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Thread: Dark Chaos Shuffle
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2012-11-20, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Dark Chaos Shuffle
Open feat choices are typically required by the rules to be made before the completion of level up. Floating feats like Chameleon gets are rare. the point was to point out that you have to create an open feat choice (feat slot) to slot the abyssal heritor. You gain an Open feat choice at points as specified in rules im not going to quote because it is a long section.
actually, the problem im refferencing is how the example for feat retraining is completely stupid and non-informitive, not explaining in alternate form how the thing works other then ok, you cant take a feat that requires +8 BAB when you have +3 BAB. ya, that is blatantly obvious, show us something that better explains other instances of the rules.
and Embrace doesnt specify that it prevents instances of the rules like Fighter: bonus feats from breaking the combo. While the explosion of the rules is undefined, you absolutely cant keep the abyssal heritor feat long enough to get it shunned out.Last edited by toapat; 2012-11-20 at 01:13 AM.
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2012-11-20, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Dark Chaos Shuffle
Citation needed on the bold. It's certainly a logical conclusion, but it's not in the RAW.
All the book says is that you must've met the prerequisites for the new feat at the time you took the feat you're replacing.
There's nothing in the text to clarify that you must take a feat you could've legally taken under the same restrictions as the feat you're replacing. Neither is there anything that says you must replace a bonus feat recieved as a class-feature by retraining the class-feature.
By strict RAW you could replace a fighter bonus feat with an abyssal heritor feat, even without the spell; or a metamagic, or skill focus, or what-have-you.
It's a truly egregious oversight, but it's an oversight that was made, nonetheless.
Naturally, I would never allow this to fly in an actual game but RAW is RAW, anything else is a houserule no matter how sensible.
Why shouldn't we ignore a thing that doesn't exist?
Your argument actually got weaker as this discussion went on, since the rules you highlighted don't even do what you say within themselves when they do apply, so I really don't understand why you haven't conceded the point.Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-20 at 01:17 AM.
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2012-11-20, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Dark Chaos Shuffle
The opening words of the Retraining section itself, prefacing all retraining, not just feats specifically.
PHB2 pg 192.
The most basic level of character revision is retraining - that is, adjusting a decision you made earlier in your character's career by selecting a different legal option.
Naturally this is the rules for retraining, the Chaos shuffle suffered no such restrictions.Last edited by TypoNinja; 2012-11-20 at 01:56 AM.
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2012-11-20, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: Dark Chaos Shuffle
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2012-11-20, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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2012-11-20, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dark Chaos Shuffle
Just a quick note here, I've been reading about feat slots and such. Quick analogy for now.
If a feat, bonus or other, is like a cloak of charisma +2 (shoulders slot), using embrace/shun is like getting a pink and green ioun stone (cha +2) (now slotless). As long as the the PC qualifies for the feat (has enough wealth to buy it).Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
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