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Thread: PC Debate

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default PC Debate

    Ok so lets go over this.

    The group is in a secret underground government base. They were all kidnapped and brought here. The PC's are between 13-15 years of age.
    They have super capabilities from technology or drugs. They have also found out that the place is run by nuclear energy.
    Above them is a nest of nasty insecticidal, cat, snake monsters. Which they may(will) have to pass on there way out.
    They have just rescued 40 other trapped kids who are all around them in the places barracks

    So the group is

    Rin a artist who had her arms removed to test the effects of transplanted limbs. She now has robo-arms and the T-1000(Effectively) with her

    John a rich kid who has the ultimate predator(take the best of every hunter) at his beck and call

    Paige a street urchin who has picked up psychic abilities along with the ability to phase.

    Hanako a burn victim with access to a acidic goo monster with a Portal A.I Core as its drive thing

    Jones a girl which is completely normal and has sadly picked up emotion based blood powers and monster made of blood.


    So the group is talking about the Nuclear Reactor. Using the telepathy of Paige. Rin's player thought we were still doing this, most of us did(sometime we had stopped) and she said so what are we going to do about the effective nuclear bomb under our feet.
    So the Gm rolls and 4 people overhear this. Immediately Paige removes the memories, and starts freaking out at Rin for saying that.
    She later goes on to say it is all Rin's fault and, that Rin forced her hand into removing those memories.
    Immediately after doing this Paige says she takes one of Rin's memories. The player fails the roll to figure out she is lieing. Which for some reason was not a Insight but a Remember.
    So she is claiming she feels bad about doing it to 4 random people but is spiteful enough towards the character IC to do that.
    Her entire reason is because the character which is Rin can't be told to do things cause she's well a cloudcookolander. Quietly just doing things and helping not causing any damage to plans.
    Paige has assumed that the NPC's will begin to freak out learning there is a nuclear reactor below them. When the group has access to 3 different ways to cause groups of people to relax and calm down. If not out right restrain them. The player is so aggressive about this they turn the Gm to there side saying that the people will immediately freak out and panic. The player does not believe people can be calm and rational about this in any fashion.

    So Paige blames Rin for the taking of some peoples memories
    States that everything about the situation was Rin's fault
    Does not believe people can be rational or calm when they learn their is a bomb below them.
    Does not believe people can be calm in a situation which there has been no injuries or deaths even though they could all have died. Along with the fact every person has had decent amount of sleep(6-9hours) when its been over the course of 1 day.
    Will not accept responsibility as the trigger man with the final decision on pulling the NPC's memories.

    So playground how many of these points are true by Paige's players perspective and how many fall under that person underestimating people/just pushing things until it got there way.

    And here is a combat one

    The game also had a few other gems. Such as the Rin trying to punch out Paige for taking a memory. And getting blocked... Problem the system works that people declare actions based on how intelligent they are so if your the smartest person in the room no one knows what your doing so you have a element of surprise to sucker punch people.
    Rin falls under the smartest person category so Paige cannot know about it even with psychic powers.
    Later Rin tries it again this time she gets it cause the player talked with the Gm about it. Even loudly declaring all the facts why no block(When Paige's player tried to block again). Wanting the attack to leave a black eye but no actual permanent damage was there plan. Which in this system is not something one needs to roll for especially on a unprepared opponent. Gm states can either punch Paige in the shoulder or actually try to roll and Paige gets to oppose... Bull****.

    The system has a rule unless its opposed or there is a setback(basically something needs to be worth rolling to actually be rolled) then you roll. Otherwise it happens.
    Since an attack wasn't trying to do actual damage(Damage heals at the end of a scene) it shouldn't have been a issue.

    So playground what is your opinion on a character trying to leave a black eye simply so there is a black eye with no negatives or actual damage. In a system which is built on such a thing happening and playing out with no actual die rolls
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Stab in the dark here, but are you Rin? Cuz you certainly sound like you want Paige to be wrong.

    Truthfully, this would have all hinged on whether the GM would have chosen to make them panic before Paige said anything or not. As for the punch, there's nothing stupider than a GM who chooses to ignore mechanics to suit them to the detriment of players. If it should have been an unopposed roll than it should have been an unopposed roll. GM was being a **** by allowing it to be opposed if mechanics dictated otherwise.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kalmarvho's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Vknight View Post
    The system has a rule unless its opposed or there is a setback(basically something needs to be worth rolling to actually be rolled) then you roll. Otherwise it happens.
    Since an attack wasn't trying to do actual damage(Damage heals at the end of a scene) it shouldn't have been a issue.

    So playground what is your opinion on a character trying to leave a black eye simply so there is a black eye with no negatives or actual damage. In a system which is built on such a thing happening and playing out with no actual die rolls
    Well, the black eye is clearly just cosmetic and really more signifies that 'someone was angry, things were said, punches were thrown'. So it's not really a big deal, except that the other player WANTED to oppose. The fact that things devolved between the characters to get them into a punch-throwing-state - regardless of actual mechanical impact - should be enough, whether or not the other player was 'allowed' to oppose or not.

    Although I'm with BootStrapTommy on this, the GM dicked up.

    Is this character conflict, or is it starting to devolve into OOC conflict? Because you might have bigger problems if it's the latter.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    An RPG is literally a system for resolving conflicts. It sounds like you had conflicts so you've got two options: use the game rules to resolve them or reframe your positions until there is no conflict between you.
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Well the first one if the bigger thing.

    Yeah I'm Rin I was leaving that out to make it unbiased. And even if I was not Rin I would still be siding with another player that choose Rin's actions.

    No not OOC conflict just yet we are decent friends just both high strung and tonight got a little more heated cause the Bipolar of the two of us was manic and the one with anger issues was. So we were a powder keg anyways.

    Yeah its in the rules they work this way. Re-frame until late is always a good idea, we just spent the last hour or so being sappy and just talking
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Issue number 1 sounds perfectly in-character for 13-15-year-old PCs. I can't comment much on the rules question since I don't know the system, but it sounds like having a black eye is enough of a "setback" to justify an opposed roll.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    1. As far as I can tell being concerned that people will go crazy when they find out a bomb is beneath them is justified. Mainly because these are not rational people, these are children/teenagers. To quote Men In Black:
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
    However, these are kids that seemed to have been traumatized in some way by some group that built the facility in the first place. At the same time players should remember they are on the same team when mentioning something to the detriment of the group to the GM.

    Conclusion: I like it when monkey wrenches are thrown into a game by other players, so I would just go with the flow.

    2. If the players both agree for it to happen let it happen. I do sometimes make a player roll a check just to add game mechanics to something. Don't want them going to each player and just give them all black eyes.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    CarpeGuitarrem's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Nuclear reactor != nuclear bomb. A reactor uses a controlled explosion to produce energy; a bomb unleashes the full energy of an explosion to destroy things. Furthermore, nuclear reactors are built with so many failsafes that the only possible way for them to go wrong is by meltdown, and as long as people are on the ball (which, on very rare occasion, they are not), the reactor can be stopped before then.

    Also...Rin and Hanako...I see what you did there.

    Regarding the first situation (the facts which Paige is asserting), she's definitely too absolutely certain about them (in my opinion); I think there's wiggle room there. On the other hand, I can understand OOC how the game developed towards that point...

    By and large, this sounds like something that ought to be dropped and moved past, though, so long as you can get on the same page about how to handle similar situations.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    The first one is what bothers me more so
    Just the player is also asserting that it is entirely Rin's fault, Paige had to remove memories. In the end Paige has the trigger and pulled it. She didn't like doing it. It makes sense but she's(And her player are trying to say), Paige did not pull the trigger Rin did.
    Where as I'm stating Rin had the initial cause, and anyone else could have cause a similar situation or the kids could find out. But in the end Paige did what she did and wasn't being forced into it.
    I'm was merly saying there is that wiggle room, but Paige's player does not see it.

    Yeah not saying its not I think its perfectly fine it happened how it did. Makes sense for the characters.
    Yeah if the player feels it is but they still wouldn't get to react, it would have been fine if only Rin needed to roll.

    Yeah we talked about it after the game and accepted to disagree.
    The final disagreement did Rin's action force Paige into removing memories. And I think & said no.
    I respect the other guy deeply. We just had this big almost argument(rather then discussion) about it.

    @CarpeGuitarrem
    She said, we have a Nuclear Reactor below us that has been left without maintenance for we don't know how long(A minimum of 4 days). Shouldn't we tell everyone so they don't go downstairs without supervision/protection.

    Yeah I wanted to make a arm-less artist. Half way in realized I made Rin, so I named her the same. Hanako was just that player deciding to play with that. The funny thing is Hanako and Rin are building a sort of romance


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: PC Debate

    Sounds to me like a communication/not taking your meds issue, not a game issue.

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