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Thread: Brawler

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Brawler

    I am the DM of a game and a PC just wanted to use this as a "barfighter"
    and wants to use him in a HIGH kill game. What do you think of it?


    Str - 18
    Dex - 13
    Con - 12
    Int - 12
    Wis - 12
    Cha - 10

    Feats:

    Power Attack
    Improved Bullrush
    Improved Grapple
    Multiattack
    Improved Unarmed Strike
    Superior Unarmed Strike
    Endurance
    Diehard
    Blind Fight
    Improved Sunder
    Battle Jump
    Cleave
    Jack of All Trades

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Brawler

    It should have at least 13 in Int in order to take Jack of all trade.
    It should have more in Con, you can take some points from Wis.

    You should give more info like what class does your PC want to take and are you allowing Tome of battle?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Brawler

    My bad, the class is fighter, and I allow all books, anything in print is acceptable.

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    Default Re: Brawler

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue1005 View Post
    I am the DM of a game and a PC just wanted to use this as a "barfighter"
    and wants to use him in a HIGH kill game. What do you think of it?


    Str - 18
    Dex - 13
    Con - 12
    Int - 12
    Wis - 12
    Cha - 10

    Feats:

    Power Attack
    Improved Bullrush
    Improved Grapple
    Multiattack
    Improved Unarmed Strike
    Superior Unarmed Strike
    Endurance
    Diehard
    Blind Fight
    Improved Sunder
    Battle Jump
    Cleave
    Jack of All Trades
    By "high kill game" do you mean that you expect to die a lot? Because with 12 Con you certainly will.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Brawler

    He looks like he will have a high likelihood of getting killed, yes.

    Why multiattack? Is this a monster race with more than three natural attacks?

    If he's planning to fight mostly unarmed, imp sunder and PA/cleave seems like a bad choice. If he's set on barfighting, I'd look at using a goliath (powerful build) and at least switch to dungeoncrasher fighter (dungeonscape).
    Now you can start making PA/cleave work by picking up Knockback. Also, I'd have him check out Oriental Adventures for more unarmed combat feats.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Brawler

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    By "high kill game" do you mean that you expect to die a lot? Because with 12 Con you certainly will.
    1. Needs more Con, or else he will get killed easily. 14 at MINIMUM, 16 if you want to be safe.

    2. Post more info; level, race, class, expected party composition.

    3. His mentals are dead weight, except for Wisdom, which can remain at 12. Dump Int & Cha, increase Con.

    4. Imp Grapple/Sunder/Bullrush are very weak feats. If you're in a very low-op environment ("Monks are overpowered! Nerf Rogues!"), it could work. Imp. Bullrush is fine on a Dungeoncrasher, but is otherwise far too situational to be effective.

    5. Why does he have Jack of All Trades on a Fighter? Fighters are the definition of "bad at skills", with a measly 2+Int, and the system all but commanding you to dump mentals. Might as well dump it for Great Cleave so you can pretend to be good against mobs.

    6. What is Multiattack doing for him?
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    Sugashane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Brawler

    Con is terrible, as the others have said.

    If he is a fighter but is going to be using unarmed strikes, one of the only ways you can make him stand a chance is by allowing him to use the monk's unarmed strike damage at his character level. Allow him to be large or at least have a powerful build, then allow him to do more damage. This would also imporve the usefulness of the improved grapple, as large size would add another +4 to his rolls.

    As far as weapons, you might allow him to wear enchanted gauntlets or a pair of ward cestus to keep relevance with enchanted longswords and the like. Ki strikes just don't really compete.

    I would switch out improved bullrush for improved trip, or jack of all trades. An AoO as they get up is always welcome, especially if there are more than one person within range. 3 skill points per level is basically not worth noting.

    He may also want to look more at barbarian as well. I've never seen a barfight that showcased a lot of skill, but a drunken-fueled rage is a constant. lol

    I have been part of groups where the DM allowed improved grapple/trip/etc to be taken multiple times, stacking as they did. This would be more beneficial than the cleave feat for this build, at least until a huge monster comes along.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Brawler

    Others in the party are a Sorc 12, unoptomized
    Barb 12
    Rogue 12



    I think he is leaning towards human.

    High Kill rate as in PC deaths, and LOTS of monsters.

    I honestly dont understand his idea, but am trying to help him figure it out.

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    Default Re: Brawler

    If you check the Homebrew forums, there are a large number of rather well-made Brawler classes *coughsandpointsatsig* that you could take a look at.

    Con 12 is a problem, but assuming this was dice-rolled, he may not have had a choice in the matter.

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    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: Brawler

    A bar fighter without levels in Drunken Master?

    Human Cobra Strike Monk3/Fighter2/Drunken Master7

    1 Blind Fight (Human), Great Fortitude (Standard 1st), Dodge (Monk bonus), Unarmed Strike (Monk)
    2 Mobility (bonus Monk)
    3 Power Attack
    4 Improved Bull Rush
    5 Dungeon Crasher I
    6 Shock Trooper
    9 Leap Attack
    11 Improved Feint (bonus Drunken Master)
    12 Superior Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple (bonus Drunken Master)

    You'll need to put cross-class ranks into Tumble for the two Fighter levels to qualify for Drunken Master. But assuming you have a Monk's Belt, you'll be getting 2d6+1d8 damage out of each improvised attack that hits. Stagger will help him with mobility issues (sounds like it's a target-rich environment) as well as getting the most out of Shock Trooper. The saves (particularly Reflex, with Evasion) will make things a bit easier for the sorc if he's playing a blasty guy.

    (If ToB is in play, you could almost certainly achieve a better result with Unarmed Swordsage, but if the other characters are low-op, you might want to hold off).
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Brawler

    Sticking to Fighter for all 12 levels is a bit rough, but how about this for a generic "Barfighter" feat progression:

    The Barfighter
    Monk 2/Barbarian 3/Drunken Master 7
    Apprentice (Philosopher) [1st], Poison Healer [Human], Great Fortitude [Flaw], Dodge [Flaw], Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk1], Combat Expertise [Monk1], Improved Trip [Monk2], Knowledge Devotion [3rd], Supreme Unarmed Strike [6th], Knock Down [9th], Improved Feint [DM6], Improved Grapple [DM7], Improved Natural Attack [12th]

    Class-based Abilities
    AC Bonus (Wis +1 to unarmored ac but you also have the option of strapping on medium armor)
    Unarmed Combat (2d6 per unarmed strike)
    Flurry of Blows (still at -2)
    Evasion
    Pounce (through the Complete Champion acf)
    Whirling Frenzy (through the Unearthed Arcana acf)
    Uncanny Dodge
    Trap Killer (through the Dungeonscape acf)
    Drink like a Demon
    Improvised Weapons (dealing 2d6+1d8 per strike)
    Stagger
    Swaying Waist (+2 to AC)

    Feat-based Abilities
    Through Poison Healer he can heal himself a low amount (his constitution modifier) every time he successfully saves against a poison. Alcohol is a poison, so this guy heals himself by pounding drinks. Knowledge Devotion supplies a way to turn Knowledge: Local (as provided by Apprentice: Philosopher) into a bonus to attacks & damage, in addition to making the character tied to the inner-workings of the world of bars. Finally Knock Down allows your character to initiate a trip attack, for free, whenever he deals more than 10 points of damage to an opponent. This is where his main form of combat comes as he should be easily getting 10 points of damage on anyone who fights him in a bar (and once they're on the ground, the fight is going to turn real nasty for them).

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