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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    • Guns are noisy! No..
    If you're quoting Wikipedia, cite the correct article.

    Gunpowder still explodes, and you can reduce the sound, but note that the ~140 dB that a suppressed .22 produces is still the same volume as a jet engine (albeit for a much shorter time). Subsonic rounds are only slightly quieter.

    But if you're going to use game mechanics from some games to generalize about all RPG settings, I don't see how this discussion can be productive.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    If you're quoting Wikipedia, cite the correct article.

    Gunpowder still explodes, and you can reduce the sound, but note that the ~140 dB that a suppressed .22 produces is still the same volume as a jet engine (albeit for a much shorter time). Subsonic rounds are only slightly quieter.
    I didn't know they are that loud
    Well I guess that may be one valid reason to use non-gunpowder based weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    But if you're going to use game mechanics from some games to generalize about all RPG settings, I don't see how this discussion can be productive.
    Well if you know a modern-setting game where there is a valid reason to use something different than guns then bring up the example

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Well if you know a modern-setting game where there is a valid reason to use something different than guns then bring up the example
    1. Difficulty of acces. Yes you can make a character with access, but thats extra resources (contacts on the black market and forgers) which could be spent elsewhere.

    2. What if you don't want to kill the target? E.G. some mafia thugs want to beat up a witness to intimidate them into not testifying.

    3. Legal issues. What if the story takes place in Europe?

    4. Precision. Hitting the head with a knife can often be easier than hitting the head with a gun.

    5. Forensic counter measure. With a gun, you are generally going to be leaving behind bullets. Might not matter that much in a real life based setting, but with magic it might become significantly easier to track you down.
    Last edited by Boci; 2012-11-16 at 04:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by scurv View Post
    But as a soft rule of thumb, it takes one and a half seconds to draw a gun if my memory serves me. That means the person with a knife drawn ten feet away is armed, and you are not. if you are the one with the holstered gun
    I'll have to stop you there. This assumes that the knife wielder has the advantage, it can easily go both ways depending on the situation. Knives have to be unsheathed, sometimes in similar ways to guns depending on the type of holster. A friend of mine has a holster that is designed to make sure the blade does not fall out and would require a similar unholstering time as a gun. At the same time some gun holsters are built for quick draws.

    It all boils down to a case by case basis. The difference involving distance, skill, and a boatload of other variables too numerous to name.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Knives aren't as silent as one might think. People tend to make noise when you stick bits of metal in them, whether at high or low velocity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    But if you're going to use game mechanics from some games to generalize about all RPG settings, I don't see how this discussion can be productive.
    To be far most games take unrealistic approaches with everything. Honestly its unfair to assume that realism should factor at all into this conversation if games take liberties with such concepts.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    I didn't know they are that loud
    Well I guess that may be one valid reason to use non-gunpowder based weapons.

    Well if you know a modern-setting game where there is a valid reason to use something different than guns then bring up the example
    An interesting semi-modern/futuristic idea is that of Flechette/Needleguns. They are guns that utilize springs/coils to fire darts at high velocity. I say semi-modern because I only know about them from the book Neuromancer. The idea is that they make little noise yet act similarly to gunpowder guns.

    As far as Martial Arts over Guns:
    In the Spycraft System while there are options for gun fighters, the martial artist class is by far the most broken. There is a point where martial artists can do more damage then C4, because they have trained so much. If you have Wuxia maxed out you can effectively do an orbital drop without taking any damage.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Knives aren't as silent as one might think. People tend to make noise when you stick bits of metal in them, whether at high or low velocity.
    True, but its possibly to stab someone in a way that won't allow them to do so. And even if they do, a scream of pain/fear is still not as attentino worthy as a gunshot.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Needlers are a sci-fi staple actually. Not as common as blasters or some other unrealistic depiction of lasers, but they are pretty common. They appeared at least once in one of Anne McCaffrey 'Ship who Sang' stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    True, but its possibly to stab someone in a way that won't allow them to do so. And even if they do, a scream of pain/fear is still not as attentino worthy as a gunshot.
    It's not as loud, but we are evolutionarily designed to be able to pick those kinds of sounds up. Depending on how far between guards, and they should be fairly close, it wouldn't be unreasonable.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-11-16 at 04:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    I was delighted in a white wolf campaign that the kinsfolk opted to use firearms to do the dirty deed.

    It made a big bang, NPC_0021 called the cops, And we let the good times roll.

    But the level of realism in a game is up to the DM/Programmer and the players.
    If you wish to have a voice chat, Send me a PM and we can arrange it. Provided you use skype.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    1. Difficulty of acces. Yes you can make a character with access, but thats extra resources (contacts on the black market and forgers) which could be spent elsewhere.
    If you are in a game where you kill stuff you will need those contacts anyway. And resources you save on acquiring fists/melee weapons you have to spend to match fire arms effectiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    2. What if you don't want to kill the target? E.G. some mafia thugs want to beat up a witness to intimidate them into not testifying.
    Intimidate them with the gun not to move and have your buddies start the beat up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    3. Legal issues. What if the story takes place in Europe?
    You don't want to kill anything with a registered gun. Anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    4. Precision. Hitting the head with a knife can often be easier than hitting the head with a gun.
    In every RPG I played you get a fixed penalty for trying to hit small target, it doesn't depend on what weapon you use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    5. Forensic counter measure. With a gun, you are generally going to be leaving behind bullets. Might not matter that much in a real life based setting, but with magic it might become significantly easier to track you down.
    It's easy to remove real-life evidence (fire a lot of bullets in training session). Mystical connection established by you using bullet will be overwritten by the bullet making pretty intense contact with your target... unless you miss :/

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Whoa a lot of responses... there are many concerns that are valid in real life but not in RPG I'll try to summarize them and answer why I think they don't apply to RPG characters:
    • It's troublesome to get a gun that you can freely use to kill people in real life, but everyone has fists and knifes! Well in RPG you can just put a few points in place where you'd want them anyway (wealth and black market access) and get illegal fire arms, ammo and fake permits from back story.
    • Most people don't carry around guns 24/7! That's because they have regular lives, your character doesn't so it should have no problem with that.
    • Most people aren't proficient with guns! Yeah, but RPG systems don't care if you spend XP on Firearms proficiency or bare fist fighting, it costs the same.
    • But it's easier to get knife into secured place! No. And if you plan to take on heavily-secured place bare fist...
    • Guns are noisy! No..
    • Guns jam, run out of ammo etc. ! That's why you carry more than one gun and extra ammo.
    • But if guy with a knife is next to you you are screwed! Not in any RPG I played.
    • But knifes, axes,... have extra utility! So carry them around for utility, not for combat.


    Also guns can out damage melee and unarmed fighting (with the same investment) in any (modern) RPG I played. And have range advantage.



    Thanks
    Have you ever shot a silenced pistol, man? The whole, pting pting, James Bond stuff is a joke. It still sounds like a gun and it is still fairly loud. It just doesn't travel far. In melee range, a machete has an advantage over a rifle. It's clumsy. Saying, "Draw a pistol!" doesn't explain away the advantage of teleporting in front of someone with a sword. You can be out of ammo for multiple guns or they can both jam, too.

    Besides, physical strength comes into play with melee weapons. If you are a super strength person, you can dish out more damage with them. Also, just because you are a player character doesn't mean you can automatically get a hold of illegal weaponry. It may be hard to do in the setting. Further, sometimes improvised melee or fisticuffs is all you can do as sometimes you won't be able to get any weapon behind a security checkpoint.

    Besides, you STILL need non-gun weapons for those people who can't access guns or grab a baseball bat or what-have-you.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    True, but its possibly to stab someone in a way that won't allow them to do so. And even if they do, a scream of pain/fear is still not as attentino worthy as a gunshot.
    Sneaking onto someone, holding them helpless and silent and slicing their throat on top of that seems extremely hard.

    You could try to sneak on them, render them unconscious with a single hit (that will make little noise) and kill after that. But is you typically can't one-shot enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by scurv View Post
    I was delighted in a white wolf campaign that the kinsfolk opted to use firearms to do the dirty deed.

    It made a big bang, NPC_0021 called the cops, And we let the good times roll.

    But the level of realism in a game is up to the DM/Programmer and the players.
    Would a big brawl draw less attention? Or wouldn't NPC_0021 not call cops "because they are killing each other with non-ranged weapons"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
    As far as Martial Arts over Guns:
    In the Spycraft System while there are options for gun fighters, the martial artist class is by far the most broken. There is a point where martial artists can do more damage then C4, because they have trained so much. If you have Wuxia maxed out you can effectively do an orbital drop without taking any damage.
    I have to check it out some day

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    My counter-point to this is simple: it's easier to make make-shift explosives from kitchen supplies, than it is to legally carry a gun around. The most abundant weapons are not guns, but various types of knives and axes. You'll get into less legal trouble if you beat someone with a stick, than if you shoot them. And finally, even soldiers, who usually have guns, are trained to bash their enemies with a shovel if necessary.

    This assumes the PCs are not professional soldiers, law-enforcers, or criminals. And even they need stats for knives, batons, blackjacks, unarmed combat, shovels, pepper spray, tasers, artillery, bazookas, grenades, mines etc., for those times a gun won't cut it. Perhaps literally.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuaqchi View Post
    Continuing with the value of blades a simple statistic here. Until the mid 1980's the weapon with the greatest number of kills in human history was the Gladius.
    I would like to see the research papers on that claim, because I find it highly implausible. Seeing that the spear was the most common weapon in the world for, I dunno, like 7000 thousand years, I find it hard to believe that a weapon of such limited usage could top headcount.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    I would like to see the research papers on that claim, because I find it highly implausible. Seeing that the spear was the most common weapon in the world for, I dunno, like 7000 thousand years, I find it hard to believe that a weapon of such limited usage could top headcount.
    Spears are so great. Cheap and easy to make and an amateur with a spear vs. amateur with a sword goes to the spear guy, since he attacks first. I'd doubt favor polearm kills in general over sword kills. Knife kills, though, I could easily believe as topping spear kills.
    Last edited by SowZ; 2012-11-16 at 05:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    Have you ever shot a silenced pistol, man? The whole, pting pting, James Bond stuff is a joke. It still sounds like a gun and it is still fairly loud. It just doesn't travel far.
    Nope. I don't remember James Bond firing silenced pistol either, those movies make me fall asleep. My knowledge on silenced guns comes solely from playing Counter Strike... come to think of it knifes were extremely deadly there.

    However if you fail to insta-kill human with melee weapon the human will become at least as noisy as a gun shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    In melee range, a machete has an advantage over a rifle. It's clumsy. Saying, "Draw a pistol!" doesn't explain away the advantage of teleporting in front of someone with a sword. You can be out of ammo for multiple guns or they can both jam, too.
    That's why you kill them before they get into melee range
    And guns work surprisingly good in melee range in most RPGs (it's something like -1 damage on average).

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    Besides, physical strength comes into play with melee weapons. If you are a super strength person, you can dish out more damage with them.
    That's one of points where RPG differs greatly from real life. See in real life you can be born a super strength person. Then it makes sense to use that strength and go melee. In RPG you can choose to be a super strength person and use that in melee. Or you could just as easily choose to be a super dexterity person and use that in ranged combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    Also, just because you are a player character doesn't mean you can automatically get a hold of illegal weaponry. It may be hard to do in the setting. Further, sometimes improvised melee or fisticuffs is all you can do as sometimes you won't be able to get any weapon behind a security checkpoint.
    Yeah I guess if DM bans guns they are not a good option

    [QUOTE=SowZ;14235193]Besides, you STILL need non-gun weapons for those people who can't access guns or grab a baseball bat or what-have-you./QUOTE]

    So RPG system should describe how non-gun weapons work. That doesn't mean PCs that want to be effective combatants should invest in those combat forms.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    If you are in a game where you kill stuff you will need those contacts anyway.
    You are playing as group of university students who decide to take justice into their own hands. Good luck justifying to the GM your pre-existing contacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Intimidate them with the gun not to move and have your buddies start the beat up.
    Or not, since taking a gun to a situation where not killing is the aim can be a bad idea, if they struggle someone might shoot it out of reflex.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    In every RPG I played you get a fixed penalty for trying to hit small target, it doesn't depend on what weapon you use.
    In D&D you cannot flank with a range weapon, so SA can be tougher.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    It's easy to remove real-life evidence (fire a lot of bullets in training session).
    You want to start rooting through the corpse of someone you just shot to death?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Mystical connection established by you using bullet will be overwritten by the bullet making pretty intense contact with your target... unless you miss :/
    Not in V:tM. Spirirt touch will link the bullet back to you, not the person you shot.
    Last edited by Boci; 2012-11-16 at 05:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    My counter-point to this is simple: it's easier to make make-shift explosives from kitchen supplies, than it is to legally carry a gun around. The most abundant weapons are not guns, but various types of knives and axes. You'll get into less legal trouble if you beat someone with a stick, than if you shoot them. And finally, even soldiers, who usually have guns, are trained to bash their enemies with a shovel if necessary.

    This assumes the PCs are not professional soldiers, law-enforcers, or criminals. And even they need stats for knives, batons, blackjacks, unarmed combat, shovels, pepper spray, tasers, artillery, bazookas, grenades, mines etc., for those times a gun won't cut it. Perhaps literally.
    Some statistics
    At least in the United States, getting access to a firearm isn't that hard for someone who wants to acquire one, with about 25% of adults owning at least one.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    My counter-point to this is simple: it's easier to make make-shift explosives from kitchen supplies, than it is to legally carry a gun around. The most abundant weapons are not guns, but various types of knives and axes. You'll get into less legal trouble if you beat someone with a stick, than if you shoot them.
    Depends on where you live.

    In the US guns are the murder weapon of choice by a huge margin, fairly easy to get legally in most of the country, and in a number of states can be carried concealed anywhere except certain public buildings like schools and courthouses. On the other hand, cooking up explosives (or buying the materials to do so) is a great way to get a couple of black vans full of BATFE / DHS Agents with assault rifles and balaclavas to come in and whisk you away to a Federal Supermax Prison, if you're lucky, or Guantanamo Bay if they think you're linked with terrorism.

    And in terms of legal trouble, from a PCs perspective anyway, a 5 year prison sentence for Assault isn't any better than a 25+ year prison sentence for Murder; either way they are completely out of the game unless the other PCs are game for a prison break.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob.Tyr View Post
    Show me a system that has stats for a half-brick in a sock, and I will buy it from you on the spot.
    GURPS' "Discworld" supplement, since you ask.

    And I'm going to be the boring kill-joy guy; there is no such thing as a 'best' weapon, only 'most appropriate'.

    In many situations knives and swords are really, really great.... unless (just for example) you want to kill all of Hiroshima in 30 seconds, in which case history suggests there might be a better way.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    My counter-point to this is simple: it's easier to make make-shift explosives from kitchen supplies, than it is to legally carry a gun around.
    Guns are more selective. Usually you want to do something more than just kill. But for times when you are just killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    The most abundant weapons are not guns, but various types of knives and axes. You'll get into less legal trouble if you beat someone with a stick, than if you shoot them.
    Well the advice in the article was for character that want to kill enemies. I think killing people with knifes is just as legally-troublesome as killing them with guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    And finally, even soldiers, who usually have guns, are trained to bash their enemies with a shovel if necessary.
    Hmm. I'll think about that. I really wish I could find that [cut] article. Some time ago it kept popping up all the time and now I can't find it for the tea of mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    I would like to see the research papers on that claim, because I find it highly implausible. Seeing that the spear was the most common weapon in the world for, I dunno, like 7000 thousand years, I find it hard to believe that a weapon of such limited usage could top headcount.
    Could be because of very detailed weapon categories. If you divide "spear" category to bazilion sub-categories glaudius might win.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Not in V:tM. Spirirt touch will link the bullet back to you, not the person you shot.

    2. Why? Technically the bullet is contaminated with the life essence of someone else. I don't know how Spirit Touch works, but if I was playing a detective game in the setting I might take that out, since it would be pretty overpowered. What makes something owned by someone else?

    If I handed my knife to a friend and he stabbed someone and left it in them would it tell a Spirit Touch that I killed the man or that my friend did it?

    What if I took the bullets from another man's gun? Are they mine or the guy's I took from?

    This concept of ownership is why I didn't really like the ending of Harry Potter. "Because I stole Malfoy's wand the Elder wand see's me as its master now. Even though he and I never actually touched the elder wand in the first place." Doesn't make sense to me.
    Haggis is Sheep's stomach filled with its intestines.

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
    2. Why? Technically the bullet is contaminated with the life essence of someone else. I don't know how Spirit Touch works, but if I was playing a detective game in the setting I might take that out, since it would be pretty overpowered. What makes something owned by someone else?
    A bit more than the connection that the object happened to penetrate your flesh?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
    If I handed my knife to a friend and he stabbed someone and left it in them would it tell a Spirit Touch that I killed the man or that my friend did it?
    You would show up as the owner most likely (story tellers call), but with enough successes they would know your friend had used it. Assuming the knife is found.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontEatRawHagis View Post
    This concept of ownership is why I didn't really like the ending of Harry Potter. "Because I stole Malfoy's wand the Elder wand see's me as its master now. Even though he and I never actually touched the elder wand in the first place." Doesn't make sense to me.
    You are confusing ownership with touch. Its problomatic, but the above example made sense. You had to beat the previous owner of the wand to gain mastery of it, touch never came into play, so remove the second sentance and replace stole with "disarmed, and thus defeated" and it makes sense.
    Last edited by Boci; 2012-11-16 at 05:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    You are playing as group of university students who decide to take justice into their own hands. Good luck justifying to the GM your pre-existing contacts.
    The character smokes weed. That gives the character some criminal contact(s). The character lived in poor neighborhood, now half of the kids it knew are criminals (sure you didn't see each other for a while but you can find them). Your friend was dragged into organized crime (you didn't like it but now that you decided to do justice on your own it will be useful).

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Or not, since taking a gun to a situation where not killing is the aim can be a bad idea, if they struggle someone might shoot it out of reflex.
    That's why only a PC holds a gun. They do not fire on reflex

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    In D&D you cannot flank with a range weapon, so SA can be tougher.
    Oh. I forgot about D&D Modern existence. This might be a reason... But is SA any good in D&D Modern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    You want to start rooting through the corpse of someone you just shot to death?
    No. Fired bullets stay where they landed. After you are done shooting you go to train shooting. You fire a lot of bullets (and destroy them). Gun balistics change, no one can confirm that the bullets at crime scene were fired from your gun (if someone can find your gun, which should not be registered).

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Not in V:tM. Spirirt touch will link the bullet back to you, not the person you shot.
    Victim touched bullet when the bullet was killing it. The discipline tracks back to the last person touching it (that is victim).

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    The character smokes weed. That gives the character some criminal contact(s). The character lived in poor neighborhood, now half of the kids it knew are criminals (sure you didn't see each other for a while but you can find them). Your friend was dragged into organized crime (you didn't like it but now that you decided to do justice on your own it will be useful).
    Neither of those are going to get you access to firearms in Britain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    That's why only a PC holds a gun. They do not fire on reflex
    Ever failed a self-control roll?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Victim touched bullet when the bullet was killing it. The discipline tracks back to the last person touching it (that is victim).
    The wording is "handled", not touched. Nice try.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Frozen_Feet's Avatar

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Istari View Post
    Some statistics
    At least in the United States, getting access to a firearm isn't that hard for someone who wants to acquire one, with about 25% of adults owning at least one.
    I didn't talk about owning. My family owns 10+ guns. The point was about carrying them, ie. having them around when you need them.

    Want to go into grocery store? A bar? Your workplace? A School? Want to leave your gun unattended into your car? All of these are illegal where I live (Finland).

    Bomb-making really is easier by comparison.

    You can't conceal something like a rifle. Even (effectively) concealing a handgun means it won't be as readily available as you'd like. In civilian situation, you will have better luck defending yourself by hands, or by any of the various bladed implements commonly lying about.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Neither of those are going to get you access to firearms in Britain.
    Ok, I have no idea how to get (illegal) fire arms in Britain. But if you are basically playing in no-guns setting then of course guns are not a viable option.

    "Characters grandpa hid some weapons after WW2, which the character discovered when it was cleaning up attic after death of said grandfather. They may be old but were kept in good condition" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Ever failed a self-control roll?
    Not when it was important, that's why we have willpower in WoD

    And what the guy could do to force self control roll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    The wording is "handled", not touched. Nice try.
    You are right about discipline wording. Hmm.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    I didn't talk about owning. My family owns 10+ guns. The point was about carrying them, ie. having them around when you need them.

    Want to go into grocery store? A bar? Your workplace? A School? Want to leave your gun unattended into your car? All of these are illegal where I live (Finland).

    Bomb-making really is easier by comparison.

    You can't conceal something like a rifle. Even (effectively) concealing a handgun means it won't be as readily available as you'd like. In civilian situation, you will have better luck defending yourself by hands, or by any of the various bladed implements commonly lying about.
    I think carrying bombs around isn't legal either
    And in combat it's pretty hard to use bombs without killing your self.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Ok, I have no idea how to get (illegal) fire arms in Britain. But if you are basically playing in no-guns setting then of course guns are not a viable option.
    Its more a setting when it is difficult to start with guns. If you live long enough, you'd expect to find a couple eventually if you periodically take what you can from the criminals you capture.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    And what the guy could do to force self control roll?
    Get scratched when you are hungry, insult your mother sire, punch you...
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Guns are only weapon you need in modern RPG setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    Depends on where you live.

    In the US guns are the murder weapon of choice...
    Just the word "murder" tells me you're looking at the wrong sample. Try the wider sample of all self-defense situations, and I'll bet you my hat that gunfights will be the minority. (Also, when I said kitchen supplies, I meant it. No-one will be tracking them, because they are everyday conveniences. Right now, your cupboard is likely to contain at least one inflammable and one poisonous chemical.)

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