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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Cranthis's Avatar

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    Default Super Skill build!

    I am making build entirely around having as many skill ranks in everything as possible. Now of course, this means starting out as a human rogue with able learner, or a Human Factotum, possibly with or without able learner, depending on Multiclassing in build.

    So far, I know I should take Able learner, Nymph's kiss, and the Open Mined feat.

    As well as the Exemplar Prestige class.

    What are your reccomendations? Especially build wise, such as rogue vs Factotum.

    Edit: I will be using flaws for bonus feats, and one feat before level 10 must be skill focus whatever.

    Edit 2: I could also use Changeling substitution for 10 skillpoints a level, for rogue anyways.
    Last edited by Cranthis; 2012-11-14 at 07:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Do you want just the highest number of skill ranks, or are you aiming for the highest skill check in the broadest number of areas. If it's the latter, investment in classes that allow you to take 10 are worth gold.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Level 20

    - Be a Black ethergaunt (FF, pg. 65)
    - Start with 18 Int +20 racial for a grand total of 38
    - Take Nimph's kiss, use every other feat on Open Mined, take the standard two flaws.

    - Enjoy ( 8 + 1 + 14 ) x 19 + 35 = 472 skill ponts, without counting ability increases.
    - Cast 9th level arcane spells with insane DCs on top of that.
    Last edited by docnessuno; 2012-11-14 at 07:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    If you want mega-high skill checks, not just skill points, you may be well served to delve into some serious Incarnum. Specifically, look into something along the lines of

    Rogue 1 / Factotum 3 / Incarnate 5 / Umbral Disciple 10 / Exemplar 1

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Be a Changeling and take the Changeling Rogue substitution level as your first level giving you 10 + int skill points and a free knowledge skill as a class skill (and delicious boosts to your social skills).

    Changelings also qualify for Able Learner (as mentioned in the Chameleon's adaptation section).

    Aside from the first level Factotum and Rogue are pretty equal. Factota have all skills as class skills which really helps with Able Learner. The Rogue however gains more skill points. Of course there's no reason not to have levels in both classes.

    As for PRCs, aside from Exemplar there's also Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) which is pretty skillsy.

    Edit:
    I suggest you pump up intelligence and charisma as high as possible. Take 3 levels of Factotum for Brains over Brawn, take a 1-level dip in Marshal for one of the Motivate Ability auras and take the Keen Intellect feat (Dragon Magazine #315).

    So maybe something like: Changeling Rogue 1 / Factotum 3 / Marshal 1 / x 2 / Uncanny Trickster 3 / Exemplar 10.
    Last edited by Diovid; 2012-11-15 at 04:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    What do you want to have skills in? Having lots of skills is great but so is having fewer skills where you really need them.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diovid View Post
    So maybe something like: Changeling Rogue 1 / Factotum 3 / Marshal 1 / x 2 / Uncanny Trickster 3 / Exemplar 10.
    More Factotum. Cunning Knowledge lets you add your Factotum level to skill checks (1/day each), so more levels in Factotum is probably better for overall skill bonuses than Uncanny Trickster. I don't see UT adding much to this build (no spellcasting to progress, same skill points as regular rogue, a few skill tricks). Factotum 8 is the point where you also get the tasty Cunning Surge, which doesn't directly help your skill bonuses, but could give you the chance to cast a buff spell or use more than one skill per round in an encounter.

    I would do Changeling Rogue 1/Factotum 8/Marshal 1/Exemplar 10. Even Exemplar doesn't necessarily need to go to 10.

    Has anyone mentioned Item Familiar yet?

    Depending on how your DM feels about the Swordsage (x6) at first level, you could do that too.

    Of course if you're looking for skill RANKS, specifically, just go Human with whatever classes have 8+int skill points per level. If virtual ranks are ok, take Bard 20 with Bardic Knack to get 10 virtual ranks in ALL skills that don't have any ranks. Jack of All Trades feat to use them untrained (assuming your DM allows them to work together that way).

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diovid View Post
    Be a Changeling and take the Changeling Rogue substitution level as your first level giving you 10 + int skill points and a free knowledge skill as a class skill (and delicious boosts to your social skills).
    Good call.

    Aside from the first level Factotum and Rogue are pretty equal. Factota have all skills as class skills which really helps with Able Learner. The Rogue however gains more skill points. Of course there's no reason not to have levels in both classes.
    But Factotums have more incentives to boost Intelligence, and gain other abilities (Cunning Knowledge and Brains over Brawn) that boost skills a LOT compared to Rogue class features. So Factotum comes out ahead overall in terms of skill use.

    As for PRCs, aside from Exemplar there's also Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) which is pretty skillsy.
    Ooh, forgot about that one. Good point. I'm refining my suggestion to be:

    Rogue 1 / Factotum 3 / Incarnate 2 / Uncanny Trickster 3 / Umbral Disciple 10 / Exemplar 1

    ... with Uncanny Trickster 2&3 used to progress Incarnate class features. This has the added advantage over my previous suggestion of avoiding XP penalties for multiclassing, assuming you pick a race with Favored Class: Rogue (i.e. Changeling) and stagger your Factotum and Incarnate levels. Awesome.

    and take the Keen Intellect feat (Dragon Magazine #315).
    An oft-banned source, but a cool feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by prufock View Post
    Has anyone mentioned Item Familiar cheese that very few DMs will allow yet?

    Depending on how your DM feels about the Swordsage (x6) at first level blatant abuse of obvious typos, you could do that too.
    FTFY.

    If virtual ranks are ok, take Bard 20 with Bardic Knack to get 10 virtual ranks in ALL skills that don't have any ranks.
    Oh yes, that's a good option to mention. This is one of the best ways to be an extremely skilled character, and it's done without rabid multiclassing. Note that the Improvisation spell (SpC) is a crucial component of this build. And that well-built Bards are awesome in general.

    Jack of All Trades feat to use them untrained (assuming your DM allows them to work together that way).
    Personally, even if the DM houseruled JoAT to work like this (which he should, since by RAW it does absolutely nothing), I'd still rather buy 1 skill rank in each important Trained-Only skill, rather than spend a feat on it. Bards need their feats elsewhere.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2012-11-15 at 04:18 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    I don't believe I will be using incarnate. But all the other advice is great.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    An elf bard with bardic knack and elf dilettante gets half his levels (rounded up) plus one to all skills in which he doesn't have any rank.

    It is not like having loads of skill ranks but it is still a good way of dealing with most skill checks that might come around.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    FTFY.
    Ha! Yeah, I'm well aware, but some DMs are rules-literal; it says it in the book, it must be true! As for Item Familiar, they're very good, but not THAT broken. My biggest beef with them is the xp issue, and the fact that you're putting an awful lot of faith in an item not being lost, destroyed, or stolen.

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Pump up Use Psionic Device [which generally means going factotum for all skills as class skills] and procure power stones of both the Fusion and Astral Seed powers, along with Use Magic Device and scrolls of Ice Assassin, Polymorph, and Bestow Curse.

    Now, use Ice Assassin to create yourself a wyrmling prismatic dragon, Polymorph yourself into something Huge sized and manifest Fusion on it, followed by Bestow Curse on yourself (as per the Book of Vile Darkness) to age yourself to great wyrm status, and Astral Seed. Decouple yourself from the prismatic dragon and commit suicide in some manner of your choosing. Now you can come back as a gestalted great wyrm prismatic dragon, with all the skill ranks and feats from both of you. Retrain all of your feats as Open Minded and all your skill ranks into whatever you want.

    Now you have the skill ranks of a level whatever factotum and a level 78 dragon. Have fun with that.
    Last edited by Rubik; 2012-11-15 at 05:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Pump up Use Psionic Device [which generally means going factotum for all skills as class skills] and procure power stones of both the Fusion and Astral Seed powers, along with Use Magic Device and scrolls of Ice Assassin, Polymorph, and Bestow Curse.

    Now, use Ice Assassin to create yourself a wyrmling prismatic dragon, Polymorph yourself into something Huge sized and manifest Fusion on it, followed by Bestow Curse on yourself (as per the Book of Vile Darkness) to age yourself to great wyrm status and Astral Seed. Decouple yourself from the prismatic dragon and commit suicide in some manner of your choosing. Now you can come back as a gestalted great wyrm prismatic dragon, with all the skill ranks and feats from both of you. Retrain all of your feats as Open Minded and all your skill ranks into whatever you want.

    Now you have the skill ranks of a level whatever factotum and a level 78 dragon. Have fun with that.
    We dont use Psionics.
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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranthis View Post
    We dont use Psionics.
    Wow. You guys are missing out on some great classes. There are only a few broken tricks (see above), but they are doozies.
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    -Unskilled writers use "said" and "asked."
    -Skilled writers use "whispered," "shouted," "questioned," "demonstrated," "ejaculated," "murmured," "explained," "queried," and "demanded."
    -Masterful writers use any of them very sparingly.

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubik View Post
    Wow. You guys are missing out on some great classes. There are only a few broken tricks (see above), but they are doozies.
    Yeah, In the next campaign we do, I'm going to try and get them in. Just for the new experience.
    Admiral Cranthis, Inventor of the Cranthis (Sandwich) and the Gnomish Paratroopers, and rider of Chuckles, the dire pig.

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    Default Re: Super Skill build!

    It will take a lot of gold, but look into buying your way into as many feats as possible, and use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to turn them into Open Minded and other useful skill-based feats.

    There are the magical location feats, of course, but there are tons of other feats from items, most of which cost about 10,000 gp each (but when crafted can be REALLY cheap), and numerous of them are weapon enhancements that can be added to multiple weapons (see: braid blades, elbow blades, knee blades, boot blades, spiked gauntlets, etc etc etc) so you can nab literally hundreds of feats if you've got enough money to play with. Note that according to the Magic Item Compendium, you can lift enhancements off of specific items and add them to others [like, say, the pearl trident's abilities, from Stormwrack].

    Scorpion's armor [Sandstorm]
    Serpent's armor [Savage Species]
    Bands of the iron monkey [Dragon Compendium]
    Shield of arrow deflection [Magic Item Compendium]
    Pearl trident [Stormwrack]
    Breaking blade [Arms & Equipment Guide]

    etc.
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    -Unskilled writers use "said" and "asked."
    -Skilled writers use "whispered," "shouted," "questioned," "demonstrated," "ejaculated," "murmured," "explained," "queried," and "demanded."
    -Masterful writers use any of them very sparingly.

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