hard way.


    Evocation's saves are almost all reflex so that's a bit of a waste and you can pick the Evocations without save anyways. Abjuration has precious few saves in general, but Necromancy can be decent. There's few decent save-or-Xs there though Transmutation is probably a better option (still, Magic Jar is Necro and absolutely hilarious).

    So I'd go Conjuration and Transmutation.
    I'd prefer to go Loremaster 10 simply because of the huge role that knowledge checks and the legend lore spell have played in the campaign thus far. Also it fits very well with my character theme, he has every knowledge skill at at least 5 ranks right now, with arcana and the planes maxed for Loremaster entry. BOOKS!

    Anyway, Conjuration focus does seem like a good choice, and probably one I will take, but Illusion, Transmutation and Necromancy all look like great second choices right now.
    Transmutation sure does look nice with slow, baleful polymorph, reduce person, flesh to stone, telekinesis, man the list just goes on.
    Edit: ahh, they all have so many great spells >_<
    Last edited by Crake; 2012-11-15 at 04:12 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I had no idea greater magic weapon lasted an hour per level, after hearing that it's definitely something I'm going to add to my collection.
    Stoneskin I actually already have on my list, and also have a bit (1200gp worth) of diamond dust leftover from when we raided a spell component storehouse in the dungeon we're in. So enough for 4 uses, minus any we use for restoration and whatnot.
    You can always get party members to buy diamond dust if they want stoneskin. That's what I usually do, anyway.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Personally, I prefer Heart of Earth to Stoneskin, since there isn't an expensive material component, lasts hours/level, and has some nifty bonuses (especially when paired with the other spells in the Heart of X line), but there is that downside of being a Personal Spell, instead of a Touch Spell. If you're looking to buff others in the party, Stoneskin is better.

    MrRigger

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    For spell focus I'd go conjuration + whatever else you cast. For a general purpose caster no other school really jumps out with a lot of useful save negates spells. You might argue that one school is a hair better but really you should look at your prepared spells and pick the school with the most save negates among those. And maybe count the save partial spells as half a spell for this purpose.

    Looking at your current spells known list I see:
    illusion: 1/2
    evocation: 1 (1/2 x 2)
    transmutation: 1
    abjuration: 1

    But really it depends which ones you prepare, which might also include some of the new spells you are deciding on. And yet you have a half dozen conjurations that are save negates or save partial. This is what I mean by saying that the 2nd school isn't so clear cut. It depends entirely on what spells you prepare and whether or not they even have saves. And really if it's only one spell, the question is "Which spell is your favorite and does your 2nd spell focus even matter that much anyway?"
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-11-16 at 01:39 PM.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by MrRigger View Post
    Personally, I prefer Heart of Earth to Stoneskin, since there isn't an expensive material component, lasts hours/level, and has some nifty bonuses (especially when paired with the other spells in the Heart of X line), but there is that downside of being a Personal Spell, instead of a Touch Spell. If you're looking to buff others in the party, Stoneskin is better.

    MrRigger
    I do so, too, but his first post stated his game is core spells only.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Ok, with pyrotechnics, teleport, wall of ice and haste added to my book I'm now sitting at 4750gp left. I want to save some for a ring of sustenance, about 3000gp, just in case the shopkeeper doesn't like me or something, so with that, I have about enough money left for either another 5th, a 4th and a 3rd, or some lower level spells. Maybe pick up stuff like ray of enfeeblement and enervation in case I don't have resources available when I become a generalist?

    Edit: Or not. Just recalculated my cash, I had some horrible rounding errors or something, I'm actually only at 3225gp.
    Last edited by Crake; 2012-11-16 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Don't forget to keep some cash on hand; you may need to bribe a guard or beg for a healer's help if things get messy.
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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudain View Post
    Don't forget to keep some cash on hand; you may need to bribe a guard or beg for a healer's help if things get messy.
    Nah, we have a party fund for things like that, this is my personal stash. I keep it in a miniature portable hole that comes with my kick ass robe, along with various other things like a scrying mirror, magic item crafting components and my spellbooks. I even have some cockatrice feathers in there incase I feel like I need to petrify someone.
    Last edited by Crake; 2012-11-16 at 06:20 PM.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Ball lightning, from spell compedium, might be worth researching. It's like a much more powerful flaming sphere. There's also Vortex of Teeth.

    Flaming sphere on it's own is great, and even better when combined with pyrotechnics, although the second one might be less useful since, as you said, most of your enemies have good saves.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomguy View Post
    Ball lightning, from spell compedium, might be worth researching. It's like a much more powerful flaming sphere. There's also Vortex of Teeth.

    Flaming sphere on it's own is great, and even better when combined with pyrotechnics, although the second one might be less useful since, as you said, most of your enemies have good saves.
    Flaming sphere itself is save negates, so good saves kinda make it just as pointless. That said, I never considered it's conjunction with pyrotechnics. Our druid can cast it, so I wont bother getting a copy for myself, but its definitely something we could co-ordinate.

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Ask your DM how pyrotechnics and continual flame play together. Then see if anyone in your party may be willing to get continual flame on their weapons. *grin*
    78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.

    I had the players hauled out of bed in the middle of the night by the local mayor. They were each handed a bag of stuff the town was able to throw together at the last second and were told, "We have no idea what's going on but we need you to find our local cleric. She was supposed to arrive from the north an hour ago!"

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudain View Post
    Ask your DM how pyrotechnics and continual flame play together. Then see if anyone in your party may be willing to get continual flame on their weapons. *grin*
    And instead of actually casting continual flame, just summon a Lantern Archon, so you can get it cast for free a bunch of times with just one spell slot.

    EDIT: You'd need Summon Monster 4 for that, though, but it's a good spell anyway (I think).

    Double EDIT: Wow. I can see why summoning spells are so useful: If you don't have the right spell, you can just summon something with that spell as a spell like ability and it can fight for you, too. Neat.
    Last edited by Randomguy; 2012-11-17 at 12:18 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Malachei's Avatar

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomguy View Post
    Double EDIT: Wow. I can see why summoning spells are so useful: If you don't have the right spell, you can just summon something with that spell as a spell like ability and it can fight for you, too. Neat.
    Indeed, and behold, there is more information for you: here (includes list of SLA gained through summoned monster).

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Crake's Avatar

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    Hey guys, good news: I got all the spells I wanted. Bad news: I died twice in one session D=

    First resurrection was a true res from a cursed monkey paw that cost the paladin 2 permanent (unrecoverable by any means) Con drain, coupled with the initial 1 con drain from resurrecting the druid who died alongside me (drains 1 more con each time, so 1+2+3+4, fifth just outright kills you)

    Second death occurred moments before the end of the session. So I'm stuck dead. Good news: If I can get a true res, I'll res, get xp from the fight and level to 8. Bad news: If I get a regular res, I'll drop to 6 and the xp from the fight wont get me to level 7 D=

    I'll have to see how it pans out on tuesday, but I'd like to thank everyone who's posted in this thread for all their wonderful help.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: 1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

    How did you die?

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