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Thread: Martial Scripts

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Martial Scripts

    Rereading the Martial Scripts segment of Tome of Battle, I don't see any reference to limited uses per day nor to the script being consumed by use. This item is rarely referenced, probably because is makes little sense, but the ability to pick up a free stance for a none initiator seems like something that would be discussed more.

    Am I missing something, or are Scripts merely underappreciated?

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    A martial script is a small strip of paper or cloth marked with delicate lettering that holds the secret of a martial maneuver. Any given script grants the use of the maneuver recorded on it for one encounter. Once it is activated, a script vanishes in a puff of white smoke.
    So, it's a one use item that gives you a maneuver for a single encounter- and if it is a normal maneuver, that means one use within that encounter, unless you're an adept that can refresh maneuvers.

    Generally, you're better off just picking up one of the wondrous items that gives you a maneuver permanently. They're fairly cheap.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    They would stick that in the fluff section. I still think it is good for stances, but it certainly explains why they aren't popular.

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Do ever leave a stance unless you end it? Would that mean that I could get one stance script and then just remain in that stance indefinitely?
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    IIRC you only end a stance when you change into another stance or voluntary leave it.
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by pffh View Post
    Do ever leave a stance unless you end it? Would that mean that I could get one stance script and then just remain in that stance indefinitely?
    That is my understanding, yes. Want SA? Buy a script!

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    There's also the problem where stances aren't maneuvers. They have a clause that lets them count as maneuvers for the purposes of maneuver prereqs, but otherwise, they're a separate mechanic.

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.
    Only problem is that this reading makes regular scrolls reusable too. "The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated."

    But "vanish" is used in a variety of ways in core. It could mean "becomes invisible" as you suggest, or even "becomes ethereal" (from Blink) or "gets destroyed" (Disintegrate.) So the DM would still have to arbitrate; there is no RAW here.
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    IIRC you only end a stance when you change into another stance or voluntary leave it.
    You also lose the stance if you're ever rendered helpless.

    This means you must never sleep, amongst other things, if you want to always have the stance.

    The RAW on whether stances are maneuvers that can be put into martial scripts is ambiguous at best. I could easily imagine a DM ruling it either way. I allow it in my game, but YMMV.
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    The RAW on whether stances are maneuvers that can be put into martial scripts is ambiguous at best. I could easily imagine a DM ruling it either way. I allow it in my game, but YMMV.
    I tried using that to bootstrap Martial Stance's prerequisites once, but then ran into ToB p.43: "A stance is not a maneuver."

    And from there, it seems pretty clear-cut.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-11-15 at 09:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Even if you could have a script of a Stance, I wouldn't find it overpowered to make it last a day. There's spells with 24 hour duration you can get scrolls of. This isn't that much of a stretch.

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    I tried using that to bootstrap Martial Stance's prerequisites once, but then ran into ToB p.43: "A stance is not a maneuver."

    So from there, it really seems pretty clear-cut.
    Also, same page, "Stances are considered maneuvers for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites for learning higher-level maneuvers, or qualifying for prestige classes or feats."

    This list is pretty exclusive, does not seem to include martial scripts. But eggs, you should have been good to go.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2012-11-15 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    This list is pretty exclusive, does not seem to include martial scripts. But eggs, you should have been good to go.
    The problem was the Martial Stance feat's maneuver prereq, which doesn't have that allowance, even if the stance itself is fair game.

    EDIT: Huh. I don't know how we missed the PrC/feat prt there. Looks like that would have worked.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-11-15 at 09:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Martial Scripts

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    The problem was the Martial Stance feat's maneuver prereq, which doesn't have that allowance, even if the stance itself is fair game.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToB, p31
    MARTIAL STANCE
    Prerequisite: One martial maneuver.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToB, p43
    Stances are considered maneuvers for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites for learning higher-level maneuvers, or qualifying for prestige classes or feats.
    I really don't see the problem, other than ensuring that you time the stance around when you gain a level. Of course, the timing problem goes away with chaos shuffle, but there's already a thread arguing that.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2012-11-15 at 09:27 PM.
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