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    Default Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Ok, I am trying to give crafting a go but the part about improving items is a bit confusing. So let me see if I get this straight and please correct me if I am wrong.

    Let's assume I am crafting a "belt of one mighty blow" base price 1,500 gp.
    That means that for crafting it I need to pay 750 gp and pay 60XP?

    Base price (BP) -1/2 in gold and 1/25 base price in xp? (BP 1,500 x .5 = 750 GP, BP 1,500 25 = 60 Exp.

    Now if I was to add to this belt the properties of "belt of growth" BP 3,000 gp the book says to do the following:
    if original item (O) BP is < the price of new addition use that OBP X .5 and add it to the new item (N) BP. In this case it will look like this?

    OBP 1,500 x .5 = 750 gp + NBP 3,000 = 3,750 final price? Is this my base price that I need to split in half to find the crafting gold and xp? or is this what I have to pay period and calculate xp from 3,750 which will be 150xp?

    So now this item's BP is 3,750? and if I was to add to it a "belt of battle" property which has a BP of 12,000 the final price for this enhancement will be 13,875gp and 555 xp?

    So I just spent 765 xp total and 18,375 gp for this entire item?
    ___________________________________________

    What if I start with the highest Item first? the "belt of battle" 12,000 gp + the belt of growth 3,000 gp.

    the book says to multiply the new item's price by 1.5 and that is the cost to be added.

    so I just built the "belt of battle" for 6,000 gp and 240 xp. to add the new item is 4,500 gp + 180 xp. for a total of 16,500 gp item value?

    adding now the "belt of one mighty blow" for 1,500 X1.5= 2,250 gp + 90 xp? For a total item value of 18,750? and I spent 12,750 gp + 510 xp?


    So the obvious way of doing it is to start from highest GP item and go down, but doesn't make much sense if you are supposed to be able to build upon as you gain levels. Anyway am I doing this wrong or right? is there a easier to follow formula somewhere for crafting when it comes to adding or stacking item effects? Thank you.

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    Kelb_Panthera's Avatar

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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    I know you've misunderstood something, because the amount you pay for a magic item is never more than half it's final base cost. (barring cost reduction shennanigans.)

    Let's take a look at that first example again.

    We start with a belt of one mighty blow at 1500 base cost.

    Creating it in the first place cost you 750gp and 60xp. So far so good.

    Now we want to add that belt of growth, which independently would have a base price of 3000. The total price of the new belt would then be the higher of the two effects, plus half the price of the lesser; 3750. This would cost 1875gp + 150xp, but you've already payed the first 750gp + 80xp, so you only have to pay an additional 1125gp + 70xp to meet the new cost.

    Then we want to add a belt of battle effect to the above.

    Again, we add the price of highest price effect to half of each of the lower cost effects.

    12000 + (1/2*3000) + (1/2*1500) = 14250gp for the new bace price. This would normally cost 7125gp + 570xp, but you've already payed the first 1875gp + 150xp, meaning you only need to pay 5250gp + 420xp more to reach the final costs.

    The trick is that you're supposed to recalculate the whole thing as though you were starting from scratch then subtract what you've already payed each time you add a new effect.
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    Thumbs up Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    The trick is that you're supposed to recalculate the whole thing as though you were starting from scratch then subtract what you've already payed each time you add a new effect.
    This right here is basically a summary of all combined crafting calculations, for anything.
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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Now we want to add that belt of growth, which independently would have a base price of 3000. The total price of the new belt would then be the higher of the two effects, plus half the price of the lesser; 3750. This would cost 1875gp + 150xp, but you've already payed the first 750gp + 80xp, so you only have to pay an additional 1125gp + 70xp to meet the new cost.
    No, it's the cost of both together plus an additional half the lesser price. 3000 + 1500 + 750 = 5250. The "half the lesser price" is an extra markup, not a discount.

    Alternatively, the highest price plus 1.5 times the rest. 3000 + 2250 = 5250.

    Adding a Belt of Battle to the mix makes it 12000 + 1.5*3000 + 1.5*1500 = 12000 + 4500 + 2250 = 18750.

    In any case, calculate the price of what you've already got, calculate the price of what you're upgrading to as if you were making it from scratch, and base everything on the difference between the two.
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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    For a page reference, check out the sidebar on page 282 of the DMG.

    The "Multiple Similar Abilities" is strictly for items that don't occupy a space, such as Ioun Stones. Keep in mind that such items are already at a double-price markup for not taking an item space, per the table on p285.

    The "Multiple Different Abilities" section covers pretty much any combination of items that occupy a space, except for those properties listed on p234 of MIC. It's a 50% markup for each additional item's properties combined into another item, but you can count the most expensive property as the one that doesn't get increased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    The trick is that you're supposed to recalculate the whole thing as though you were starting from scratch then subtract what you've already payed each time you add a new effect.
    This is exactly how it works. Going by your original example, you make a Belt of One Mighty Blow valued at 1,500 gp at a cost of 750 gp and 60 xp.

    You then upgrade that to a Belt of Growth + One Mighty Blow. The end result costs (3,000 gp) + (1,500 gp x 1.5) = 5,250 gp. That costs you an additional 1,875 gp and 150 xp.

    Next you can upgrade it to a Belt of Battle + Growth + One Mighty Blow, the total base price of which would be (12,000 gp) + (3,000 gp x 1.5) + (1,500 gp x 1.5) = 18,750 gp. That will cost you another 6,750 gp and 540 xp in crafting costs.

    If the item takes up a space on your character, all but the most expensive property get a +50% base price. If the item doesn't stake up a space on your character and all the abilities are similar, you get some discounts but everything's base price is doubled first so there's really no actual discount at all. In any case the item must retain properties you've already paid for, but anything you've already paid toward what it has gets subtracted from what you pay to upgrade it to the new version.

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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    No, it's the cost of both together plus an additional half the lesser price. 3000 + 1500 + 750 = 5250. The "half the lesser price" is an extra markup, not a discount.

    Alternatively, the highest price plus 1.5 times the rest. 3000 + 2250 = 5250.

    Adding a Belt of Battle to the mix makes it 12000 + 1.5*3000 + 1.5*1500 = 12000 + 4500 + 2250 = 18750.

    In any case, calculate the price of what you've already got, calculate the price of what you're upgrading to as if you were making it from scratch, and base everything on the difference between the two.
    I knew that, but I got distracted by focusing on the larger error.

    Do note however that the lesser effect gets a 25% discount instead of a 50% markup if the abilities the items grant are similar. (the rules are unfortunately ambiguous about what exactly "similar" means.)
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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    -Scratches head- I am a little dizzy now... but i am going to try to build something on my own and then bring it here for discussion and corrections, especially similar abilities and all that. (Gosh I feel like I am in school again! LOL)

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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Do note however that the lesser effect gets a 25% discount instead of a 50% markup if the abilities the items grant are similar. (the rules are unfortunately ambiguous about what exactly "similar" means.)
    All precedent and examples are consistent that "similar" really means that the abilities are mutually exclusive such that you can never fully benefit from both at once. One common way this can be done is for activated abilities with limited numbers of uses that share their pool of uses. For example, staves, which have all the spells draw from the same pool of 50 charges.

    Another way would be to have two abilities that don't stack with each other. Regardless of how it's done, the idea is that already having one ability makes getting the other genuinely less valuable.
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    Default Re: Confused on MIC crafting rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    All precedent and examples are consistent that "similar" really means that the abilities are mutually exclusive such that you can never fully benefit from both at once. One common way this can be done is for activated abilities with limited numbers of uses that share their pool of uses. For example, staves, which have all the spells draw from the same pool of 50 charges.

    Another way would be to have two abilities that don't stack with each other. Regardless of how it's done, the idea is that already having one ability makes getting the other genuinely less valuable.
    These are all reasonable inferences and I agree with your reasoning. Unfortunately the WotC boys decided -not- to actually put that in print anywhere.

    "Similar" is left entirely to DM adjudication. Of course, custom crafting is also entirely by DM adjudication, so that's a lot less of a problem than it otherwise might've been.
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