Results 1 to 30 of 38
-
2012-11-17, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Okay... this would normally fit into 3.5 by RAW thread, but I it's a multi-part question that may require some 'splainin' that I'm not sure would mesh well with the thread's format.
I need to make sure that I understand how a totemist works. I'm lvl 3, so you know... can't do much yet.
Still, I was under the impression that I know how to do all soulmelds that a Totemist can do, which are the soulmelds listed on MoI, pg. 58... except I can only bind to my totem chakra at this level.
Originally Posted by MoI, pg. 29
Originally Posted by MoI, pg. 30PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 01:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
No - the rules for shaping soulmelds on pg. 49 apply to all meldshapers equally, Totemists included.
Do note that if you don't plan on changing your soulmelds, you can leave the same ones on indefinitely if you want; they don't have a duration and stay on you even while you sleep.
Not sure what you mean by "toss around." You can shape any soulmeld on your list, yeah, but they're more like magic items than spells.
The abilities of the melds do function kind of like spells though - once a meld is shaped, the powers it gives you are generally usable at-will. You can obviously only use the abilities of soulmelds that you've shaped, and some abilities are closed off from you unless you've bound that meld to a chakra - the soulmeld descriptions will tell you what you can do with a given meld in its baseline state, and what can only be done with it once bound.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-17, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
So... what does it mean that I don't prepare or study soulmelds in advance then? Is that a fluff thing, then?
I went ahead and read about the other Incarnum users and they all have that line that says they don't prepare or study soulmelds in advance, but instead meditate for an hour. Is it just a new word for an old concept?
And now what does that mean about how many soulmelds I can prepare? I can use three. Does that mean I can only prepare three?
And once they are prepared, does that mean they are... what's the right word... equipped? So I start the day off with all my soulmelds in place?PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 02:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
I understand this book can be confusing, so bear with me for a moment. That line simply means that you don't need to go out and "learn" your soulmelds, or read about them in some book, before you can shape them. You simply know all of them, just like a cleric knows every spell on the cleric list.
But there is still a selection process, which happens at the beginning of the day when you wake up. All three meldshapers direct you to page 49 - that's where the rules for shaping soulmelds are.
To shape a soulmeld, a meldshaper must have a clear mind, just like a wizard who wishes to prepare spells (see page 177 of the Player's Handbook). Achieving this clear mind requires 8 hours of sleep (or a like amount of restful calm, if the character does not sleep).
After resting, a meldshaper must meditate for 1 hour. During this time, he selects and shapes all his soulmelds for the day, simultaneously unshaping any current soulmelds that he does not choose to retain. Any soulmelds previously shaped that he chooses to retain do not need to be reshaped.
A meldshaper must shape all his chosen soulmelds at the same time. He cannot leave a soul meld slot unfilled in order to shape it later."
- the amount on your class table, or
- your Con score minus 10.
In your case - yes, you can shape 3, provided that you have at least 13 Con.
Shaping a soulmeld means it occupies a chakra. (This is not the same as binding it to a chakra, but since your only chakra available for binding right now is your Totem, don't worry about that yet.) All you need to know for now is that you can't have two soulmelds occupying the same chakra. For example, you can't shape both Pegasus Cloak and Displacer Mantle, because those both occupy your Shoulders.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-17, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Ok. That's starting to make more sense.
Thanks for the help, Psyren. Basically, I'm just donning "magic" armor I didn't have to buy, and if I didn't like what I wore the day before, I can always make a new selection the next day. I guess that's not so bad.
I guess my problem was that I kept thinking of soulmelds as spells, even though the book keeps telling me not to think of them that way.PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
If you think of Incarnum as magic items on Steroids, Crystal Meth and Crack Cocaine at the same time, you understand the basics.
Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar
Ponytar by Dirtytabs
Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
-
2012-11-17, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Lol!
Based on the crazy looking depictions of Totemists in MoI, I have to agree, Sgt. Cookie.PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Soulmelds do start out stronger than items (particularly with essentia) but unfortunately, scale very poorly. Consider that a Totemist meld is unlikely to give you much more than +12 competence to something at level 20; meanwhile, you can buy or craft a +30 competence item long before that. Or Incarnate weapon which gives a +5 weapon at level 18, whereas the Fighter can have a +9 equivalent weapon by then with WBL.
The main draw to Soulmelds is, again, that they're free - but past a certain point, you get what you pay for.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-17, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
I second what Psy says here, to a point.
To me, after the better magic items become available, soul melds are about convince - you can prepare soul melds for things that are inconvienient to buy an item for, or is generally situational so you don't have to spend the gold. Personally, I like taking levels in totemist until I can shape and bind both totem avatar and the three-headed dragon (can't be flanked, some other niceties). After that, I generally shift into something else, leaving most slots free for magic items.
Totemist/Druid can be a fun progression - maybe not optimized, but fun.
-
2012-11-17, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
I'm playing a Totemist/Factotum Gestalt that another Plagrounder recommended I try as a wilderness survivalist build.
I've never played either class, but thought I was long overdue to break the mold and try something new.
It's for a Low-Magic PbP campaign, so months can pass between levels, so I'm not too worried about becoming irrelevant at higher levels. It's fun being a crazy wildlife scientist... like some fantasy nod to the great Steve Irwin.
"Owh, isn't he goo'geous! He's 'uge! The lahgest of his breed! I can't leave 'im 'ere though. Oi've got to move 'im to a safa' lowcaytion! Oh 'e is really ayngry now! If only 'e knew we were tryin' to save him!"PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
-
2012-11-17, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Go for it with my blessing.
PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Just be sure to equip your Ray-bans
(Too soon?)
Note there are ways to build on Incarnum's synergy. For instance, Totemists can get a truly ridiculous number of natural attacks - all of which will be enhanced by a single Amulet of Mighty Fists. And since your essentia can enhance these natural attacks, you can focus your amulet on providing special abilities instead - Ghost Touch, Holy, Keen etc.
Also, as a general rule - Incarnate melds provide insight bonuses, while Totemist melds provide competence, so plan your buffs and other items accordingly. You'll also need to plan your feats well - in addition to the Incarnum feats you will likely want (Double/Split Chakra, Bonus Essentia etc.) you'll also want the Multiattack line.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-17, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
-
2012-11-17, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Ok... but fyi, I don't do the Aussie accent in the game. It's a fairly new campaign, so we're all trying to flesh out our characters. I was originally going for something similar to Anthony Hopkins's character in the film Instinct... but he's very rapidly turning into Steve Irwin.
It has the potential of making an interesting "What I Made, What the DM Saw, What I Played" post.
The campaign is called "Hunters: A Requiem"PbP Junk and Stuff:
My Characters:
I am currently not a player in a game, and would be mostly interested in joining 5E games.My Campaigns:
For the Republic of Ishtar! A 5E Campaign
My PbP color is dark red.
My Player Registry
My DM Registry
Jormengand's Advice on Character Development
-
2012-11-17, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Saint Louis
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Also please note that Totemist is about the only class that makes VoP a good choice.
Your soulmelds are not considered magic items after all. It also helps you make the choice of shaping a meld or using a magic item :p
Though I do still prefer the VoP remake from these forums
-
2012-11-17, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-17, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Saint Louis
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
-
2012-11-17, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
FTFY. (Totemist, Incarnate, Psion, Ardent, Druid, Unarmed Swordsage)
Just how many natural attacks can an out-of-the-box Totemist get? Personally, I've never been able to figure out how to get more than maybe 7. So I get a little puzzled when I see claims like this -- but I'm sure there's something I'm missing.
And for the record, by RAW an Amulet of Mighty Fists (unlike a Necklace of Natural Attacks) can't give any weapon enhancements besides a generic plus. So that's one to ask the DM about.
Also, as a general rule - Incarnate melds provide insight bonuses, while Totemist melds provide competence, so plan your buffs and other items accordingly. You'll also need to plan your feats well - in addition to the Incarnum feats you will likely want (Double/Split Chakra, Bonus Essentia etc.) you'll also want the Multiattack line.
Double Chakra (Totem) is big money, though.Last edited by Draz74; 2012-11-17 at 06:30 PM.
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
Spoiler
Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
- 3rd Place in Iron Chef XI (Blade Bravo)
- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
-
2012-11-17, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Indianapolis
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
This unfortunately requires some houseruling; while an Amulet of Mighty Fists does indeed apply to all attacks, it cannot provide special bonuses. The Amulet of Mighty Fists is RAW limited to just basic enhancement, although it is a pretty efficient way to get that basic enhancement when you're working with 6+ natural attacks.
The Necklace of Natural Attacks can host special properties, but it doesn't apply to all attacks- you have to pay per attack you want it to work with, which gets terribly expensive pretty quickly if you want all of your attacks to benefit.
There is not, as best as I can remember, an efficient way to apply special properties to all of the attacks a Totemist can get aside from those that can be gotten from soulmelds.
-
2012-11-17, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Back to Main OP topic. I am trying to build an incarnum character as well.
My main question goes along with OP's.
OP
Case A.
Con 14
Totemist 1
Day 1 - I shape 2 shape soulmelds
Day 2 - I can shape 2 different soulmelds and keep my previous 2 since I have a con of 14?
Or Case B.
Day 1 - I can shape 2 shapemelds.
Day 2 - I can keep one or both of my shapemelds OR I can choose 1 or 2 different soulmelds due to my meldshaper level on said chart.
My case.
Case C. My case since it deals with spinemeld warrior pg 147. Which by wording seems to only have the con score restriction.
I can shape my soul melds in accordance to my chart ( how many per day ) and keep as many as I want up ( shaping over the course of days ) limited only by my con score.
-edit- forgive me if it was already covered. I am trying to do multiple things at once on PC.Last edited by animewatcha; 2012-11-17 at 07:03 PM.
-
2012-11-17, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Yeah, the amulet is great if you want to save Essentia, but the necklace is the only way to add special properties. However, the necklace can be the best way to enhance your attacks if your DM rules that the Manticore Belt's spine attacks are natural weapons.
But I wouldn't try to enhance something like the Girallon Arms or Landshark Boots with it.
-
2012-11-17, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Case B is correct. From the book:
Originally Posted by Magic of Incarnum
Curiously, the text describing the spinemeld warrior's meldshaping ability leaves out that clause. I rather suspect this is an accident, but by RAW the specific description overrides the general rules for meldshaping given on rule 20.Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
-
2012-11-20, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Out of the box? That's no fun. But you go to optimize it, you can get some pretty sweet numbers. See below for how to get 10 attacks
Try a Warforged Ex-Monk 1 / Totemist 10
2 flaws + 2 feat (Dragon Touched/unarmored body)
1) Jaws of Death (bite attack)
M1) Improved grapple
3) Multiattack
6) Bonus Essentia
9) Double Chakra (totem)
Bind Heart of Fire and Giralion Arms to totem (yay, double chakra feat): This gives you 4 claw attacks + #d4 fire damage to all natural attacks (where # is essentia invested)
Bind Sphinx Claws to Hands: full attack with all natural weapons on a charge
Shape Dragontail to feet: tail attack
Shape 2 others of your choice (I like Totem Avatar and Kruthick Claws, Heart and shoulders slot, respectively)
Tail (1)
Slam (1)
Bite (1)
Unarmed (2) / [Flurry = 3]
Claws (4)
---------
Total (9) / [10]
-
2012-11-20, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
My bad - I was thinking of Pathfinder
There, not only can the amulet carry special abilities, you can even replace the amulet's entire enhancement with them - which is especially handy for a Totemist since they can get all that enhancement back through essentia, and end up effectively packing up to +10 weapons.
Definitely go with 3.P if the option is available I say.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2012-11-21, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Spring, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
So, using a Thri-Kreen with Girallon Arms, Multiattack, Rapidstrike, and Improved Rapidstrike, and then taking a level of Monk for Flurry of Blows gets you up to something like 15 attacks.
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that that falls apart somewhere in the RAW.
-
2012-11-21, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
-
2012-11-21, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Check my sig for a couple of good guides on Incarnum. It will give you all the basics you need to get going for Meldshaping, but in general:
* You shape soulmelds at the beginning of the day, up to the allotment for you depending on your class and level. These have certain innate abilities, most of them have additional bonuses for investing essentia into them.
* You can also bind soulmelds at the beginning of the day, up to the allotment for you depending on class and level. You may only bind a soulmeld to the location it is shaped at, with the exception of the Totem chakra, which needs you to shape it elsewhere and bind it to Totem chakra.
* Bound soulmelds will block magic items in that location, shaped soulmelds don't.
* Bound and Shaped soulmelds may not be changed without 8 hours of rest.
* Essentia can be used to augment an effect of a soulmeld. You can shift around how much essentia is invested in which soulmeld as a Swift action. Essentia sent into feats, however, are stuck for the day.
* You may only shape ONE soulmeld to any given chakra point, unless you spend a feat to permit two.
I hope this helps you out.Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2012-11-21 at 11:38 AM.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
-
2012-11-21, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Spring, TX
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Last edited by RFLS; 2012-11-21 at 12:10 PM.
-
2012-11-21, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Gender
Re: First Time Totemist, Long Time Rule Misinterpreter
Wilder can work passably too, at least the educated wilder variant (otherwise just too few powers to make up for all the stuff you lose access to). Cleric is demi tolerable if you pick a race with a natural weapon or you are willing to dump a feat on improved unarmed strike, or dip a lvl or two monk.
My homebrew
Official spokesman of the totemist class for gestalt (and proud supporter of parenthetical asides (especially nested ones)). Author of a gestalt handbookSpoiler