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Thread: Efreet?

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    Default Efreet?

    Anyone ever played the Efreet from Savage Species up level 19 for the free (no XP or GP cost) Wishes?

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    You know an efreet can't grant himself wishes, right?
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    Default Re: Efreet?

    won't really matter in a party of 2+, but no, haven't played it.

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    Default Re: Efreet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You know an efreet can't grant himself wishes, right?
    The Savage Species Efreet Class does allow an Efreet to use Wish 3/day and does not prevent the Efreet from granting his own Wishes... At least I'm not seeing anything in the class listing that says they cannot do this... It doesn't even say it in the fluff...

    I mean I'd rule that you CAN'T, but from my read through of it nothing prevents you from doing this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    The Savage Species Efreet Class does allow an Efreet to use Wish 3/day and does not prevent the Efreet from granting his own Wishes... At least I'm not seeing anything in the class listing that says they cannot do this... It doesn't even say it in the fluff...

    I mean I'd rule that you CAN'T, but from my read through of it nothing prevents you from doing this...
    Exactly, no restrictions. Besides, you could grant someone else's wish when he/she wished you no longer had that restriction. OR grants someone's wish that he could have your power for 10 minutes and then he wished away the restriction. Either way, Savage Species list no such restriction.

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    Despite being free of charge, it still has all the other restrictions of wish, such as being subject to DM screw if you overstep your bounds. Mind you, there's a lot of cool and perfectly legal stuff you CAN do, but there's a lot of ways this could go wrong as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Despite being free of charge, it still has all the other restrictions of wish, such as being subject to DM screw if you overstep your bounds. Mind you, there's a lot of cool and perfectly legal stuff you CAN do, but there's a lot of ways this could go wrong as well.
    For sure. I just like the capability of having just about any spell ready or being able to create lesser magic items as needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    For sure. I just like the capability of having just about any spell ready or being able to create lesser magic items as needed.
    Lesser? You can create any magic item you want. Since you're using a SLA rather than a spell, there's no experience cost. Technically, this means that it doesn't matter how high the XP cost would be, because the SLA function revokes that completely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You know an efreet can't grant himself wishes, right?
    But it can grant them to their suggested/dominated/mind raped/... minion.

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    As a DM, I'd let you...

    Then I'd introduce the Planar Binding subplot (multiple times), where you just stand around in summoning circles until you grant some guy his wishes

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLemon View Post
    As a DM, I'd let you...

    Then I'd introduce the Planar Binding subplot (multiple times), where you just stand around in summoning circles until you grant some guy his wishes
    Couldn't you wish for AMF and just walk away?

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    You have to suck for 18 lvs to qualify for it. Just not worth it, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    Lesser? You can create any magic item you want. Since you're using a SLA rather than a spell, there's no experience cost. Technically, this means that it doesn't matter how high the XP cost would be, because the SLA function revokes that completely.
    While this is technically true, I see one of two things happening;

    Either the DM reinstates the xp cost for wish SLA's or caps the cost at the standard wish's 5k experience

    OR

    He goes with the no XP thing and bans all custom items, period.

    The ability to create limitless custom items is too powerful for even the very cheesiest of games. Might as well just declare "I win" upon hitting level 19 if that's on the table.
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    Default Re: Efreet?

    I haven't done that (I haven't played in a 19th level game yet)

    You can get wish at will easier than that (with more cheese though), and in a level 19 game, having 10 HD really would cramp my style (and survival, both HP wise, save wise, attack wise, and the low HD means that a equal level character could take me out of the fight with a blasphemy/word of chaos/dictum/holy word depending on my alignment), in that sort of game, a wizard or sorcerer could get all the wishes they want. That build would have few options, and would really be a 1 trick pony.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    While this is technically true, I see one of two things happening;

    Either the DM reinstates the xp cost for wish SLA's or caps the cost at the standard wish's 5k experience

    OR

    He goes with the no XP thing and bans all custom items, period.

    The ability to create limitless custom items is too powerful for even the very cheesiest of games. Might as well just declare "I win" upon hitting level 19 if that's on the table.
    I am all for curb stomping nice things when the get to uppity, but punishing your players for getting an awesome capstone seems a little... dickish really... I mean if you went through 19 levels of Efreet (with only 10 HD to show for it might I add) you kind of deserve a hug and free wishes... The third option of course being that s/he just lets it all fly, but that is if it is REALLY high-OP.

    Regardless this class feature deserves as much regulation as any wish really
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-11-17 at 08:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rweird View Post
    I haven't done that (I haven't played in a 19th level game yet)

    You can get wish at will easier than that (with more cheese though), and in a level 19 game, having 10 HD really would cramp my style (and survival, both HP wise, save wise, attack wise, and the low HD means that a equal level character could take me out of the fight with a blasphemy/word of chaos/dictum/holy word depending on my alignment), in that sort of game, a wizard or sorcerer could get all the wishes they want. That build would have few options, and would really be a 1 trick pony.
    Yeah, infinite wishes cost mere 8400gp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Yeah, infinite wishes cost mere 8400gp.
    I mean a character that can get wish at will, summoning infinite Efreet is just asking for trouble, though having wish at will can be troublesome itself, hostile entities granting the wishes will mean they'll be even more twisted.
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    It might be interesting as one side of a Gestalt ?

    That said a player with that many wishes is going to get careless.
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    Geeze, for all this whining, I might as well just play a Dweomerkeeper and be done with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Yeah, infinite wishes cost mere 8400gp.
    That's a laughably bad idea. Trying to use the candle of invocation like that -will- end poorly. I'd almost guarantee it.

    Also, D&D wiki; ewwww......
    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    Geeze, for all this whining, I might as well just play a Dweomerkeeper and be done with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    Geeze, for all this whining, I might as well just play a Dweomerkeeper and be done with it.
    It pretty much is that the playground is an optimization board, and playing as an Efreet is sub-optimal, thus we mention the other things that could do better. A wizard 17 can shape change into a Zodar for wish (effectively) at will. Most of the people that would play something like that aren't on this board, or haven't read this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rweird View Post
    It pretty much is that the playground is an optimization board, and playing as an Efreet is sub-optimal, thus we mention the other things that could do better. A wizard 17 can shape change into a Zodar for wish (effectively) at will. Most of the people that would play something like that aren't on this board, or haven't read this thread.
    To be fair he wasn't asking for optimisation advice, just whether anyone had played one.
    p = 4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    To be fair he wasn't asking for optimisation advice, just whether anyone had played one.
    I know, though considering this is an optimization board, peoples answer to unoptimized builds in general is "no I haven't played one because it is a weak choice."
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    Quote Originally Posted by rweird View Post
    I know, though considering this is an optimization board, peoples answer to unoptimized builds in general is "no I haven't played one because it is a weak choice."
    I took the same view and I suspect that this thread would have had no responses otherwise.
    Last edited by nedz; 2012-11-18 at 11:14 AM.
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    That's a laughably bad idea. Trying to use the candle of invocation like that -will- end poorly. I'd almost guarantee it.
    Why the hell would anyone use the Candle of Invocation to make infinite wishes without a contingency plan? Just make safe wishes (Inherit bonuses, replicated casting, free item creation). Wishing for stupid things that would completely curb stomp the entire campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Why the hell would anyone use the Candle of Invocation to make infinite wishes without a contingency plan? Just make safe wishes (Inherit bonuses, replicated casting, free item creation). Wishing for stupid things that would completely curb stomp the entire campaign.
    All wishes have to be phrased. Given an infinite number of wishes a screw up is guaranteed, eventually. Basically people mis-speak occasionally.
    p = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    All wishes have to be phrased. Given an infinite number of wishes a screw up is guaranteed, eventually. Basically people mis-speak occasionally.
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    I'd rather this didn't turn into a "Corrupt this wish" thread ... BUT! I do love those kinds of threads...

    I wish that my intelligence score would increase by 1
    I'm sure the DM in the sky would ask me to phrase that as a D&D character would so...

    I wish I were twice as intelligent as I currently am at [insert time, date, year, month, second and fraction of second].


    This is why I hate wish silliness... and yet I love it so much... Given enough time and thinking a Wish can be flawless... My favorite wish is wishing that Wish X never occurred (See Episodes 501 (105) and 502 (106) of "Adventure Time")

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    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    All wishes have to be phrased. Given an infinite number of wishes a screw up is guaranteed, eventually. Basically people mis-speak occasionally.
    Not in D&D, you just say "I make each Efreeti create a candle of invocation LE with each of their three wishes, and light each on to summon another Efreeti to do the same thing." I'd consider it a rather lame DM fiat for the DM to say "you misspeak and you cause something horrible to happen." instead of doing something more creative or you running out of Efreeti to summon/summon the same Efreeti as you already made make the candles so it grants no more wishes.

    You'll still end up doing something horrible or the DM will just be like "no, don't do that." if the DM is sane or creative, if the DM isn't, then you'll just do whatever you want, though misspeaking isn't the way I'd think it'd happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Wish
    ...
    Wish is the mightiest spell a wizard or sorcerer can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you.
    ...
    You actually have to say what you want.
    This has nothing to do with DM fiat, well other than it's a wish.
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    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' Actually it's worse than that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    You actually have to say what you want.
    This has nothing to do with DM fiat, well other than it's a wish.
    Yes, but your character says whatever you want them to, absent weird optional rules modules like the eyestrain rules for whatever that one magical-gunslinger class was.

    Regardless, there are easier ways to get this even without any particular cheese. Ur-Priest to steal an Efreet's wish ability for example.
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