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Thread: What are the Planeswalkers?
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2012-11-15, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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What are the Planeswalkers?
Recently someone asked about the Fellowship from LoTR and it was such a great discussion with my friends. Most were astonished how much Gandalf is comparable to a Ranger, others went into a long discussion about it.
Which then begged the question, what about other fantasy characters?
So, I'm wondering everyone's opinion on what the first 5 planeswalkers from Magic the Gathering, Chandra Nalar, Jace Beleran, Garruk Wildhunter, Lilliana Vessel, and Ajani Goldmane.
Granted, Magic is no where near as popular as Lord of the Rings, but I thought it would be a good discussion regardless. Any thoughts and opinions would be great!!~//~ Feed the Fox! ~//~
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2012-11-15, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
Planeswalkers are so powerful within the Mt:G lore, I'd say we pretty much have to go with Tier Ones for everybody. Chandra's an evoker, Jace is an enchanter, and Lilliana is a necromancer. The other two don't really work as wizards, but I'd peg Garruk for a Druid and Ajani for a cleric.
Actually, Chandra may not be a wizard. She might be a mailman-style sorcerer."It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players..."
--Gygax
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2012-11-15, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
The simplest answer is that they are high-level spellcasters and gishes. Perhaps with some form of template that unifies them and grants them the ability to planehop.
To define them in other systems, we have to nail down what they have in common. They all share certain attributes, such as "can cast spells" and "can travel to other planes." I don't have any of the novels though, so it's hard for me to pin down much beyond that; perhaps some folks from the M:TG thread will pop in to further discuss.
Also, I see Jace as more a Diviner than Enchanter if we were going to try to define them that narrowly.Last edited by Psyren; 2012-11-15 at 12:31 PM.
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2012-11-15, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
Tezzeret is an artificer.
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2012-11-15, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
At the heart of all beauty lies something inhuman, and these hills, the softness of the sky, the outline of the trees at this very minute lose the illusory meaning with which we clothed them, henceforth more remote than a lost paradise.
-Camus, An Absurd Reasoning
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2012-11-15, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
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2012-11-15, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
He obliterated a continent before he was a Planeswalker, that kinda sets a standard of power there. And Freyalise brought the continent back. And Teferi did the whole moving of landmasses out of time.
Old bolas was a god before he got stripped of his power. New Bolas and Karn are probably Deity level 0 characters.
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2012-11-15, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
First off, forgive me for my opening fallacy.
Also, great discussion so far! I totally agree that Jace would be a Diviner for sure. The first 5 are probably pretty easy to pin like you all said.
Now, what about someone like Koth the Hammer, Gideon Jura, Elspeth, or even Sorin Markov? These characters are so much different, I have a much harder time figuring out what class they would be.~//~ Feed the Fox! ~//~
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2012-11-15, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
All duplicatable with the epic magic system, no need for any of them to be higher than level 24 or so. Teleport through Time and Genesis are 9th level spells, there's no reason they couldn't be duplicated on a grander scale fairly early on with a bit of DC mitigation.
The newer ones are probably a bit lower leveled, somewhere in the 8-20 range varying by scene. Remember that DnD has a completely schizo power level, many things in it are far easier than they are in most fiction(flying, teleporting, enlarge person) and others are far harder(Mindrape, anything blasting related, Binding type magic).
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2012-11-15, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
The real question: What about Yawgmoth?
Last edited by Eugenides; 2012-11-15 at 07:05 PM.
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2012-11-15, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
Urza ight just be a lv 20 Artificer. Dude had a lot of free time and access to TO.
Last edited by Acanous; 2012-11-15 at 07:15 PM.
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2012-11-15, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
always wondered if it would be worth reading through the MT: G books, as books based around a game tend to be bad... though I wonder if it wasn't the reverse.
Also, If I recall some flavor text(great source there...) Urza had a ton of minions... so maybe leadership?
edit: also, the problem with using D&D as a yard stick is the scaling. At the high end you have stuff that gods would be doing(hell, before epic). At the low end being killed by a cat.
So, you really need to figure what spells they are using... or what level you would put those spells at.Last edited by bobthe6th; 2012-11-15 at 07:22 PM.
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2012-11-15, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-15, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
For most of the new ones the notable ability is to essentially cast Planeshift with the accuracy of Gate.
For the old ones, they could cast spells on a continental scale or better (Serra essentially Dimension Locked an entire plane, and had Urza and Mishra not messed it up it would have lasted forever).
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2012-11-15, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What are the Planeswalkers?
Interestingly, the Nether Scroll Planar Mechanus chapter:
- Plane Shift 1/day (can planeswalk - not 100% accuracy, but it doesn't seem to be that way in any case in the Neowalker novels).
- Immunity to hostile or debilitating planar effects (survive in the Blind Eternities).
Sounds roughly approximate to a Planeswalker to me. At most, they'd just have a template with Plane Shift (or Greater Plane Shift) as a spell-like ability, and something that prevents them from dying in the Blind Eternities. Since they seem to spontaneously cast spells that they know from personal "mana stores" I'd peg them as Sorcerers, and theme their Spells Known around their specialties. Jace has enchantment spells (if he's 18th level or higher, which is quite possible, he likely has Mindrape), Chandra has evocation (lots and lots of fire, fire admixturing, and so on), Liliana has necromancy. Ajani might actually be a favoured soul drawing on the Druid spell list. Tezzeret is definitely an Artificer. Sorin is probably a Fighter/Sorcerer [Necromancy focus] with Eldritch Knight levels and the Vampire + Vampire Lord templates. Elspeth feels like a paladin.
Nicol Bolas would be an Advanced Colossal Great Wyrm Black Dragon Sorcerer 20 with Divine Rank 0. Or something ridiculous like that.