Frenzied Berserker

[Ginger]

I have a question. If i threw a Crystal of Mind Cloaking in some armor. Would you allow the bonus to affect the will saves to exit or prevent frenzy?

I guess this would be more of a house rule as it doesn't say mind effecting anywhere in the frenzied description.

Would you considered a non-voluntary frenzy a mind-altering affect even though it is self inflicted?

I guess i am asking "Can a case be made?"

[Rhaegar14]

A somewhat related question that may be the answer to your problem; why is it not the case that every Frenzied Berserker ever takes Righteous Wrath (BoED) and totally disregards the PrC's main weakness? Am I missing something here?

While raging, you maintain a clarity of mind unusual among barbarians. You are perfectly able to... distinguish friend from foe even in the heat of your rage.

[LanSlyde]

I have a question. If i threw a Crystal of Mind Cloaking in some armor. Would you allow the bonus to affect the will saves to exit or prevent frenzy?

I guess this would be more of a house rule as it doesn't say mind effecting anywhere in the frenzied description.

Would you considered a non-voluntary frenzy a mind-altering affect even though it is self inflicted?

I guess i am asking "Can a case be made?"

Alternatively, you could dive into BoED for the righteous wrath feat. Your targets have to make saves to avoid being scared of you when you punch them in the face and the feat specifically says that you maintain your clarity of mind when raging and can perfectly distinguish friend from foe. While it does not list frenzy, it does have that stipulation. Besides, if a case can be for sneak attack/skirmish/sudden strike precision damage transparency you should have a chance to make a case for rage/frenzy/battle fury transparency.

I realize I have not answered your question, but yes, a case can be made for your crystal to help you avoid killing everything in the room.

[Ginger]

OK! did not know this existed! Ill have to ask my DM about that feat!!

I was planning on getting Endurance & Steadfast Determination to help before i take even a single level in frenzied berserker. I might skip that path entirely if he OKs BoED... Ill feel a bit cheesy though xD

[Dusk Eclipse]

Strictly speaking Righteous Wrath wouldn't work with Frenzy because it isn't a Barbarian's Rag

[INoKnowNames]

Yeah, Rules as Written, Righteous Wrath has no affect on Frenzy, just Rage.

Additionally, it's a pretty decisive ban because a lot of people rather dislike that Book for many different reasons.

Futhermore, for completely invalidating the class's main weakpoint and gimic, it isn't out of place for a Dm to dislike that feat.

And if you do take it, you're locked into being Good enough to shame Paladins, and if you fall, you're right back to where you started.

Clear all of those issues, though, and enjoy your super strength!

[Ginger]

I didn't even think about the alignment restriction. Yeah it won't work then. Back to endurance and Steadfast Determination then. Any other suggestions.

Any other input on the augmentation crystal idea?

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you have a Red Wizard in your party, you could take a level of Thayan Knight and have your Red Wizard buddy cast a charm monster or similar on you (will autofail the save) allowing you to calm down. Just make sure the Red Wizard player isn't a **** and won't lord over your.

[Ginger]

How will the save be auto failed? i have to try my hardest to kill people

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have a question. If i threw a Crystal of Mind Cloaking in some armor. Would you allow the bonus to affect the will saves to exit or prevent frenzy?

I guess this would be more of a house rule as it doesn't say mind effecting anywhere in the frenzied description.

Would you considered a non-voluntary frenzy a mind-altering affect even though it is self inflicted?

I guess i am asking "Can a case be made?"

Your problem will still be a 1 in 20 chance of failing your Will save on a Natural 1 and TPKing the whole party (unless you have a moderately optimized Wizard, in which case, he will most likely be unaffected by anything you do).

[Dusk Eclipse]

How will the save be auto failed? i have to try my hardest to kill people

Thayan Knight level 1 class feature make you autofail your saves against any [mind-affecting] spell cast by a Red Wizard.

[Ginger]

Your problem will still be a 1 in 20 chance of failing your Will save on a Natural 1 and TPKing the whole party (unless you have a moderately optimized Wizard, in which case, he will most likely be unaffected by anything you do).

This was one of the reasons i wanted to see if i could use the Crystal of Mind Cloaking. A greater crystal would give me a re-roll on a fail.

Doesn't completely solve the problem but odds are significantly more in favor of not murdering my party. .

[Man on Fire]

Question: Would Indominable Soul feat work against Frenzy?

Your problem will still be a 1 in 20 chance of failing your Will save on a Natural 1 and TPKing the whole party (unless you have a moderately optimized Wizard, in which case, he will most likely be unaffected by anything you do).

Don't start again, please, we tried to explain to you that your idea of FB being walking TPK is wrong lat time, don't make me start again.

Okay, here are some other suggestions:

1) Spread out the party and stay away from FB. What Shneeky worries about so much is possible only if part is all next to each other. During a fight you should spread out. That way if FB will run out of opponents he will have problem attacking you.

2) Have the lowest initiative in the party. Seriously, it saves a great lot of trouble if everybody can move out of your way, making you waste a turn to even get to them, or throw spelsl at you. Especially if you're the slowest guy i nthe group. My party solves my problem by this way - they stay away and fastest member leads me out of the civilians while being slighty beyond my reach.

3) Use bag of tricks. It's written in Frenzy describtion that FB must attack the nearest creature, even if they are not a threat. So make the party throw at you bunch of hrmless animals until you calm down.

4) Take murky-eyed flaw and make others use some form of concealment.

5) Give other party members something to make them invisible.

6) Convince another player to play somebody who can hold his own against you in combat, say War Hulk or Dwarven Defender and make it that he holds you down until you calm down. The roleplay potential for that is glorious.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not really, Frenzy isn't a [Mind-affecting] nor a Fear effect (which incidentally are a subset of the former).

[Man on Fire]

Not really, Frenzy isn't a [Mind-affecting] nor a Fear effect (which incidentally are a subset of the former).

Damn, it would solve everything.

[Ginger]

Not really, Frenzy isn't a [Mind-affecting] nor a Fear effect (which incidentally are a subset of the former).

Alright so i guess that means the Crystal is not going to work by the book either?

I might still try to bring it up to my DM. I dont think its too unreasonable.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Question: Would Indominable Soul feat work against Frenzy?



Don't start again, please, we tried to explain to you that your idea of FB being walking TPK is wrong lat time, don't make me start again.

As I recall, you merely delayed the inevitable, declared that 'it couldn't happen' and ignored the problem. Or you declared you would build in weaknesses to the FB which would enable an opponent with an IQ greater than 6 to shut him down completely.

Okay, here are some other suggestions:

1) Spread out the party and stay away from FB. What Shneeky worries about so much is possible only if part is all next to each other. During a fight you should spread out. That way if FB will run out of opponents he will have problem attacking you.

Pounce really has a way of ruining this. Also, reach-stacking. Large size + Spiked Chain (typical weapon loadout for a charge build focused on area-effect destruction) = 20' radius.

Also, splitting up the party? Always a BAD idea. If you get out of mutual reach of him, you also get out of mutual support range.

2) Have the lowest initiative in the party. Seriously, it saves a great lot of trouble if everybody can move out of your way, making you waste a turn to even get to them, or throw spelsl at you. Especially if you're the slowest guy i nthe group. My party solves my problem by this way - they stay away and fastest member leads me out of the civilians while being slighty beyond my reach.

Unfortunately, no one knows if the FB is going to try to TPK until it's his turn and he makes or fails his Will save(s). And once he fails that Will save, it's his turn, no one else can do a damn thing.

Also, you're deliberately leaving him open to be neutralized by opponents before he has a chance to act.

3) Use bag of tricks. It's written in Frenzy describtion that FB must attack the nearest creature, even if they are not a threat. So make the party throw at you bunch of hrmless animals until you calm down.

You won't know if you need to do so. And if you go first, then he will naturally attack these non-allies first. However, that also doesn't trigger the will save, because he hasn't run out of valid opponents yet. Delaying tactic, but doesn't solve the problem.

4) Take murky-eyed flaw and make others use some form of concealment.

5) Give other party members something to make them invisible.

Go ahead and make him worthless against a good chunk of encounters. I'm sure that'll make him feel REALLY valuable.

6) Convince another player to play somebody who can hold his own against you in combat, say War Hulk or Dwarven Defender and make it that he holds you down until you calm down. The roleplay potential for that is glorious.

Not gonna happen. FB's deal THOUSANDS of damage a round, with insanely high attack bonuses. NOTHING is going to be able to 'tank that' for one round. Or even one attack

[ahenobarbi]

It's easy if your DM allows the Frenzied Berserker to willingly fail save against calm emotions. If he doesn't... having your familiar/hireling ready action to use Dust of Sneeing and Choking is expansive but cheaper than resurrection and will buy you time (and more saves). You can use all BFC to keep the FB away from those you don't want hurt.

[dungeonnerd]

I'm first to admit - not familiar with FB.

But couldn't you just buy a couple cheap wands of charm or hold person, and give them to the wizard? That way, sit you in place until the rage wears off.

[ahenobarbi]

I'm first to admit - not familiar with FB.

But couldn't you just buy a couple cheap wands of charm or hold person, and give them to the wizard? That way, sit you in place until the rage wears off.

Works great - if you can willingly fail saves. If you can't then it's not reliable.

[Ginger]

I am going to agree with ShneekeyTheLost here. Once i start taking FB levels my damage will best be expressed in scientific notation. One charge will most likely kill a party member. This is especially true because the most magical character we have in our party is a Bard.... If i don't limit myself I am going to ruin someone's day.

Oh and i am not stacking reach btw. I am using a Gloiath Greathammer though... I like having a really big hammer...

Marbles will delay me for 1 round maybe if they act first. I am goign to distribute those once i hit the right level. I need to bolster my will though if I don't want to kill everyone. This also helps for preventing others from controlling me. Charge + pounce + power attack + multipliers will still probably kill party members even without the frenzy.

[dungeonnerd]

Works great - if you can willingly fail saves. If you can't then it's not reliable.

Actually, if you can get someone some skill in UMD, grab a wand of Stone Shape, and use a charge to build a wall between you, breaking line of sight. Nothing in sight = nothing to mindlessly attack...

[Mari01]

I gotta agree with Shneeky, partly because of first hand experience. We had a trap go off on our party that dealt a pitiful amount of damage to everyone (pitfall that rogue hadn't managed to find and also partly plot moving forward). We landed in a heap about 30 feet down, and that pit became our graves very quickly.

And then it happened again. The BBEG had done his research on us and we started facing more and more hit and run attacks. Shoot the berserker and hightail it outta there was a common strategy once enemies knew about it.

Building known weaknesses into your character is dumb. Strengthening your will save is one thing, but why actively gimp yourself just so you don't become the bad kind of murder hobo?

[ahenobarbi]

Hmm actually grease will stop you - becasue in Frenzy Berserker can't make checks of dex-based skills so you can't move.

Hovewer if I wanted to play FB I'd hope there is some errata out there that would let me move through grease (otherwise I'd be too easy to shut down).

[Mari01]

Hmm actually grease will stop you - becasue in Frenzy Berserker can't make checks of dex-based skills so you can't move.

Hovewer if I wanted to play FB I'd hope there is some errata out there that would let me move through grease (otherwise I'd be too easy to shut down).

There's nothing stopping you from crawling your way out. Sure it'll slow you down a couple rounds, but it's hardly permanent.

[LTwerewolf]

While it says "any" dex based skills, it was more than likely intended to be like rage, which does include some of the basic skills, like balance.

[Dusk Eclipse]

While it says "any" dex based skills, it was more than likely intended to be like rage, which does include some of the basic skills, like balance.

Again Frenzy=/= rage, and since the RAW says you can't use any Dex based skills, you cannot use balance while in a Frenzy.

[LTwerewolf]

Again Frenzy=/= rage, and since the RAW says you can't use any Dex based skills, you cannot use balance while in a Frenzy.

I enjoy how you've ignored the entire meat of the post, restating something that does not change it at all. Frenzy is not rage, no. They are similar, and yes, I said that it was not rules as written, which you also ignored. I also used the word intended.

[Mari01]

Again Frenzy=/= rage, and since the RAW says you can't use any Dex based skills, you cannot use balance while in a Frenzy.

The Frenzied Berserker who walks a tightrope just to keep killing .

[ahenobarbi]

There's nothing stopping you from crawling your way out. Sure it'll slow you down a couple rounds, but it's hardly permanent.

It will prevent you from moving untill grease runs out (which can easily be longer than your frenzy)

A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).

Again - it's RAW, I don't think it makes sense.