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Thread: Efreet?

  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Death is trivially easy to overcome in D&D. So much in fact that I actually don't recall any character in the Realm or Eberron (or any D&D type setting) dying plot simply stepping in and saying "Roll up a new character!".
    Death is trivially easy to overcome when it's deliberate and you have someone to bring you back. If you don't achieve some form of immortality you stay dead "when your time is up." Then of course there're the myriad ways to get your soul trapped or destroyed.



    My eyes are playing stupid right now so could you please list a page
    I'll do you one better.
    Quote Originally Posted by FC2 page 8
    Most lawful evil souls have been assessed as the property of a particular lord of hell even before their arrival in baator. [...interesting but irrelevant fluff...] pg 9: Torture stations are typically supervised by erinyes, who file regular reports [..] listing the top soul harvesters. These reports are essential to the promotion prospects of devils at work on the Material Plane. [....]While slowly peeling away every last iota of the petitioner's individuality, the process releases magical energy, which flows to the local lord as specified in the pact primeval.
    Power from souls harvested goes to the Lord
    Quote Originally Posted by FC2 pg 10
    To qualify for advancement, a devil must win the approval of its direct supervisor.
    So having your boss struck down is a problem
    Quote Originally Posted by FC2 page 17 under reproduction
    Inside the devil's body cavitiy is [...] the ovatorium. [...] When a devil is promoted, a sac (from the ovatorium) corresponding to the new form swells with infernal energy until it reaches full size and bursts out through the ruined flesh of the old form.
    and the energy harvested goes back to the underling. So yeah, screwing with devils is -way- more trouble than any sensible mortal should ever undertake.



    Alright lemme ask you a question: Say that you are Mephistopheles and someone has just permanently killed Asmodeus. Would you actively (and I mean put in some serious effort to the point where you probably start a few trillion eons of constant war) seek out the guy who offed him or would you move on and get to work on building your own organization?
    Given how infernal politics works, I'd already have an organization. After I secured my position as the new ruler of hell, I would most certainly set to work to make an example of the mortal who was responsible. The whole cosmos needs to know that I'm better than the guy before me and that if you mess with a devil all of hell is your enemy. The last thing I need is some uppity eladrins or archons thinking I'm weak and trying to storm avernus to try and save a few wrongfully directed souls. (some souls do end up in hell by mistake.)



    To be more fair it would be a Cleric V Wizard 123 discussion Of course considering the fact the Wizard is immune to everything under the sun, this is generally considered moot.
    Same goes for cleric, this is pretty much an unwinnable fight, but not losing is a victory of sorts on this level of play.

    A fight like that would pretty much be like the Lady of Pain Vs Ao.
    You mean there'd be a good chance of it destroying the cosmos as we know it? (Note the conspicuous absence of blue in that statement )


    Devil's have a level of self-importance that trumps Karsus easily. They are just as likely to fail (statistically more actually) then you are. Which explains why Heroes actually get away with the shenanigans that they pull periodically.
    Individually they may be more likely to fail, though that particular reason doesn't make it quantitatively proveable, but you have to keep rolling the dice. Sooner or later your luck runs out and theirs holds. Then you're lucky if you're just dead.



    Demon's aren't exactly famous for their intelligence. Perhaps not a Deux ex machina, but it does certainly reek of something hampering the Demons. Perhaps a conflicting on his Layers after his disappearance or simply fear of him kept them from looking for him.
    Then we agree that it was an anomaly, and isn't a good example for this discussion.



    Contact Other Plane, Legend Lore on the target to learn more about it, Scry for it. All until you have the knowledge that you seek which is a simple question: "Can it use Wish now?". Moot really especially considering that a MM Efreet cannot use Wish for itself...
    You have to start somewhere. You can't legend lore a creature with -nothing- to go on, except "an efreeti that can't currently grant a wish." At the very least you're talking about either building or engaging an existing information network just to reach the starting point of this process. Contact other plane is dangerous in its own right, and not entirely reliable. Using it is pushing your luck just a little bit more. If you have to go through all that trouble and possibly spend all that gold, wouldn't it be immensely more sensible just to try and find a scroll of wish?



    FALSENESS! HE HAS ALREADY USED HIS WISH FOR VECNA KNOWS WHAT!
    If you can find a creature that meets that criterion; an arduous task in its own right.



    No offense, but this actually disturbed me a little bit after reading it...
    Regardless! The creature does not know what spell I am going to cast immediately after agreeing to the spell. I could of course just set up some shenanigans to make him botch the save on anything short of a nat 20 (negative levels are a hell of a drug).
    Doesn't matter. Simply knowing that such a spell might make me your permanent slave forever and always will prevent the creature from agreeing until and unless you offer it -something- in return. Like an iron-clad guarantee that it's not one of those spells, for example.



    Statistically this is quite true. Just make sure you have enough Wishes to not screw up on the first time. Hell, on your first successful wish, wish for a magical item of unlimited wishes
    You and I both know that's not a kosher wish, regardless of RAW. Such a device would be a god in item form. Incidentally, a god of magic would strip you of the thing the moment it came into existence. Even the uncarring book, Boccob, wouldn't stand for such an item. (call it DM fiat if you will, but you know I'm right on this one.)



    Actually it is incredibly easy to increase the characters caster level by 18 either through Spellcraft use (MoF) or Circle Magic or even magical items (Ioun Stones). Increase your caster level is child's play at 20th level. Efreeti are simply the easiest to do since you don't have to worry about retribution or anything.
    Efreet are members of a lawful-evil society based around mercantilism. They may not have their act together as well as the devils, but retribution will be an issue.


    That is what disturbed me. How little value you placed on the creatures life and if you were in that situation, your own life...
    I do place life at a somewhat lower value than some societies suggest I should, I admit. On the personal level, I very much put my freedom ahead of my life. I life in bondage is no life at all. I admit this may color my opinion on this specific point, just a little, but I really can't see a thinking creature willingly giving up any chance of freedom of choice until your wizard is dead or otherwise gone. Much less taking a chance that you're going to completely rewrite its entire mind.

    Regardless this can be done without asking "nicely" through the use of negative levels, penalties, etc.
    Natural 20's are always a thing. As long as the dice are involved this is a losing game. The house always wins in the end, unless you walk away. Of course, you can't walk away once you're on this path. You're on the radar from your first try and even if it's succesful and everything goes smoothly, and you return the creature, mind freshly wiped, there's a chance your actions will come to light and vengeance heaped upon you.



    Quite right. I'd just rather not see either a person like you get banned. Excellent participant on this forum
    Thank you for the compliment good sir. I don't believe I'm in much danger of that though. I'm pretty good about not crossing the line, even if I do get adventurously close sometimes.

    In this particular instance, our discussion seems more a logical progression of the discussion than a derail, IMO. I would, of course, stop immediately and take this to another thread if a mod or the OP suggested it. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun here.



    Quite right. NOW TO MOVE ON TO ENSLAVE THE EFREETI!
    Definitely a safer choice than anything that can wish for itself, I'm still more than a little concerned about how many ways this can go wrong though.

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    What the crap is that?
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-20 at 07:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Efreet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Death is trivially easy to overcome when it's deliberate and you have someone to bring you back. If you don't achieve some form of immortality you stay dead "when your time is up." Then of course there're the myriad ways to get your soul trapped or destroyed.
    Please tell me you're thinking of another source beyond the BoVD on the whole Soul Destruction thing

    Lichdom is a personal favorite when it comes to immortality really... But if we can get our hands on that spell that makes you immortal then we are crystal. Just try and take the item away from him (Wish would replicate a super charged Teleport Object which offers a Will save).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I'll do you one better. Power from souls harvested goes to the Lord So having your boss struck down is a problem and the energy harvested goes back to the underling. So yeah, screwing with devils is -way- more trouble than any sensible mortal should ever undertake.
    Strong chain of command I see, but my question remains (and is answered in the next reply).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Given how infernal politics works, I'd already have an organization. After I secured my position as the new ruler of hell, I would most certainly set to work to make an example of the mortal who was responsible. The whole cosmos needs to know that I'm better than the guy before me and that if you mess with a devil all of hell is your enemy. The last thing I need is some uppity eladrins or archons thinking I'm weak and trying to storm avernus to try and save a few wrongfully directed souls. (some souls do end up in hell by mistake.)
    Seems legit actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Same goes for cleric, this is pretty much an unwinnable fight, but not losing is a victory of sorts on this level of play.
    See next point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You mean there'd be a good chance of it destroying the cosmos as we know it? (Note the conspicuous absence of blue in that statement )
    Made me laugh sooooo hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Individually they may be more likely to fail, though that particular reason doesn't make it quantitatively proveable, but you have to keep rolling the dice. Sooner or later your luck runs out and theirs holds. Then you're lucky if you're just dead.
    Which is why I said statistically. Regardless all the Wizard has to do is get one and s/he is set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Then we agree that it was an anomaly, and isn't a good example for this discussion.
    Not necessarily. It is a Cosmic being getting dicked by a Wizard with no repercussions, in fact benefiting from screwing with the entire cosmology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You have to start somewhere. You can't legend lore a creature with -nothing- to go on, except "an efreeti that can't currently grant a wish." At the very least you're talking about either building or engaging an existing information network just to reach the starting point of this process. Contact other plane is dangerous in its own right, and not entirely reliable. Using it is pushing your luck just a little bit more. If you have to go through all that trouble and possibly spend all that gold, wouldn't it be immensely more sensible just to try and find a scroll of wish?
    *Puts on Archyre* "Why in the hell should I be forced to lower myself to the status of a commoner, just to get something that I rightfully deserve?" *takes it off*

    It literally cost less gold to find out that information and actually succeed through with the plan then it is to buy the scroll. Since none of the Archdevils are actually Gods, if you talk to anything beyond a Demideity they won't know diddly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Doesn't matter. Simply knowing that such a spell might make me your permanent slave forever and always will prevent the creature from agreeing until and unless you offer it -something- in return. Like an iron-clad guarantee that it's not one of those spells, for example.
    Alright. I'll give you all my remaining WBL if you let me cast that one spell on you without you resisting. That good enough for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You and I both know that's not a kosher wish, regardless of RAW. Such a device would be a god in item form. Incidentally, a god of magic would strip you of the thing the moment it came into existence. Even the uncarring book, Boccob, wouldn't stand for such an item. (call it DM fiat if you will, but you know I'm right on this one.)
    Actually it would be kosher, because it is a magical item with a calculable price and not an Artifact. If Boccob wants one he can literally just Alter Reality to make one for free (Actually he can make a better one since he has Craft Artifact). Of course it is DM fiat, but it is pointless DM fiat, with no cause to it other than to dump on the players plan because "It doesn't fit in with my Campaign." It is childish and if your DM let you get on up to that point without stopping you they have no real right to complain since the plan is plainly obvious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    are members of a lawful-evil society based around mercantilism. They may not have their act together as well as the devils, but retribution will be an issue.
    Efreeti are merchants (I do dream of playing a playing one with the Merchant Prince class...), however if one of them disappears no one will complain. Actually, I'm pretty sure some people will throw you a party... since their debts to that particular Efreet is gone now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I do place life at a somewhat lower value than some societies suggest I should, I admit. On the personal level, I very much put my freedom ahead of my life. I life in bondage is no life at all. I admit this may color my opinion on this specific point, just a little, but I really can't see a thinking creature willingly giving up any chance of freedom of choice until your wizard is dead or otherwise gone. Much less taking a chance that you're going to completely rewrite its entire mind.
    I see. I would like to discuss your stances on Murder and it's justification in a stress inducing environment (My Philosophy Prof is having a discussion on it in a week and he wants us to get our talking points together).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Natural 20's are always a thing. As long as the dice are involved this is a losing game. The house always wins in the end, unless you walk away. Of course, you can't walk away once you're on this path. You're on the radar from your first try and even if it's successful and everything goes smoothly, and you return the creature, mind freshly wiped, there's a chance your actions will come to light and vengeance heaped upon you.
    a 5% chance on a 1 time wish or the entire Multiverse loses? I'm liking these odds

    My 2nd Wish can be "I wish nobody except me remembered that I ever casted a spell on X"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Thank you for the compliment good sir. I don't believe I'm in much danger of that though. I don't have any points, atm, and I'm pretty good about not crossing the line, even if I do get adventurously close sometimes.
    In this particular instance, our discussion seems more a logical progression of the discussion than a derail, IMO. I would, of course, stop immediately and take this to another thread if a mod or the OP suggested it. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun here.
    Quite right. You are a gentlemen and a Scholar *smokes pipe*

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Definitely a safer choice than anything that can wish for itself, I'm still more than a little concerned about how many ways this can go wrong though.
    Think of it like a Monkey's Paw. You have to be very specific in the use of your Wish, otherwise you end up screwing over everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    What the crap is that?
    That is The Lich from the show "Adventure Time".
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    A Personal favorite character from that show for the simply purpose of his use of his Universal Wish "The extinction of all life" (which was changed to Wishing that his wish was instead "Finn and Jake returned to Ooo", thus supposedly trapping him in Prismo's Time Room)
    Last edited by Arcanist; 2012-11-21 at 07:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Natural 20's are always a thing. As long as the dice are involved this is a losing game. The house always wins in the end, unless you walk away. Of course, you can't walk away once you're on this path. You're on the radar from your first try and even if it's succesful and everything goes smoothly, and you return the creature, mind freshly wiped, there's a chance your actions will come to light and vengeance heaped upon you.
    Objection! You need only one wish for which you will not pay XP to gety infinite wishes. So you can walk away pretty quickly.

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    The whole Ol' Boys Club O' Hell idea has me peeing my pants. Good god man, play the damn game already!

    The ONLY reason a dead bad guy's friends are going to come looking for a character is because the DM wants them too. seriously, you could extend this logic to ANY, I repeat ANY type of monster in D&D:

    The PCs just killed a Dragon so all the Dragons team up to kill them to protect themselves.

    The PCs just killed a Kobold in a back alley for his 1 CP he keeps in his sock so all the Kobold nations make the PCs enemy numero uno and set out with spears and torches to catch them.

    Dude, sooner or later you need to play the damn game and stop thinking about ways to stop the PCs at every step. The PCs are supposed to be special and do special things. Sometimes they get to big for their britches and things need adjusted. Handling these times like a **** will only lose you friends.

    Forget looking up references to support your DM jerk moves. Sit down and discuss how to work out the problem. Be as adult as possible.

    A GREAT solution to a character that gets to be to powerful is to allow the PC to turn into a patron of some sort. Let the player use him for favors down the road. In short, stop trying squash fun in the favor of play balance. Fun is a real thing, play balance is a myth.
    Last edited by barna10; 2012-11-20 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Please tell me you're thinking of another source beyond the BoVD on the whole Soul Destruction thing
    BoVD is the primary source on the matter of souls outright destruction, but it's not the only one. More importantly, you've positted a means of forever trapping a soul in your own posts. Binding spell, plus broken bag of holding. Nevermind a number of creatures that explicitly consume a creature in a manner that doesn't allow a res; barghest to take an example from the SRD.

    Lichdom is a personal favorite when it comes to immortality really... But if we can get our hands on that spell that makes you immortal then we are crystal. Just try and take the item away from him (Wish would replicate a super charged Teleport Object which offers a Will save).
    I'm not familiar with that spell. I've always favored using that life-draining spell from BoVD on a hobo once a year; Steal Life, I think. Regardless, even being extremely difficult to perma-kill isn't being truly unkillable. It's definitely a good idea to make 'em work for it though.



    Strong chain of command I see, but my question remains (and is answered in the next reply).



    Seems legit actually.
    After reading FC2 for the first time, devils got my vote for the scariest category of creature in 3E. You do -not- mess with them unless you're prepared to deal with the consequences.



    Which is why I said statistically. Regardless all the Wizard has to do is get one and s/he is set.
    That's not going to fly. One time gets a few wishes, period.



    Not necessarily. It is a Cosmic being getting dicked by a Wizard with no repercussions, in fact benefiting from screwing with the entire cosmology.
    While we don't know what the exact reprecussions of her actions were, I'd be utterly shocked to find out that Iggwilv's actions didn't garner some kind of consequence.



    *Puts on Archyre* "Why in the hell should I be forced to lower myself to the status of a commoner, just to get something that I rightfully deserve?" *takes it off*

    It literally cost less gold to find out that information and actually succeed through with the plan then it is to buy the scroll. Since none of the Archdevils are actually Gods, if you talk to anything beyond a Demideity they won't know diddly.
    You're losing me a little here. The exact cost of engaging such an information network is a nebulous figure that depends on who all is involved and how much they charge for those services. There's also the issue of your potential target finding out about your interest and making a first strike. It could very easily cost you more, financially, than just buying a scroll or three. Nevermind the scroll doesn't come with all the inherent risks of being a d-bag to a race of vindictive immortals.



    Alright. I'll give you all my remaining WBL if you let me cast that one spell on you without you resisting. That good enough for you?
    Gods no. I let your dominate through and you command me to give it all back. I've lost everything for nothing still. You want to get past my will save, you're going to have to either force your way past, or provide me with tangible proof that I'm not going to be your thrall for the rest of your life for letting it through.



    Actually it would be kosher, because it is a magical item with a calculable price and not an Artifact. If Boccob wants one he can literally just Alter Reality to make one for free (Actually he can make a better one since he has Craft Artifact). Of course it is DM fiat, but it is pointless DM fiat, with no cause to it other than to dump on the players plan because "It doesn't fit in with my Campaign." It is childish and if your DM let you get on up to that point without stopping you they have no real right to complain since the plan is plainly obvious...
    For one, I'd think it was clear by now that I'd make a player really work just to get this far. I really don't see how preventing him from having an auto-win button is dirty pull.

    Incidentally, thats' why such an item wouldn't be kosher in the eyes of a god of magic either. Here's an item that can nearly replicate the divine ability to alter reality in the hands of some berk with an attitude. Preventing the collapse entire civilizations, nevermind the rampant fighting over this item by every outsider that ever hears about it would be perfectly in-line with the desires of all but the gods of destruction and chaos, who would want the thing for themselves to sow exactly that kind of discord.

    Btw, let's take a look at that "calculable price" 9X17X1800 for a command word activated 9th level spell is 275400. Then you get 5X5000 for the XP to gold conversion for 25000. Multiply that by 100, per the formula for XP costs on at-will items brings us to 525,400gp total. In-game, that would constitute more than 2/3 the WBL of a 20th level character. It should probably be more like 10X that since it's an epic item. This does not belong in a non-epic game, except perhaps as a plot device.

    That's both in-game and metagame reasons for that item to either never exist or to be immediately removed. It's not a kosher wish.



    Efreeti are merchants (I do dream of playing a playing one with the Merchant Prince class...), however if one of them disappears no one will complain. Actually, I'm pretty sure some people will throw you a party... since their debts to that particular Efreet is gone now.
    This isn't an either-or situation. Some will celebrate, to be sure, but some will wonder what happened, and some will have a problem with it and seek to put a stop to further depredations.



    I see. I would like to discuss your stances on Murder and it's justification in a stress inducing environment (My Philosophy Prof is having a discussion on it in a week and he wants us to get our talking points together).
    I'd be willing to discuss it via PM. My views on this matter probably wouldn't be a good idea to discuss in the open forum.



    a 5% chance on a 1 time wish or the entire Multiverse loses? I'm liking these odds
    For the reasons I laid out above, I really don't see this working like that.

    My 2nd Wish can be "I wish nobody except me remembered that I ever casted a spell on X"
    Because going off the safe-list is such a wonderful idea. There's no spell that exists (not even mindrape) that can accomplish that for wish to replicate. It's also well outside the bounds of the spell's other powers. What could possibly go wrong?


    Think of it like a Monkey's Paw. You have to be very specific in the use of your Wish, otherwise you end up screwing over everyone.
    All the reason more to leave this bad idea alone. The monkey's paw is a cautionary tale you know.



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    That is The Lich from the show "Adventure Time". A Personal favorite character from that show for the simply purpose of his use of his Universal Wish "The extinction of all life" (which was changed to Wishing that his wish was instead "Finn and Jake returned to Ooo", thus supposedly trapping him in Prismo's Time Room)
    Not a show I care for. Might want to spoiler that comment for those that do enjoy it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    The whole Ol' Boys Club O' Hell idea has me peeing my pants. Good god man, play the damn game already!

    The ONLY reason a dead bad guy's friends are going to come looking for a character is because the DM wants them too. seriously, you could extend this logic to ANY, I repeat ANY type of monster in D&D:

    The PCs just killed a Dragon so all the Dragons team up to kill them to protect themselves.

    The PCs just killed a Kobold in a back alley for his 1 CP he keeps in his sock so all the Kobold nations make the PCs enemy numero uno and set out with spears and torches to catch them.

    Dude, sooner or later you need to play the damn game and stop thinking about ways to stop the PCs at every step. The PCs are supposed to be special and do special things. Sometimes they get to big for their britches and things need adjusted. Handling these times like a **** will only lose you friends.

    Forget looking up references to support your DM jerk moves. Sit down and discuss how to work out the problem. Be as adult as possible.

    A GREAT solution to a character that gets to be to powerful is to allow the PC to turn into a patron of some sort. Let the player use him for favors down the road. In short, stop trying squash fun in the favor of play balance. Fun is a real thing, play balance is a myth.
    That's just uncalled for.

    When I DM, I don't try to curb-stomp the players at every turn, nor do I try to prevent all of their plans from working. I do, however, set certain limitations on what's permissable. Free, infinite wishes is on my black-list, but use of calling conjurations is not.

    Having in-game justification for why this can, and likely will, go wrong is just part of creating a high-verisimilitude world.

    I'd start citing economic principle if this were a discussion on infinite wealth, another of my black-list items.

    In case anyone's interested, I only count actual, permanent and semi-permanent magical gear on the characters' persons against their WBL. If I counted all of their assests, including property, businesses, expendables, and pay-rolled minions, they'd exceed WBL by several fold.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-20 at 09:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    That's just uncalled for.

    When I DM, I don't try to curb-stomp the players at every turn, nor do I try to prevent all of their plans from working. I do, however, set certain limitations on what's permissable. Free, infinite wishes is on my black-list, but use of calling conjurations is not.

    Having in-game justification for why this can, and likely will, go wrong is just part of creating a high-verisimilitude world.

    I'd start citing economic principle if this were a discussion on infinite wealth, another of my black-list items.

    In case anyone's interested, I only count actual, permanent and semi-permanent magical gear on the characters' persons against their WBL. If I counted all of their assests, including property, businesses, expendables, and pay-rolled minions, they'd exceed WBL by several fold.
    It is not uncalled for. You are wasting resources (your brain) on crap that just shouldn't matter.

    WBL? Seriously? Again, play the game! I can see worrying about this when making a character higher than first level, but after the game starts, who gives a crap! If you think they have too much stuff (please don't pull out a calculator!), have some thieves steal some stuff. Them trying to track them down to get their stuff back will make for high adventure!

    I'm telling you, concentrate on role-playing and the story and forget about the numbers! This game can be so much more fun!
    Last edited by barna10; 2012-11-20 at 10:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    It is not uncalled for. You are wasting resources (your brain) on crap that just shouldn't matter.

    WBL? Seriously? Again, play the game! I can see worrying about this when making a character higher than first level, but after the game starts, who gives a crap! If you think they have too much stuff (please don't pull out a calculator!), have some thieves steal some stuff. Them trying to track them down to get their stuff back will make for high adventure!

    I'm telling you, concentrate on role-playing and the story and forget about the numbers! This game can be so much more fun!
    Go go stormwind fallacy!

    Just because working within the numbers doesn't sound entertaining to you doesn't mean me and mine don't enjoy the game the way we play it, and I resent the implication that I don't know how to roleplay when I've spent the last several pages discussing fluff material from an almost entirely in-game perspective.

    Us disagreeing with each other is fine. Calling us asshats because our fun doesn't match yours is uncalled for.

    Tangentially related note: how is it any of your concern if I waste my own resources (my brain, as you put it)? It's not hurting you.

    If you don't like what's on, change the channel. Don't storm the studio and demand the director's head on a pike.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-20 at 11:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
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    Default Re: Efreet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Go go stormwind fallacy!

    Just because working within the numbers doesn't sound entertaining to you doesn't mean me and mine don't enjoy the game the way we play it, and I resent the implication that I don't know how to roleplay when I've spent the last several pages discussing fluff material from an almost entirely in-game perspective.

    Us disagreeing with each other is fine. Calling us asshats because our fun doesn't match yours is uncalled for.
    Never said you were asshats, but I think I will add that to my vocabulary.

    Don't remember saying you don't know how to roleplay...

    Don't recall ever hearing that stating my opinion somehow degrades you or the game you're playing, but if it affects you so much, maybe there is a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    Never said you were asshats, but I think I will add that to my vocabulary.

    Don't remember saying you don't know how to roleplay...

    Don't recall ever hearing that stating my opinion somehow degrades you or the game you're playing, but if it affects you so much, maybe there is a problem.
    You didn't say it in so many words, but your post very strongly implied it. I seriously doubt that I'm the only one that could've read it that way.

    Seriously. If your post wasn't supposed to be saying we're doing it wrong, what was it supposed to say?

    I'm not particularly upset, just a tad perturbed by the implications.

    I can say with a certain measure of certainty that neither I nor Arcanist was angrily sniping the other. We were having a rational discussion based on logic and the in-game fluff.

    Even if you don't agree with what we're saying or why we're saying it, that doesn't change the fact that we were enjoying our lively debate. We may even have given some people some things to think about for their own games.

    Given that the most common way for an efreeti to be seen in-game is as a result of the calling spells we're discussing, it's not even entirely off-topic. In fact, the danger of being the efreeti in this situation is a very solid reason -not- to play one. How much would it suck for some NPC wizard to call your PC efreeti via planar-binding and subject you to the things that Arcanist has described.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-21 at 01:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

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    Default Re: Efreet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You didn't say it in so many words, but your post very strongly implied it. I seriously doubt that I'm the only one that could've read it that way.

    Seriously. If your post wasn't supposed to be saying we're doing it wrong, what was it supposed to say?

    I'm not particularly upset, just a tad perturbed by the implications.

    I can say with a certain measure of certainty that neither I nor Arcanist was angrily sniping the other. We were having a rational discussion based on logic and the in-game fluff.

    Even if you don't agree with what we're saying or why we're saying it, that doesn't change the fact that we were enjoying our lively debate. We may even have given some people some things to think about for their own games.

    Given that the most common way for an efreeti to be seen in-game is as a result of the calling spells we're discussing, it's not even entirely off-topic. In fact, the danger of being the efreeti in this situation is a very solid reason -not- to play one. How much would it suck for some NPC wizard to call your PC efreeti via planar-binding and subject you to the things that Arcanist has described.
    No, my posts didn't say it in any words; you very strongly read into it. Don't get your panties in a bunch, geeze. Play the game however you want. If you're having fun, great. What you've described is the way I used to play 20 years ago. It got boring and I moved on. That's all.
    Last edited by barna10; 2012-11-21 at 02:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Efreet?

    Quote Originally Posted by barna10 View Post
    No, my posts didn't say it in any words; you very strongly read into it. Don't get your panties in a bunch, geeze. Play the game however you want. If you're having fun, great. What you've described is the way I used to play 20 years ago. It got boring and I moved on. That's all.
    I'm sorry if I misread you, but when you quote someone and then explicitly use the word "you" in your response, it implies pretty heavily that you're directing your comment specifically at the person you've quoted.

    If I did misread you, and you're not just back-pedalling as fast as you can, then you're own phrasing and post structure are why.

    But let's just drop this before it gets out of hand. Happy gaming, Barna.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    [...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.
    A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign

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