Level Adjustment question

[Cranthis]

If your race (Im being a Dvati Half-vampire spellthief) has no discernable hit die for its LA, or skill points for that matter, what do you do?

[Snowbluff]

With 0 HD you have no health and die.

Dvati are humanoids that advance by class level, though. Take a class level.

[Cranthis]

With 0 HD you have no health and die.

Dvati are humanoids that advance by class level, though. Take a class level.

Ah. Then I believe I will not being doing the Half-vampire thing.

Edit: Now I have to go learn the LA buyoff rules, which so far confound me.

[Snowbluff]

Simple.

If memory serve, Dvati is +1 LA.

After you have 3 Class Levels, you may pay 1000 times your ECL-1 (Example, a Dvati Fighter 5 would scrifice 5000 exp) in exp to drop your ECL by 1, negating the level adjustment.

[Cranthis]

Simple.

If memory serve, Dvati is +1 LA.

After you have 3 Class Levels, you may pay 1000 times your ECL-1 (Example, a Dvati Fighter 5 would scrifice 5000 exp) in exp to drop your ECL by 1, negating the level adjustment.

So it is fairly simple. I've only ever given it a cursory glance before, generally sticking to non-LA races. Well, this makes things simple. We are starting at level 9, so if LA buy-off is allowed, I drop, what, 8000 exp, and I'm level 8, with no LA?

[TuggyNE]

If your race (Im being a Dvati Half-vampire spellthief) has no discernable hit die for its LA, or skill points for that matter, what do you do?

All races have RHD (implicitly or explicitly), but those with one or fewer HD (and at least 3 Int) generally trade them for a class level, as stated. LA are empty levels that are added to RHD and class levels to get Effective Character Level for XP, WBL, and party balance. In particular, note that RHD are not part of LA: you can have 3 RHD and LA +0, LA +4 and 1 (0) RHD, or any similar combination.

Ah. Then I believe I will not being doing the Half-vampire thing.

Why is that?

Edit for ninja'ing:

So it is fairly simple. I've only ever given it a cursory glance before, generally sticking to non-LA races. Well, this makes things simple. We are starting at level 9, so if LA buy-off is allowed, I drop, what, 8000 exp, and I'm level 8, with no LA?

No, you'd buy off at the first opportunity during creation, which is at 3 character levels; since Dvati don't have RHD that I remember, you'd pay 3000 xp (4 - 1 * 1000).

[Archmage1]

If you have 1 la, and are starting at 9, and the DM allows you to use LA buy off, you can probably convince him to let you do it at level 3(3000 xp), and the 20% extra you would get would leave you at level 9.

[Snowbluff]

So it is fairly simple. I've only ever given it a cursory glance before, generally sticking to non-LA races. Well, this makes things simple. We are starting at level 9, so if LA buy-off is allowed, I drop, what, 8000 exp, and I'm level 8, with no LA?

Your LA counts toward your ECL for calculating the cost.

Talk to your DM, he might let you sac only 3k, as if you have done it back at class level3/ECL4.

[Cranthis]

And all of this has brought me to discover that we have been doing level adjustment totally wrong in my group. I am confused.

[Morcleon]

Your LA counts toward your ECL for calculating the cost.

Talk to your DM, he might let you sac only 3k, as if you have done it back at class level3/ECL4.

Actually, you kind of have to do the buyoff at ECL 4...

The payment must be made immediately upon becoming eligible to reduce the character's level adjustment.

[nyjastul69]

And all of this has brought me to discover that we have been doing level adjustment totally wrong in my group. I am confused.

What is confusing you?

[Cranthis]

Why is that?.

The more spellthief levels, the better.

[Cranthis]

What is confusing you?

It no longer confuses me. I read what everyone said, and read the LA entry on the srd again. I usually learn things pretty quick, once I get the need to stop being confused about them

[AlchemicalMyst]

If your race (Im being a Dvati Half-vampire spellthief) has no discernable hit die for its LA, or skill points for that matter, what do you do?

LA, and Hit Dice and Skill Points are not related directly.

Your Half-Vampire Dvati for example would start as a level 4 adventurer. +2 LA (Half-Vampire,) +1 LA Dvati, and +1 Class level. There are no racial HD to take into account.

It is impossible to start as a creature that has no levels, no matter the race. Any creature with racial HD and skill ranks is considered having levels in that type.

A Gnoll for example can start has a level 3 character without any Class levels. +1 LA and +2 HD from levels in humanoid. Racial HD, being levels, also grant BaB, saving throw bonuses, and skill points just like classes (with an exception or two.)

[TuggyNE]

The more spellthief levels, the better.

That's true. It's generally best to avoid LA on casters, in order to best match spells to level-appropriate threats. (+1 LA is bought off easily enough that it doesn't matter that much, though.)

[Cranthis]

That's true. It's generally best to avoid LA on casters, in order to best match spells to level-appropriate threats. (+1 LA is bought off easily enough that it doesn't matter that much, though.)

Exactly. Thats why I'm getting rid of the half vampire bit. And I'm hoping we have LA buyoff. Not entirely neccesary when its only 1 LA, but it doesn't hurt either.

[Flasaro]

Ok I'm gonna jump in with a question then, does a werewolf from having 2 RHD from the wolf then having +2lv adjustment(i think) be a ECL 5 character if he had one class level at creation or an ECL 3?

[Dusk Eclipse]

ECL 5, RHD and LA do count for calculating Effective Character level.

I suggest reading Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook, a must read for anyone who intends to play a character with LA and/or RHD (it also has somere pretty neat advice for DMs concerning advancing monsters.

[ahenobarbi]

5 because
ECL = RHD + LA + CL
(EffectiveClassLevel = RacialHitDie + LevelAdjustment + ClassLevel)

You might be interesed in UrPriest's Monstrous Monsters Handbook.

[Flasaro]

Alright thanks guys, I thought I was correct but I haven't tampered with that stuff in a while so I'm a little rusty. My players usually play humans.

[Cranthis]

If you have 1 la, and are starting at 9, and the DM allows you to use LA buy off, you can probably convince him to let you do it at level 3(3000 xp), and the 20% extra you would get would leave you at level 9.

What extra 20%?

[Dusk Eclipse]

20% extra XP probably.

[Cranthis]

20% extra XP probably.

I know, but I dont know where he is getting that from.

[TuggyNE]

I know, but I dont know where he is getting that from.

Probably from being 1 ECL behind notional party members (or continuing to fight increasingly hard monsters solo despite being lower ECL). In practice, buyoff certainly does tend to make itself up, but some DMs may look slantwise at assuming you gained XP at an accelerated rate during backstory, even though you certainly would if adventuring.

[Cranthis]

Probably from being 1 ECL behind notional party members (or continuing to fight increasingly hard monsters solo despite being lower ECL). In practice, buyoff certainly does tend to make itself up, but some DMs may look slantwise at assuming you gained XP at an accelerated rate during backstory, even though you certainly would if adventuring.

Ohhh ok. Yeah, I don't think I'm allowed to backstory out that exp loss. Besides, we are level 9 (I'm level 8 I suppose) so I should be able to make it up fairly easily.